Does Anyone Disagree With What the Pope Said?
- Thread starter marv81s
- Start date
ralphwaldoemerson
Banned
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 6
Bullshit, kid. You posted something that was a complete non sequitur and betrayed an AMAZING misunderstanding of a very simple post of mine. Here, let me break it down real slow to you, so you can maybe get it-
hateful, ignorant thought -> hateful, ignorant speech -> hateful, ignorant action = violence
We all clear, Socrates?
Óglaigh_na_hÉireann
New member
- Messages
- 1,276
- Reaction score
- 32
lol, I'll get back to you after the game, son.
ralphwaldoemerson
Banned
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 6
lol, so you got nothin
Next time don't come into a thread in which a real discussion is taking place if you don't mean to really discuss. Everyone else here was having a real discussion.
Next time don't come into a thread in which a real discussion is taking place if you don't mean to really discuss. Everyone else here was having a real discussion.
marv81s
v v v KamaraPolice's GF
- Messages
- 1,463
- Reaction score
- 66
Going back to Tommy's point, there are a large amount of clerics in these mosques that are preaching Hate, Hate the USA, hate Israel, they are the reason why there is evil in the world. I remember on an Hannity & Colmes episode that was on about a month or so ago where they were talking about a documentry that was done by a fellow muslim that showed just how bad it is over there, and within the US. I'll never forget the images of all the people in the middle east celebrating in the streets the attacks of 9/11. It is no different over here, hate is taught at a young age. I see the Pope today issued regret that his speech has offended muslims, but stopped short of an apology, which i dont' think he owes one.
2:30, gotta go. Talk to ya after the game everyone.
GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2:30, gotta go. Talk to ya after the game everyone.
GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R
rontdtarchala
Guest
havn't read every post but I'll chime in....
Ralphy shut the f98ck up!!! I am not even catholic and cheer the pope with all my heart...I am so sick of people not willing to be f_cking honest...why is it everyone is so afraid of the dam truth. Mohammad was a murderous blight on humanity...period! have any of you actually read the kuran...anyone? before you open your dam mouths read it!! And if you want to know yes I have not only read it but have studied it for years along with the entire nag hammadi library...I do re-writes for authors. A good site to go to is www.earth-history.com LC Gerts has devoted about 45 years of his life to this study. I was only able to finish the preface and chptr 1 before he went underground do to threats from islamic scum...political correctness is going to be the ruin of society as a whole...tell it like it is. Islam is not a religion of peace love forgiveness...it is a religion of hate murder and intollerence...I can't say anymore or I'll be barred from this site and it means too much to me.............
Ralphy shut the f98ck up!!! I am not even catholic and cheer the pope with all my heart...I am so sick of people not willing to be f_cking honest...why is it everyone is so afraid of the dam truth. Mohammad was a murderous blight on humanity...period! have any of you actually read the kuran...anyone? before you open your dam mouths read it!! And if you want to know yes I have not only read it but have studied it for years along with the entire nag hammadi library...I do re-writes for authors. A good site to go to is www.earth-history.com LC Gerts has devoted about 45 years of his life to this study. I was only able to finish the preface and chptr 1 before he went underground do to threats from islamic scum...political correctness is going to be the ruin of society as a whole...tell it like it is. Islam is not a religion of peace love forgiveness...it is a religion of hate murder and intollerence...I can't say anymore or I'll be barred from this site and it means too much to me.............
bayernarsch
New member
- Messages
- 1,033
- Reaction score
- 6
It is reported this morning that the pope has apologized for offending Muslims with the quotation he used in his speech (see the bbc website). Kudos to him for recognizing that his position as pontiff carries with it a great level of responsibility, especially while attempting to open the lines of dialogue between faiths since this was the objective of the discussion in the first place. With that stated, I will publicly state that some of you, my fellow Notre Dame fans, are extremely offensive in your characterizations of other faiths and blind acceptance of the viewpoints of poiticians and the western media with regards to Islam. As a Muslim, who happened to convert while attending and graduating from Notre Dame, I can say there is at least one member of this board who does care about the initial comments and the subsequent statements issued by some here. However, I shall not attack any of you personally, as the same root word in arabic that gives us salaam, also found in the very word Islam, means peace and I think some here need to observe that aspect of the faith in action from an adherent for true dialogue to occur. I will say that in hindsight I found it ironic that as I read the comments here yesterday and my blood boiled, I was also watching the Irish play quite poorly, which did not help that condition one bit. But when I hit my knees to make prayer, those feelings were gone. I guess the inner jihad (struggle, not holy war as is falsely interpreted) can always be won when you follow the right path, whatever that may be for one individually. Please remember that before submitting an angry post vilifying others.
S
ShivaIrish
Guest
Well that's quite the mouthful rontdtarchala. I have studied the Koran a little bit. To say that Islam is a religion of war, one would have to conclude that so is Christianity. Personally, I don't believe either one supports war in and of itself, but the Koran may make more provisions for a just war theory. I think the Koran is very grounded within its own cultural mileau, in that it addresses a lot of issues within life that other religious texts may not. How can you say Mohammad was a "murderous blight on humanity"? What is your basis? The fact that he went to war? If that is the case, using that rational, everybody who is in war is murderous.
An example of the Koran suporting a just war is 22:39: "Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them"
---Therefore, this passage sets forth the prerequisite of oppression in order for there to be cause for war.
The Koran also sets forth provision for how a war should be fought, such as at 2:190-192: "And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits....But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."
Again, we see the precondition of war, which is oppression, but we also see that in war, limits are not to be exceeded. In other places, this has been explicitely pointed out, such as not killing women and children, in 4:52:257. Most importantly here, we see that Allah is Merciful, so if the others stop fighting, so must a Muslim, as long as the persecution stops as well.
Furthermore, as I referred to in an earlier post on this thread, Muhammad, because of the teaching in the Koran, was able to reduce the murderous practices of the culture as a whole. One great example of this is with the passage at 17:31: "Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin." Killing babies was a common practice in Arabia at the time of Muhammad, as it has been with many areas of the world. One reason for this would be that if the population was too high, there may not be enough food to go around. Allah tells the Muslims, however, to not worry about getting the food, just do not kill the children.
As far as Islam being intolerant, the Koran actually teaches tolerance in regards to religion. Therefore, "There is no compulsion in religion (2:256)."
Can we blame Muhammad and the Koran for those Muslims who do not follow their own religious teaching? If that is the case, then we better blame Jesus also for the Crusades. I believe that the Bible's teachings were also used to endorse slavery, even here in America. You can connect injustices to pretty much any major religion in the world, but that does not mean the religions, or the seminal religious figure of those religions, actually condone and support those injustices.
N
NDAlumSon
Guest
Here is a Vatican translation of the address Benedict XVI delivered.
What does Jihad really Mean?
An Italian nun was shot dead. AP:
To the Islamic faithful: Methinks thou doth protest too much.
Looks like the Pope hit a nerve here.
How come Christians didn't burn tires in the street when Mapplethorpe put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art?
Maybe nobody had any matches.
Or maybe we're a little more secure in our faith than those who throw tantrums over cartoons.
What does Jihad really Mean?
An Italian nun was shot dead. AP:
To the Islamic faithful: Methinks thou doth protest too much.
Looks like the Pope hit a nerve here.
How come Christians didn't burn tires in the street when Mapplethorpe put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art?
Maybe nobody had any matches.
Or maybe we're a little more secure in our faith than those who throw tantrums over cartoons.
W
will1066
Guest
standby the pope
standby the pope
peaceful religion my ass! islam is an abomination! we are in a holy war right now for the survival of christianity itself!!! and the sooner we realize this,and take the gloves off,the better!!! the european civilizations are slowing dying. their cullture`s being destroyed by islamic immigaration! radical islamic rodents all throughout "EURABIA". this former marine has seen it firsthand. i lived for ten years in london,and traveled throughout the continent.onward christian soldiers,sailors,airmen,and marines!!! give our leaders the courage and faith to confront these enemies, and destroy them once and for all!!!!! to hell with appeasement!!! you`ll find that in the dictionary near "apathy" and "annihilation"may our lord JESUS CHRIST guide and protect us!!!
on a lighter note what a terrible beating from michigan! the irish better pick themselves up. dust themselves off,and get ready to go to east lansing and get some payback!!! next week tells me just what kind of team the 2006 irish are!!!
standby the pope
peaceful religion my ass! islam is an abomination! we are in a holy war right now for the survival of christianity itself!!! and the sooner we realize this,and take the gloves off,the better!!! the european civilizations are slowing dying. their cullture`s being destroyed by islamic immigaration! radical islamic rodents all throughout "EURABIA". this former marine has seen it firsthand. i lived for ten years in london,and traveled throughout the continent.onward christian soldiers,sailors,airmen,and marines!!! give our leaders the courage and faith to confront these enemies, and destroy them once and for all!!!!! to hell with appeasement!!! you`ll find that in the dictionary near "apathy" and "annihilation"may our lord JESUS CHRIST guide and protect us!!!
on a lighter note what a terrible beating from michigan! the irish better pick themselves up. dust themselves off,and get ready to go to east lansing and get some payback!!! next week tells me just what kind of team the 2006 irish are!!!
Last edited:
Will, cute sound bite but "appeasement" doesn't appear in the dictionary between "apathy" and "annihilation". It follows both of them, doesn't it?
S
ShivaIrish
Guest
will1066, you seem a little bit too gleeful about the thought of yet another crusade. Do you truly want such a thing? Whatever happened to loving your neighbor? Even if wrongs have been done, what happened to "turn the other cheek"? What of forgiveness? If looking at the Koran does not shed light on how a beatiful tradition has been distorted by some, and misunderstood by many, perhaps Notre Dame's own mission statement might help:
"The aim is to create a sense of human solidarity and concern for the common good that will bear fruit as learning becomes service to justice.
Notre Dame also has a responsibility to advance knowledge in a search for truth through original inquiry and publication.... The University is committed to constructive and critical engagement with the whole of human culture."
Destroying people is certainly not consistent with the ideals of creating human solidarity. We might wonder how one goes about doing this, and part of the way is also found in the quoted excerpt from the mission statement. It is about searching for truth and engaging others in "constructive and critical engagement with the whole of human culture," which demands open dialoge. It requires listening. And one cannot simply be engaged with others who think the same way that he or she does. It must be with "the whole of human culture." I hope there is not another crusade. I hope we can learn to understand better both our Muslim and Christian brothers, instead of hoping for more war, and trying to incite others to do the same.
R
rontdtarchala
Guest
no more turning cheecks my friend, they do not teach peace. They ....your friends the muslims...you know the ones that blew three thousand americans away in new york, PA, DC and thousands more around the world, teach absolute hatred around the world...nice to pick out certain sections that fit the bill...only didn't mohamad say to destroy the infidel. Oh yah you are to offer the infidel the chance to renounce their religion if they do all is forgiven if not lop off their head...oh yeah the clerics have given our good loving friend osamah the right to kill us...but only if he doesn't kill more than 10 million at a time...the best part shiva is their is documented proof they teach this crap right here in america...oh yeah in your city too...hey after they blow up your town give em a big smooch ok...
I
IrishCPA
Guest
I
IrishCPA
Guest
AMEN BROTHER!!!!
G
gipper2nd@yahoo.com
Guest
I thought this was supposed to be a football site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This thread should have never been posted!
R
rontdtarchala
Guest
It is supposed to be posted partner...we completely love our Notre Dame...we live sleep eat dream Our Lady...but there are major things going on in this world that have a major impact on us...and its important that we are able to speak our minds...I disagreed with shiva...I usually completely agree with him...he makes some great observations...thats why this site is of the caliber it is...thats why I along with many others look forward to this site as our daily refuge
G
gipper2nd@yahoo.com
Guest
This is still a football site..............if you need to go to mass, ( to clear your head), then by all means do so. I didn't go to N.D., but I've followed them for 40 plus years! I'm sorry, but this site is about football. If I wanted to know about politics & world events..I would turn on the T.V.
H
HereComeTheIrish
Guest
Gipper, you make some valid and interesting points. This site should be exclusively dedicated to Notre Dame football and happenings in and around campus. This discussion sickens me...If you want to do this type of crap, do it over at CNN or Fox News...I hate when people jump off what is really important in the world on a grand scale and that is Notre Dame Football. Losers...!!!
In the event that you didn't realize, this is the Leprechaun Lounge. Let me give you a definition.
The Leprechaun Lounge
Grab a green beer and pull up your chair, It's happy hour at the Leprechaun Lounge. Got something on your mind? Share it. Everythings fair game here.[/COLOR][/COLOR]...
I'd suggest that you check where your at before you attack another members post. You just come off looking like a douchebag. But, if it walks like a douche, and it talks like a douche...it must be a douche.
Sorry Svo...I'm back to civil and mature content...just felt compelled to react to this gentleman.
S
ShivaIrish
Guest
Gipper 2nd@yahoo.com: ND Football is the "thread" that binds us here at Irishenvy, but part of the reason I like Nd football is because it is contextualized. It has a place within a bigger picture. I think that is why a lot of us like it--perhaps even you. We're not like USC where it seems just to be about football and celebrity status. Or Miami. The list goes on. Jesus overlooks ND Stadium, for Pete's Sake
So I have to agree with rontdtarchala on this issue. This site is a bit of a refuge. Personally, I'm not around that many other ND fans through my daily interactions. So I like to hear what my fellow fans are thinking, and that applies to more than just football.
On the flip-side, I wonder, can someone give my a citation for Muhammad proclaiming to Muslims to kill infidels. As I've pointed out, the Koran recognizes the necessity of war and killing at times, as apparently do so many Christians. But I don't recall any proclamations like that from Muhammad or the Koran, unless perhaps one is listening to someone like Jerry Fallwell?
The sections I picked out to the Koran earlier were to highlight the fact that the religion in and of itself does not support terrorism. If some people do so, who happen to call themselves Muslim, that does not invalidate the tradition as a whole. Should we dismiss Christianity becasue of the negatives (and we all know there are plenty) caused by people supposedly Christian?
So I have to agree with rontdtarchala on this issue. This site is a bit of a refuge. Personally, I'm not around that many other ND fans through my daily interactions. So I like to hear what my fellow fans are thinking, and that applies to more than just football.
On the flip-side, I wonder, can someone give my a citation for Muhammad proclaiming to Muslims to kill infidels. As I've pointed out, the Koran recognizes the necessity of war and killing at times, as apparently do so many Christians. But I don't recall any proclamations like that from Muhammad or the Koran, unless perhaps one is listening to someone like Jerry Fallwell?
The sections I picked out to the Koran earlier were to highlight the fact that the religion in and of itself does not support terrorism. If some people do so, who happen to call themselves Muslim, that does not invalidate the tradition as a whole. Should we dismiss Christianity becasue of the negatives (and we all know there are plenty) caused by people supposedly Christian?
N
NDAlumSon
Guest
This is a little off topic I know, but I was berated at one point in my virgin weeks here on IrishEnvy about my non-football postings.
The problem I think lies in the fact that the "front page" or home page lists the 'latest' postings by anyone, on any topic.
Whereas, if you want ND football only threads or ND recruiting only threads, then you should be viewing the site from those particular threads only, which have to be accessed from the "forums front-page".
In other words, if your looking for football related stuff only, go to:
IrishEnvy.com > Play Like A Champion Today
Fighting Irish Football
If your looking for recruiting news only, go to:
IrishEnvy.com > Play Like A Champion Today
Fighting Irish Recruiting
But if your looking for the latest postings and comments, regardless of their topic, then you're going to see non-football related threads here:
IrishEnvy.com
The problem I think lies in the fact that the "front page" or home page lists the 'latest' postings by anyone, on any topic.
Whereas, if you want ND football only threads or ND recruiting only threads, then you should be viewing the site from those particular threads only, which have to be accessed from the "forums front-page".
In other words, if your looking for football related stuff only, go to:
IrishEnvy.com > Play Like A Champion Today
Fighting Irish FootballIf your looking for recruiting news only, go to:
IrishEnvy.com > Play Like A Champion Today
Fighting Irish RecruitingBut if your looking for the latest postings and comments, regardless of their topic, then you're going to see non-football related threads here:
IrishEnvy.com
marv81s
v v v KamaraPolice's GF
- Messages
- 1,463
- Reaction score
- 66
Wow, when I posted this thread I didn't know that I would offend that many people and/or be accused of posting a stupid thread. Nor did I mean for it to turn into a hate thread. I thought it was important at the time because of the importance of it at the time. I thought it was very important for someone of the Pope's stature to stand up and do what he did. I seriously doubt that his intentions were to start a second Crusades. I believe it was necessary for him to make that address because of the crazy ass shit that is going on in our world and these Islamic Facist that are killing themselves and innocent civilians in cold blood in the name of religion. Maybe part of his intention was to Clerics in the Muslim world to stand up and start speaking up against these attacks and condem them. But, it had the opposite affect.
The last thing I wanted this to turn into was a hate thread. And if you thought it was stupid, then don't keep coming back and reading it.
Thanks to everyone else that spoke up in support of it! Much appreciated. Its great to come to a thread like this and talk about other events besides the importance of ND football.
The last thing I wanted this to turn into was a hate thread. And if you thought it was stupid, then don't keep coming back and reading it.
Thanks to everyone else that spoke up in support of it! Much appreciated. Its great to come to a thread like this and talk about other events besides the importance of ND football.
H
HereComeTheIrish
Guest
No harm Marv...just a touchy subject with a lot of people and understandably so. While so many of us disagree in principle about our worldly views we all share a common bond which is the Irish of Notre Dame. Go Irish.