Ducks Lack Luck of Irish

[jiggafini19]

While Notre Dame basks in BCS glow, Oregon, Pac-10 edgy
By Avani Patel
Chicago Tribune
November 28, 2005

PALO ALTO, Calif. -- Pac-10 Commissioner Tom Hansen wore a green windbreaker--"Oregon green," he insisted--as he rooted for Stanford to upset Notre Dame on Saturday night at Stanford Stadium.

Had the Cardinal won, it would have knocked the Irish out of the Bowl Championship Series hunt. That probably would have meant the Ducks would be celebrating a second trip to a BCS game in five years.

But it's the Irish basking in the warm knowledge that they will be playing in a BCS game. It's not official yet with one more week of games, but the Irish almost certainly sealed a trip to the Fiesta Bowl with their 38-31 victory over the Cardinal.

And the Pac-10, still smarting from last year's snub when the BCS passed over Cal for Texas, remains edgy, hoping a worthy Oregon (10-1) can edge out a worthy Ohio State (9-2) for the final BCS at-large spot.

Barring any major upsets, the BCS picture is pretty clear.

Texas (11-0) should beat Colorado (7-4) in the Big 12 championship game. Southern California (11-0) should beat UCLA (9-1) in its regular-season finale. Virginia Tech (10-1) should make quick work of stumbling Florida State (7-4) in the Atlantic Coast Conference title game.

If everything goes as it figures to, USC would face Texas for the national title in the Rose Bowl. The Southeastern Conference champion--LSU or Georgia--would play Big East champion West Virginia in the Sugar Bowl.

The Fiesta Bowl, whose top three officials attended Notre Dame's squeaker over Stanford, would take the Irish. Notre Dame's spot would be assured by the crowd and cachet it would bring.

Then the Orange Bowl likely would grab Big Ten champion Penn State, leaving Fiesta Bowl officials with this decision: Ohio State or Oregon?

The Ducks' only loss was a 45-13 decision against top-ranked USC.

But Ohio State can make a strong argument. Though the Buckeyes have lost twice, the defeats were a three-point loss to No. 2 Texas and a 17-10 loss at No. 4 Penn State.

The Fiesta Bowl's selection committee will meet for the first time Monday. And while Oregon and Ohio State are certainly in the mix, Shawn Schoeffler, the game's vice president for media relations, said other teams remain in play.

To be eligible for a BCS spot, a team must have won nine regular-season games and have finished in the top 12 in the BCS standings. Schoeffler cited Auburn (9-2), which is 10th in the BCS standings, as another possibility.

"They're playing as well as anyone right now," he said.

Schoeffler pointed out that Auburn lost its season opener to Georgia Tech but came on the heels of losing "three first-round picks" out of the backfield. And Auburn's 20-17 overtime loss to LSU included five missed field goals by John Vaughn.

"They ended the year with wins over two top-10 teams (Georgia and Alabama)," Schoeffler said. "They'll be talked about quite a bit."

One could argue that both Oregon and Ohio State are more deserving than Notre Dame and should simply play each other in the Fiesta Bowl. Still, when selections are announced Sunday, the Irish are unlikely to be left out.

"You've got to do what's best for your business and put the best matchup on the field," Schoeffler said. "An intriguing matchup locally, and something that has a lot of national appeal."

 

[jiggafini19]

What if UCLA beats SC?

Does Oregon still deserve to go then?

This Auburn program is going to BOOM in the next few years. Last year was no fluke. That program is here to stay.

 

[Irish Envy]

No, they don't.

Every time I take a look at the Oregon schedule, I can't help but feel they don't belong in the BCS picture. While the 10-1 record is pretty, they're really 9-1 because I will never count a I-AA win.

 

[jiggafini19]

Agreed. UCLA trumps Oregon if they beat SC in my book.

Oregon beat 8-3 Fresno State, 6-5 Houston, 7-4 Cal and 6-5 Arizona State. I'm supposed to be impressed with THAT? Fresno State and Cal maybe, but let's look at the rest of the schedule.

No, the argument swings both ways here. SC beat their asses. They have wins over Washington, Wash St, Arizona and Oregon State.

I'd say this argument is pretty even. The Pac 10 is pretty weak and Oregon didn't have to play UCLA.

 

[Irish Envy]

Yeah, the only argument against Notre Dame was our schedule strength or lackthereof. Our opponents had a combined record of 58-62.

If you take out our two worst opponents, Syracuse at 1-10 and Washington at 2-9, our record jumps to 55-43. That's pretty significant all things considered as it shows our opponents then average a bit over 6 wins per. Add these two in and it drops to just under 5 wins.

In terms of playing the games, we've outscored opponents 420-260 which averages out to 38.18 points scored, 23.64 points allowed. What is another nice statistic in Notre Dame's favor is if you take our two worst opponents out, Syracuse and Washington, we average 38.89 points against 25.89 allowed. That shows that it doesn't matter the opponent, Notre Dame has really handed it to them regardless of record.

 

[Domer95]

No, they don't.

Every time I take a look at the Oregon schedule, I can't help but feel they don't belong in the BCS picture. While the 10-1 record is pretty, they're really 9-1 because I will never count a I-AA win.

TOTALLY agree Svoboda. Also, Oregon's win over Fresno St. doesn't look so pretty now that they've lost to Nevada and please Duck fans, don't give me the line that Fresno played SC close (see game at SoBend 1/15/05.....). Also 'stellar' wins over Houston, Wazzou and Arizona?????

I say that we play and kick O$U's ass....then the following week, since we're out there, meet up w/ the Ducks, anywhere and throttle then as well....

 

[Irish Envy]

Throwing Oregon into an Excel spreadsheet, they come out with the following:

Statistics Counting Montana (I-AA)
Opponents Schedule - 65 wins, 57 losses (5.91 wins, 5.18 losses)
Points Scored - 400 points (36.36 average)
Points Allowed - 261 points (23.73 average)

Statistics Not Counting Montana (I-AA)
Opponents Schedule - 57 wins, 53 losses (5.70 wins, 5.30 losses)
Points Scored - 353 points (35.30 average)
Points Allowed - 247 points (24.70 average)

 

[jiggafini19]

Oregon may have a beef, but the schedule argument is weak. Wins and losses, yes. One is less than two.

But the system is what it is. Money trumps all. Notre Dame is going to fill the seats and have people watching.

What Oregon should really be pissed at is if Colorado and/or Florida State get into this thing. And let's not forget West Virginia out of the Big East.

South Florida almost had a chance for the BCS? Holy $h*t!!

 

[Irish Envy]

Common Opponents
Also, one more thing to take a look at. Oregon had three common opponents with Notre Dame. Those opponents were Washington, Stanford and USC.

Oregon went 2-1 against those three that have an average record of 6-5. They outscored them 102-86, that averages out to 34 to 28.67. Notre Dame also went 2-1 against those three, outscoring them 105-82 with averages of 35 to 27.33.

 

[Richduck]

Weak argument

Weak argument

Take away the USC loss 45-13 and then compare the games against Washington and Stanford. Two weak teams the Ducks didn't struggle against. Notre Dame's quality wins vs teams with winning records: BYU 6-5, Navy 6-4, and Michigan 7-4.

 

[jiggafini19]

Take away the USC loss 45-13 and then compare the games against Washington and Stanford. Two weak teams the Ducks didn't struggle against. Notre Dame's quality wins vs teams with winning records: BYU 6-5, Navy 6-4, and Michigan 7-4.

Best of luck to you in your bowl game this year.

Unless the Ducks end up in the Fiesta anyway playing Notre Dame.

Pray that Colorado or Florida State don't win, otherwise you're really going to get closer to the ledge.

 

[irishtexan]

If ND played a Div 1-AA school, I could understand us not getting a BCS bowl bid. But the fact is we wont and never will. Before the season began it appeared that we had one of the toughest schedules in the nation, but it is not our fault that some perennial powerhouses have nose-dived this year. Do 15-20 million people tune in to watch Oregon play every Saturday? No. Does Oregon have all the tradition and National Titles ND has? No. The reason ND got ranked so high is as follows:


1st week (unranked) (1) (0-0)

ND then Destroyed #22 Pittsburgh on the road
2nd week (20th rank) (345) (1-0)

ND then a huge underdog Defeats #3 Michigan on the road
3rd week (10th rank) (1,036) (2-0)

Heartbreaking OT loss to a Undefeated Michigan State team so they drop 6 spots
4th week (16th rank) (609) (2-1) (A loss, so..)

ND goes on the road and crushes Washington 36-17 while multiple teams ahead of them lose
5th week (13th rank) (800) (3-1)

Crushed #18 Purdue on the road 42-21 moves up 1 spot
6th week (12th rank) (966) (4-1)

BYE weak three teams ahead of them lose
7th week (9th rank) (1,058) (4-1)

Lost to #1 USC on final play much like Fresno State doesn't move in the polls
8th week (9th rank) (1,020) (4-2)

ND crushes BYU 49-23
9th week (9th rank) (1,067) (5-2)

Bye Week one team ahead of them loses
10th week (8th rank) (1,097) (5-2)

ND crushes Tennessee putting up 41 points, the team in front of them in the polls loses
11th week (7th rank) (1,201) (6-2)

ND handles Navy 42-21and again the team in front of them in the polls loses
12th week (6th rank) (1,246) (7-2)

ND crushes Syracuse and that puts us where we are today
13th week (6th rank) (1,280) (8-2)

I agree ND's schedule has turned out to be weak, but that isn't how the polls work, the above is. Before the season many people stated ND played one of the hardest schedules in the country, and now they are overrated according to many people becuase the 7 teams on their schedule that went to bowl games last year didnt turn out to be as good as WE ALL thought they would (Tennessee, Michigan, Purdue). Notre Dame has played outstanding football all year, they should at least get some credit where its due. Escpecially when everyone in the nation said they will never win 5 games this year. Look, I am all for a college playoff, plain and simple. The only way to settle this crap is on the field, but in the times we live in, it wont happen. Write the NCAA, go picket at the Fiesta Bowl, but dont whine to us that Oregon has a better program. We arent buying it.

 

[Irish Envy]

Take away the USC loss 45-13 and then compare the games against Washington and Stanford. Two weak teams the Ducks didn't struggle against. Notre Dame's quality wins vs teams with winning records: BYU 6-5, Navy 6-4, and Michigan 7-4.

So you want to take out the only common opponent that was worth a damn? Not quite sure I understand that logic... well I do, since they rolled you, I'd want them out of there, too. As for quality wins, you had Cal... and Cal... and Cal. That's it... one quality win. Fresno State and Arizona State are models of inconsistency and your Pacific 10 squads are pretty soft as most records indicate. Care to dispute this?

Whether you want to admit it or not, Tennessee was also a quality win for the Irish. Record aside, they are loaded with talent and underacheived. They beat the LSU Tigers handily, so does that mean that Oregon is better than the LSU Tigers, too?

Also, Pittsburgh was a BCS team last season and returned nearly 75% of their starters. Same goes for Purdue that was supposed to go undefeated this year... unfortunately for them, they play in a reputable conference that is loaded with talent.

Notre Dame did what they had to do... beat their opponents. We also benefitted because teams in front of us continued to lose, which allowed us to gradually move back up. All of this would be for not if you schedule a tough I-A school for your non-conference game instead of the I-AA creampuff, no?

Anyhow, good luck to you and I wish you get into a nice bowl. It just won't be a BCS bowl because Auburn is more deserving with 2 loses over your Ducks, too.

 

[jiggafini19]

Why are these people bitching?

They haven't been left out of anything yet. There is still one more weekend left and who knows what will happen?

 

[Irish Envy]

Why are these people bitching?

They haven't been left out of anything yet. There is still one more weekend left and who knows what will happen?

Call it women's intuition.

They know they're on the outside looking in and they know it... I'm sure that hurts going 10-1 and knowing you don't have a chance at a money bowl. I can sit down and name 10-12 teams that deserve to be in a BCS bowl ahead of Oregon.

They have nobody to blame but the Pac 10 and whomever scheduled Montana. Plain and simple.

 

[BigIrish]

yeah, but wins/losses alone don't tell the whole story.

EVERYBODY takes their best shot against ND. Oregon can't claim to be the highlight of their opponents' schedules. Sad but true.

The game against washington featured a scorned former Irish coach leading a team desperate to vindicate him. They MIGHT have played over their heads...

The U-M game featured a team who, at the time, still believed they deserved the #3 ranking they possessed. Toss in the fact that it was in the big house and that U-M was seeking revenge for Irish success against them in recent years. Think they might have been fired up for that game?

Stanford was playing their final game in that stadium. they trotted out a bunch of former players throughout the game. They were hosting the Irish in a game where a win makes them bowl eligible. Stanford came ready to play.

Tennessee was looking for revenge from last year when the Irish spoiled their season.

Pittsburgh entered the season high as a kite, with a preseaon heisman contender at QB.

Purdue was picked by some as a darkhorse contender for the NC. they had their entire defense back. all 11 of them.

the list goes on and on....

trying to compare how this season's common opponents get up for Oregon vs. the way they get up for the Irish is a losing proposition.

No disrepect to other teams here, but i have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for teams who schedule I-AA teams. NONE. IMO, a team from any of the BCS conferences that schedules a I-AA team should be excluded from BCS play. The practice of scheduling those sorts of wins is despicable.

 

[irishtexan]

Amen Bigirish!!!

 

[jiggafini19]

West Virginia beat WOFFORD this year. WOFFORD.

East Carolina and Maryland as well. Lost 34-17 to Va Tech for their only loss.

My heart pumps piss for anyone that doesn't get into a BCS game, but I suggest spreading the bitching and moaning to West Virginia, Ohio State and other boards once all is said and done.

The fact that Florida State and Colorado still have a chance should tell you Notre Dame isn't the "evil empire."

South Florida was on the brink of getting in. South Florida!!

 

[domerfor life]

Oregon didn't even have to play UCLA this year. They have three non-conference wins against Montana, Sam Houston State, and Houston. Five out of the ten teams in conference have a losing record. Two other teams are barely above .500. They lost big to the top team and didn't have to play the other top team. They need to find a different angle other than schedule and the MSU loss. That angle is played out and was insufficient to start with.

 

[jiggafini19]

So if ND had beaten MSU and had only one loss, what difference does it make? MSU still would not have been bowl eligible.

Ditch the two loss argument. That game wouldn't have mattered either way. If ND and Oregon each had one loss to the same team, they'd still think they're more deserving.

And the merry go round gets another free spin....

16 team playoff. Plain and simple.

 

[Irish Envy]

So if ND had beaten MSU and had only one loss, what difference does it make? MSU still would not have been bowl eligible.

Ditch the two loss argument. That game wouldn't have mattered either way. If ND and Oregon each had one loss to the same team, they'd still think they're more deserving.

And the merry go round gets another free spin....

16 team playoff. Plain and simple.

Yeah, I'd also go as far as saying that the best team in the Nation right now (that I've watched recently) is a two loss team. Nobody in the BCS wants any part of Auburn... I sure don't.

 

[jiggafini19]

Yeah, I'd also go as far as saying that the best team in the Nation right now (that I've watched recently) is a two loss team. Nobody in the BCS wants any part of Auburn... I sure don't.

Absolutely right. Those guys lost all that talent and still put together a great year. Western Kentucky and Ball State, however, do not support THEIR schedule either.

But these guys are good.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

Who cares about Oregon? Let 'em whine and play in another bowl. ND vs. OSU is a great matchup and that's what we'll probably see in the Fiesta Bowl. We need revenge against OSU for that bad loss in '96 at the Horseshoe. Plus, OSU has been bad mouthing ND for weeks because we're ranked ahead of them.

 

[Domer95]

West Virginia beat WOFFORD this year. WOFFORD.

Jigga,
Was this the "Fightin Pittsnogles v. Wofford"???? OHHH, you meant the football team.....

You KNOW that LSU will bitch & moan if we get a BCS and they get upset by UGA and don't get an at large.....But come on, I'd feel robbed too if my team LOST to TN AT HOME, struggled against a lowly ARK and padded the schedule w/ NoTx and AppSt.

 

[Domer95]

Take away the USC loss 45-13 and then compare the games against Washington and Stanford. Two weak teams the Ducks didn't struggle against. Notre Dame's quality wins vs teams with winning records: BYU 6-5, Navy 6-4, and Michigan 7-4.

Maybe next year Phil Knight can start the "Swoosh Bowl", where only Oregon can play against other Nike Schools......