Never been more disappointed after a win

[ralphwaldoemerson]

Penn St didn't play particularly well yesterday.

 

[jiggafini19]

Lots and lots of preseaon hype that didn't manifest itself last night. Personally, I'm not surprised the game was close. I'm surprised at the score.

Two games in a row and BQ hasn't thrown a TD pass. And I agree with my guy Maison on D-Coordinators having a year of tape on CW. Tenuta is good folks, as good as advertised. And yes, Maison, SC won't skip a beat this year. Boo hoo all those guys are gone. They just get replaced with more HS All Americans.

They got the win. Now we get to see just how much of a genius our coach is and how much of a golden boy our QB is. The last two games they've played haven't been stellar offensive performances. I watched that Fiesta Bowl tape about four times this summer and I saw the same offense last night that was in AZ that day 8 months ago. Shaky, hurried and uncomfy.

But now they come home. Let's see what happens when the home team is playing just another game. That's about all it is in South Bend. Last night was the biggest GT game in 20 years.

 

[TexasDomer]

Good points, as usual Jiggs.

Davie or Herbie mentioned last night that Tenuta knew (early in the game) that we go to screens when we are "in trouble." He got this from talking with OSU coordinators.

One of the things that was supposed to distinguish Weis' system was the lack of tendencies. I am a little concerned that DCs are starting to figure out the play, regardless of what formation it is run from.

 

[Bubba]

I don't have it charted out or anything. But, is it just me, or does Weis throw up the homerun ball a lot on 1st and Ten. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But if I notice it on my couch, surely a DC watching film is going to. One thing about him, though, he makes great halftime adjustments and will surprise you on occasion. That 2nd field goal attempt, I just knew he was going to go for it instead. And the 4th and 1 call...huge balls.

 

[NDgettysburg]

I don't have it charted out or anything. But, is it just me, or does Weis throw up the homerun ball a lot on 1st and Ten.

Yes!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As long as they're completions...otherwise it sets the defense up nicely waiting on a 2nd down run which leaves you with little surprise. Oh, you can throw again on 2nd (which seems to happen alot) but again, if it's not caught, your 3rd down options are very few, making it easy on the defense again. No way we should have been going for the home run on 1st down when we were behind 10-0. That just ain't ND football. GT was allowed to show absolutely no respect for the run in the first half. Maybe that was bad playcalling or CW was just setting them up for the 2nd half all along...look at it however makes you feel better I guess. CW's love for the first down bomb reminds me of Lou's penchant for the same exact thing on the first play after getting a turnover. And it was sooooo predictable.

Me, I'd rather see a nice mix and leave the bombs for 2nd and mid-to-short situations.

 

[ralphwaldoemerson]

Man, Weis should definitely consult all you people on his playcalling. Because he obviously is lost out there.

 

[Bubba]

I'm sure he's got you on speed dial.

 

[Bubba]

You know, I avoided the use of the ignore function for a long time. But apparently, if you have an opinion or notice any trends you just shouldn't put them out there. Because none of us are the coach, we can't have an opinion? Then get off the frickin' site and start your own, Waldo. I'm a die-hard ND fan. I completely believe Weis should be the coach. But, I'm still entitled to my opinion. It doesn't mean I don't trust him. Anyway, you won't offend me further, thanks to this sites construction and the functions it allows me to use.

 

[ralphwaldoemerson]

No, but then I don't pretend to know more about playcalling than a guy who's called the plays for three super bowl winners and a BCS team, do I?

Weis has tendencies as a playcaller- the tendency to capitalize on his own roster's strengths, and to capitalize on the opponent's weaknesses, if at all possible. The fallback plays (screens and bombs on first down) are such only because of the team's still limited talent on offense. The best players on the offense, by far, are the QB and the two wideouts - hence, deep bombs are the team's usual offensive punch in the mouth. The o-line (as good as Harris supposedly is, as good as Young will be, as experienced as they are) isn't dominant, or even good sometimes, so when a team is blitzing and attacking a lot and taking away the team's best offensive punch in the mouth, the deep ball, Weis goes to the screen, both to perhaps pickup some yardage and slow down the opponent so that he can throw the bomb. Last night, by the way, this worked just fine.

When the Irish have a line of Sam Youngs, and a stud (Darius is very good and the team would be lost without him, but he's not a stud running back) running back, and freak tight ends and wideouts (we have a couple such wideouts now), as WELL as a top notch QB (we have one now), there will be no tendencies. Then the offense will be able to do whatever it likes on any play. But for now there are some weaknesses on the offense. Poor playcalling wasn't the only reason it was so bad before Weis got here. It's not yet an elite unit, talent-wise, despite having some elite pieces, and an elite playcaller.

 

[Bubba]

This is my favorite view in this thread.

This message is hidden because ralphwaldoemerson is on your ignore list.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Man, Weis should definitely consult all you people on his playcalling. Because he obviously is lost out there.

Don't think anyone is saying that at all...

 

[TexasDomer]

Man, Weis should definitely consult all you people on his playcalling. Because he obviously is lost out there.

Yet another jump to conclusions from RWE.

I trust CW implicitly, especially when compared to the previous OC regimes dating at least as far back as Colletto. I merely pointed out what commentators said they heard from the opposing DC about tendencies in our playcalling.

Geez.

 

[ralphwaldoemerson]

Well when people here say that "he wasn't supposed to have tendencies!" and "people have found him out!" like he's a fraud, yea, it kind of seems like they're saying that. He's not a fraud, and an attentive viewer will understand pretty quickly why even a brilliant offensive mind like Weis has tendencies - he doesn't have USC's offensive personnel. Yet. When you're playing top BCS conference defenses without an offensive unit composed of elite players, as Weis is, you will have tendencies. You will need outs. You will be forced to do things that you ideally wouldn't do. Weis will do fine this year and perhaps next year, but once he's got an elite team, player for player, he'll be able to do everything he wants, at any time.

 

[Bubba]

Man, the ignore function doesn't work on quotes. Sometimes I will still have to read that dribble.

 

[ralphwaldoemerson]

Drivel. Dribble is what you do with a basketball. Someone quote me so you can save that guy from a lifetime of embarrassing misspellings.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Drivel. Dribble is what you do with a basketball. Someone quote me so you can save that guy from a lifetime of embarrassing misspellings.

tsk tsk.....someone who uses a proper name for a nick and doesn't capitalize the first letter, really shouldn't be pointing out the spelling/grammatical errors of others.

 

[Bubba]

I just figured it out. RWE is Mark May on IrishEnvy.com.

 

[Bubba]

tsk tsk.....someone who uses a proper name for a nick and doesn't capitalize the first letter, really shouldn't be pointing out the spelling/grammatical errors of others.

Thanks for the quote NDG. Actually, if you look up dribble in the dictionary, you will find 2 seperate meanings that apply. 1. to drivel or slaver.....most of what RWE says (or writes) would be better if it just wound up on his pillow at night. 2. to come or issue in piecemeal or desultory fashion. RWE, in case you didn't know, desultory means marked by lack of definite plan, regularity, or purpose. This definitely applies. I might not be smart enough to be a football coach, but I have a little bit of a grasp on the english language. I just don't measure up to Waldo's standards.

 

[ralphwaldoemerson]

Yea that's a great save. You're not really a 38 year old man who typed "dribble" for "drivel."

Also, there exist no rules of grammar or capitalization or punctuation for internet usernames, last I checked. My screenname could be unitedstates and it wouldn't be incorrect. Nice try, though.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Also, there exist no rules of grammar or capitalization or punctuation for internet usernames, last I checked. My screenname could be unitedstates and it wouldn't be incorrect. Nice try, though.

nice spin....you should work for the Democrats.

 

[Bubba]

My apologies to those who came to this thread actually thinking it was going to be about ND football. I was off track and I'm done.

 

[TexasDomer]

Well when people here say that "he wasn't supposed to have tendencies!" and "people have found him out!" like he's a fraud, yea, it kind of seems like they're saying that.

Ah, but no one said this. You are so well-practiced at the art of false presumption. I said that one of the top DCs, when speaking with the OSU staff, identified tendencies in CW's playcalling. That doesn't make CW a fraud--it's simply something he needs to evaluate. One of the things that helped us win early last year was the fact that teams didn't know what was coming, and that started to get away from us as we struggled against Stanford, lost to OSU, and now played a mediocre game against GT. I'm not hitting the panic button, but I do long for us to be able to dictate to the defense again. On the bright side, the move to off-tackle dive plays with zone blocking last night did this--it used GT's strengths against it.

So, to clarify and prevent the Bob Beamon of conclusion jumps to frame the issue here, I do not believe CW to be a fraud.

He's not a fraud, and an attentive viewer will understand pretty quickly why even a brilliant offensive mind like Weis has tendencies - he doesn't have USC's offensive personnel.

I don't think Charlie would use this excuse. Tendencies are about system, which of course is influenced by personnel, but it is also by offensive philosophy--what a coach likes to call on a given down and distance.

Yet. When you're playing top BCS conference defenses without an offensive unit composed of elite players, as Weis is, you will have tendencies.

No elite players, other than a Heisman candidate, a 1200 yard rusher, and all-American candidates at WR and OL? YGBSM.

You will need outs. You will be forced to do things that you ideally wouldn't do. Weis will do fine this year and perhaps next year, but once he's got an elite team, player for player, he'll be able to do everything he wants, at any time.

He has told us he is far further along in installing the full playbook than he was at this point last year.

 

[guff]

There's a lot of sentiment out there that GT could have won if they got the ball to Johnson more. And that inept coaching/playcalling was the reason he didn't get the ball more. Could it have been that Johnson didn't catch more balls because ND took him away?

My only concern coming out of this game is the O-Line. Physically they can block well but mentally they still have trouble picking up blitzes. Hopefully it gets corrected.

 

[NDgettysburg]

There's a lot of sentiment out there that GT could have won if they got the ball to Johnson more. And that inept coaching/playcalling was the reason he didn't get the ball more. Could it have been that Johnson didn't catch more balls because ND took him away?

CW said they doubled him constantly....so yep, I'd say CJ didn't have a huge day because of the defense, not because they didn't call his number. The one great thing about the game was that he never got behind the defense all by his lonesome the way the USC and OSU receivers did.

 

[punishment]

I was so disappointed with this win, that I am thinking of becoming a Texas fan instead. Please note the sarcasm.

Other than 95 Nebraska, find me a championship team that did not have at least one game like this throughout their championship run? By like this, I mean a game against a "lesser opponent" that turned out to be a dog fight, and a tough win.

People are too quick to overreact. I'm assuming that ND could win the remainder of its games (including Navy, Army, etc.) by 1 point at the last minute, and people will still be disappointed with ND. Because, even though we did go 12-0, you have to keep in mind, that they were not blow outs, and therefore it would be a disappointing season.

O well, you guys can remain disappointed with close wins all you want. I'll take 13 of those disappointing wins this season.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

these last two posts make more sense out of this thread then anyhting else i've read.Thanks ndgettysburg and punishment.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

oh yeah,here is the best one of all...pull up 1992 alabama in the search engine if it exists

 

[scooper]

I've only read the last page of this thread. It's probably not worth my time to go back and read the rest.

Hold me I'm Irish.

 

[NDgettysburg]

I'm assuming that ND could win the remainder of its games (including Navy, Army, etc.) by 1 point at the last minute, and people will still be disappointed with ND. Because, even though we did go 12-0, you have to keep in mind, that they were not blow outs, and therefore it would be a disappointing season.

you should never assume....I doubt you'd find very many ND fans that would complain about being 13-0 regardless of how close the wins were.

While a win is a win there's nothing wrong with expressing concern about aspects of the game that need work. I'll take that over wearing the blue and gold colored sunglasses any day. At least it's looking at things objectively. You can bet your ass that the coaching staff isn't happy with the way the game was played....and they'll work on it. All we're doing is talking about the same sort of thing...no one has burned their ND gear or called the season over. Talking about parts of the game that weren't done very well is all we, as fans, can really do...so what's the problem?

 

[Irishkid23]

A win is a win is a win.

Don't forget it was the 1st game against a team that kills many giants. We overcame, we adapted, we won! Period!