Judges Should Be Held Accountable for Their Sentencing

[dbldomer]

Then I suppose I'm just a bad Catholic. Either way, I'll fight for my way. I'm 17, I've got plenty of years ahead of me, and politics is one field I may pursue.

If you would like to be a good Catholic, or just wanted more understanding of the underlying issue of your original topic, sexual assault, I would suggest volunteering at a rape counciling center or taking the neccesary classes to become an advocate in your state before you speak as to what is best for the victim.

 

[irishwavend]

Jesus came in and erased the Old Testament, or meant to. And good riddance, I say. The God in the OT was as cruel as the people in it.

Actually, that is a common misconception. Jesus did bring just consequences to those who deserved them. He also was not as mild mannered as a lot of people make him out to be. In my studies, I argue that this liberal ideology of peace with out consequence and absolute forgiveness is actually contrary to the Bible & its teachings both old and new.

To really understand what I am saying, you have to put Jesus' words in the context of the time and the other events happening historically around Jesus. To just understand what the Bible says and nothing else means that you are putting Jesus' words into the context of the world we currently inhabit, which would be unwise. That would be like taking Martin Luther King's, Abraham Lincoln's or Winston Churchill's words and putting them in a book without discussing what the social climate was surrounding them or their words/actions. Then, what context would you have to compare those words to? Your own world that you inhabit, not theirs.

The words of the new testament do not negate everything from the Old Testament.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Well Fitzgerald, if you can't keep a civil tone, let's just end it there.

If you would like to be a good Catholic, or just wanted more understanding of the underlying issue of your original topic, sexual assault, I would suggest volunteering at a rape counciling center or taking the neccesary classes to become an advocate in your state before you speak as to what is best for the victim.

Taking the moral upper-hand, huh?

 

[Fitzgerald]

Civility with a persistent idiot is pointless. Age some, and get back to me.

And to the guy who's spinning Jesus as a hawk, puh-leaze. It's not liberal to say that Jesus was a peaceful, almost Buddhist, guy. He was. That's not "reading it out of context." That's reading it. I'd love to hear your spin, though, and how you could reconcile all Jesus said, and did, and was, with the monstrous God of the Old Testament.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

So yes, I want all rapists executed (with the few exceptions being those with shades of gray), but I also understand that that's not very pragmatic.

So what about those who are found to be innocent after via DNA testing?

Are they simply unfortunate casualties of a process?

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

So what about those who are found to be innocent after via DNA testing?

Are they simply unfortunate casualties of a process?

I don't think I was clear enough, but I covered it here:

(with the few exceptions being those with shades of gray)

By 'shades of gray' I meant cases in which there isn't a shred of doubt about the defendant's guilt.

Civility with a persistent idiot is pointless. Age some, and get back to me.

That's a great one, I've heard it before, too. My favorite part of your 'teachings' was how you took exception to the Allied forces waging war against Nazi Germany. Suddenly your 'killing is wrong' stance fails to appear so absolute. So why is it that you select rapists to defend? To quote you, the wise Fitzgerald, "puh-leaze".

And btw, you never did answer whether you have ever been in a prison cell.

 

[dankus]

Catholics are christian but christians are not Catholic.

The vatican is clear that the value of life is paramount and is against capital punishment.

This view is incomplete.

Not all Catholics are Roman Catholic, and not call Catholics follow the teachings of the Vatican(Traditionalist anyone?).

do you (pro-killing rapists) want all rapists to be given death sentences?

Not initially. If they can be rehabilitated, than of course not. If they can't and they continue to be a detriment and harm society, than I think it is perfectly justified.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't think I was clear enough, but I covered it here:

By 'shades of gray' I meant cases in which there isn't a shred of doubt about the defendant's guilt.

Well, in theory that's how capital punishment works. And yet in the 20th Century over 120 men were exhonerated after their executions.

 

[irishnd31]

So you don't know what you're talking about, then. Moral authority or not, it's common knowledge that rapists, especially child rapists, go through Hell in prison, even moreso than everyone else does. And what does "once released" have to do with prison? You said reminiscing and having "joy" in prison. And no one does. It's not an assumption. It's fact. Go read up on the subject.




No, it's entirely a matter of retribution in nearly all instances. Or, if there's fear, it's entirely illogical and so should be dismissed. I certainly don't think that because a victim may be illogically afraid of the same total stranger raping them again "should he get out," a guy should be killed. It makes no sense at all.




Idiotic.




How many instances are there of rapists who'd not known their victims before raping them ever raping them again? Give me numbers. I'm fairly confident that 0 will be the number.




Your guess is as idiotic as all your other guesses, which is what everything you say is, pretty much. A guess. You don't seem to know anything or to base anything on real information. It's all just wild nonsense from a 17 year old.

Why don't you ease up there "all knowing Fitzgerald". For a 17 year old, he's got his head on straight and has not resorted to name calling (which seems to be something that you need to do to make yourself feel better or smarter). Just cause you have your opinions doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you.

 

[punishment]

For all this talk of killing rapists, I think people need to keep in mind just how easy it is to be accused of rape. And once you get accused, you pretty much get treated like a rapist. (If you need proof, just look at the Mark Sanchez thread in this forum)

I can almost guarantee you, that almost everyone of you will know a rapist at some point. It doesn't take much. All it takes is a couple of drinks at a party and some regrets.

And getting a rape conviction is a bit of a toss-up. It usually depends, among other things, how believeable the witness is. Take a look at the Duke situation, the witness not too believeable with the accusations made about her by other dancers. And the Kobe situation, not too believable also because it came out that the witness had a bit of a reputation in town.

But killing them, yeesh. What's next, life sentences for people who repeatedly steal comic books from the pharmacy. (I hope this law would not apply retroactively )

 

[dankus]

For all this talk of killing rapists, I think people need to keep in mind just how easy it is to be accused of rape. And once you get accused, you pretty much get treated like a rapist. (If you need proof, just look at the Mark Sanchez thread in this forum)

This couldn't be closer to the truth. A girl simply can alledge rape and the wheels get turning, with or without evidence. However getting indicted and going to court is much more difficult.

 

[punishment]

This couldn't be closer to the truth. A girl simply can alledge rape and the wheels get turning, with or without evidence. However getting indicted and going to court is much more difficult.

This is true, and I did reference it in my prior post. But, something like 80% of rapes are committed by a perpetrator who knows the victim. And these essentially become a he said/she said scenario. Whether it was consensual or not, traces of intercourse will be there. So it becomes a question of who do you believe the most.

I'm assuming though that most people here are talking about the situation where the victim and perpetrator do not know each other. In a situation like that, it is much easier to get a conviction, and pretty much a guarantee. But still, death?

 

[guff]

And good riddance, I say. The God in the OT was as cruel as the people in it.

Going against my better judgement I'm wading to the religious side of this debate. I will go no deeper than wading.

I was always under the impression that Jesus and "Old Testament" God were the same person - "...begotten not made one in being with the Father." to borrow a phrase. At least that what Sister Linus taught long long ago.

I now take my waders off and head safely to the shore.

On to the political component of this debate. Judges absolutely need to be held accountable for their decisions. But how can we hold them accountable? Many are appointed or elected to lifetime terms. If not lifetime terms, then terms of office are rather long. And then they run for retention (Ballot question: Should Judge Softy keep his seat?) and not re-election. It makes quite easy for the electorate to forget the judges bad decisions and also requires a campaign against someone as opposed to for an opponent.

The most outrageous judicial decision of late was made in Nebraska - Judge said that a child molester was too short to deal with the physical demands of prison. Scumbag molested a 12 year girl and is too short for prison? Even the ACLU said that was nutty. If I were the father of that child I would likely correct the injustice myself.

 

[irishwavend]

I will continue with Guff's analogy and say that, while I did wade into the water, too; I am going to let a more divine subject allow me to walk on water by returning my thoughts & discussion to Irish Football, Charlie Weis, and the beasts that inhabit the campus of Notre Dame in their pajama pants and sweats...those same beasts that take solice and comfort in the nutritional value of The Yo-Cream Machine. (I do hope most of our readership is Male...haha...Wait...why do I think that? Should I be worried that I am not gonna get any from an ND girl? Now, there is a question to ponder... 1.) Do ND girls even put out AND 2.) If they do, do you really want a piece of that.) Ok...that is just cruel so I will state my disclaimer: My words are only said in Jest as I have dated and hooked up with a number of Irish Ladies..... b/c of Boat Club & Penny Pitchers...

 

[punishment]

My words are only said in Jest as I have dated and hooked up with a number of Irish Ladies..... b/c of Boat Club & Penny Pitchers...

Just admit it, you had a couple of Linebacker hook-ups that you are afraid to admit.

People are always willing to admit to Boat Club & Penny Pitchers hook-ups, but never to hook-ups at the 'backer. I wonder why? Well, I don't really wonder, I know why, and frankly, I can't blame anyone for not wanting to admit it. backer!! backer!!

 

[dankus]

I was always under the impression that Jesus and "Old Testament" God were the same person - "...begotten not made one in being with the Father." to borrow a phrase. At least that what Sister Linus taught long long ago.

This is the most common belief, but not the only one in Catholicism, or Christianity for that matter.

 

[Fitzgerald]

Why don't you ease up there "all knowing Fitzgerald". For a 17 year old, he's got his head on straight and has not resorted to name calling (which seems to be something that you need to do to make yourself feel better or smarter). Just cause you have your opinions doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you.

He's got his head on straight? He wants rapists to be given the death penalty. But he's got his head on straight? Give me a break. All his posts indicate is that he's ill-informed, bloodthirsty,a bad Christian, and completely unashamed of it. If you think he's got his head on straight, you're just as bad as he is. Have fun with that.

Two other things -

1. To say Jesus was the same God as the one in Old Testament is just inexplicable. Just read the books. Everything Jesus says and does is in direct opposition to the God of the Old Testament, who was a fairytale character - an attempt by simpler people to explain away the cruelty they saw in the universe, by making their God cruel. There was no Satan yet, and God had to cover everything.

2. There's no way to spin Jesus as a conservative or a hawk or anything else like that. It's funny when it's tried, because it's so impossible. He was a radical in the truest sense. He was a proto-liberal - the only similar person I can think of to compare him to, in modern history, is Henry David Thoreau. So - not a conservative, or conservative in any way. Not even religious - just pious. The Quakers were also very Jesus-like.


And I don't know what the kid is trying to say with the World War 2 comments. It's very simplistic. Was World War 2 right? No. It wasn't. It was necessary but how can it ever be right to have to shoot other people? At best, it's "a little less wrong." But you ask some World War 2 soldiers and I don't think they'd gloat or brag or say they were heroes. They wish they hadn't had to do it, and they wish that because it was a horrible thing to have to do. It wasn't right at all. Necessary doesn't mean right.

Killing is always wrong, and if you don't believe that, once again, I say you're not a Christian.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

At best Fitzgerald, you're retardedly naive. I think it's very easy to stick to your 'touchy feely' convictions when you're stuck in a bubble. You probably should see evil in its truest form before you defend it. There's a whole world beyond Hobart, Indiana.

For now, I'll search for an argumentative essay on the death penalty that I had to read for my AP Language/Comp class... it's one of the better articles I've come across in my life.

It was necessary but how can it ever be right to have to shoot other people?

And who gets to decide when killing is necessary? If you delve into more wars, for instance, you'll find it gets complicated.

At best, it's "a little less wrong.

I'm sure by your definition the American Revolution was entirely unjustified. Lifestyles cannot possibly necessitate killing or make it 'less wrong'. So wipe out American democracy, because why couldn't we just get along with King George? Or to take it even further, who the hell gave Michael Collins and Eamon deValera the right to fight the Brits? Killing to end your status as a second class citizen is never justified. So in that sense, let's give Ireland back to Britain and lets put the Irish-Catholics back in their rightful place.

Killing isn't 2-dimensional. You can't say it's wrong 100% of the time; the world is not that simple. I think it would be much harder to kill an 18 year-old German soldier in WWII than it ever would be to kill a rapist; people can get caught up in war by being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. But rapists choose to defy society and they choose their lifestyle. And they choose to hurt people.

Society works via reciprocation. If you respect others, you will see the benefits. If you don't, you'll see the consequences. That's life.

 

[guff]

This is the exact reason why my better judgement told me not to enter into this debate.

1. To say Jesus was the same God as the one in Old Testament is just inexplicable.

It is not inexplicable. It is what every Catholic believes. That little quote I posted previously is taken directly from the Nicene Creed. The Creed that is recited at the Celebration of the Mass. For Catholics it is not a matter of debate. We believe in the Divine Mystery of the Holy Trinity - three persons in one God - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is our collective faith. Do not insult it by calling that belief inexplicable or a fairy tale.

We Catholics have our faith, you have yours. I didn't insult your beliefs. Don't you dare insult mine.

If you would like to read it...Nicene Creed

If you would like a complete understanding for the basis of the Catholic faith and it's position on just about everything you can read it here Catechism of the Catholic Church

 

[dbldomer]

This is the exact reason why my better judgement told me not to enter into this debate.



It is not inexplicable. It is what every Catholic believes. That little quote I posted previously is taken directly from the Nicene Creed. The Creed that is recited at the Celebration of the Mass. For Catholics it is not a matter of debate. We believe in the Divine Mystery of the Holy Trinity - three persons in one God - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is our collective faith. Do not insult it by calling that belief inexplicable or a fairy tale.

We Catholics have our faith, you have yours. I didn't insult your beliefs. Don't you dare insult mine.

If you would like to read it...Nicene Creed

If you would like a complete understanding for the basis of the Catholic faith and it's position on just about everything you can read it here Catechism of the Catholic Church

Is that the up to date version because apparently the translation is going to be changed for the creed.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060616/ap_on_re_us/catholic_bishops_mass

 

[Irish Legend]

This is the exact reason why my better judgement told me not to enter into this debate.



It is not inexplicable. It is what every Catholic believes. That little quote I posted previously is taken directly from the Nicene Creed. The Creed that is recited at the Celebration of the Mass. For Catholics it is not a matter of debate. We believe in the Divine Mystery of the Holy Trinity - three persons in one God - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is our collective faith. Do not insult it by calling that belief inexplicable or a fairy tale.

We Catholics have our faith, you have yours. I didn't insult your beliefs. Don't you dare insult mine.

If you would like to read it...Nicene Creed

If you would like a complete understanding for the basis of the Catholic faith and it's position on just about everything you can read it here Catechism of the Catholic Church

Thank you Guff!

Also a good Catechism that is easy to read and comprehend is "My Catholic Faith". Basically the Catholic faith explained.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...104-2254600-3532740?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

 

[irishnd31]

He's got his head on straight? He wants rapists to be given the death penalty. But he's got his head on straight? Give me a break. All his posts indicate is that he's ill-informed, bloodthirsty,a bad Christian, and completely unashamed of it. If you think he's got his head on straight, you're just as bad as he is. Have fun with that.

Two other things -

1. To say Jesus was the same God as the one in Old Testament is just inexplicable. Just read the books. Everything Jesus says and does is in direct opposition to the God of the Old Testament, who was a fairytale character - an attempt by simpler people to explain away the cruelty they saw in the universe, by making their God cruel. There was no Satan yet, and God had to cover everything.

2. There's no way to spin Jesus as a conservative or a hawk or anything else like that. It's funny when it's tried, because it's so impossible. He was a radical in the truest sense. He was a proto-liberal - the only similar person I can think of to compare him to, in modern history, is Henry David Thoreau. So - not a conservative, or conservative in any way. Not even religious - just pious. The Quakers were also very Jesus-like.


And I don't know what the kid is trying to say with the World War 2 comments. It's very simplistic. Was World War 2 right? No. It wasn't. It was necessary but how can it ever be right to have to shoot other people? At best, it's "a little less wrong." But you ask some World War 2 soldiers and I don't think they'd gloat or brag or say they were heroes. They wish they hadn't had to do it, and they wish that because it was a horrible thing to have to do. It wasn't right at all. Necessary doesn't mean right.

Killing is always wrong, and if you don't believe that, once again, I say you're not a Christian.

Sorry for having an opinion enlightened one.