The White Man For The Job?

Irish Envy

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The University of Notre Dame football program got its man on Monday.

No, it didn’t land a high-profile college coach with a winning pedigree, like former Utah and new Florida coach Urban Meyer.

And, no, it didn’t procure a pro coach with a Super Bowl ring, like Tampa Bay’s Jon Gruden.

But in New England Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, the university that, in essence, represents Catholic America, did secure a football coach who is an alum (Class of 1978), a Catholic and--okay, I’ll say it--a white man.

Sorry, but there’s just no delicate way of putting it.

How else do you explain the firing of former Fighting Irish football coach Tyrone Willingham, who was hired by the troubled University of Washington football program (they know a good man when they see him) after a scant two weeks on the unemployment line?

Three years ago, Willingham, an African-American, arrived in South Bend with the perfect resume— unlike the university’s first choice for the job (George O’Leary). He had coached at a university with high academic standards—Stanford—and done so well, posting a 44-36-1 record in seven seasons.

He was getting it done at Notre Dame, too—until he got the shaft.

In the early 1980s, the Irish gave Gerry Faust five years, despite a mediocre 30-26-1 record (18- 15-1 after three seasons). Willingham’s predecessor, Bob Davie, got five years, with a similarly pedestrian 35-25 mark (21-16 after three seasons), and a program marred by the off- the-field problems.

Willingham’s record in a paltry three seasons was 21-15. And he continued to graduate players, while, by all reports, making sure they behaved off the field.

Yet, he became the first Notre Dame coach fired before being allowed to fulfill his contract.

It’s almost unheard of to fire a college football coach before allowing him a full recruiting cycle (four to five years) to make or break a program with his own players.

Yet, that’s exactly what Notre Dame did.

So what did Faust and Davie have that Willingham didn’t?

A lighter skin pigment.

At least that's my opinion. Many will argue that Notre Dame boosters and administrators had banked on Meyer returning to South Bend when they made the decision to can Willingham, but I don’t buy it. Few were surprised when Meyer, a devout Catholic and former Fighting Irish assistant, chose the Florida job. He had worked for the school president, after all, and the Gators’ future schedule and incoming recruits look a heck of a lot more favorable than Notre Dame’s. Notre Dame had to have seen that, too.

It doesn’t help the perception here either that Notre Dame president Rev. Edward Malloy and athletic director Kevin White, the two men who, at most schools, would be solely responsible for the decision to dismiss the football coach, told The New York Times last week that they had been against the decision to terminate Willingham.

So why did it happen?

My guess is the university community was far more ready to accept a black man in the high-profile position of football coach than if not the majority a powerful minority of alumni and football fans. This “liberal-college-faculty- being-out-of-touch-with-conservative-American- values” thing is becoming an old story in the media these days.

Oh wait… This is Notre Dame. Doesn’t get much more conservative than the Catholic Church.

But there’s a disconnect somewhere. Over the years, I heard more than one supposed Irish supporter use the “N-word” in relation to Willingham, the first black head football coach at the school and the only black head coach there, in any sport, at the time of his dismissal.

This isn’t about Charlie Weis, who, to me, seems like a stand-up guy. But he’s not half the college coach Willingham is. Not yet anyway.

This was about racism. And, at least one Notre Dame administrator agrees with me. Rev. Malloy’s assistant, Chandra Johnson, an African-American. She shaved her head in protest of Willingham’s firing.

I’d say simply that Notre Dame’s loss is Washington’s gain, but Notre Dame lost a lot more than a good football coach as a result of the Willingham affair. It lost its standing as a pillar of decency and values, and that’s a lot harder to fix than a football team.

URL: http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/dec/article217.html
 
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Ask Stanford fans if Willingham was good and a majority of them say no, he did a poor job recruiting there, he'd recruit a ton of recievers but no linemen. Ask ND fans if Ty was a good coach and a majority of them will say no, again poor recruiter, in a few years i have a feeling you'll hear the same thing in washington. Wish him the best though.


44-36 record at Stanford is nothing special, stanford is a decent football program. They recruit top 25 classes every now and then. Talent wise there right with Boston College over the years.

44-36 at Duke or Northwestern would be impressive.
 
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TexMexDomer

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[Hey Amigo, guys like you still just don't get it. The guy was lettting the football program go in the crapper. He was a poor field general by getting outcoached constantly and his recruiting efforts left much to be desired.

He was given an opportunity to make an impact in the most prestigious university in the country and he failed poor and simple. Sportswriter Glenn Dickey of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote exactly three years ago on New Years Day that Ty made a big mistake by taking the ND job because he would show just how mediocre a coach he is with the whole spotlight of the press and fans shining on him. Boy, he sure proved it with flying colors!!

As for the lady who turned herself into an 8-ball, I can only say,"Smooth move. You really showed 'em!"

Furthermore, quit trying to make the "N" word sound as if it's a sacrilege against the papacy or something. It's just a WORD!! It's used constantly in the minority community. I'm more bothered by those who misuse the Good Lord's name.
 

bmf175

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I just can not believe that this thread has popped up after all that was said on this issue over the past month!!!!
Who in the hell is the "bright" one that brought this up? Are you serious? Do you not know how to read? Do you not know football?

Look plane and simple. He was hired to win games and uphold a standard that he himself admitted to not doing.
Are you happy with ND being a .500 team, i guess you are! Having one more year to implement his sorry ass plan, would have done nothing!!!!!NOTHING!!
But made the hole that much deeper for the next coach to dig ND out of!!!

I think this thread was started not to get an explanation of what happened, but to start getting reactions from people and see what kind of mess can get stirred up.

This subject was clearly addressed in other threads on this website. And all the posts that will be posted on this thread is exactly what was stated on other threads, so why bring it up? You are crying, and that is all.

bottom line! If you were ok with willinghams records and performance in the last two years than that says something about your own low standards!!!

Why was he fired when others got 5 years? Because you learn from mistakes!!! Ara Parseigen said himself-
IF YOU CAN NOT DO IT IN THREE (3) YEARS YOU CAN NOT DO IT!!!!

Davie, Faust, an Holtz have prooven that to be accurate. Holtz did it 3 Parseigen did it in 3, coaches from other schools have done it in 3 or less!!!!
You can either do it at that school or not in 3 years!!!
 

irishgo8

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WHAT THE H***. If Gerry Faust was Black would u say that it was cause of racism? NO WAY. Willingham was a black Gerry Faust. Nothing more needs to be said.
 

irishtexan

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Im sorry, but 44-36 is not an acceptable record for any coach at Notre Dame. And if the douchebag wants to write about race in college, which I am so tired of talking about, why dont you bitch about any of the black colleges hiring white coaches? Why are their all-black fraternities on campuses? If there was an all white fraternity the f***ing world would come to an end. Yet you dont hear many people bitching about that. And who is this guy to say Weis isnt half the man Weis is? Until Willingham wins 3 superbowls he will never be on the same level as Weis. God I cant wait until Weis embarrasses Willingham when they play each other next year.
 

irishgo8

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By the way - who would want to be a ND fan if they rnt a catholic.

Knute Rockne was a Catholic
and i believe Ara Paresghian and Holtz were cathlics too.

ND's history is centered around Catholicism
 
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irishgo8 said:
WHAT THE H***. If Gerry Faust was Black would u say that it was cause of racism? NO WAY. Willingham was a black Gerry Faust. Nothing more needs to be said.


Gerry Faust could recruit. Ty couldn't, I think his personality turned off recruits.
 
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seIRISH

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I read this yesterday and quickly emailed the writer to point out all the flaws.I encourge others to do the same.
 
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NDViking66

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irishgo8

irishgo8

irishgo8 said:
By the way - who would want to be a ND fan if they rnt a catholic.

Hey Pete. I am a ND fan and have been for almost 40 years. I'm not catholic. I'm protestant. I grew up a Baptist and started following ND in 1966. ND has many fans out there who are not Catholic.
 

Irish Envy

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NDViking66 said:
Hey Pete. I am a ND fan and have been for almost 40 years. I'm not catholic. I'm protestant. I grew up a Baptist and started following ND in 1966. ND has many fans out there who are not Catholic.
I am not Catholic, either.
 

bmf175

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Yes I agree... I was raised a Catholic but do not consider myself a Catholic or devoted to any Religion. I dont think being Catholic is a Must in order to be a ND fan.
That would be like saying you have to be Irish to support ND. Its not a deciding factor on who can play or support ND.

After all you dont even need to be Catholic to attend ND anymore.
 
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Vince Young

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Okay, once more with feeling...

I think Ty deserved one more year. Instead he got fired. I disagree with that decision.

But am I going to jump up and down, spin around on my eyebrows, spit wooden nickles, and shave my head over a coach who won less than 60% of the time?

No. :none:

And if we're gonna compary Ty to Faust and Davie, let's compare apples to apples. At the end of 3 years, all 3 had very, very similar records. Faust and Davie went on to 2 more years of mediocrity. Obviously, the trustees didn't see any signs that Ty's 4th and 5th years were going to be any different, and they decided to chase an urban legend instead.

And now we have a new coach, and all the carrying-on in the world ain't a-gonna change it.

Honestly, there was WAY less hue-and-cry when Tampa Bay unceremoniously dumped Tony Dungy several years ago, and Dungy was WAY more successful with the Bucs than Ty ever was with Notre Dame. Can we get some perspective here, people?
 
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mrf_7

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Re: Ty first coach fired before his contract expired; Ty first coach to have his lawyer/agent negotiate a "get out/buy out early" clause in his contract 3 years ago. Another first for Ty, as no other coach would have wanted this possibility lingering in the back of his mind.

A fact overlooked by the majority of closet Ty fans/ND haters (seems to be the same species, eh?)
 
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NDLyght37

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mrf_7 said:
Re: Ty first coach fired before his contract expired; Ty first coach to have his lawyer/agent negotiate a "get out/buy out early" clause in his contract 3 years ago. Another first for Ty, as no other coach would have wanted this possibility lingering in the back of his mind.

A fact overlooked by the majority of closet Ty fans/ND haters (seems to be the same species, eh?)
Not really, you can be a fan of a solid, honorable coach AND a fan of the University. I agree with VY that Ty deserved another year, but I think that both he & ND are in better situations now.

And to anyone who has a problem with Willingham having a buy-out clause...get over it. What Ty did was very smart. In this age of win-now-or-else, where coaches can get fired for 8 or 9 win seasons, I would think that any coach would want some security for his family.
 
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onedomer

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bmf175 said:
Yes I agree... I was raised a Catholic but do not consider myself a Catholic or devoted to any Religion. I dont think being Catholic is a Must in order to be a ND fan.
That would be like saying you have to be Irish to support ND. Its not a deciding factor on who can play or support ND.

After all you dont even need to be Catholic to attend ND anymore.

Agreed! I graduated from ND in '83, as a Lutheran, and didn't convert to Catholicism until '93. (My wife is Catholic)
 

irishgo8

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bmf175 said:
Yes I agree... I was raised a Catholic but do not consider myself a Catholic or devoted to any Religion. I dont think being Catholic is a Must in order to be a ND fan.
That would be like saying you have to be Irish to support ND. Its not a deciding factor on who can play or support ND.

After all you dont even need to be Catholic to attend ND anymore.
I am sorry - i wrote that wrong.

I meant to say that u cant hate catholics and love ND at the same time.
 

jiggafini19

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TexMexDomer said:
[
He was given an opportunity to make an impact in the most prestigious university in the country and he failed poor and simple. Sportswriter Glenn Dickey of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote exactly three years ago on New Years Day that Ty made a big mistake by taking the ND job because he would show just how mediocre a coach he is with the whole spotlight of the press and fans shining on him. Boy, he sure proved it with flying colors!!

Furthermore, quit trying to make the "N" word sound as if it's a sacrilege against the papacy or something. It's just a WORD!! It's used constantly in the minority community. I'm more bothered by those who misuse the Good Lord's name.

Well put, TexMex. The new era is almost here. Go AFC. Get the Patriots outta there so we can finally get moving. Ty is gone. Nothing changes that. Not black or white, but a green issue here. Green like Dead Presidents green.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ready to officially have a coaching staff and spring football will be here before you know it. Haven't missed a Blue-Gold game in over ten years. I'll be there for this one.
 

irishgo8

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well i think it is time to start downloading the ND fight song - i googled it yesterday.
 

Aerosmith777

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What a rat bastard. First he attacks Notre Dame, then he attacks Catholicism. Oh wait, I forgot, its ok to attack Catholics left and right and call us whatever you want, but fire a black head coach who was terrible and you get crucified (no pun intended)....what an f-ing double standard.

My favorite was "Its virtually unheard of to fire a coach before he gets 4-5 seasons..." THERE WERE LIKE 8 COACHES THIS YEAR FIRED AFTER ONLY 3 SEASONS!!!!!! I really can't wait till Charlie gets some time to rebuild the program and Notre Dame starts taking names and whooping ass again. Lets see what all these critics have to say then.
 

irishgo8

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Exaclty....Why svoboda put that on this site i dont know - there is enough of that c*** on the web and espn. Thats were i go when i feel mad
 

Aerosmith777

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I hate to admit it, but even ESPN is well-mannered enough to lay of the religion and the Catholic Church. They at least keep the discussion relatively in the realm of football.
 

irishgo8

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Aerosmith777 said:
I hate to admit it, but even ESPN is well-mannered enough to lay of the religion and the Catholic Church. They at least keep the discussion relatively in the realm of football.
Pretty much - i saw one article though............Catholics were attacked. but i agree that at least they stay within sports and race and dont start the religion, etc attack.
 
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NDLyght37

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irishgo8 said:
didnt see lyght jumping to this one to defend that article and Ty :)
LOL...I think I've made my points clear on "Willingham-Gate":

1. I think TyWillie is a solid coach. Not great, but also not the second coming of Davie...just a solid coach.

2. I think TyWillie is an "old-school" coach. He's kind of like the African-American version of JoePa in the sense of how he runs his program on & off the field.

3. I think TyWillie is a very solid human being. If I had a son, I would feel comfortable trusting him to Tyrone Willingham for 3-5 years.

4. Finally, I did think TyWillie deserved one more season to at least coach through a full recruiting class. But I'm happy with Weis & I'm happy Willingham was able to get a good D-I job so quickly.

The reason why I didn't jump in on this article is because it was just inaccurate. Do I think there is a problem with minority hirings at major colleges? Absolutley. You can't tell me that out of all the D-I jobs, only two Blacks, and no Hispanics or Asians are qualified for the jobs. I think there is still a "good ol' boys network" that exists in college football (and corporate America if we want to get real). But It's also absurd that in a sport where probably 75% of the players are minorities, that only 3 coaches are men of color. That's why I side with the BCA (which is not only for Black coaches, but for all coaches of color). Hopefully someday we can get to the point where Black/Hispanic/Asian coaches are hired & fired just as often as White coaches...but until they get the opportunity, I still think it's a valid issue. This article though, was not valid.
 

irishgo8

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NDLyght37 said:
LOL...I think I've made my points clear on "Willingham-Gate":

1. I think TyWillie is a solid coach. Not great, but also not the second coming of Davie...just a solid coach.

2. I think TyWillie is an "old-school" coach. He's kind of like the African-American version of JoePa in the sense of how he runs his program on & off the field.

3. I think TyWillie is a very solid human being. If I had a son, I would feel comfortable trusting him to Tyrone Willingham for 3-5 years.

4. Finally, I did think TyWillie deserved one more season to at least coach through a full recruiting class. But I'm happy with Weis & I'm happy Willingham was able to get a good D-I job so quickly.

The reason why I didn't jump in on this article is because it was just inaccurate. Do I think there is a problem with minority hirings at major colleges? Absolutley. You can't tell me that out of all the D-I jobs, only two Blacks, and no Hispanics or Asians are qualified for the jobs. I think there is still a "good ol' boys network" that exists in college football (and corporate America if we want to get real). But It's also absurd that in a sport where probably 75% of the players are minorities, that only 3 coaches are men of color. That's why I side with the BCA (which is not only for Black coaches, but for all coaches of color). Hopefully someday we can get to the point where Black/Hispanic/Asian coaches are hired & fired just as often as White coaches...but until they get the opportunity, I still think it's a valid issue. This article though, was not valid.
I think the Numbers arent there - otherwise i agree with u lyght everything said there the article was a peice of C*** and i think schools are willling to hire minority coaches - but there arent any to hire...look at who there is UCLA mediocre, ND mediocre, and Mississippi State 3-8 - u dont have ANY1 to hire
 
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NDLyght37

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irishgo8 said:
I think the Numbers arent there - otherwise i agree with u lyght everything said there the article was a peice of C*** and i think schools are willling to hire minority coaches - but there arent any to hire...look at who there is UCLA mediocre, ND mediocre, and Mississippi State 3-8 - u dont have ANY1 to hire
True...but I think you have to take a chance on some guys. There are plenty of good offensive or defensive coordinators out there that just need a break. Urban Meyer is a perfect example of an assistant coach who got a break and ran with it.

I just think college football needs to be more like college basketball. There's a grooming process with assistant coaches in general (like Steve Alford) and minority coaches specifically (like Johnny Dawkins at Duke). I just don't see minority coaches getting the opportunities to advance in college football.

3-8 record notwithstanding, Sly Croom was a great assistant coach for years, and he should have gotten the Alabama job over Shula's boy. Because he didn't, he kind of was forced into taking over a terrible team...but they did beat Florida, so I expect good things from that program (if he's given time to build it).
 

irishgo8

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NDLyght37 said:
True...but I think you have to take a chance on some guys. There are plenty of good offensive or defensive coordinators out there that just need a break. Urban Meyer is a perfect example of an assistant coach who got a break and ran with it.

I just think college football needs to be more like college basketball. There's a grooming process with assistant coaches in general (like Steve Alford) and minority coaches specifically (like Johnny Dawkins at Duke). I just don't see minority coaches getting the opportunities to advance in college football.

3-8 record notwithstanding, Sly Croom was a great assistant coach for years, and he should have gotten the Alabama job over Shula's boy. Because he didn't, he kind of was forced into taking over a terrible team...but they did beat Florida, so I expect good things from that program (if he's given time to build it).
i understand but i dont think that (not trying to be against minoritys or anything) that civil rights went a little too far...for example i had better grades and more experience at a position then a minority but he got the job cause of his skin color...but yes i agree not enough minority coacs
 
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