Better recruiter: Holtz or Weis??

[lattedatte]

It's too early to tell but I'm almost ready to pass the torch.. If we land Tate and Benn, and with Kumara in the fold, Ragone, you have to say Weis was able to pull off what Holtz wasn't, weapons to go with a freak QB. But hard to argue with that

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

It's too early to tell but I'm almost ready to pass the torch.. If we land Tate and Benn, and with Kumara in the fold, Ragone, you have to say Weis was able to pull off what Holtz wasn't, weapons to go with a freak QB. But hard to argue with that

Definitely too early to tell...I don't think I could even begin to make a guess at this.

However, Weis is definitely up to par so far...let's see how he continues it.

 

[KMac151993]

You fail to remember Holtz at one point had these players at RB for him: Bettis, Rocket (when he wasnt playing WR), Tony Brooks, Watters, and Dorsey Levens. Not including someone like Reggie Brooks who was playing DB at that time. I don't think we will ever see the kind of talent they had around 1990 ever again....just too hard to assemble.

 

[BGIF]

You fail to remember Holtz ...

wasn't the recruiter, Vinny Cerrato was.

Cerrato was a full time Recruiting Coordinator. His last class graduated ND in '93, the last great OLine among others. Some of his guys played in '94 but the talent level at ND dropped precipitously after Vinny left.

And Holtz NEVER recruited the way Weis does. If he had the '94, '95, and '96 teams would have had substantially better records and Davie would never have had a job opportunity.

The NCAA essentially abolished the full time recruiter position by mandating the number of assistants and restricting off campus visits to position coaches. After Cutcliffe had his heart attack, Powlus could not step in to replace him even on an interim basis until the NCAA approved the temporary move. In his current position Powlus handles on campus aspects of recruiting but doesn't travel to high schools or combines to evaluate talent.

I don't think we will ever see the kind of talent they had around 1990 ever again....just too hard to assemble.

Again the kind of talent ND had around '90 were Cerrato's kids but Frank Leahy's incoming class in '46 is considered the all time best haul.

Four undefeated seasons, 36-0-2, the two ties were 0-0 with then #1 Army in '46, and 14-14 with #3 USC in '48.
3 National Championships 46,'47, and '49,
the '49 Heisman Winner RE/DE Leon Hart , a 60 minute man; QB Williams and FB Sitko finished 5th and 8th that year.
Har, Williams, Sitko, and Tackle Jim Martin were First Team All-Americans.
13 ND players were drafted by the NFL in the '50 draft, Hart was the First Player Selected.

 

[BGIF]

It's a little difficult to compare Holtz to Weis head to head because of Cerrato as a full time recruitier. Holtz also had an edge as an experienced head coach with a winning record before he came to ND. Weis started from scratch.

Comparing Holtz in the later years (after Cerrato) to Weis, Weis gets the edge hands down. Weis is a tireless traveller year round. Holtz was essentially a in-home closer. Without Cerrato to set up, The Closer, there was a lot less to close and a lot less talent closed.

Joe Moore was brought in talent on his reputation not by active participation in the recruiting process. Compare OLs from in the Holtz/Cerrato years (up to '93 guys) with the OLs that came in with Moore alone.

Can any of you name ND coach noted for recruiting during the post Cerrto Holtz era?

Weis selected assistants with recruiting in mind. And he requires them to do no less than what he does himself.

And when Holtz had health problems and his wife had them, recruiting suffered. Weis also has family demands but he and his TEAM take care of families and business.

 

[bayernarsch]

can't make the comparison...different time=different process

can't make the comparison...different time=different process

As has been noted here, Holtz had the advantage of a full time recruiter in Cerrato (and from the stories I heard, Cerrato was willing to do whatever it took to land top recruits away from other power programs during the late- 'go-go' 80's). Since Weis does not have this at his disposal, it is really unfair to compare the recruiting prowess of the two.

Also consider that other rules of the recruiting game have changed dramatically. The emergence of mid-major conferences and 'super' conferences since the time that Holtz was recruiting has meant that recruiting is now a much more competitive overall environment, since more schools can offer exposure to high school kids at the college level. This is abudantly evident in the fact that despite Gerry Faust's poor record on the field, Notre Dame still had great recruiting classes leading up to the Holtz era. Compare that to the overall quality of the classes brought into ND in the years prior to Coach Weis and it is clear that the recruiting process is very different today than 20 years ago.

With that said, I remember the incoming class with which I entered ND (graduating class of '93), and there were guys who never were full time starters at ND who had long NFL careers (Junior Bryant comes to mind). We were loaded! Because he's doing things the right way, I believe coach Weis is leading Notre Dame back in that direction.

 

[lattedatte]

Yeah, I tend to agree with the general tone of all the responses, tough to compare. But one thing for sure that isn't different, we are again recruiting with the best like we did in the late 80's early 90's.

 

[jiggafini19]

Weis selected assistants with recruiting in mind. And he requires them to do no less than what he does himself.

It was evident when he selected his staff and we got to read their bios. Without question.

Cerrato and Holtz never got to text message anyone. Imagine what might have been...

 

[irish4life99]

It was evident when he selected his staff and we got to read their bios. Without question.

Cerrato and Holtz never got to text message anyone. Imagine what might have been...

I heard the NCAA is in the process of writing new policies that restrict the use of text messaging.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

It was evident when he selected his staff and we got to read their bios. Without question.

Cerrato and Holtz never got to text message anyone. Imagine what might have been...

Bob Chmiel just wrote a good article about this in B&G...the whole recruiting process. He talked about how evaluations would be sent to coaches, etc...

Basically, recruiting is at a completely different level now. A completely different process...so much more advanced now than ever before.

 

[Dannyboy Ayers]

with the way scouting as developed you can look at a lot more kids and see more of there ability better than you used to be able to and the players are a lot more freakish i feel that there is more talent out there than there used to be. mainly because of scouting now. I think it is unfair to compare recruiting of diferant eras.

 

[irishfan81]

Way to early to tell. Lou has a huge advantage.