U.S. Gov. v. NY Yankees

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NDAlumSon

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Alberto Gonzales needs to open an investigation into possible racketeering, extortion and/or corruption charges pertaining to the Bobby Abreu/Cory Lidle for 1 AAA and 3 A minor leaguers deal at the trading deadline.
How in the F**K is this an equitable deal for both sides, which the word TRADE implies? And how in the hell does the Phillies GM still have his job?
There's something stinking in the state of NY. And it ain't Jimmy Hoffa lying directly beneath
Johnny Damon's feet.
Investigate, Indict, Prosecute and Sentence Steinbrenner and Cashman !!!!!
 

BGIF

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For 86 years Red Sox fans screamed for an investigation about "The Babe" trade.

Sam Adams may be their local beer but baseball's their local whine.
 
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ShivaIrish

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I know the Yankee's have by far the largest payroll, but the Red Sox are usually not far behind (this year, 2nd or 3rd I think). So what about the fact that the Sox still have over 100 million more to spend than the small-clubs? I don't like the Yankees, I don't like the fact that they have way more money to spend, and usually get what they want. However, Abreau could have invoked his no-trade clause and voided the trade. Many players just seem to want to play there, even if it's not for more mony (although that is certainly a major factor often times).

It makes it all that much sweeter when the Twins win another one.
 

Subway Alum - MA

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Let me begin by saying, one of my criticisms of this site that I included in my comments to Svo when he was surveying opinions of Irish Envy was that I felt there were too many non-football and non-recruiting posts that had to be sifted through to find the information that I had signed on to find.
Nevertheless, I will offer my two-cents on this thread. The comment that, "The Red Sox are not far behind" is partly true. They usually rank second or third every year. However, the yearly difference between the Yankees and the next highest spending team is $60 million. That's right, the Yankees can spend $60 million more each year than any other team, including the Red Sox, and still make a profit. Why, because they derive an obscene revenue stream from their Yes network. Despite being one of the big spenders, compared to the Royals or Pirates, the Red Sox must exibit some fiscal restraint in their dealings (While they have increased NESN revenues, it will never approach that of the Yankees - New England's population vs. the New York City SMSA). Thats why they couldn't re-sign Pedro Martinez or Johnny Damon to a long-term contract (The Mets are another big-time spender with a Yes network cable money stream to the Yankees) or trading for Randy Johnson and giving him an extension. These deals are all similar in that the Yankees and Mets are paying for what these players can produce now, even if it means "eating the final years of their contracts." The Red Sox, on the other hand, must weigh the value of the contract over its entire length. The current management knows that, when money is involved, they cannot compete with the Yankees. So, their organizational philosophy is to develop a farm system. In this way, no matter how much money Mr. Steinbrenner has to throw around, you control players developed in your farm system for six years. Bringing up a steady stream of players from your farm system at a minimum salary frees up more money to be spend on selective free agents. The Yankees don't care about having to pay a large luxury tax every year (it gets larger incrementally, if each year you are a payee); while the Red Sox worry about the bottom line and try to stay within the low or no-pay category. Its no accident that Fenway Park ticket prices, with its relatively small seating capacity, are the highest - by far - in major league baseball. And the gap is going to get nothing but wider when the new stadium in New York opens.
I am from the Greater Boston area (North Shore, but actually grew up a Braves fan (as a "diminutive left-handed pitcher;" Warren Spahn was my idol). I was a charter member of the Knothole Gang, which allowed someone like myself, who came from a single-parent household with four, other syblings to attend a few games each year. I've followed them from Boston to Milwaukee to Atlanta. After Ted Turner sold the team to Times-Mirror, which coincided somewhat with the sale of the Yawkee estate to the present owners, I became a convert to "Red Sox Nation." So, I feel that I can be objective about the team. First, I laugh when I read about, " The Curse." The only curse surrounding the Red Sox was that of ownership. Sure, trading Babe Ruth was a colossal mistake (to obtain money to finance a broadway show!) but, if there was any curse, it was being owned by Tom Yawkey. Why? Because the Red Sox were the last team to sign a black or Latino player (They had opportunities to sign both Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays). He was from the South (Louisville, KY) and was a racist (Yet, he financed a wing of and was elected to Cooperstown!).
"Red Sox fans whine." Well, some may whine. That's not aa characteristic unique to Red Sox fans. However, most true baseball fans in this area marvel at how the Yankees have been able to survive the rash of injuries they have sustained this year and give them credit for still being able to stay in the pennant race (As Patriots fans, we certainly can empathize with this situation). Further, the reaction to the Yankee moves at the trading deadline in acquiring Bobby Abreau, Cory Liddle and Jack Wilson has been to give Brian Cashman and the organization credit for; while criticizing Theo Epstein for standing pat. The rationale they used was that they didn't want to give up any of their young talent but, as was mentioned above, the Yankees gave up no top-level minor league talent in that trade. The only "whining" I've read (Boston Globe) or heard (WEEI Sports Talk Radio) was about the Red Sox lack of activity!
Finally, I would be remiss if I didn't make a comparison between the replies following this initial posting and Notre Dame. Red Sox fans look at the Yankees in the same way that Fighting Irish fans look at the Trojans. We get frustrated when we lose players like Marc Tyler and James Wilson to "Pom Pom." We site the storied histoy of the football program, but kids today live for the moment. So, unfortunately, the situation won't change until Coach Weis can continue the progress begun last year and put together several, consecutive winning seasons and bowl appearances. Yankee fans, too, like to talk about their storied history. Young members of "Red Sox Nation" are quick to reply, "The Yankees have not won a World Series in the 21st Century!"
Now, lets get back to Notre Dame football and 2006 recruiting!!!!!!


Subway Alum - MA
ND Fan Since 1952
 
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Guest

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The knicks have the highest payroll and they're a last place team. For seven years the NY Rangers had the highest payroll and for seven years didn't make the playoffs. Money doesn't buy championships. What the Yankees do is not against the rules, they pay a fortune in luxury tax which many other teams just pocket. The Marlins and Royals for instance are pocketing the 15 million in luxury tax they received, thats not fair.

You can't have a payroll cap in baseball, it would ruin the game. A Payroll cap in football works because its such a spectator sport you can watch any team play, same in basketball though to a lesser degree. If you had a cap in baseball you'd run th chance of having the likes of Kansas City or the Brewers in the World Series year after year, who the hell would watch that? A World Series like that would bring in abysmal TV ratings. If baseball wants to survive in todays competitive TV market they have to have the major markets in it every year because like I said its really not a spectator sport like Football or Basketball. Its sad to say but the smaller market teams just need to be content with basically being minor league teams for the bigger market teams. Hopefully they play the game right like the A's or Twins have for years now.

There has been a lot of parity in baseball this year, a very high percentage of teams are still in the playoff race, moreso than any other year I can remember, this has a lot to do with the luxury tax, many smaller market teams have more money to resign players or invest in their minor league sytem, and it has worked.

As for the Abreu trade it really isn't adding anything to the Yankee payroll because Sheffield isn't going to be resigned after the season so the 15 million owed to Abreu next season will replace the 14 million Sheff makes. And lets not forget all the great players that have come up through the yankee system, Jeter, Posada, Williams, Cano, Rivera, Wang, etc.


p.s. You sound like a crybaby red sox fan because your team probably isn't goin to make the playoffs =)
 

jiggafini19

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The Yankees win the AL East, but you won't see them in the World Series.

Their spending is going to catch up to them fast. Their farm system is a turd and they've got quite a few 30-something millionaires on that team.

I love what Boston is doing. They have money, their farm system is loaded (Got Papelbon? Got Lester?) and they have one of the smartest front office men in all of sports, my personal hero Theo Epstein.

MLB is changing...the market, balance, all of it. The Yankees will always compete, but their dominance of the late 1990s will be very difficult to replicate again.
 
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Guest

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Oh yeah forget to mention that the baseball players union is by far the strongest union in any sport, those guys would sit out two years if they had to to avoid a cap in baseball.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Wow !
Didn't expect a diatribe.
It was merely a "player value" observation and its equity in regards to the deal itself, period.
That's it.
And I thought I posted it in the proper forum Subway.
IrishEnvy.com > Outside The Lines > The Leprechaun Lounge > SportsCenter
Sorry to waste your time.
 
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jiggafini19 said:
The Yankees win the AL East, but you won't see them in the World Series.

Their farm system is a turd and they've got quite a few 30-something millionaires on that team.
.

True the farm system isn't loaded, but they've turned out some good players recently, Wang, Cano(allstar this year), and Cabrera whose only 21 and has the potential to be a 300 plus avg hitter, Scott Proctor has become a sought after reliever, and the Yankess have a pitcher by the name of Phillip Hughs that they're very high on.

What impresses me most about this is that Wang, and Cano weren't major prospects yet they've become allstar caliber players in a short amount of time, this leads me to believe that the Yankees coaching and development in the minors must be superb.

The Mets I'm sad to say have a superb system right now, although the Scott Kazmir trade was completely dumb.
 

jiggafini19

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Depth wise, they're garbage in their system. Horrible. Every team has a couple of guys they're happy with.

Drew Henson must have skipped the coaching and development seminar. Just like Joe Borchard with the White Sox. Both should have gone the football route, but when stupid people put millions in signing bonus money in your face, it becomes tough to turn down.

Wang has been a total shock this year.

Does the Wang jersey sell well in NY?
 
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jiggafini19

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How Baseball America ranked the organizations heading into this season:

8. Boston - Improved pitching depth leads to quantum leap forward.
17. Yankees- Premium talent on hand, but Yankees’ top prospects have yet to venture beyond A-ball.
22. Phillies - Jim Thome trade nets pair of lefties who can step in if top prospect Cole Hamels gets hurt again (I believe he did and they traded Haigwood already)
28. Mets- It’s Lastings Milledge, Mike Pelfrey and a lot of players who wouldn’t make other teams’ top 10s.
 
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NDAlumSon

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As much as I hate postseason awards like MVP, Comeback Player of the Year, and the like.
(they're all way too vague and subjective) Joe Torre should win Manager of the Year by keeping that walking M*A*S*H unit at the top of their division and in the top five in baseball.
I for the life of me cannot figure out how they keep winning. If ever Jeter had a case for MVP, this should be the year.
 

jiggafini19

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Alumson, lets look at who is still playing:

Rodriguez, Jeter, Cano, Giambi, Posada, Damon PLUS Mussina and Johnson in their rotation and Mariano Rivera on the back end.

Joe Torre has nothing to do with that. Those guys are all very good players.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Oh, no doubt about it. They've got the horses. But when Matsui and Sheff went down and
Randy Johnson couldn't throw a strike and Damon broke a bone in his foot and tweaked his back and Chacon was getting shelled, and their bullpen sucked, it all could have unraveled pretty quickly.
Fortunately for them, they got "out-of their-asses" performances from guys like Melky, Phillips, Crosby, et. al. and the ever calm and reaasuring presence of Torre to guide them through the rough seas.
 

jiggafini19

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They score runs. Bottom line. Third in MLB even with all that you just mentioned. They're behind the White Sox and Red Sox.

Scoring runs and preventing runs are all that counts. Joe Torre probably isn't worth nearly as many wins as people give him credit for. Prior to the Yankees, he wasn't much in STL or with the Mets.

Average age of 32 years old and no farm system means a big overhaul is coming soon.
 

absoluteirish59

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NDAlumSon said:
Alberto Gonzales needs to open an investigation into possible racketeering, extortion and/or corruption charges pertaining to the Bobby Abreu/Cory Lidle for 1 AAA and 3 A minor leaguers deal at the trading deadline.
How in the F**K is this an equitable deal for both sides, which the word TRADE implies? And how in the hell does the Phillies GM still have his job?
There's something stinking in the state of NY. And it ain't Jimmy Hoffa lying directly beneath
Johnny Damon's feet.
Investigate, Indict, Prosecute and Sentence Steinbrenner and Cashman !!!!!
It's called a salary dump.
 
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jiggafini19 said:
How Baseball America ranked the organizations heading into this season:

8. Boston - Improved pitching depth leads to quantum leap forward.
17. Yankees- Premium talent on hand, but Yankees’ top prospects have yet to venture beyond A-ball.
22. Phillies - Jim Thome trade nets pair of lefties who can step in if top prospect Cole Hamels gets hurt again (I believe he did and they traded Haigwood already)
28. Mets- It’s Lastings Milledge, Mike Pelfrey and a lot of players who wouldn’t make other teams’ top 10s.

The Mets system has developed some good talent of late though with wright, reyes, and heilmen, not to mention scott kazmir.

The Yankees system took a hit when third basmen prospect Eric Duncan struggled in triple A ball and got send back to double A. He was considered a top prospect last year, but now he's only considered a decent prospect.

The Yankees staff can get young quick if they sign Zito in the offseason, and Hughes is as good as advertised. That would give them 3 young pitchers in Zito, Wang, and maybe Hughes.
 
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Guest

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ESPN just reported that the Red Sox are in trade talks for catcher Javy Lopez because Varitek is out.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Yup. Signed, sealed and should be delivered to St. Petersburg for the first game of a three game set against the Rays starting tonight.
We'll take him.
Now if Beckett would just stop serving up long balls !
 

jiggafini19

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Hasn't he been DH in Baltimore for a couple of years?

Boston's rotation is a Glass Managerie waiting to happen. Will Papelbon be a starter next year?
 
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NDAlumSon

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Yea they mis-signed and mis-used Javy in Baltimore.
Angelos is not the brightest bulb in baseball.
Javy is definitely on the down side of a pretty good career, but he's got a nice stroke and can still hit for power.
Schilling is solid.
Beckett is becoming predictable. 97mph fastball or curve. That's it. Sit dead red and your going to be right at least 50% of the time.
David Wells a collapse waiting to happen.
Timmy Wakefield hairline fracture of a rib and on DL.
Kiddie Corp bullpen, albeit talented and live arms.
Papelbon keeping us in the race. Starter or closer next year?. I think depends on free agents they pick up in offseason. AL rookie of the year though.
But, with all that said, in Theo and Tito I trust.
 

jiggafini19

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G6rgxy9J.jpg


"No, Jigga. YOU are MY hero, man."
 
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NDAlumSon

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Jigga send me your resume. Of course you'll have to clear a background check first.
Rumor has it your loyalties lie elsewhere. We'll have to check that out first.
We don't need no moles around here.
Cordially, Theo Epstein aka "Wunderkind"
 
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Subway Alum - MA

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Yankee Trade Update

Yankee Trade Update

As someone mentioned earlier, the Abreau, Lidle trade was indeed a salary dump. After my earlier post, I had a conversation with # 1 son who works in sports media. What happened was that the Red Sox were also involved in the trade talks for Abreau (Trot Nixon is also on the injured list). When you make trades for players that have big contracts and other years on the contract; the more money the trading team is willing to eat, the higher the level of the prospects they get in return. The Yankees were glad to take the remaining percentage (about one-third) of Abreau's $16.5 salary for this year and next. Because of the payroll luxury tax, which the Yankees have been over for the past three years, that will also include a 50% penalty. This means that the Yankees will actually be paying him $25 million next season. The Red Sox were willing to offer higher-level, more major-league ready prospects if the Phillies would pick up a portion of his salary. They chose not too. So, rather than be over the payroll luxury tax, the Red Sox withdraw from the trade talks. As of right now, the Yankees salary totals are $207 million. The Red Sox are at $130 million.
In my earlier post, I attempted to point out that the Yankees financial advantage is that they have more flexibility to take chances than other teams attempting to maintain fiscal responsibility. They have to get full value for the entire length of the contract.. The Yankees can pay for today, knowing that the player may be unproductive and essentially stealing the money by the time they reach the final year of the contract.
I was not trying to minimize the fact that have still made some excellent moves at the trading deadline, while the Red Sox have basically stood pat. I was merely trying to point out that they can operate differently on what is essentially an unlimitted budget. Steinbrenner supports reaches And yes, they are doing it within the rules of baseball.
Ironically, the Red Sox are attempting to follow the Braves model of building through the farm system and, unlike previous administrations are refusing to trade top- level prospects such as Papelbom, Lester, Hanson, DelCarman, Pedroia and Ellsbury. They have control over these players for six years before they are eligible for free agency and big salaries. So, they have put monies and emphasis into scouting. If they can funnel two or three rookies into the lineup each year, it frees up more money to spend on selective free agents within their budget structure. However, they have a much narrower margin of error than the Yankees.
In summary, the Yankees are able to employ a strategy that allows them to go all out (financially) and sign free agents for the short term and stay in the pennant race every year. The Red Sox are attempting to stay competitive through player development. This will allow them to remain competitive over the long term within their financial structure.
Hopefully, I've been able to clarify my earlier points.

Subway Alum - MA
ND Fan Since 1952
 
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