Option football...Why don't more teams run it?

[solo]

And I'm not talking about the popular spread option. I mean the true triple option that is run by the service academies.

When we line up to play Navy or Air Force, you always hear everyone making such a bug deal out of this offense. You hear comments like "It's an offense if you don't see it regularly it can beat you". It also seems to allow teams to do more with less talent.

So why don't the big time programs run it? It is certainly no riskier than these pass base offenses. If you run an offense that is reliant upon the pass and you have a bad QB, watch out (see Miami of this year for a good example).

Just curious why the option has gone the way of the dinosaur. I liked it when Holtz ran it. I also think that Nebraska ran it very well for many, many years.

 

[scooper]

In a world without the NFL, I think it could work more at the big college level. Defenses in the NFL are too fast and too smart to run the option against. So skill position players in college don't want to cut their teeth with the option. Sure, there are exceptions such as Tomlinson, but the bottom line is option hurts nfl aspirations. So it is only natural that it also hurts recruiting.

Nebraska was the last major team to dominate with it, but near the end, that offense became a tougher sell to big time recruits. At least in a spread option offense, there is more of a traditional passing game. But good luck getting a touted QB to play in a traditional bone-based option attack.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

And I'm not talking about the popular spread option. I mean the true triple option that is run by the service academies.

When we line up to play Navy or Air Force, you always hear everyone making such a bug deal out of this offense. You hear comments like "It's an offense if you don't see it regularly it can beat you". It also seems to allow teams to do more with less talent.

So why don't the big time programs run it? It is certainly no riskier than these pass base offenses. If you run an offense that is reliant upon the pass and you have a bad QB, watch out (see Miami of this year for a good example).

Just curious why the option has gone the way of the dinosaur. I liked it when Holtz ran it. I also think that Nebraska ran it very well for many, many years.

The option is a gimmick and cannot be run successfully against a disciplined team anymore.

Holtz tried using it during his brief stint in the NFL *snicker*

The option is something you run when you have a mobile QB and you don't have the talent to send 3 WRs out.

It's a gimmick and nothing more.

Think back to Nebraska vs Miami. Nebraska was at the top of its game. Miami's D spent time working man-for-man coverage. Once they perfected that, its over.

Just pick a man and follow him. Game over.

 

[Indydomer]

I think it would be awesome if someone would. I was talking to my buddy about that the other day Could you imagine if a team with USC or Texas's talent would run the wishbone. I still think it would be unstoppable.

 

[bmf175]

A huge reason is the turnover possibility. The QB pitching backwards to a moving TB while getting hit is a good chance for a fumble, remember PSU and Tommy Z getting his TD.

Another is injury to the QB is higher.

I think MSU runs it pretty well. Remember the 4 and 1 conversion in the final minutes before the last interception. I think in that situation the DE should have crashed down on Stanton, he was obviously going to keep it needing only 1 yard as oppossed to pitching it 3 yards back.

I think offenses now days are oriented for the short pass and taking the deep when it is there.
I think the Option offense can still be very effective in college football, but I would like to see a statistic for the number of turnovers a option Team has compared to a offense that runs a spread or west coast offense.

Edit
Yet maybe another reason.
We heard the announcers talking about MSU having to start to throw the ball again once they had been running it for the last 2 quarters. I agree it is hard to shift from running to throwing due to being behind in the fourth quarter.
An option team that is losing in the fourth, relies on the option too much and having to throw, which is not their strentgh, will not produce the needed results.
Option takes a lot of time of the clock, so catching up in points in the 4th quarter is going to be pretty difficult.

 

[TexasDomer]

It's hard to recruit talent looking for the NFL with a pure option style attack.

It also requires very very disciplined line play and a "true" fullback. This is one reason why the service academies have run in in the past (AFA still does, I think).

Finally, the speed at linebacker is much better now, and fast linebacker play can negate the effectiveness of fullback dives and the pitch plays on the edge.

It's main appeal now is that it is unusual and defenses don't see it very often, so it's harder to prepare for on one week notice.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I think it would be awesome if someone would. I was talking to my buddy about that the other day Could you imagine if a team with USC or Texas's talent would run the wishbone. I still think it would be unstoppable.

If USC used it, they would get killed. It's a gimmick against unprepared teams...that's all.

Let's be honest all the TOP teams have stopped using it pretty much altogether. It does not get used in the NFL either.

Why is that?

Because its not effective like the offenses we see today. If it were as good as what we see today, it would be used.

It's high risk, low reward...and terribly easy to defend.

 

[irishtexan]

I was an option quarterback in high school. I went to a catholic school and we ran the wishbone. We dominated for several years until my old coach retired. He always had a saying, "The wishbone is the easiest to defend against, but the hardest to stop". I find this true because of the success rate we had with it. Psychologically and physically it beats opponents down. Every play they know they are going to get smacked in the mouth. Probably the most succesful play we ever had though was the play action pass. It always worked. When ND isnt playing I watch every Navy game on CSTV. Their offense runs for about 300 yards a game. That is incredulous. Now given they dont play any big time schools very often, but I have to beleive that the option is still a very potent offense with the right tools.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I was an option quarterback in high school. I went to a catholic school and we ran the wishbone. We dominated for several years until my old coach retired. He always had a saying, "The wishbone is the easiest to defend against, but the hardest to stop". I find this true because of the success rate we had with it. Psychologically and physically it beats opponents down. Every play they know they are going to get smacked in the mouth. Probably the most succesful play we ever had though was the play action pass. It always worked. When ND isnt playing I watch every Navy game on CSTV. Their offense runs for about 300 yards a game. That is incredulous. Now given they dont play any big time schools very often, but I have to beleive that the option is still a very potent offense with the right tools.

The best teams have the right tools. And it's simply not a feasible offense against top teams. It's ok to use once in a while...but it really is easy to stop. And top teams LIKE smacking people in the mouth. That's why they are top teams.

Look at U. Do you see them being tentative against runners? Hell no.

Just remember the bewildered look on the Husker faces back when Miami absolutely obliterated them and made each hit look that much more powerful.

 

[irishtexan]

I guess we will really never know. I dont foresee any top teams switching to the bone any time soon!

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

air force almost busted tennessee with it this year,but ut's defense wasn't prepared for it like they should have been,it was air force's first game,so they had more time to prepare themselves and i'm sure fisher deberry had the whole team listen to rocky top on their mp3's before they went to bed.

 

[KMac151993]

It's high risk, low reward...and terribly easy to defend.

You obviously have never played defense or game planed for a team that ran the option. It is not that easy to defend if ran correctly, which if that is what your offense is based upon then you will. It comes down to the speed in today's game and size of the players plus the NFL. If you have small undersized quick guys, ex. Navy, then you can get away with it because you physically can't line up and go toe to toe with the big boys. But what WR is going to want to play in an offense like that....no one and thats why they start losing big time offensive recruits and have mainly abandoned it at the big time level.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

You obviously have never played defense or game planed for a team that ran the option. It is not that easy to defend if ran correctly, which if that is what your offense is based upon then you will. It comes down to the speed in today's game and size of the players plus the NFL. If you have small undersized quick guys, ex. Navy, then you can get away with it because you physically can't line up and go toe to toe with the big boys. But what WR is going to want to play in an offense like that....no one and thats why they start losing big time offensive recruits and have mainly abandoned it at the big time level.

I have not played it, it's true. But those who have, have abandoned it.

In the NFL it's about winning games and thus making millions. The option does not win games at the highest levels...thus it's not run.

 

[TexasDomer]

What you do see a lot of is spread option that has the misdirection and plays on the edge, along with a passing attack. WVU runs it well, as do others.

What we are seeing is an evolution of the old triple option or veer into something that keeps DBs honest and uses play action more effectively.

 

[Vince Young]

This is an interesting time to be a football fan. It's way too early to tell if the spread option is just a short-lived fad or the next step in the evolution of the game, but I'm going to have fun watching it play out. Teams like Michigan State, West Virginia and Florida are thrilling to watch right now, as was Utah when Urban was still there. Under the spread option, it sometimes feels like every third play is a gimmick play.

In a roundabout sort of way, the spread option is kind of a return to football's roots. Decades ago, football involved far more designed plays where the QB just took the snap and followed his blockers. Designed QB-runs have dropped off over time, but they're coming back into style. And as such, quick and mobile guys like Drew Stanton, Michael Vick and Vince Young who would've played WR 20 years ago are playing QB today, with creative coaches getting away from the ideas of how QBs are "supposed" to play and instead taking advantage of the unique combinations of talent that some players have.

Of course, then those QBs get to the NFL and run into coaches who aren't willing to risk re-writing how QBs are "supposed" to play. It seems like the only time Michael Vick gets to use his strongest weapon -- his legs -- is when a passing play breaks down. Such a waste of talent. And I'm not saying Atlanta should run the option or anything, but would a few more designed QB-runs in the playcalling kill anyone?

 

[Xfactor9600]

It's probably been posted, but I believe a major reason is that coaches are gavitating to offenses that emulate an NFL attack and then selling that as a recruiting bonus.

 

[tommy]

its hard on the QB im sure most coolege QBs couldnt hold up specialy when they are trying to get in to the nfl

 

[Indydomer]

Im pretty sure Nebraska was pretty damn sucessful with it. The only reason they switched to their offense now is because they couldn't get recruits anymore. That is not the arguement. If Texas ran the wishbone with Vince Young they would have dominated. It just isn't run much anymore because it doesn't relate to the pros. Could you imagine West Virginia running the option with White and Slayton. It would be sick. Defenses can't even stop that weak ass spread option. It only has two options. The qb is going to hand it off or he is going to keep. The wishbone has multiple options every play.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Im pretty sure Nebraska was pretty damn sucessful with it. The only reason they switched to their offense now is because they couldn't get recruits anymore... If Texas ran the wishbone with Vince Young they would have dominated. It just isn't run much anymore because it doesn't relate to the pros.

Correct. Because the option is not run in the NFL.

Could you imagine West Virginia running the option with White and Slayton. It would be sick. Defenses can't even stop that weak ass spread option. It only has two options. The qb is going to hand it off or he is going to keep. The wishbone has multiple options every play.

Correct...in college. However, the best teams will stop it.

And it does NOT work in the NFL due to discipline, talent, and defensive schemes.

So, the only reason to pursue it in college is if you know you can't win a NC and need a bit of an edge by keeping other D's off balance.

 

[Indydomer]

Good teams won't stop it. Did USC stop Texas in the NC game. Nope. Vince Young tore them up with the option play. Your argument is dead my man. The option was effective, and always will be effective. It just doesn't apply to the modern player. Nobody is the star that is the problem. the success is passed out throughout the backfield not just to one guy.

 

[tommy]

i think if teams thought they could win with it they would do it

 

[Indydomer]

Also did you see Mike Vick and Warrick Dunn running the spread option last week. they had 300 some odd yards rushing. It was pretty damn effective. Granted Mike Vick is special, but it worked.

 

[tommy]

it didnt work last night

 

[Indydomer]

true I don't think it is effective on the pro level just college. Pro teams can shut it down. just was using that as an example.

Saints looked damn good last night. I was impressed.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Good teams won't stop it. Did USC stop Texas in the NC game. Nope. Vince Young tore them up with the option play. Your argument is dead my man. The option was effective, and always will be effective. It just doesn't apply to the modern player. Nobody is the star that is the problem. the success is passed out throughout the backfield not just to one guy.

You are saying USC represents all of football? C'mon. Be serious.

Good teams do stop it, or it would be used in the NFL.

The NFL is about winning. Winning leads to money. NFL teams will use the best offense possible.

The option is something the NFL almost never uses because it does not win games.

The option is an anachronism and is only successful when used sparingly to catch people off guard.

 

[BigIrish]

The option is something the NFL almost never uses because it does not win games.

there's 11 men on offense, and 11 men on defense. any offense can be stopped with the right defense. success in football - regardless of the formation, depends on which unit can do their job more effectively. THAT'S what wins games.

while it is true that it's about money, i think you're underestimating a pro team's unwillingness to expose their quarterback - typically one of the highest paid, marquee players on the roster - to the beating that you take as an option quarterback. there's too much money invested in that player to see him go down with a separated shoulder because he's getting hit a billion times a game.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

there's 11 men on offense, and 11 men on defense. any offense can be stopped with the right defense. success in football - regardless of the formation, depends on which unit can do their job more effectively. THAT'S what wins games.

while it is true that it's about money, i think you're underestimating a pro team's unwillingness to expose their quarterback - typically one of the highest paid, marquee players on the roster - to the beating that you take as an option quarterback. there's too much money invested in that player to see him go down with a separated shoulder because he's getting hit a billion times a game.

You bring up a very good point...injuries to the QB. That itself is a great reason.

Let's face it, the Option stretches the field sideline-to sideline...and the pass does it end to end.

There are plenty of other less risky ways to stretch the field side-to-side instead of risking your QB each time.

 

[solo]

After reading this exchange I have come to several conclusions (that may or may not be correct):

1. The NFL does not run the option because they don't want to subject the QB to the beating he will take running it. Not to mention, every player in the NFL is a stud, so teams really don't need to try and compensate for a lack of talent with a gimicky system.

2. More colleges don't run it because they would have trouble recruiting quality QB's and Wr's. Not to mention, everything trickles down from the NFL and the NFL is stuck in passing mode.

I don't feel that it can be stopped as easily as some in this forum suggest. We see the Navy option every year but often have trouble stopping it. Nebraska dominated for years and years running it and has even won a NC running it more recently than ND has won a NC. I don't think it is dead. I could easily see a struggling BCS conference team that can't recruit like the big boys deploying it. Schools like UNC, Texas A&M, Miss State, Connecticut, Northwestern, etc...Heck, it Callahna fails at NU, I could see them going back to it. I definitely think we will see thi offense come back. Not everyone can have a high powered passing attack because you need a top quality QB to do so. In fact, it might be easier to find a really fast back that can sometimes throw than it is to find the elite QB needed to run these pro style offenses.

 

[Vince Young]

I really don't think the issue is entirely that the option doesn't work in the NFL. Everyone in the NFL runs some slight variation on a "pro-style offense" because it has become Gospel in the NFL that the only type of offense that will work in the NFL is a "pro-style offense."

Think about it. If an NFL coach tries to install some sort of gimmick offense and it doesn't work, two things happen: the coach gets branded as an idiot and never gets hired to coach again, and the gimmick offense gets branded as a failure and nobody else tries it. But what if the problem isn't the offensive scheme itself? What if the coach was trying to run it with the wrong sort of players? What if the coach's playcalling within that scheme was bad?

It's a mistake to assume that NFL coaches are gods who know definitively What Will Work and What Won't Work. They're good at what they do, but they're not infallible, and when it comes right down to it they want to keep their jobs as much as Joe Six-Pack in his cubicle wants to keep his job. They have every incentive to play it safe with a tried-and-true offense and absolutely ZERO incentive to take a big risk on an unproven system.

THAT is why nobody runs the option in the NFL.

No defense in the NFL is perfect. If you come up with runners who are fast and tough and get good blockers on the line, I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't work. But you'd have to assemble a team SPECIFICALLY with an option offense in mind.

 

[BGIF]

The option is a gimmick and cannot be run successfully against a disciplined team anymore.

Holtz tried using it during his brief stint in the NFL *snicker*

The option is something you run when you have a mobile QB and you don't have the talent to send 3 WRs out.

It's a gimmick and nothing more.

Think back to Nebraska vs Miami. Nebraska was at the top of its game. Miami's D spent time working man-for-man coverage. Once they perfected that, its over.

Just pick a man and follow him. Game over.

The option is a "gimmick"?

Isn't it a strategy like the Single Wing, Rockne Shift, T-Formation, Veer, Wishbone, Run and Shoot, West Coast, etc, etc? One that's been around for several decades. Actually one of the longest running offenses in college football history. Not bad for a "gimmick".

They all worked until defenses adjusted. Leahy dropped the Rockne Shift and installed the T-Formation much to the chagrin of Irish fans. He did pretty good with the "T" considering he played even tougher competition than Rockne did.

Holtz tried using it during his brief stint in the NFL *snicker*

You were what 5 years old when Holtz was the Jets head coach 30 years ago. You remember it well, huh? *snicker*

I don't remember his offense well primarily cause I was a Giants fan but remember enough to know that Broadway Joe Namath was his first string QB playing on probably the worst pair of knees in NFL history. And playing behind an OLine that was absolutely putrid. Having Powlus run the Option was a waste of QB talent. Having Joe Willy run was something Holtz would contemplate. Now the backup QB was a rookie named Richard Todd who just came from Bear Bryant's Crimson Tide. As I recall Bryant used several offensive styles in coaching career one of which was the Wishbone which is an Option Type Offense. Holtz might have tried some option considering Todd's background but Namath was the prinicpal QB and got most of the snaps. The Option wasn't Holtz's downfall in the NFL. In his resignation interview which I saw live, he noted, "I know how to motivate college football players but I don't have a clue how to motivate professional football players. Everything I knew failed." Having some talent would have helped. In their history Parcells is the only coach to be over .500 by more than a few games. The guys that preceeded and succeeded Holtz also won around 3 games a season.

Think back to Nebraska vs Miami. Nebraska was at the top of its game. Miami's D spent time working man-for-man coverage. Once they perfected that, its over.

1) Those were bowl games where Miami had a full month to practice nothing but Option Defense.
2) They were all HOME games for Miami
3) Nebraska got to play in the steambath that is Miami. Ever wonder why Miami doesn't like to leave the South? They lose their environment edge.
4) Nebraska never had 3 WRs, they rarely had 1. Anybody could play man coverage on them back then.