Not a Top Ten Team?

[leppycole]

Did ND not Slap Tennessee around last year? Just a thought

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I'm all for pounding USC, but they have had some injury issues. That's not an excuse, that's just the facts. Dwayne Jarrett and another wide reciver being out(and now Steve Smith) and playing their 4th string fullback have had an influence. They've had some defensive injuries too. I still think ND wins, but it is going to be another slobberknocker like last year. Let's hope Moody is too young to have the presence of mind to shove his quarterback around the pile until he gets in the endzone.

As far as rankings go, #1 and #2 matter most. After that, ND just needs to be in the Top 6 to get their automatic bid to a BCS game. #6, #5, #4, #3...all the same. Actually, doesn't anything in the Top 12 of the BCS make ND eligible? Whether ND deserves it or not, if they are eligible, someone will most likely take them. NOt definitely, but most likely. Not just because ND travels, but they bring the ratings and the spotlight for better or worse.

 

[jiggafini19]

Did ND not Slap Tennessee around last year? Just a thought

Yep. Last year.

David Cutcliffe is there now. Ole Miss NEVER should have fired him.

This Vol squad is a tad different than last year's squad.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Yeah, what was Ole Miss thinking. Cutcliffe had a good record there too. Amazing the difference a coach can make.

 

[FleaFlicker]

For as much as people say ND gets boosted in the polls because of the "ND factor", look at the "predicted" BCS polls on ESPN. They have ND at #6. That is higher than almost anyone else has put them.

And that is from a fricking computer (although I realize other polls play a role).

 

[FleaFlicker]

That's the drawback of having your own tv network. ND can be seen every single week, whether it's USC, scUM, or Navy. If ND doesn't play a perfect game, their flaws are out there for everyone to see. And personally, despite being a homer domer, I see plenty of flaws in this years team. I don't think ND RIGHT NOW is any better than the 9th or 10th best team in the country.

I think in most years I would agree with you, ND is probably an 11 or 12 team at the moment. But THIS year, everyone is beatable, OSU is about the only team that hasn't had periods where they looked really vulnerable. UM has played pretty solid as well. But everyone else? There are still undefeated teams that are barely undefeated (Florida).

If we sit at 9th or 10th this year, who is better than us?

I'll tell you who I honestly think is better at us at this point...

1. OSU
2. UM
3. Florida
4. Louisville
5. USC
6. Texas

I can't say anyone else is necessarily better. We are about tied with Iowa I would say. Although our first 5 games were a bit tougher than theirs. I think they could have easily lost to GT.

 

[isotopes]

Scenario: Michigan, without Manningham loses to PSU this weekend. They beat OSU though. ND wins out where does that put us? I know that this is virtually a waste of time because it's hypothetical and all but I'j just curious to what would happen to our status.

I also understand that the margin of victories matter in each game so feel free to explain in any such instance.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Did ND not Slap Tennessee around last year? Just a thought

Yeah...a really crappy Tennessee.

We also beat UM last year too... I would rather not talk about how that went this year.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

As far as rankings go, #1 and #2 matter most. After that, ND just needs to be in the Top 6 to get their automatic bid to a BCS game. #6, #5, #4, #3...all the same. Actually, doesn't anything in the Top 12 of the BCS make ND eligible?

The rules are different this year. Top8 gets us in automatically.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I wish I saw a scenerio where ND could get in, but I don't think there is.

I think USC loses before ND comes to town(either to Cal or Oregon or both). I think UF loses 1 game(either Auburn or the SEC championship). I think there might be a 1 loss team in the NC because WVU & Louisville's schedule is so weak they might get left out.

I think Michigan v Texas is the NC game. I really like Michigan over tOSU.

 

[grantland]

Greg Little probably cares more about academics than Polls. Given that he has a very tough decision between two highly ranked schools.

And, on a crappy program like UNC's football squad he WILL play every year AND get all kinds of attention.

Greg Little may be more concerned about academics than polls, however, I do not think that is the factor he is using to decide. It may be arguable that Greg could obtain as good an education at UNC as he could at ND. I would argue against it based on my repeated statements that ND cares more about her student athletes (and her students who are not athletes) than any big time football school evidenced primarily by the grad rate but by many other factors including the religous affiliation, the smallness of the school, etc., etc.

Some say he wants a Sports Management Degree, a major ND does not offer. Gimme a break, an ND management degree will carry at least as much weight as a Sports Management Degree from UNC.

No, I think Greg Little is stuck because (like so many of our recruits) he knows that the right choice is Notre Dame but his heart is pulling him towards his childhood favorite and his local school. That is what scares me, will he listen to his heart or his head?

I am sure ND makes its logical arguments based on the great education, great team on the rise, exposure, etc, etc. However, how do we win his heart (and Chris Donald's and Ryan Miller's and so many others like them.)?

We have to sell how important it is to be from ND. The other day someone down here asked me where I went to school. I told her and she said "how refreshing that you did not go to Georgia." Dusty Zeigler (a guy from Effingham County down here - they do not send many people to ND) spoke the other night on how proud he was to be from ND and how it distinguishes him and the great things (out of the class room) he learned that he would not have learned at UGA. It goes on and on.

In the end UNC is the same as UGA as UVA as UM as UofI and on and on.

ND is so much more.

 

[Indydomer]

Any degree from Nd is better than a degree from anywhere else in my opinion. I don't care what program you get your degree from, when you say that you got it from ND it gets peoples attention immediately.

 

[isotopes]

I dunno about vince as heisman, you put an un experienced qb into a big game and he still played well all considering. You take away that fumble inside the 5 and its a totally different game and you boost his confidence a lot more. I'd say if anything Colt being green is what killed em, not the fact that Vince wasn't there

 

[knute]

Any degree from Nd is better than a degree from anywhere else in my opinion.

Seeing the world through blue and gold colored glasses...?

 

[isotopes]

I don't know that it is the "best!" but whats great about it is it is a very good education and it is coupled with a wide network that loves to advance fellow ND alums

 

[Bubba]

I think in most years I would agree with you, ND is probably an 11 or 12 team at the moment. But THIS year, everyone is beatable, OSU is about the only team that hasn't had periods where they looked really vulnerable. UM has played pretty solid as well. But everyone else? There are still undefeated teams that are barely undefeated (Florida).

If we sit at 9th or 10th this year, who is better than us?

I'll tell you who I honestly think is better at us at this point...

1. OSU
2. UM
3. Florida
4. Louisville
5. USC
6. Texas

I can't say anyone else is necessarily better. We are about tied with Iowa I would say. Although our first 5 games were a bit tougher than theirs. I think they could have easily lost to GT.

JMHO, but you could remove Louisville and USC from that list. The problem is, you could probably put Tennessee and Cal on in their place. Louisville beat a very bad Miami team, not really that impressive. USC has let teams play with them closely who shouldn't have. I personally think that UM may be the best in the country. The loss of Manningham is going to hurt, but I think they beat PSU this week. I also think they will beat tOSU. ND is a better team than they showed against UM. They are learning and growing together as a team. The USC game will obviously determine the outcome of this season, but they had better not look ahead to that game. UCLA, AF or Navy could surprise them. You probably all think I'm crazy, but it's just a matter of time before Navy finally pulls one out. They will be up for ND and if they're looking ahead they will at least get a scare.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Any degree from Nd is better than a degree from anywhere else in my opinion. I don't care what program you get your degree from, when you say that you got it from ND it gets peoples attention immediately.

I would not go that far. I *AM* an ND grad...but there are more than a couple of places which get more attention when a college grad is looking to get into a job or academic graduate program. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Columbia, Univ of Chicago, Cornell all come to mind.

ND is a special place that is 100% focused on it's undergraduates needs and success. It does have a more "personal" atmosphere than some of the schools above...and that is something you cannot get most anywhere.

For Little I would hope he would consider the success of the football team AND THE TREMENDOUS ARRAY OF COACHES TO TEAM HIM. That should be the tipping point.

Academically though, the schools are similar.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't know that it is the "best!" but whats great about it is it is a very good education and it is coupled with a wide network that loves to advance fellow ND alums

...AND ND cares more about its undergrads than grads. Most of the "TOP" schools can't say that. And, in fact, it hurts ND in the rankings sometimes, since their grad programs are so limited.

ND is truly a special place.

 

[grantland]

I would not go that far. I *AM* an ND grad...but there are more than a couple of places which get more attention when a college grad is looking to get into a job or academic graduate program. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Columbia, Univ of Chicago, Cornell all come to mind.

ND is a special place that is 100% focused on it's undergraduates needs and success. It does have a more "personal" atmosphere than some of the schools above...and that is something you cannot get most anywhere.

For Little I would hope he would consider the success of the football team AND THE TREMENDOUS ARRAY OF COACHES TO TEAM HIM. That should be the tipping point.

Academically though, the schools are similar.

YES. Very few places (I say NONE) offer the combination of high level football (in fact it is becoming high level in all sports), prestige both academic and otherwise and care for its students. I guess there would never be a poll to capture this, but I would have to believe ND would get all the 1st place votes.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

YES. Very few places (I say NONE) offer the combination of high level football (in fact it is becoming high level in all sports), prestige both academic and otherwise and care for its students. I guess there would never be a poll to capture this, but I would have to believe ND would get all the 1st place votes.

Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up.

There are at least 25-30 schools that are as good as, or better than ND...but that's still top tier.
There are another 10 schools that are great football schools.
There are probably anothre 10-20 that care tons about their students.

None truly has all 3...except ND.

 

[FleaFlicker]

Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up.

There are at least 25-30 schools that are as good as, or better than ND...but that's still top tier.
There are another 10 schools that are great football schools.
There are probably anothre 10-20 that care tons about their students.

None truly has all 3...except ND.

I hate to be the one to point it out. But you guys are sounding pretty elitist.

ND is obviously a great school, no one can deny that. But to assume that "There are probably another 10-20 that care about their students..." is a pretty presumptious thing to throw out there.

Some of those schools have better individual programs than ND in many things. I agree that ND has a nice combo of academics, etc... But Weis basically said that kids that come to ND want to go to the NFL, when he got the job, he made the connection that he would like to prepare them for that.

So obviously it isn't like every ND student/grad is a golden child. And every other school has villians. Let's not live in our bubble.

 

[jiggafini19]

We've had this discussion several times.

All schools are good schools, for the most part, if you truly utilize the academic opportunities they provide.

 

[grantland]

I don't know if we are elitist, we are just better that all the other schools.

Seriously, the evidence I use to point to the fact that ND cares about its students is the graduation rate. Very few (any?) high profile football programs have such success in getting its students to graduate.

I think that is what distinguishes us from EVERY other school. Some have great athletics (actually I am really talking about football because if you talk about all athtletics you have to add Duke and Stanford, etc.) but not so great a reputation in academia, and vice versa.

Some have both (read Michigan, ugh!). But very few combine both AND insure the students obtain their degree. I agree that a great education can be found in many places. However, ND is truely unique in combining all three of the above factors.

Granted, ND Admissions does a good job evaluating who might be able to succeed. However, not everyone who attends is a perfect SAT and a 4.0. I think they attempt to evaluate character as well and provide the help needed to succeed.

Also granted, ND is not the place for everyone. For instance Marvin Austin said he wants to be in a college with more action/night life. ND is not the place for him. He needs to be at Southern Cal or Miami. Many kids would be bored at ND. Many kids would not be able to stand the fish bowl environment at ND.

However, for the person who wants the above characteristics as well as a "homey" (for lack of a better word) environment, there is none better.

 

[FleaFlicker]

I don't know if we are elitist, we are just better that all the other schools.

Seriously, the evidence I use to point to the fact that ND cares about its students is the graduation rate. Very few (any?) high profile football programs have such success in getting its students to graduate.

I think that is what distinguishes us from EVERY other school. Some have great athletics (actually I am really talking about football because if you talk about all athtletics you have to add Duke and Stanford, etc.) but not so great a reputation in academia, and vice versa.

Some have both (read Michigan, ugh!). But very few combine both AND insure the students obtain their degree. I agree that a great education can be found in many places. However, ND is truely unique in combining all three of the above factors.

Granted, ND Admissions does a good job evaluating who might be able to succeed. However, not everyone who attends is a perfect SAT and a 4.0. I think they attempt to evaluate character as well and provide the help needed to succeed.

Also granted, ND is not the place for everyone. For instance Marvin Austin said he wants to be in a college with more action/night life. ND is not the place for him. He needs to be at Southern Cal or Miami. Many kids would be bored at ND. Many kids would not be able to stand the fish bowl environment at ND.

However, for the person who wants the above characteristics as well as a "homey" (for lack of a better word) environment, there is none better.

Fair enough. I obviously love ND. My dad/uncle/aunt went there. My grandparents live in SB. My sister goes there now. I didn't get in, which is fine. But when I knew quite a few people at ND when I went to school in Ohio. And I have to admit that the majority of them gloated about it as much as they could.

ND has a great college football tradition. But I think it is important to remember that ND could honestly be any school. Any Catholic University especially. Yes, they care about their students.

But don't think they aren't recruiting a guy that is a 5 star prospect with a 3.0 GPA over a guy that is a 3 star with a 4.0. They have higher standards. Which means two things, it is partially tougher to recruit because you can't just take anyone that can read a book. And it is positive in that you can advertise how much a degree from ND is worth.

The problem is, most upper-echelon guys aren't generally going to college thinking, "I want to play football to get a free education." They are thinking, "I want to go pro."

In a system like that, Charlie has to cater towards that attitude, which he is doing. I think he has done a great job of trying to keep everyone focused, he obviously knows how ND handles their sports...

Anyway, I guess it just feels a lot better when ND alums/players/coaches/media don't just play the "graduation rate" card everytime ND doesn't do so well at football.

It seems to be everywhere this year, especially after the UM loss, I saw tons of people quoting that. If you are on a board discussing the best law programs, feel free to throw that out there. Otherwise, let's just be humble about a great school academically, which is not being tested by other school's academic programs, but by their football programs.

SAT scores don't count as points in a football game. If the "higher moral ground" is the only thing we can hang over our heads, it generally means we got beat.

With the exception of MSU, they are just downright lousy at FB, academics, and honor

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I hate to be the one to point it out. But you guys are sounding pretty elitist.

ND is obviously a great school, no one can deny that. But to assume that "There are probably another 10-20 that care about their students..." is a pretty presumptious thing to throw out there.

Actually, it was care TONS. Which is a key differentiator. Most Public schools don't care TONS. That is NOT their job generally. Places like Harvard, BC, ND, Yale, Princetion, etc, care TONS about their students. At least compared to places like Michigan...where you can get an elitel education (for sure) but you are one of tens of thousands. Private schools are simply different.

Furthermore, I am focsussing on DivI programs...and that filters down the results a great deal.

My undergrad was rated in the top6 for teaching a few years back...and is in many ways more "elite" than Notre Dame...and I would argue cares as much if not more than ND about it's students. But it is not DivI-A...so I would not compare it to ND in these discussions.

 

[proudndfan]

Tennessee deserves to be ahead of ND, their loss was by one point, and they have more impressive wins than ND has

 

[tedwick]

actually, you'd be suprised at the lack of caring the top tier ivys have for their undergraduates. the knock on harvard, at least when i was looking, was that it really just cared about graduate work and that undergrads were just a side note.

if i had it my way, it would be FL, OSU, UM, USC, AU, TN, ND... i think.

 

[isotopes]

They also played a pretty good game against Air Force... and their win over Georgia, man I'm glad they were able to pull of what Colorado couldn't....

 

[jiggafini19]

They might be elitist, but I wouldn't take their student loans after they graduate.

I've got two degrees on my wall and I'm not anywhere close to the debt some of my high school buddies are that went to ND. Hell, one of them told me he'd give me his degree to hang on the wall for 6 months if I paid 6 months worth of his loans.

 

[grantland]

They might be elitist, but I wouldn't take their student loans after they graduate.

I've got two degrees on my wall and I'm not anywhere close to the debt some of my high school buddies are that went to ND. Hell, one of them told me he'd give me his degree to hang on the wall for 6 months if I paid 6 months worth of his loans.

Touche'.

However, I was trying to make an argument about why a football recruit would choose ND over Hometown U. They all go to school for free.

Did you take your buddy up on it?