Gettysburg Address: What does it mean to us?

[Emcee77]

The war was fought to preserve the Union, plain and simple. That is one of the issues that makes the Gettysburg Address a little ahistorical.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning in this thread. How does it make the Gettsyburg Address "ahistorical" that the war was fought to preserve the Union? That's what Lincoln said the war was about. The Union was an experiment in government "of the people, by the people, and for the people," and if the South was allowed to secede, it would mean that the experiment failed, and Lincoln didn't want that to happen on his watch.

If you are saying that most people in the Union Army did not agree with that rationale for the war and instead believed that they were fighting to free the slaves, I guess I don't get the point? There is rarely a single reason we take any particular action in our democracy; rather, each person voting for it has a different reason. Citizen X voted for President Obama because Issue A is most important to him; Citizen Y voted for President Obama because Issue B is most important to him; etc. Senator X voted for the Widget Act for Policy Rationale A; Senator Y voted for the Widget Act for Policy Rationale B, etc. I don't find it strange that President Lincoln and Lieutenant Pewterschmidt of the Union Army had a different understanding of what the war was about.

(Incidentally, this gets at why, as a lawyer, I despise the concept of "originalism": the closer I look at an issue, the more certain I tend to become that there simply was no single unitary "original" understanding of a particular provision; there were many of them.)

 

[Irish#1]

Lee wrote that he did not expect necessarily at the outset to win a military victory as much as postpone a defeat. And he realized he would accomplish this through sacrificing great numbers of men (on both side) to this end. This is the second immorality of this man. In an offensive war, he had no intention of ending it in the least costly manner possible. In fact, he saw great carnage as his means to an appropriate end.

Bogs, You are correct that he knew the Union was superior in every way and the defeat of the Union wasn't likely. His intention wasn't to sacrifice as many lives as possible, but simply to extend the war long enough to get the Union to finally agree with the letting the southern states succeed. That's why he fought a strategic war of racing to key landmarks and waiting for the North to initiate the battles. His other tactic was to get to strategic points and catch the Union off guard in hopes of getting them to retreat which proved to be a huge success (until Lincoln finally made Grant the head of the army). He wrote that he thought the Northern population wouldn't like seeing the war drag on. Gettysburg was a different story. By the time Lee took the Army of Virginia into Pennsylvania, the South had very little resources left. He knew the only option left was to get to the outskirts of DC so the public pressure would be too great for Lincoln.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Bogs, You are correct that he knew the Union was superior in every way and the defeat of the Union wasn't likely. His intention wasn't to sacrifice as many lives as possible, but simply to extend the war long enough to get the Union to finally agree with the letting the southern states succeed. That's why he fought a strategic war of racing to key landmarks and waiting for the North to initiate the battles. His other tactic was to get to strategic points and catch the Union off guard in hopes of getting them to retreat which proved to be a huge success (until Lincoln finally made Grant the head of the army). He wrote that he thought the Northern population wouldn't like seeing the war drag on. Gettysburg was a different story. By the time Lee took the Army of Virginia into Pennsylvania, the South had very little resources left. He knew the only option left was to get to the outskirts of DC so the public pressure would be too great for Lincoln.

You are right! I meant to say as many lives as needed. But also I am right. He wasn't going to stop until the Union saw the futility of its position. And I believe it is safe to say he would have continued this sacrifice until the Union capitulated. Which turned out, with the generally poor leadership on both sides to be as many as possible, coincidentally. No general officer had any grasp of the increases in technology with the new generation of rifle bored cannon and small arms, save perhaps Union cavalry General John Buford and Confederate infantry General John Bell "Sam" Hood. As the conflict dawned a new generation of weaponry was distributed among troops, which caused incredible wounds and death from distances unimaginable.

The minié-ball which had several times the mass of most musket balls oft by using two hundred year old tactics with weapons that could shatter bone and require amputation at four times the distance as the previous generation of weapons, from just twenty years earlier. With its jacketed hollow bottom, a looser minié ball could be inserted in the barrel of a weapon, (small or large) in less time, allowing for a much higher rate of fire. In addition, the lead jacketed skirt sealed with the barrel to diminish escaping gasses, increasing muzzle velocity exponentially. And remember many of these weapons were .58 to .78 caliber! Yet generals took the time to parade their men on to the fields, while within range of the enemy, to line up to be mowed down. Or generals marched their men into withering fire in direct frontal assaults, (attacks with no diversion, or often no leading bombardment.)

The most famous example of this, (beyond almost any engagement by the Irish Brigade during the war especially Marysville Heights at Fredericksburg, Md) was Pickets charge, or the Pickett-Pettigrew assault, almost 13,000 confederates in nine brigades suffered over 50% casualties on the last day of Gettysburg during a forced march attack into the strength of the Union line. The attack lasted just over 1/2 hour. As many as one quarter of the original Confederate combatants were taken prisoner, also.

The intent of this post was to correct an error, and to convey the horror and futility of this war. As, I believe this war was a contrivance of those who were unhappy with the political end of a process they instigated.

 

[Irish#1]

You are right! I meant to say as many lives as needed. But also I am right. He wasn't going to stop until the Union saw the futility of its position. And I believe it is safe to say he would have continued this sacrifice until the Union capitulated. Which turned out, with the generally poor leadership on both sides to be as many as possible, coincidentally. No general officer had any grasp of the increases in technology with the new generation of rifle bored cannon and small arms, save perhaps Union cavalry General John Buford and Confederate infantry General John Bell "Sam" Hood. As the conflict dawned a new generation of weaponry was distributed among troops, which caused incredible wounds and death from distances unimaginable.

The minié-ball which had several times the mass of most musket balls oft by using two hundred year old tactics with weapons that could shatter bone and require amputation at four times the distance as the previous generation of weapons, from just twenty years earlier. With its jacketed hollow bottom, a looser minié ball could be inserted in the barrel of a weapon, (small or large) in less time, allowing for a much higher rate of fire. In addition, the lead jacketed skirt sealed with the barrel to diminish escaping gasses, increasing muzzle velocity exponentially. And remember many of these weapons were .58 to .78 caliber! Yet generals took the time to parade their men on to the fields, while within range of the enemy, to line up to be mowed down. Or generals marched their men into withering fire in direct frontal assaults, (attacks with no diversion, or often no leading bombardment.)

The most famous example of this, (beyond almost any engagement by the Irish Brigade during the war especially Marysville Heights at Fredericksburg, Md) was Pickets charge, or the Pickett-Pettigrew assault, almost 13,000 confederates in nine brigades suffered over 50% casualties on the last day of Gettysburg during a forced march attack into the strength of the Union line. The attack lasted just over 1/2 hour. As many as one quarter of the original Confederate combatants were taken prisoner, also.

The intent of this post was to correct an error, and to convey the horror and futility of this war. As, I believe this war was a contrivance of those who were unhappy with the political end of a process they instigated.

I agree he wasn't going to stop, until the North acquiesced or the South failed. It was the South's only real option since they weren't having any success in congress. Personally, I think the South's military commanders were superior to the North's. Most of the North's commanders were older and were very hesitant to initiate a battle, hence the reason Lincoln kept replacing them. Grant wasn't known to be a great strategist, but he wasn't stupid. He saw the superior numbers, supplies, logistics, etc. and just started putting on the squeeze coming in from three sides until he had Lee at Appomatax which I'm sure you already know. I think the most interesting fact of the entire war was that it started in Dr. McLeans farm. Knowing that the Battle of Manassas or Bull Run would be fought on his land, he moved his family to avoid the war only to have it end at his new home.

BTW.....Nice info on the weapons. I knew a little bit of that, but nothing like you do. Always nice to learn more.