Demetrius Jones WR? Not so fast.

[weisfaninmass]

To those who have already moved Demetrius Jones to WR and given the baton to Frazer (or want Mustain to commit), read the following:

BCS Bowl Winning QB's:
Vince Young, Michael Robinson, Troy Smith, Pat White.

They all are multi-dimensional QB's. Let's hope that DJs shoulder is fine.

 

[jiggafini19]

I posted the EXACT same thing the thread about the SC-Texas game.

I attempted to give you rep points but could not.

With Aldridge and a game breaking WR, Weis could have the pieces in place to revolutionize the ND offense even more than he already has.

He's improving the team speed with his first class. They're on the right track.

 

[scooper]

jigg, it looks like our DJ bandwagon has a little more fuel after this past week. Climb aboard, weisfan.

 

[jiggafini19]

jigg, it looks like our DJ bandwagon has a little more fuel after this past week. Climb aboard, weisfan.

Sorry, but I'll be on the Vince Young wagon for the rest of the week.

I'll catch you guys Monday on the 7 AM D Jones Express.

 

[weisfaninmass]

the key is that these guys are bringing so much more to the dance than just their legs......Troy Smith hit all his receivers on target as did Young. And then on 3rd or 4th down, when the D brings on the heat, these guys just flat out create plays out of nothing - with their legs and arm.

 

[scooper]

the key is that these guys are bringing so much more to the dance than just their legs......Troy Smith hit all his receivers on target as did Young. And then on 3rd or 4th down, when the D brings on the heat, these guys just flat out create plays out of nothing - with their legs and arm.

Exactly. I've heard people say "but Weis loves dropback passers."

Two points: 1. That's all he's ever had. I think he's proven his ability and willingness to switch styles. Look at his power game with Dillon in NE versus the prior years.

2. Athletic QB's and good drop back passers are not mutually exclusive. Sure, Young killed with his running, but he was also a very efficient passer. He threw many great passes all season long while standing in the pocket. He looked comfortable there. He didn't have the nation's highest efficiency rating for nothing.

Folks, check out Jones' passing numbers. They are not as big as guys in a stand back and sling it offense, but they are so efficient it's scary.

 

[jiggafini19]

This is the way of the future. Ten years ago, there weren't this many athletic passers out there. Ten years from now, the ledfooted drop back passer is going to go out with Zubaz sweatpants and Beta tapes.

On the flipside, some defensive coordinator will design a package that can control guys like this. What helps is having a middle linebacker that can move and get to guys like Smith, Young, etc. This is why Urlacher punishes Vick when they play.

Toryan Smith is a guy that can be capable of this. And with Richardson on the outside, things are looking good.

 

[irishtexan]

So with teams going after more of "athlete" type quarterbacks instead of the old ball and chain drop back passers, do you guys think we are going to see the option make a resurgance back into college football?

 

[jiggafini19]

So with teams going after more of "athlete" type quarterbacks instead of the old ball and chain drop back passers, do you guys think we are going to see the option make a resurgance back into college football?

I don't think so. I think you're going to see a lot of what you saw last night.

Guys like this in the shotgun with three WR spreading things out so they can run or chuck it down field.

The ability of some of these players now is incredible. When we played against Culpepper in college, I remember standing there on that beautfiul September Florida day and thinking to myself, "That guy could start at offensive tackle for us. And he's playing QB."

Give it a few decades and there will be 300 pound sprinters.

 

[bigdon]

jigg, it looks like our DJ bandwagon has a little more fuel after this past week. Climb aboard, weisfan.

I've been on that wagon since he committed. As I've posted a number of times I believe he is the next ND QB.

 

[irish4life99]

We had the same thing years ago. Remember Cunningham? Dual QB's go in and out of favor. These types of QB's have success in College, but very few have the same success in the NFL. Their longevity in the NFL is usually cut short due to injuries. With that said; I think Vince Young is one of them that will be very successful in the NFL. I loved how they springled in the option on offense. I would like us to have a QB that can run, and use the option in a limited way.

 

[Irishkid23]

Frazer

Frazer

Scout at the AA Game said Frazer was faster than they had previously thought. That he had football speed. I am certain that Mendoza will make him a bit quicker, yet.

Yes, Jones is good. But, Weis likes a dropback passer, and that is Frazer. If Young goes to the NFL, once he gets a real licking, say by Urlacher and company, he won't be running as much.

Remember, Cutliffe and Weis both agreed that Frazer was the guy. Two football QB whizzes liked Frazer. I assume it is because he must have a great upside.

There must be an underlying reason why he's their No. 1. Don't sell him short based on this multi-threat style QB. It may or may not be the wave of the future.

 

[weisfaninmass]

Remember, Cutliffe and Weis both agreed that Frazer was the guy. Two football QB whizzes liked Frazer. I assume it is because he must have a great upside.
There must be an underlying reason why he's their No. 1. Don't sell him short based on this multi-threat style QB. It may or may not be the wave of the future.

Couple of things:
1. Help me recollect where and when Weis (and Cutliffe) said that Frazer is his #1 and thus Jones isn't? Coaches - i believe - can't comment on players until after they have officially signed! Plus Weis would never hand anyone the job with them earning it on the field.

2. You raise a good point about not selling Frazer short. The point I was making with this post is don't sell Jones out to WR - let him compete. I have no idea who will win out.

Additionally, it is good to here about Frazer speed. We need to be careful not to stereotype Jones as the multifacted QB bc he his black and Frazer a drop back only bc he is white. A couple of the best alltime mobile QBs are Steve Young and Elway. And Warren Moon, Doug Williams and several others were pretty amazing in the pocket.

 

[bigdon]

Couple of things:
1. Help me recollect where and when Weis (and Cutliffe) said that Frazer is his #1 and thus Jones isn't? Coaches - i believe - can't comment on players until after they have officially signed! Plus Weis would never hand anyone the job with them earning it on the field.
2. You raise a good point about not selling Frazer short. The point I was making with this post is don't sell Jones out to WR - let him compete. I have no idea who will win out.
Additionally, it is good to here about Frazer speed. We need to be careful not to stereotype Jones as the multifacted QB bc he his black and Frazer a drop back only bc he is white. A couple of the best alltime mobile QBs are Steve Young and Elway. And Warren Moon, Doug Williams and several others were pretty amazing in the pocket.

You are right about coaches not being able to comment. If I remember correctly, Frazer himself procalimed that Weis told him he was the NO 1 choice.

So that we can move on let's all agree that Jones is NOT going to be shuttled out to WR.

 

[BigIrish]

even more simply put - jones has no greater or lesser chance of playing a different position in college than any of the twenty-something other recruits we have committed to this class.

 

[Irish Legend]

Scout at the AA Game said Frazer was faster than they had previously thought. That he had football speed. I am certain that Mendoza will make him a bit quicker, yet.
Yes, Jones is good. But, Weis likes a dropback passer, and that is Frazer. If Young goes to the NFL, once he gets a real licking, say by Urlacher and company, he won't be running as much.
Remember, Cutliffe and Weis both agreed that Frazer was the guy. Two football QB whizzes liked Frazer. I assume it is because he must have a great upside.
There must be an underlying reason why he's their No. 1. Don't sell him short based on this multi-threat style QB. It may or may not be the wave of the future.

Amen!!

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

So with teams going after more of "athlete" type quarterbacks instead of the old ball and chain drop back passers, do you guys think we are going to see the option make a resurgance back into college football?

I think that the option is sure to make a resurgance with more athletic quarterbacks. It just makes sense. But, I don't think it will be as popular of a play as it has been in the past.

 

[irishtexan]

I would love to see it come back. In my opinion the triple option is the hardest offense to stop. If you have a team that has talent and can execute it great (Nebraska '95) then you are unstoppable.

 

[Irishkid23]

Couple of things:
1. Help me recollect where and when Weis (and Cutliffe) said that Frazer is his #1 and thus Jones isn't? Coaches - i believe - can't comment on players until after they have officially signed! Plus Weis would never hand anyone the job with them earning it on the field.
2. You raise a good point about not selling Frazer short. The point I was making with this post is don't sell Jones out to WR - let him compete. I have no idea who will win out.
Additionally, it is good to here about Frazer speed. We need to be careful not to stereotype Jones as the multifacted QB bc he his black and Frazer a drop back only bc he is white. A couple of the best alltime mobile QBs are Steve Young and Elway. And Warren Moon, Doug Williams and several others were pretty amazing in the pocket.

You are right Weisfan, it was not a direct quote, but please see the following articles. I do not know how to paste them over, so here are the cites.

1.) Irish Eyes April 21, 2005 article: Weis Has the Irish Off and Running with Recruiting

Paraphrase qoute "It was made public numerous times that QB Zach Frazer is/was coach Cutliffe's and coach Weis' top target"

2.) The Sentinel April 15, 2005 article: Zach Frazer Goes Irish

found at:
http://www.cumberlink.com/article/2005/04/15/sports/sports01.txt
Paraphrase quote of coach Rich Lichtel, Frazer's coach, "Weis said, Frazer is the best QB in the country..."

3.) Running At the Mouth

article Soon, the Dominoes will Begin to Fall April 17, 2005

found at:
http://dogblog.typepad.com/running_at_the_mouth/2005/04/soon_the_dominoes.html

Paraphrase quote "QB Frazer, who supposedly Weis targeted. Word 'round the campfire is that coach Weis and coach Cutliffe...broke down tape of all of the top high school QB's. Then they caucussed and both had Frazer as his Number 1."

There are more articles, but I hope this helps about Frazer and what Frazer's coach, Rich Lictel said Weis said.

 

[BGIF]

To those who have already moved Demetrius Jones to WR and given the baton to Frazer (or want Mustain to commit), read the following:

BCS Bowl Winning QB's:
Vince Young, Michael Robinson, Troy Smith, Pat White.

They all are multi-dimensional QB's. Let's hope that DJs shoulder is fine.

Unwad your panties, Don Quixote, your jousting with a windmill!

I don't know that anyone has "moved Demetrius Jones to WR and given the baton to Frazer (or want Mustain to commit). Feel free to list them. I think one poster did express a preference to bring Mustain in - now. Shame on him!

There was a poll sometime back on this board, I hope Charlie reads IrishEnvy before making decision as then he would clearly know who he's somebody to select as IrishEnvy members overwhelmingly voted that they didn't think Mustain would end up at ND.

IF, you read the discussion under the MUSTAIN thread, we were discussing why would Mustain keep claiming ND as one of his final choices considering that ND was supposed to take two QBs and have two verbals.

Early in recruiting a prospect will drop a schools name to bolster his image, "the big boys want me". As he's the #1 QB with offers from the big boys that's not the angle.

Like Forbath, I suspect Mustain hedged too long and Jones jumped in with a verbal although he stated he would continue to take visits - just to check things out to make sure he was making the right decision. Go back and read the articles on Jones - he jumped before Mustain but had his fingers crossed behind his back in case a better situation arose. I don't think he ever visited anyone else officially and when Mustain withdrew his verbal from Arkansas, Jones quickly went on record with a I love ND interview. It took Frazer considerably longer but he finally went on record with an I love ND interview.

So again, why does Mustain continue to list ND? In the Mustain thread I noted it was intriguing and in the absence of other recruiting news (Carufel's the year's worst kept secret and Young and McCoy have both said they would not announce a choice for several week) at least Mustain gave us something to talk about.

We speculated how could there possibily be a slot available for Mustain unless someone baled and Jones and Frazer both said, It ain't me babe! We speculated about one of the injured verbals (there are several, Parris, Ryan, Walls) not being medically available for the season and could that open a slot. Jiggs brought up Jones last high school game where a rotator cuff injury kept him from playing QB AND HE PLAYED WIDE RECEIVER. We mentioned that Jones to WR had been discussed earlier in recruiting but discounted - as CW wanted two QBs.

But suddenly there's a third QB that keeps mentioning ND - and advertising for ND at the USA AA Bowl Game wearing a "Play Like a Champion" towel with his uniform.

I explained this last night in the MUSTAIN thread for bigdon who was all fired up over nothing and now you charge with a new thread.

NOBODY MOVED JONES!

But if he was to move to WR, that would open a slot for another QB and that's the only SCENARIO we could come up with for Mustain to still be courting ND when several other key prospects have publicly stated ND is full up.

Of course we shouldn't be discussing Butch Lewis than either should we. He's got ND in his Final Two and there's no room! Unless somebody doesn't come.

Be it Carufel, Young, Mccoy, or - one of the current verbals.

By the way, did you know that although Jones is on the USA Roster he's not there! I tracked it down yesterday and it was confirmed. Do you think Demetrius missed the BCS Display of Mobile QBs and didn't want the publicity so he skipped town? Or is it possibile, he can't play QB right now and he's rehabbing his shoulder?

Walls withdrew publicly from the USA AA Bowl to have surgery so his injury could be fixed and he ready to go in August in a gold helmet.

Ryan and Parris are playing high school basketball. You may recall Parris had a painful hip separation (Bo Jackson). Last night he dunked a basketball in a game with both hands.

There seems to be news about all the injured prospects save one.

Which is reasonable grounds for speculation on an internet board.


Now you want to take it further and wave the Vince Young, Troy Smith
Mobile QB Banner.

Geeze should ND dump Fraser and encourage Quinn to go to the NFL draft so we can get on with the new era of the mobile QB?

Why waste time?



Despite the sudden flavor du jour it's not new.

Fran Tarkington was legendary at Georgia - in the 50's!

In '61 he threw 3 TD in his first NFL game as a rookie. In an 18 year career he was threw over 340 TD passes and scored another 30+ on the ground. He finished with over 47,000 yds passing and another 3,600 rushing. Fran The Man ran NFL defenses ragged before Flutie was born. Staubach, Montana, Young, etc, etc.

 

[BGIF]

You are right Weisfan, it was not a direct quote, but please see the following articles. I do not know how to paste them over, so here are the cites.

1.) Irish Eyes April 21, 2005 article: Weis Has the Irish Off and Running with Recruiting

Paraphrase qoute "It was made public numerous times that QB Zach Frazer is/was coach Cutliffe's and coach Weis' top target"

2.) The Sentinel April 15, 2005 article: Zach Frazer Goes Irish

found at:
http://www.cumberlink.com/article/2005/04/15/sports/sports01.txt
Paraphrase quote of coach Rich Lichtel, Frazer's coach, "Weis said, Frazer is the best QB in the country..."

3.) Running At the Mouth

article Soon, the Dominoes will Begin to Fall April 17, 2005

found at:
http://dogblog.typepad.com/running_at_the_mouth/2005/04/soon_the_dominoes.html

Paraphrase quote "QB Frazer, who supposedly Weis targeted. Word 'round the campfire is that coach Weis and coach Cutliffe...broke down tape of all of the top high school QB's. Then they caucussed and both had Frazer as his Number 1."

There are more articles, but I hope this helps about Frazer and what Frazer's coach, Rich Lictel said Weis said.

Great job irishkid! Rep Points for you!

Good job of documenting your point. I recalled the same thing you did and was going through 200 pages of recruiting articles looking for the comments. Thanks for posting and saving me the time.

In addition to those, Cutcliffe commented to that effect AFTER he left ND's employ and BEFORE he went on Tennessee's payroll. As a private individual he was free to comment on any prospect an interviewer wanted to ask about. He wasn't bound by NCAA regulations at the time.

 

[bigdon]

I would love to see it come back. In my opinion the triple option is the hardest offense to stop. If you have a team that has talent and can execute it great (Nebraska '95) then you are unstoppable.

If you want to see the triple work to perfection the Naval academy runs it as well as it can be run. It is a thing of beauty when done well. The Navy's running yardage is always near the top in the NCAA.

While it is difficult to defend it is also difficult to install. A lot of fumbles and lost yardage unless the QB,FB, and Tail are in perfect sync. It is preferable when you don't have a huge line but great speed in the backfield. Offensive line does a lot of finesse and brush blocking because the hole isn't going to stay open too long.

 

[scooper]

I don't think you'll see it come back at major programs. It comes down to recruiting. The best athletes don't want to run it. They have their eyes on the NFL. Mobile QB's are great for QB draws, scrambling and occassional option plays out of the spread, but I don't think it will ever be a major staple again outside of a few small or medium programs. You'll notice the two biggest users remain Air Force and Navy-two schools where the athletes aren't looking at the NFL directly after school.

 

[weisfaninmass]

I don't think you'll see it come back at major programs. It comes down to recruiting. The best athletes don't want to run it. They have their eyes on the NFL. Mobile QB's are great for QB draws, scrambling and occassional option plays out of the spread, but I don't think it will ever be a major staple again outside of a few small or medium programs. You'll notice the two biggest users remain Air Force and Navy-two schools where the athletes aren't looking at the NFL directly after school.

Great point. And this is not limited to QB's only. You will never get the best WR and TE's bc they only block and these kids want to catch passes. You need look no further than Lou Holtz's last couple years of recruiting at ND to see how the option impacted recruiting.

Additionally, speed on defense it so fast these days that the option struggles bc you can't go wide anymore unless you can go deep to soften up the defenses.

 

[weisfaninmass]

Unwad your panties, Don Quixote, your jousting with a windmill!

I don't know that anyone has "moved Demetrius Jones to WR and given the baton to Frazer (or want Mustain to commit). Feel free to list them. I think one poster did express a preference to bring Mustain in - now. Shame on him!

Thanks for the esoteric preaching and BS.

Just read the 20+ pages of MITCH MUSTAIN posts and you will see many people wanting Mitch and saying that Weis has already moved DJ to WR etc etc. Start reading from page #12 on starting w ACCIrish., LuckoftheIrish referring to Mustain to Jones combo (sorry Zach), and YOUR QUOTE BGIF AS FOLLOWS: "Jones as a possible WR might also provide insurance if Parris' injury required more rehabilation" on page 19 post #183.

Do you want more examples or are your own words enough.

Ouch.

 

[jiggafini19]

But I think that BGIF quote was in regards to my "theory" that Mustain came back into the picture because it was around the same time Jones suffered the rotator cuff injury. I'm thinking Weis and Jones, being close, perhaps know more about the severity of the condition than we do. Thus, Weis is putting a contingency plan into action.

Again, I have NOTHING to substantiate this. Just a "what if" scenario.

People on this board and others have mentioned Jones in some capacity at just about everywhere but on the D or O lines. I see it as more of a compliment to him than anything else, a testament to his versatility.

Overall, I think that Jones will come in and participate as a QB candidate. How he fits into the mix by the end of his career will be interesting.

 

[Irishkid23]

I Love ND

I Love ND

Great job irishkid! Rep Points for you!

Good job of documenting your point. I recalled the same thing you did and was going through 200 pages of recruiting articles looking for the comments. Thanks for posting and saving me the time.

In addition to those, Cutcliffe commented to that effect AFTER he left ND's employ and BEFORE he went on Tennessee's payroll. As a private individual he was free to comment on any prospect an interviewer wanted to ask about. He wasn't bound by NCAA regulations at the time.

Thank you BGIF. GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Batch]

But I think that BGIF quote was in regards to my "theory" that Mustain came back into the picture because it was around the same time Jones suffered the rotator cuff injury. I'm thinking Weis and Jones, being close, perhaps know more about the severity of the condition than we do. Thus, Weis is putting a contingency plan into action.

This is my thought as well. I for one am concerned for Jones with this injury. I think it was you, Jigga that was questioning how long its been since the injury occurred. Any kind of trauma to a rotator cuff can be very susceptible to further injury in the future.

-Batch

 

[bigdon]

But I think that BGIF quote was in regards to my "theory" that Mustain came back into the picture because it was around the same time Jones suffered the rotator cuff injury. I'm thinking Weis and Jones, being close, perhaps know more about the severity of the condition than we do. Thus, Weis is putting a contingency plan into action.
Again, I have NOTHING to substantiate this. Just a "what if" scenario.
People on this board and others have mentioned Jones in some capacity at just about everywhere but on the D or O lines. I see it as more of a compliment to him than anything else, a testament to his versatility.
Overall, I think that Jones will come in and participate as a QB candidate. How he fits into the mix by the end of his career will be interesting.

Jiggs, maybe I missed something but are we sure this injury is rotator cuff? Perhaps this was printed in the Chicago papers. The only reason I mention this is even a slight rotator cuff injury is very serious and very slow to heal, In more cases than not it requires surgery, especially for an athlete.

 

[jiggafini19]

From Scout.com today:

Demetrius Jones – Quarterback East Squad. Demetrius is coming off a rotator cuff injury and wasn’t scheduled to participate in the bowl game, but he did make it down to San Antonio to watch his future teammates compete. Jones said he is almost completely healed and that he’d be ready to go when he reports to South Bend in late June.

Demetrius is going to be one of the leaders in this class. He is very personable and people are just drawn to him. He was only in San Antonio and it seemed like he knew all the players from both squads. During my conversations with him, players continually walked past and said hello to him. At one point I nicknamed him “The Mayor” due to his popularity. Notre Dame will be good for Demetrius Jones and Demetrius Jones will be good for Notre Dame.