Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[Hammer Of The Gods]

'Tough guys' is subjective, but every team in the country has some on their team, including ND. We just don't have that many right now. You need a team of them, a culture of toughness.

That's where i'm at with all of this. As a whole, We're not tough. Physically or mentally. period. Fire Longo.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I heard Eddie George bring up an interesting point that may or may not have merit. His explanation for ND falling on their face the 2nd half of the season had a lot to do w/ the injuries but also talked about the effect of travel had on the team. He likened it to when he was playing in the NFL and acknowledged that by the time they'd traveled South, then West & finally up North, the team was worn out from the travel/time zones/etc in addition to the actual game prep & playing.

I think it's a fair point and another reason to join a conference. Think about it, after losing a heartbreaker in Florida they used their bye week to prepare for the triple option. Then a week later they win a hard fought game vs Navy on the East Coast. Then they fly out west to Tempe and play an afternoon game in the heat. After that debacle, it's back home to cold, dreary South Bend to lose in OT to Northwestern and to lose another heartbreaker the following wk at home in the same cold, wet weather. Finally, they fly back out west to get annhilated by SCum where we all saw a shell of the team that started 6-0. Yes, injuries had to be the biggest impact but I thought George brought up a great point w/ all the cross country travel. There was just no consistency this year when it came to time zone & conditions. Factor in the hours of travel in between & that's a lot for us adults, much less 18-22 y/o who have a tough road to hoe in the classroom as well as the gridiron.

In a conference, ND can better control their scheduling. What would they have....9 ACC games? Most of those schools are in the eastern timezone. As far as the other three games, they could prioritize SCum, Navy & Stanford but if either team's schedule didn't allow for it....fuck it....schedule a MAC team. The world didn't end when OU/NEB, UT/TAMU, ND/scUM rivalries ended...it won't end if the SCum or Navy rivalries end either. Life goes on...Notre Dame is just always the last school to realize that.

 

[IRISH in MT]

YEP!!! Both of those stands happened 2 years ago.

For a Brian Kelly coached team.

On a Longo designed weight program. It's a miracle they didn't get blown into the back of the end zone.

The toughest guys on that defense were KLM, Teo, Motta, and Calabrese. ALL Weis recruits. KLM and Teo I consider to be "tough gentlemen". I prefer Motta and Calabrese backing me in an alley fight. That being said, I simply think we need some meaner players. But, guys like Suh are hard to keep out of trouble or sometimes hard to keep eligible. Guys like Lynch didn't mesh well in the locker room for a reason.

 

[Irish#1]

I heard Eddie George bring up an interesting point that may or may not have merit. His explanation for ND falling on their face the 2nd half of the season had a lot to do w/ the injuries but also talked about the effect of travel had on the team. He likened it to when he was playing in the NFL and acknowledged that by the time they'd traveled South, then West & finally up North, the team was worn out from the travel/time zones/etc in addition to the actual game prep & playing.

I think it's a fair point and another reason to join a conference. Think about it, after losing a heartbreaker in Florida they used their bye week to prepare for the triple option. Then a week later they win a hard fought game vs Navy on the East Coast. Then they fly out west to Tempe and play an afternoon game in the heat. After that debacle, it's back home to cold, dreary South Bend to lose in OT to Northwestern and to lose another heartbreaker the following wk at home in the same cold, wet weather. Finally, they fly back out west to get annhilated by SCum where we all saw a shell of the team that started 6-0. Yes, injuries had to be the biggest impact but I thought George brought up a great point w/ all the cross country travel. There was just no consistency this year when it came to time zone & conditions. Factor in the hours of travel in between & that's a lot for us adults, much less 18-22 y/o who have a tough road to hoe in the classroom as well as the gridiron.

In a conference, ND can better control their scheduling. What would they have....9 ACC games? Most of those schools are in the eastern timezone. As far as the other three games, they could prioritize SCum, Navy & Stanford but if either team's schedule didn't allow for it....fuck it....schedule a MAC team. The world didn't end when OU/NEB, UT/TAMU, ND/scUM rivalries ended...it won't end if the SCum or Navy rivalries end either. Life goes on...Notre Dame is just always the last school to realize that.

I think Eddie George may have a valid point.

 

[NDohio]

I think Eddie George may have a valid point.

Yes, me too. It is one of the reasons I have switched over to the "join a conference" side of the argument.

 

[IRISH in MT]

Yes, me too. It is one of the reasons I have switched over to the "join a conference" side of the argument.

I am torn on moving to a full conference schedule. It may be inevitable with the way the Playoff Committee values the Conf. Championship games. I do think the ACC is better for all of ND's other sports programs but for football, I preferred the B1G 10 for a football conference schedule. I think we have more rivalries with dUMb, MSU, Purdue, and NW than we do with ACC football teams (other than Miami). I think we need to keep Navy even though I hate that injury filled game every year. U$C is a must to keep on as well. MSU and Purdue were long standing rivalries as well.

13 Games:
6 ACC Conf. games (with hopefully Pitt and BC every year) + possible Championship game
5 Long Term Rivalry games: U$C, Navy, Purdue, MSU, Stanford
1 Texas or SEC game

 

[philipm31]

Seriously, we are going to blame it on travel now?

That might take a bit of a toll, but travel does not cause injuries or bad coaching decisions.

And the idea that we would only play six ACC games is a pipe dream. How many ACC games did FSU and MIA play? 8.

So you have to remove two more games if we fully join the ACC.

Which two would you remove?

Navy, USC and a TX/SEC game would be all that is left of our schedule.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I am torn on moving to a full conference schedule. It may be inevitable with the way the Playoff Committee values the Conf. Championship games. I do think the ACC is better for all of ND's other sports programs but for football, I preferred the B1G 10 for a football conference schedule. I think we have more rivalries with dUMb, MSU, Purdue, and NW than we do with ACC football teams (other than Miami). I think we need to keep Navy even though I hate that injury filled game every year. U$C is a must to keep on as well. MSU and Purdue were long standing rivalries as well.

13 Games:
6 ACC Conf. games (with hopefully Pitt and BC every year) + possible Championship game
5 Long Term Rivalry games: U$C, Navy, Purdue, MSU, Stanford
1 Texas or SEC game

To hell w/ the B1G. I'm all in on the ACC now after going back & forth. Look at all the love Sparty got for travelling out west to play Oregon. They ended up getting spanked (Yeah, I know it was close for about 3 qtrs) yet continued to get respect for scheduling them OOC. Meanwhile ND does that 3-4 times per season every year & crickets. ND needs to adapt...get out of their own way. Don't want to be less stringent on who you admit? Fine, but at least build a feasible schedule that is in the best interest of the players & coaches. Even BK pointed out the late nights that all the prime time games led to this year. I assume most of us on this board do our fair share of business travel. Don't know about you, but it sucks. I can't imagine being 18-22 yo w/ the academic workload that comes w/ ND & then the practice & game prep before flying across a few timezones to play in another climate; then jump on a plane that arrives back in South Bend at 3 in the morning where the following week will incl practice & a game at cold & wet South Bend. What other Power 5 team has to battle those rigors?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Seriously, we are going to blame it on travel now?

That might take a bit of a toll, but travel does not cause injuries or bad coaching decisions.

And the idea that we would only play six ACC games is a pipe dream. How many ACC games did FSU and MIA play? 8.

So you have to remove two more games if we fully join the ACC.

Which two would you remove?

Navy, USC and a TX/SEC game would be all that is left of our schedule.

No, I'm not blaming travel. The injuries & suspensions were the main issue but I think their schedule could be a hellva lot more conducive to winning if they were at another school. WTH schedules a gauntlet that has them flying cross coutnry every other week. And I'm not the expert...this came from Heisman Trophy winning All-Pro RB Eddie George. He brought it up and he's far from an ND homer. If they want to keep settling for 7-8 wins every year, keep doing what they're doing. Most programs put their team in the most favorable position to win...except ND. And if Navy & SC has to be interrupted so be it. It's a two way street...why does ND always have to bow down and alter their schedule for the other school. The world won't end (and most CFB fans won't give a crap) if ND doesn't play Navy &/or SC every now & then.

 

[philipm31]

Navy saved the school from closing. That rivalry will NEVER end. Period.

SC is our most prominent rival and I doubt we give up our one chance to travel to CA every other year, either. Especially after the brouhaha after the end of the Michigan series.

And Navy bows to US. They play us wherever we say, whether it is Ireland, NY or anywhere else.

 

[irishtrain]

No, I'm not blaming travel. The injuries & suspensions were the main issue but I think their schedule could be a hellva lot more conducive to winning if they were at another school. WTH schedules a gauntlet that has them flying cross coutnry every other week. And I'm not the expert...this came from Heisman Trophy winning All-Pro RB Eddie George. He brought it up and he's far from an ND homer. If they want to keep settling for 7-8 wins every year, keep doing what they're doing. Most programs put their team in the most favorable position to win...except ND. And if Navy & SC has to be interrupted so be it. It's a two way street...why does ND always have to bow down and alter their schedule for the other school. The world won't end (and most CFB fans won't give a crap) if ND doesn't play Navy &/or SC every now & then.

I've been saying this for years the way the schedule plays out its the toughest in the country. All your points are what I've saying for years then throw in the mid season super bowl for whoever we're playing and you have the toughest schedule in the country-period. The media has no idea what is going on-they just have their noses up the %$##$ of southern schools. Now the idea will be given more credence when LSU hammers a very crippled Notre Dame team. More fuel for the idiots in the media (FineBaum) etc. This stuff is really getting old. By the way the average cost of a national championship ticket is $1700-need I say more about college football as an industry.

 

[Circa]

Maybe somebody has said this, but do ya think the committee may have put more pressure on the Big12 and a legend like us in order to suffocate? I say just play It out, these damn committees always try to take the old out of everything.

 

[pumpdog20]

I don't get the ACC love, it's a shitty conference, and I much prefer the B1G.

I do understand the regional land lock concerns, but keeping the SC rivalry and a yearly southern school would help.

 

[koonja]

I don't get the ACC love, it's a shitty conference, and I much prefer the B1G.

I do understand the regional land lock concerns, but keeping the SC rivalry and a yearly southern school would help.

With how tough our OOC games would be, I pray we land in a shitty conference.

They have FSU, Clemson, and VT. Ask OSU how tough they are, lol.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I don't get the ACC love, it's a shitty conference, and I much prefer the B1G.

I do understand the regional land lock concerns, but keeping the SC rivalry and a yearly southern school would help.

I think they are similar difficulty. They both present about 3 huge games, and then a few more respectable challengers. Teams like Syracuse have played us close and they are ACC bottom feeders.

 

[BMT]

YES

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Give me the big ten sprinkled with some tin cans. USC and even though I hate it Navy as the opener every year. rotate Stanford, Boston college, Pitt, etc for the shamrock series

 

[pumpdog20]

I think they are similar difficulty. They both present about 3 huge games, and then a few more respectable challengers. Teams like Syracuse have played us close and they are ACC bottom feeders.

Yeah, well being in the B1G would allow for the occasion away game to Iowa City, thus pleasing me. And that's what it's all about.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Navy saved the school from closing. That rivalry will NEVER end. Period.

SC is our most prominent rival and I doubt we give up our one chance to travel to CA every other year, either. Especially after the brouhaha after the end of the Michigan series.

And Navy bows to US. They play us wherever we say, whether it is Ireland, NY or anywhere else.

If your statements are 100% accurate, then ND should just slot Navy in as the opener EVERY single season. Yes, we all know the story about how Navy saved ND. Times have changed. Cut them an 8 figure check, sponsor a scholarship for them & say we will forever be in debted to their service b/c they're joining the AAC next season and I doubt your statement about playing ND when & where ND dictates remains true when they're tasked w/ a conference slate. I'm tired of all these rivalries being one sided against ND.

As far as SCum? We can miss a season or two out in CA. WTH has it done for us lately anyway? Looks like ND struck out on the Cali recruiting this year. Most of the Cali signees end up at UCLA or some other factory when they flake out or get kicked out. I thought Redfield was a coup, but the staff seems to have given up on him as a bust. To hell with Cali.

The brouhaha over the scUM series? That came from scUM fans & ND haters. Did the world come to an end when Nebraska & OU ended their rivalry? What about UT/TAMU?

Fan are naive if they don't think there's a method to the madness of scheduling. Look at the SEC. They rarely have to travel outside of the south. Their BIG OOC games are at a neutral site in nearby Dallas or Atlanta. Then in the heat of the Playoff race, they get a glorified BYE in the month of November when they play an FCS school. Great opportuntity to rest starters & heal injuries before the run up to the playoffs. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I don't get the ACC love, it's a shitty conference, and I much prefer the B1G.

I do understand the regional land lock concerns, but keeping the SC rivalry and a yearly southern school would help.

Look up why Bobby Bowden said he wanted FSU to join the ACC back in the day. It wasn't for the stiff competition. It was for a more navigable conference slate knowing they'd still have some OOC heavyweights to contend with. It's not PC to admit it, but Bowden knew that joining a conference like the SEC would almost guarantee at least one loss every season.

ND is not in a position to label a Power Five conference as "shitty" as long as it loses to bottom feeders and also-rans like Pitt, Louisville and Northwestern.

 

[IRISH in MT]

With how tough our OOC games would be, I pray we land in a shitty conference.

They have FSU, Clemson, and VT. Ask OSU how tough they are, lol.

I agree, if joining a conference is what it takes to make the playoff then I want the easiest conference to play in. I want the best odds to make the playoffs each year. Some will say playing weaker competition will hurt us. BUT, I say the best record, who is healthiest and who has winning momentum when the playoffs start is most important. Even if that means playing in a weaker conference.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I agree, if joining a conference is what it takes to make the playoff then I want the easiest conference to play in. I want the best odds to make the playoffs each year. Some will say playing weaker competition will hurt us. BUT, I say the best record, who is healthiest and who has winning momentum when the playoffs start is most important. Even if that means playing in a weaker conference.

Exactly. Provided it's a Power 5 conference, an undefeated (or even 1 loss) ND is a virtual lock to be in the Playoff. ND doesn't have to win the SEC to get in so if the ACC provides a few more easy wins sign me up. The problem is that ND has yet to prove they can handle the "easy wins" as they typically play down to their competition. But...if they can start TCB vs the infererior teams, they can gain two advantages that most schools enjoy: resting starters & getting meaningful reps for the 2nd/3rd teamers. That obviously would've paid dividends this season.

 

[IRISH in MT]

Exactly. Provided it's a Power 5 conference, an undefeated (or even 1 loss) ND is a virtual lock to be in the Playoff. ND doesn't have to win the SEC to get in so if the ACC provides a few more easy wins sign me up. The problem is that ND has yet to prove they can handle the "easy wins" as they typically play down to their competition. But...if they can start TCB vs the infererior teams, they can gain two advantages that most schools enjoy: resting starters & getting meaningful reps for the 2nd/3rd teamers. That obviously would've paid dividends this season.

Power 5 or bust. I think right now, the B1G is the weakest + we have long time foes in that conference already (MSU, Purdue, dUMb, NW, Penn St) so that is why I like it for football. I do like the other sports in the ACC. Especially the basketball programs. A 1 loss ND conference champion team would make the playoff 99% of the time. I am for that. That leaves our 1 blunder game each year like you mentioned.

 

[philipm31]

If your statements are 100% accurate, then ND should just slot Navy in as the opener EVERY single season. Yes, we all know the story about how Navy saved ND. Times have changed. Cut them an 8 figure check, sponsor a scholarship for them & say we will forever be in debted to their service b/c they're joining the AAC next season and I doubt your statement about playing ND when & where ND dictates remains true when they're tasked w/ a conference slate. I'm tired of all these rivalries being one sided against ND.

As far as SCum? We can miss a season or two out in CA. WTH has it done for us lately anyway? Looks like ND struck out on the Cali recruiting this year. Most of the Cali signees end up at UCLA or some other factory when they flake out or get kicked out. I thought Redfield was a coup, but the staff seems to have given up on him as a bust. To hell with Cali.

The brouhaha over the scUM series? That came from scUM fans & ND haters. Did the world come to an end when Nebraska & OU ended their rivalry? What about UT/TAMU?

Fan are naive if they don't think there's a method to the madness of scheduling. Look at the SEC. They rarely have to travel outside of the south. Their BIG OOC games are at a neutral site in nearby Dallas or Atlanta. Then in the heat of the Playoff race, they get a glorified BYE in the month of November when they play an FCS school. Great opportuntity to rest starters & heal injuries before the run up to the playoffs. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

IF my statements are 100 percent accurate?

What part of saving the school from CLOSING forever is not accurate?

1) Ending the Navy game is a non-starter, period. Irish started vs Navy in Ireland in '12, so I can see us trying to do that.
Also, I did not get upset over the UM series ending, for now. But the athletic department has plainly stated repeatedly that Navy will always be on the schedule. Cutting them a check is a slap in the face. This is not like Michigan, which has ended multiple times. MICH would have LOVED for ND to be driven into nonexistence. You cannot ever put a price tag on someone or something saving your life. Move on already.

2) So, you just want to give up on CA? Seriously?? Why not the entire West Coast? But yeah, let's give up on one of the biggest hotbeds of recruits just because most of them go to USC and UCLA....which has generally been the case for decades, if not forever.

SMH.

3) If we join the ACC, then we can still play eight conference games, Navy, USC and another game. Either a SS game or something else. We'd likely not have to schedule SEC teams if we did that, so I guess we keep the SS game.

But honestly, I think the SS games have been pretty meh.

4) IF JH takes the MICH job, he and Meyer will lock down the MidWest. And you think they won't be recruiting in CA, as well?

5) Top ACC recruits generally go to CLEM and FSU right now. I mean, if we are going to play your Chicken Little line of thinking to its logical conclusion, then ND should just join the Ivy and be done with it.

Sheesh.

 

[kmoose]

If your statements are 100% accurate, then ND should just slot Navy in as the opener EVERY single season. Yes, we all know the story about how Navy saved ND. Times have changed. Cut them an 8 figure check, sponsor a scholarship for them & say we will forever be in debted to their service b/c they're joining the AAC next season and I doubt your statement about playing ND when & where ND dictates remains true when they're tasked w/ a conference slate. I'm tired of all these rivalries being one sided against ND.

The bolded part alone demonstrates a pretty big ignorance of the US Naval Academy. The Academy does not offer scholarships.

As far as SCum? We can miss a season or two out in CA. WTH has it done for us lately anyway? Looks like ND struck out on the Cali recruiting this year. Most of the Cali signees end up at UCLA or some other factory when they flake out or get kicked out. I thought Redfield was a coup, but the staff seems to have given up on him as a bust. To hell with Cali.

You mean other than Jimmy Clausen, Cierre Wood, and Joe Schmidt?

The brouhaha over the scUM series? That came from scUM fans & ND haters. Did the world come to an end when Nebraska & OU ended their rivalry? What about UT/TAMU?

I know at least 2 dozen ND alumni who would probably mortgage their houses and donate the money, if it meant that ND would play Michigan for the next 25 years.

Fan are naive if they don't think there's a method to the madness of scheduling. Look at the SEC. They rarely have to travel outside of the south. Their BIG OOC games are at a neutral site in nearby Dallas or Atlanta. Then in the heat of the Playoff race, they get a glorified BYE in the month of November when they play an FCS school. Great opportuntity to rest starters & heal injuries before the run up to the playoffs. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

And you are naïve, if you think that making a case for Notre Dame becoming like everyone else is going to change any minds around here.

 

[Irish#1]

Seriously, we are going to blame it on travel now?

That might take a bit of a toll, but travel does not cause injuries or bad coaching decisions.

And the idea that we would only play six ACC games is a pipe dream. How many ACC games did FSU and MIA play? 8.

So you have to remove two more games if we fully join the ACC.

Which two would you remove?

Navy, USC and a TX/SEC game would be all that is left of our schedule.

I simply said I think he may have a valid point. I don't travel a lot for business, but I do some. I can tell you it does wear on you mentally and physically especially when the trips are long. It's simply a component that can be taken into consideration.

 

[kmoose]

I simply said I think he may have a valid point. I don't travel a lot for business, but I do some. I can tell you it does wear on you mentally and physically especially when the trips are long. It's simply a component that can be taken into consideration.

I travel a fair amount, myself, and I know what you mean. But I doubt that it really is an appreciable difference, to an athlete with the type of elite conditioning that NCAA DI-A players have.

 

[MNIrishman]

I travel a fair amount, myself, and I know what you mean. But I doubt that it really is an appreciable difference, to an athlete with the type of elite conditioning that NCAA DI-A players have.

Back in the day our players took trains to New York and California. Maybe we should go back to that?

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I travel a fair amount, myself, and I know what you mean. But I doubt that it really is an appreciable difference, to an athlete with the type of elite conditioning that NCAA DI-A players have.

Boom! you hit the nail on the head! Longo must go.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

You mean other than Jimmy Clausen, Cierre Wood, and Joe Schmidt?



I know at least 2 dozen ND alumni who would probably mortgage their houses and donate the money, if it meant that ND would play Michigan for the next 25 years.



And you are naïve, if you think that making a case for Notre Dame becoming like everyone else is going to change any minds around here.

The entire state of Cali & the best you could come up w/ is a QB that left ND five years ago, a solid RB & a walk-on who was going to choose ND regardless based on his family connections? Off the top of my head I can list twice as many names from that state who have flipped or transferred in the last five years. BTW, I didn't say ignore the state, just don't act like it's ND's saving grace...it's not.

I didn't make a case for ND becoming like eveyone else...I pointed out moving into the 21st century where ND is far from the program it was pre-1994 could go a long way in evening the playing field. Just some tweaks to the scheduling that helps rather than hinders ND going undefeated or at least competing for a big bowl.

Why does ND have to bow down to SCum? Don't understand the ass kissing of that school. ND made SCum when Rockne agreed to play them. Now they refuse to play in South Bend in November b/c it's bit chilly? I say join the ACC and try to scheudle SCum & Navy when ND's schedule allows...not the other way around. If SCum & Navy schedule don't allow playing ND a particular year, so be it....it's not the end of the world and they can play the following year when the schedule allows. Navy is joining the AAC next year so their scheduling is going to have some prior commitments going forward w/ their new conference members plus Notre Dame will rank third behind AFA & Army for teams they must schedule every year.

I'm hoping your comment on your alum buddies mortgaging their houses was a throw away statement like mine was about offering a scholly to Navy b/c that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you were serious, then I'd ask them why they didn't do just that the first time ND/scUM series took an extended hiatus? Michigan? Please, they've done less for ND than any school in America. They were the main reason ND never joined the B1G in the first place...when ND would've jumped at the chance. That institution did every thing it could to hold ND down. It's not like ND will never play scUM again. I bet ND plays scUM sooner than they did when they restarted the last series. Muck Fichigan