OK, so Kenny Rogers cheated......

[TheIrishHammer]

This is indisputable, irrefutable and undeniable. Three games in a row that mysterious, pine tar-colored blob appeared on his pitching hand, precisely in the spot where the tips of his fingers can reach it. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he's pitched his best ever postseason games during this stretch.

Soooooo, the question is, does MLB do anything? They have a pitcher, a 41-year-old pitcher on the precipice of passing the consecutive scoreless innings in the postseason record and now they have a cheater.

What is a Selig to do?

 

[tommy]

damn kenny rodgers pitch's too hardy har har

 

[tedwick]

well, considering once the junk was gone, he pitched even better than the first inning, i doubt they do anything about it. without whatever it was, rogers was still DOMINANT. he allowed one hit in 7 innings. also, one wonders why rogers was so nonchalant about it. he wasn't even trying to hide the stuff, which makes me think that it wasn't anything illegal...

It's really too bad there are all these questions, because his performance was absolutely lights out last night. all the lies about it really bother me, but it doesn't negate the fact that kenny rogers has pitched excellent.

and, to steal an argument from espn, if the cardinals didn't make a big deal about it, why should anyone else? they could have nipped the thing in the bud by challenging it at the end of the first inning like they should have.

 

[tommy]

it seems like the ump would know if he had something on the ball dont they check it periodicaly i dont know i havent watched a baseball game since slim barry was in pittsburge

 

[luckofirish8]

well, considering once the junk was gone, he pitched even better than the first inning, i doubt they do anything about it. without whatever it was, rogers was still DOMINANT. he allowed one hit in 7 innings. also, one wonders why rogers was so nonchalant about it. he wasn't even trying to hide the stuff, which makes me think that it wasn't anything illegal...

It's really too bad there are all these questions, because his performance was absolutely lights out last night. all the lies about it really bother me, but it doesn't negate the fact that kenny rogers has pitched excellent.

and, to steal an argument from espn, if the cardinals didn't make a big deal about it, why should anyone else? they could have nipped the thing in the bud by challenging it at the end of the first inning like they should have.

you are assuming that he didn't just place the "junk" somewhere else...say maybe not in plain site.

Just a thought!

 

[TheIrishHammer]

it seems like the ump would know if he had something on the ball dont they check it periodicaly i dont know i havent watched a baseball game since slim barry was in pittsburge

A pitcher only needs a bit of pine tar to give him added grip, so it wouldn't necessarily be noticeable to the umpire.

 

[luckofirish8]

rogers is also an idoit, so he may have not even noticed that he placed the pine tar (or whatever it was) on the palm of his throwing hand.

 

[luckofirish8]

it seems like the ump would know if he had something on the ball dont they check it periodicaly i dont know i havent watched a baseball game since slim barry was in pittsburge

this could be the case, but if I'm not mistaken the average "lifespan" of a MLB baseball is something like 6 pitches. So, they would have to do a lot of checking, which they don't.

 

[tommy]

honestly in this world in this day in age i wouldnt doubt curruption at any level . Can any one seriously say they think things are done on the up an up . from gov to medical to any other thing you can think of .

 

[TheIrishHammer]

well, considering once the junk was gone, he pitched even better than the first inning, i doubt they do anything about it. without whatever it was, rogers was still DOMINANT. he allowed one hit in 7 innings. also, one wonders why rogers was so nonchalant about it. he wasn't even trying to hide the stuff, which makes me think that it wasn't anything illegal...

It's really too bad there are all these questions, because his performance was absolutely lights out last night. all the lies about it really bother me, but it doesn't negate the fact that kenny rogers has pitched excellent.

and, to steal an argument from espn, if the cardinals didn't make a big deal about it, why should anyone else? they could have nipped the thing in the bud by challenging it at the end of the first inning like they should have.

Maybe it helped him, maybe it didn't. This should not take away from the fact that he cheated, lied about it, but was too stupid to clue in his manager.

The fact that you think a MLB pitcher would go out to the mound in a World Series game with a wad of goop on his pitching hand and not know it makes me think the partisan blinders might be on a bit too tight. Personally, I don't consider a pitcher trying to get an edge all that big a deal. Hell, Whitey Ford is on record stating that he cut up the ball any chance he got.

That said, Kenny was stupid enough to get caught doing it and caught lying about it.....twice.

I say MLB and Selig take the easy way out and do nothing about it. And the reason LaRussa isn't making that much of a stink about it is because he and Leyland are best buds.

20 years of postseason futility and magically, after having been caught on tape with a mysterious pine tar-colored spread on his pitching hand, he's set to break Christy Mathewson's nearly century old record.

Interesting......

 

[TheIrishHammer]

rogers is also an idoit, so he may have not even noticed that he placed the pine tar (or whatever it was) on the palm of his throwing hand.

Are you aware that ESPN pulled tape from Rogers' other starts this postseason against the Yankees and A's and have video proof of that very same pine tar-colored substance on his pitching hand?

What's the saying?.........3 strikes and you're out?

 

[tedwick]

this could be the case, but if I'm not mistaken the average "lifespan" of a MLB baseball is something like 6 pitches. So, they would have to do a lot of checking, which they don't.

to paraphrase the supervisor of officiating, this wasn't the umps' first saturday away from home... if the cards noticed something funny with the ball, i'll bet the ump did. i think the situation was handled correctly. they asked rogers to wash it off, he did, and that was that.

 

[luckofirish8]

Are you aware that ESPN pulled tape from Rogers' other starts this postseason against the Yankees and A's and have video proof of that very same pine tar-colored substance on his pitching hand?

What's the saying?.........3 strikes and you're out?

I wasn't aware, but I'm not really all that surprised. 23 scoreless post-season innings from any pitcher is unbelievable...much less Kenny Rogers.

 

[tommy]

is any one amazed by this. hell preists, senetors, and judges are all getting caught doing things to /with children a pitcher in baseball doctoring the ball doesnt serprise me . corruption is ramped the guy that does things in a fair way is the minority .

 

[TheIrishHammer]

to paraphrase the supervisor of officiating, this wasn't the umps' first saturday away from home... if the cards noticed something funny with the ball, i'll bet the ump did. i think the situation was handled correctly. they asked rogers to wash it off, he did, and that was that.

If the umpire noticed something funny with the ball, and noticed the gallon of pine tar on Kenny's hand, then he didn't handle the situation correctly. In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[luckofirish8]

to paraphrase the supervisor of officiating, this wasn't the umps' first saturday away from home... if the cards noticed something funny with the ball, i'll bet the ump did. i think the situation was handled correctly. they asked rogers to wash it off, he did, and that was that.

are you sure that the supervisor of officiating wasn't just protecting the umps'.

Roger's has been quoted as saying that the ump asked him to remove it, but he was also quoted as saying that another player told him of the substance. After which, he removed it.

Hey, at least, the supervisor of officiating has his story straight.

Again...what's to say that Roger's didn't place the substance somewhere else not so visible?

If in fact Roger's did the same thing in his previous series than there is no question in my mind that he has cheated multiple times this postseason.

Will anything be done?...probably not.

 

[Clotho]

This isn't that big a deal. Baseball has allowed pitchers that "cheated" in this way into the hall of fame on a regular basis, with their having cheated this way treated as a sort of lovable character flaw. Not all cheating is created equal. In baseball, a crafty pitcher messing with the ball isn't taken very seriously, and is regarded as gamesmanship. Next is corking the bat, which is considered a real offense but is still not taken very seriously, and is kind of a funny thing in most cases. Next is steroids, which is now being taken deadly seriously. Last is gambling and putting the legitimacy of the contest in question, which is in a league of its own.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

This isn't that big a deal. Baseball has allowed pitchers that "cheated" in this way into the hall of fame on a regular basis, with their having cheated this way treated as a sort of lovable character flaw. Not all cheating is created equal. In baseball, a crafty pitcher messing with the ball isn't taken very seriously, and is regarded as gamesmanship. Next is corking the bat, which is considered a real offense but is still not taken very seriously, and is kind of a funny thing in most cases. Next is steroids, which is now being taken deadly seriously. Last is gambling and putting the legitimacy of the contest in question, which is in a league of its own.

I'm not disagreeing. Hell, I even mentioned Whitey Ford and his cheating. However, the new question on the table is why is Kenny Rogers so stupid as to use a sticky substance that is visible to Stevie Wonder?

 

[guff]

Rogers didn't apply the pine tar directly to the heel of his hand. It was most likely inside glove and transferred from his glove to his hand. Here's a good article about junk balling

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html

 

[Clotho]

I'm not disagreeing. Hell, I even mentioned Whitey Ford and his cheating. However, the new question on the table is why is Kenny Rogers so stupid as to use a sticky substance that is visible to Stevie Wonder?

Well, I'm not sure he IS stupid, to judge by the "fallout" from this. He's winning all his games impressively, his team is winning his starts, and he's not being reprimanded. Kenny is an a-hole, for sure, but right now he looks pretty smart. The question is the next start, which should be incredibly interesting.

 

[ndficoop]

"I did not have contact relations with that pine tar....

"I did not have contact relations with that pine tar....

I never placed that tar on my palm.
Now, it's time for me to go back to doing the work of the Tiger fans."
We can thank Clinton for the era of the pine tar on the palm.

 

[luckofirish8]

Rogers didn't apply the pine tar directly to the heel of his hand. It was most likely inside glove and transferred from his glove to his hand. Here's a good article about junk balling

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html

This would make sense if Kenny Roger's was Jim Abbott, but he is not (Jim is way more classy). Following me here, the substance was on Roger's pitching hand...not his glove hand.

Also, in the days of Ford and Gaylord Perry junking the ball was completely legal. Thus, it was not cheated and probably the main reason these types of pitchers are in the HOF. Also probably the main reason it is now illegal.

I don't doubt that pitchers do it all the time, but for anyone to refute the act is amazing to me.

By the way, that is a great article.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

Rogers didn't apply the pine tar directly to the heel of his hand. It was most likely inside glove and transferred from his glove to his hand. Here's a good article about junk balling

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html

The pine tar was on his pitching hand, not his glove hand.

 

[Clotho]

This would make sense if Kenny Roger's was Jim Abbott, but he is not (Jim is way more classy). Following me here, the substance was on Roger's pitching hand...not his glove hand.

Also, in the days of Ford and Gaylord Perry junking the ball was completely legal. Thus, it was not cheated and probably the main reason these types of pitchers are in the HOF. Also probably the main reason it is now illegal.

I don't doubt that pitchers do it all the time, but for anyone to refute the act is amazing to me.

By the way, that is a great article.

Speeding is illegal too, but most of the time it's not taken seriously, and when someone's caught doing it, he gets a slap on the wrist and no one takes it very seriously. This sort of thing is baseball's speeding equivalent. It's really not much worse than stealing signs.

 

[luckofirish8]

Speeding is illegal too, but most of the time it's not taken seriously, and when someone's caught doing it, he gets a slap on the wrist and no one takes it very seriously. This sort of thing is baseball's speeding equivalent. It's really not much worse than stealing signs.

you are correct, but he hasn't even gotten his slap on the wrist. this could even be his third offense this postseason.

speeding doesn't effect a world championship, in Kenny's case it could. however, I see your point and don't really disagree all that much.

 

[guff]

The pine tar was on his pitching hand, not his glove hand.

This would make sense if Kenny Roger's was Jim Abbott, but he is not (Jim is way more classy). Following me here, the substance was on Roger's pitching hand...not his glove hand.

Did either of you bother to read the article? A major league bullpen coach (not me) said:

"Pine tar is the best, but you have to be careful with it because it's detectable. There are pine tar rags. But usually the pitchers keep the pine tar on their glove. They put it either deep in the pocket or the heel of the glove or inside the glove. Then when they take the glove off, with your index finger, middle finger or thumb, they get the pine tar.

"I am guessing Rogers didn't really know how to use pine tar, because he put too much on. It probably spread from his glove to the palm of his hand."

What this guy is saying is that Rogers didn't intend for the pine tar to get on the heel of his palm.

 

[luckofirish8]

Rogers didn't apply the pine tar directly to the heel of his hand. It was most likely inside glove and transferred from his glove to his hand.

yes, I did read the article, and it appears that you did say that Roger's had the pine tar inside of his glove. But no worries...in some way this (some kind of transfer from glove to hand) is what happened.

Of course, he didn't mean for the pine tar to rub off on his palm no one doubts this.

 

[tedwick]

well, the fact that, assuming it was pine tar, it inadvertently rubbed off in 3 consecutive games, that kind of flies in the face of the "kenny rogers knew he had something on his hand" logic... either he knew he had something or he didn't.

on a side note, it seems to have become a humorous side note to the tigers bullpen.

"You know, he has a terrible habit," Tigers coach Andy Van Slyke reported, "of eating Tootsie Rolls. And he happened to sit next to a heater."

Right. That was probably it. And there are undoubtedly other possibilities, too. Like, well, chocolate cake. Tigers closer Todd Jones tossed that one out there Sunday night.

"No," Van Slyke said, in instant denial mode. "You can't bring cake on the bench. You've got to eat something with a wrapper on it."

All right. How about soup? That's about the same color as Rogers' hand.

"Nope," Van Slyke said. "No utensils allowed on the bench. But if we were playing in Japan, it might have been wasabi."

OK, so if this were the Japan tour, we might be on to something. But since this is the World Series, that's out.

So was there any chance, us media madmen persisted, that it might have been pine tar? And Van Slyke was just about the perfect person to ask, too, since he was seen in the dugout in what appeared to be a long, between-innings chat with Rogers after the first inning Sunday.

But in truth, "I wasn't involved in the conversation," Van Slyke quipped. "Just, when I shook Kenny's hand, it took me 30 seconds to get unstuck."

i'm glad to see that it hasn't gotten in anyone's head. now, todd jones needs to learn how to catch the ball, however.

 

[Pete]

I say MLB and Selig take the easy way out and do nothing about it. And the reason LaRussa isn't making that much of a stink about it is because he and Leyland are best buds.
Interesting......

MLB cannot do anything about it now. LaRussa would have had to ask the umpire to check Kenny out last night, they would have found the "substance," then determined whether it was forgein or not, if they believed it was forgein, they would have thrown him out of the game, and he would receive a 10 suspension. Cannot do anything after the fact.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

is any one amazed by this. hell preists, senetors, and judges are all getting caught doing things to /with children a pitcher in baseball doctoring the ball doesnt serprise me . corruption is ramped the guy that does things in a fair way is the minority .

"Preists, Senators and Judges are getting caught doing things to/with children"

Said officials are now getting nabbed for putting pine tar on boys and girls around the nation??? Yikes...I'm gonna have to chain the youngin's to the wall to avoid this epidemic. Lock down the fort, boys...the Senators are coming!!!