Texas High School Builds $60M Stadium

[woolybug25]

I saw this post on another site and thought it did a better job explaining than I am doing.

Did you read my response earlier regarding how municipal bonds work? I'm not going to keep repeating how municipal bonds work. You either have already convinced yourself that you are right or you aren't reading my posts at all.

They couldn't have chose to allocate those bonds to teacher's salaries, but they didn't have to use them all. Essentially wasting taxpayer's money while the school is bleeding money.

Here is my last explanation:

- Bonds levels are approved on a schedule basis for each asset type. Allen was approved for $60MM of bonds all specifically for different parts of the buildout.

- That Approval does not require the city to use every dollar of distribution. If they decided that maybe a Jumbotron was a bit much for a high school in a $4.5MM deficet, then they could have chosen to not allocate those bonds.

- Now, this money couldn't be used elsewhere because they are specifically tied to the stadium. But this would lower the taxpayer burden of the bond issuance and in turn lower the specific tax increase necessary to create funds for the project.

- With this lower tax hike, if they wanted to address the loss of teachers, lack of tools or create scholarships. Then they could vote for new legislation to create those. They would be completely seperate from the stadium bonds, but if they already agreed to the tax hike necessary for the stadium, maybe they would accept a rate increase to the original amount to fulfill the bond issuance. Albeit, the difference being new operating budget.

 

[PraetorianND]

UNT and Allen should have made a stadium together. They are so close geographically and the budgets were very similar.

 

[ndfi78]

Did you read my response earlier regarding how municipal bonds work? I'm not going to keep repeating how municipal bonds work. You either have already convinced yourself that you are right or you aren't reading my posts at all.

They couldn't have chose to allocate those bonds to teacher's salaries, but they didn't have to use them all. Essentially wasting taxpayer's money while the school is bleeding money.

I did and I understand it. The thing that you don't seem to get is that bond was approved by the voters. It could be effectively considered spent already and in the past. They have a budget shortfall, a current problem. You don’t think that during the next round of voting they might have a something in there to maybe cover that? I do, and my guess is it will pass. I know I will be voting yes.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

If it were up to me, they would have only spent $30MM on the stadium, and the rest would go to me. (Obviously they would have to approve a new $30MM bond issuance, but they already approved $60MM. So they'll probably just consider the funds going to me as money they've already spent).

 

[PraetorianND]

They aren't that close, it's roughly 40 miles from the UNT campus to the Allen High School Campus.

Oh really? For some reason It thought it was much closer. Never mind.

 

[woolybug25]

I did and I understand it. The thing that you don't seem to get is that bond was approved by the voters. It could be effectively considered spent already and in the past. They have a budget shortfall, a current problem. You don’t think that during the next round of voting they might have a something in there to maybe cover that? I do, and my guess is it will pass. I know I will be voting yes.

Bonds are first approved, which was done in the past and approved by the voters (as you said). Those bonds are issued on a schedule basis and completely separate from both the vote and approval of said bonds. So when the city realized that they were getting a massive shortfall in operating funding, they could have voted on not utilizing all of the available approved bond issuance's in order to lessen the sting of the necessary tax hike that will be needed later to increase operating budgets.

They could not already be considered spent, because they weren't. They weren't even issued yet. They are issued on payment to each individual vendor. Furthermore, because this is a municipality, they have the Right of Non-Appropriation. All municipalities have this right to simply walk away from financing at any point. So even if they were in the middle of the project, the city could have simply walked away at any point. All municipalities have this right.

I'm glad to hear your vote will be for education though. Good onya.

 

[Cackalacky]

Bonds are first approved, which was done in the past and approved by the voters (as you said). Those bonds are issued on a schedule basis and completely separate from both the vote and approval of said bonds. So when the city realized that they were getting a massive shortfall in operating funding, they could have voted on not utilizing all of the available approved bond issuance's in order to lessen the sting of the necessary tax hike that will be needed later to increase operating budgets.

They could not already be considered spent, because they weren't. They weren't even issued yet. They are issued on payment to each individual vendor. Furthermore, because this is a municipality, they have the Right of Non-Appropriation. All municipalities have this right to simply walk away from financing at any point. So even if they were in the middle of the project, the city could have simply walked away at any point. All municipalities have this right.

I'm glad to hear your vote will be for education though. Good onya.

Yes.......... all the way through. Where I live, an interstate has been planned and for over two decades. They built part of it in the 1980s , then built another part in the 1990s. They now are trying to finish it but no one can agree on the proper layout and design for the final stretch. They continually go through the non-appropriation process every year and walk away every year, even though they have spent monies for plans and designs which are usually stymied prior to approval. So there are monies, as wooly stated, which can be apportioned as voted on or they can be left on the table.

The dotted line has been in the stages of completetion for almost 10 years. There are ramps at both ends, which have now been covered completely by grass. There are 12 different designed paths and multiple issues for completing them, yet no approval has been granted. I recently voted for a tax increase to improve and build a new high school that is basically a technically based pre-college high school. It will be awesome since we have multiple large scale manufactures in the area, including Boeing, and it almost did not pass. Kids with a high school degree will be able to walk right into Boeing with the technical know how to assemble aircraft parts and sections....Yet, construction on it has not begun.....once again becasue the City has yet to act upon it.

 

[ndfi78]

So when the city realized that they were getting a massive shortfall in operating funding, they could have voted on not utilizing all of the available approved bond issuance's in order to lessen the sting of the necessary tax hike that will be needed later to increase operating budgets.

I get what you are saying there but I'm guessing most residents are going to feel like I do, that they are two separate issues. Of course since it is my opinion I am predisposed to think others will agree.

One thing to consider is that this stadium will be a source of pride for most of the residents of Allen, and people are more likely to spend money/agree to pay taxes in a city they are proud of IMO. Allen is proud of their athletic and academic status, I would think they would do what is necessary to continue that status on both fronts.

Then again I might be talking completely out of my ***, it's been known to happen!

 

[texbender]

Some points to keep in mind:
1. Allen is an affluent Dallas suburb in one of the most affluent counties(Collin) in Texas.
2. Allen H.S. is the only high school in the city....a la Southlake. It creates a 1 team for the town type atmosphere, and the support is strong.
3. Allen H.S. has become a perennial 5A football power, with tons of kida winding up at D1 schools.
4. ND recruits there...nobody snagged yet. Big winners are the usual suspects: UT, A&M, ARK, NEB, OK
5. bond was approved prior to the economic downturn, and prior to last years' legislative education cuts. So, really no connection between the 2 events.
6 The school district will earn monies from renting the facility out.
7. Yeah, overall grad rates not good.............keep in mind the HUGE population that English may not be the preferred language, along with family tradition of directing kids to go on to college.
8. Guarantee you, Allen H.S. grad rate is probably 95+%, with a bunch of Merit Scholars
9. Anybody not from Texas can't begin to imagine what high school fb on a Friday night means, practically to everyone. Kind of like Hoosier Hysteria, but on steroids.

That's all I got to say 'bout that.............................

 

[ndfi78]

Another thing to think about, Allen ISD has 1200+ teachers so 44 is not going to make or break them. I believe their gross revenue was $192 million last year

 

[NYMIKE6]

I was avoiding this thread, now i looked and feel sick.....

 

[Onemanwolfpack]

Another thing to think about, Allen ISD has 1200+ teachers so 44 is not going to make or break them. I believe their gross revenue was $192 million last year

Wooly - Thanks for the education on the bond process. Although I did hear some fallout (rightfully so) from the teachers and other employees being cut due to the funding shortfall, this is the first I have heard about the bond appropriation process and the ability of the city to stop, delay, or walk away from the construction of the stadium project. As always, politics played a strong role in this process, but I can't offer much background on the politics of the stadium.

As NDfi78 and others have pointed out, football is the center of activity in the towns around here. Allen has about 85,000 residents and one high school. Clearly, there is a large group of people who are supportive of the stadium no matter what. I was also told that other "nice to have" projects were added to the bond because they rightfully knew that it was easier to get an Arts Center project approved as part of a football stadium bond. In short, they overloaded the bond proposal because it was tied to the football stadium and was easier to approve. This compounded the funding problem because the total bond issuance was twice the cost of the stadium ($119MM).

I come from family of teachers (Mom, sister, and wife), so the fact that they could keep moving forward with the construction and the bonds during a budget shortfall does not sit well with me. It's a sad commentary on our values.

As for your state education comment, I did not know Texas rated that poorly in the state rankings. Allen HS is pretty outstanding and the graduation rate is exceptionally high. I believe the other large stadium schools are in a similar situation (more affluent areas that have solid schools). Still, your point is well taken regarding the priority of education overall.

 

[ryno 24]

If that is what they choose than I do not have a problem with it. I personally think it is pretty awesome. If my high school could do this I would be pretty pumped.

 

[Cackalacky]

Yet another example of choosing to make money over doing the right thing.....

"We be breakin bread over heaahhhh boiiii!"

 

[UHCoogs]

Property taxes are split into two funds, M&O and I&S. Maintenance and Operations, along with state subsidies, pay for the day to day expenses, buses, lunches, salaries and supplies. The law allows school districts to levee a tax of up $1.04 per $100 of value for M&O. Any higher than that and they have to have an election and even then they are limited to an additional 13 cents on the rate.

Interest and Sinking funds cover facilities. Schools, football fields, libraries, whatever and they are not subsidized by the state. Neither are they capped. A school district may set the I&S rate as high as it likes, though bond issues have to be approved by public vote.

So when you see a district build a $60 million stadium, that's not an indication it's priorities are out of whack. It's probably an indication that the district's taxpayers would support a higher tax rate to pay teachers more, but they are not allowed to do so.

 

[woolybug25]

Property taxes are split into two funds, M&O and I&S. Maintenance and Operations, along with state subsidies, pay for the day to day expenses, buses, lunches, salaries and supplies. The law allows school districts to levee a tax of up $1.04 per $100 of value for M&O. Any higher than that and they have to have an election and even then they are limited to an additional 13 cents on the rate.

Interest and Sinking funds cover facilities. Schools, football fields, libraries, whatever and they are not subsidized by the state. Neither are they capped. A school district may set the I&S rate as high as it likes, though bond issues have to be approved by public vote.

So when you see a district build a $60 million stadium, that's not an indication it's priorities are out of whack. It's probably an indication that the district's taxpayers would support a higher tax rate to pay teachers more, but they are not allowed to do so.

Please take a moment to read my previous posts in this thread regarding the bond financing world. The taxes, bond issuance and non appropriations have all been addressed.

If the city wanted to spend less money on the stadium, they had every ability to do so. That money wouldn't have been able to be used directly for the educational operations budget, but separate bonds could have been issued or they could have voted for additional tax increases in the future. Bonds are not free money, they will be payed back. Money always comes from somewhere.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

"but separate bonds could have been issued or they could have voted for additional tax increases in the future."

Only if Allen isn't already at their cap.

 

[woolybug25]

"but separate bonds could have been issued or they could have voted for additional tax increases in the future."

Only if Allen isn't already at their cap.

In the future, dude. As soon as the new fiscal year starts (ironically, Sept 1st). Most bond schedules are issued/drawn upon at fiscal years. Unless there are other bond issuances in front of them, they could be issued as the cap is drawn down. Furthermore, they could do a tax increase as well.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

They could be at their cap in the future too. They could be at their cap for as many years as this thread keeps going. You could die typing in this thread, 80 years from now, and they could still be at their cap.

 

[woolybug25]

They could be at their cap in the future too. They could be at their cap for as many years as this thread keeps going. You could die typing in this thread, 80 years from now, and they could still be at their cap.

The cap is constantly being drawn down as bonds get repaid. The cap ebbs and flows. Otherwise, municipalities would never be able to issue new bonds. I'm not saying that as a guess, i'm saying that as a commercial banker that deals with bond issuances and municipal financing.

It also doesn't change the fact that they could get funds from tax dollars.

 

[texbender]

............and then, depression set in.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It is all bullshiit, because with this kind of idolotry comes pressure which is bad for the kids, and with this kind of money comes the need to lie, cheat, and steal. (See SEC).

 

[irishtrain]

...Texas...

Allen Eagle Stadium, New $60 Million High School Football Venue, Debuts In Dallas Suburb (PHOTOS)

I'll say it, field turf and video scoreboard.

And you want to know where entitlement issues come from.