Charlie Promised Better

[phork]

Yah Yah I know what you are thinking. Now shut up.

Notre Dame fans expect more out of Charlie Weis and Company - NCAA Football - SI.com

 

[JefMaj]

We know Phork - he's not your DickRod - - - then again, he's not under formal NCAA investigation.

 

[phork]

Don't even go there. Explayers had some sour grapes and whined. Fact is almost every, if not every, college does this. While not supervised officially, its amazing how many coaches have offices in weight rooms or other places where they can "unsupervise" players.

 

[irishtrain]

Must be getting to be a player when SI starts giving you $%#@. Let 'em hate.

 

[WaveDomer]

The Balloon Boy quote was original... and funny. /sarcasm

 

[philipm31]

Just curious, but did Davie go to TWO BCS bowl games in back to back years?

No? Just what I thought.

 

[weisbank4]

I think the article was spot on. A lot of ND fans were "proud" or "happy" to just look like they belonged on the field with SC.

The real smarts of that article was the dependence on skill position players. Even back with BQ - it was Quinn, Walker, Samardija, and Stovall. Remove 1 or 2 of them and we were screwed.

Its still the same. In the trenches we are suspect. Both sides of the ball. We are so used to absolutely atrocious running games that this year seems good but were getting 3.7 yards per carry. That is abysmal. I remember when ND backs averaged 6 yards a carry every year. Reggie Brooks I believe averaged 8 one year.

 

[mick2]

for the love of everything that is good and holy SHUT UP ABOUT CHARLIE ALREADY!

You may not like him( I do ) but he is still OUR coach support him and quit acting like a bunch of babies.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Just curious, but did Davie go to TWO BCS bowl games in back to back years?

No? Just what I thought.

Now shut the hell up phork.

Easy there. While I give his post a huge collective YAWWWWWWWNNNNN, and I agree with your point, it's still a message board, and Phork didn't say anything that many ND fans aren't saying. Give him your opinion, but no need to tell him that. I'm going to edit your post and forget about it...

 

[neags23]

What a dumb article. Seriously.

There were complainers that the Irish didn't have the recruits, and then Charlie brought in top classes. There were complainers during the terrible '07 season, and now the Irish are starting to win more.

Now winning games isn't enough? Why isn't there an article written about how USC "only" beat ND by a TD and was a second away from tying? Or how ND beat a team that USC couldn't? Or how ND beat a team Ohio St. couldn't.

Dumb article. So winning isn't enough, huh? If ND pulls out a national championship in the next couple of years, will that not be enough, either? Will the articles then say that they should have multiple titles? Or will they focus on the lack of Heisman winners lately?

It's always something.

But similar to what irishtrain said above, you don't see anyone writing articles like this about BC or Washington or Alabama (people call Alabama 'elite' now, but how quickly they forget that 'Bama was 4-9 in '03, 6-6 in '04, 6-7 in '06 and 7-6 in '07... I don't recall dumb articles like this written about them last year when they only beat Kentucky by 3 and winning wasn't enough).

Stupid articles...

 

[phork]

I didn't say anything, I was forwarding an article in regards to ND Football. Don't attack me, attack the author of the article. I like to bring discussion to a message board (GO FIGURE), good or bad.

And like one of the previous posters said, I think the point of the article is that there was a time when playing teams like Purdue and BC was just an after thought. The real debate was how much ND would beat them by.

Charlie is the coach at ND, but that does NOT exclude him from criticism.

And dearest Philip, when you reach 100 posts your opinion might matter a little more to me.

 

[weisbank4]

Its not a dumb article at all. ND's dependence on skill position guys is very evident. There are a lot of times you just need a tough 3 yards and we usually cant get it on the ground.

It is improving but I see even in recruiting its easy for us to land some 4 star WRs and running backs but not so much with interior linemen.

 

[mick2]

I didn't say anything, I was forwarding an article in regards to ND Football. Don't attack me, attack the author of the article. I like to bring discussion to a message board (GO FIGURE), good or bad.

And like one of the previous posters said, I think the point of the article is that there was a time when playing teams like Purdue and BC was just an after thought. The real debate was how much ND would beat them by.

Charlie is the coach at ND, but that does NOT exclude him from criticism.

And dearest Philip, when you reach 100 posts your opinion might matter a little more to me.

what kind of discussion did you expect from bringing this article up.

at what point does the criticism stop? we are 5-2, with a very good chance at heading to a 3rd bcs bowl in 5 years.

These posts/articles are written to get a reaction out of the biggest college football fanbase in the country.

And evidently we are the dumbest college football fanbase because we fall for it hook, line and sinker every time.

I cant tell you how many threads ive seen about the next thing cowherd was saying about us.

I remember cowherd kissing charlies ass in 05 and 06 and now hes back off the wagon tooting the sc, florida, texas, horn. and saying we wont be competing for national titles again.

I've listened to people say we are no longer an elite program and never will be again. i have heard people practically lose their head on the air when someone mentions Jimmy Clausen as a heisman contender.

I've heard it all, and the last place i expect it from is a bunch of Irish fans, but low and behold i come to this message board AFTER a win and there are topics Galore about CW this and CW that.

At some point it gets very old and tiresome and its an impossible battle. we get it, some people just wont like CW, and some people Will. Why dont we talk about something else for a change.

we have a top 25 football team with a Heisman contending Qb, biletnikoff contending WR (2 really), and a Mackey contending Tight end. We've been in every game, and i love saturdays. i havent felt this way since 05. lets enjoy it.

 

[kmoose]

The real smarts of that article was the dependence on skill position players. Even back with BQ - it was Quinn, Walker, Samardija, and Stovall. Remove 1 or 2 of them and we were screwed.

Its still the same.

So you're saying that if we lost, say..........Michael Floyd, the offense would fall apart?

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

EXCELLENT POINT!!!

We have lost the number 1 WR on the team and we finally have the depth for other people to step up

 

[neags23]

Its not a dumb article at all. ND's dependence on skill position guys is very evident. There are a lot of times you just need a tough 3 yards and we usually cant get it on the ground.

It is improving but I see even in recruiting its easy for us to land some 4 star WRs and running backs but not so much with interior linemen.

It's dumb because it's not focusing on the ND's dependence on skill guys. That's one paragraph in the entire article. If there was an article about that, okay. Sure. Maybe.

But the article is about how simply winning a game isn't enough and times have changed for ND, and blah blah blah.

That's dumb. Again, people think Alabama is in the "ruling class" as the author puts it. That's after 1 great season in the last 6. Before that, they averaged 6 wins a year for 5 years. You think if ND had one amazing season after 5 mediocre ones, they'd declare the Irish to be in the "ruling class"?

That's why it's dumb.

 

[goldandblue]

I still go back to this one thing when people are bitching about Charlie. He is the head coach which mostly deals with all of the administrative issues and ultimately has the final say so in most things. He is also the OC so he deals with the Offense in it's entirety.

Our Offense is in the top 10 in the Nation last time I looked.

Our Defense is ranked 117th out of 120 DI teams in passing defense and 50th in Rushing Defense.

Is this Charlie's Fault? Now I know people are going to say yes because he hired both Brown and Tenuta yada yada yada. But he hired two professionals with very good backgrounds and I am sure this is not the performance he expected from his defense.

I don't necessarily think that Tenuta or Brown are bad coaches. I think Tenuta has a certain M.O. as a DC and he is going to be that no matter what. Unfortunately without the Front 4 Tenuta's scheme is pretty much useless. Until we get some passrusher/runstoppers on the front Tenuta's scheme will continue to look bad.

 

[weisbank4]

So you're saying that if we lost, say..........Michael Floyd, the offense would fall apart?

Well let me ask you this - at the end of the UM game, we lost Floyd for the final half quarter. We needed 1 first down to ice the game. The 3rd down throw goes to a true Freshman receiver who breaks the wrong way on an out pattern. We lose the game.

Versus USC, we have 3 cracks at it from the 4. All passes. We have Duval Kamara as the point man on the final play, he falls down and a perfect pass zips past.

So you tell me, does Michael Floyd not being in account for any difference in these outcomes?

 

[irishfan]

That article lost what little credibility it had when it called the 4th and goal call from the 1 a "gadget play." It's just a more power-alligned formation of the wildcat. Either this guy was really reaching for another criticism or he thinks that the Wildcat formation only produces trick plays. And it worked pretty well the one time they ran it against USC on the goal line.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I'm one of those who is caught in the middle with CW. I'm not so sure hes "the guy" and I do not think he should be fired. But all in all I think these article is ridiculous.

If say Florida lost...

Tim Tebow
Demps
Hernandez
Cooper

wouldnt they kind of fall off?

or if USC lost

Barkley
McKnight
RoJo
Damien Williams

woudlnt they lose a few games? A wait...they did...washington?

All teams have 3 or 4 players at the skill position whom are vital to winning. If we took out the 3 or 4 best players on each of the top 5 teams, would they be in the top 5? No..they would not be.

ND lost its best play maker and still field a top 10 offense. What more does this clown want? Wait til Floyd gets back. Pitt is in some trouble.

My concern is the defense. Its getting better. I think the secondary shake up will make the defense a lot better.

GO IRISH

 

[tommyIRISH23]

ND has a tradition of winning and doing the magically impossible. It fell into a rut with a recent culture of losing. It happens to every team at some point. The confidence and swagger on back in the program for the first time in 15 years. As a program beating BC and Purdue is not a big deal. But for this team who is trying to turn the edge and climb over the top to a point where "the echoes are woken up" where ND is back to on top...these games are huge.

 

[weisbank4]

I'm one of those who is caught in the middle with CW. I'm not so sure hes "the guy" and I do not think he should be fired. But all in all I think these article is ridiculous.

If say Florida lost...

Tim Tebow
Demps
Hernandez
Cooper

wouldnt they kind of fall off?

or if USC lost

Barkley
McKnight
RoJo
Damien Williams

woudlnt they lose a few games? A wait...they did...washington?

All teams have 3 or 4 players at the skill position whom are vital to winning. If we took out the 3 or 4 best players on each of the top 5 teams, would they be in the top 5? No..they would not be.

ND lost its best play maker and still field a top 10 offense. What more does this clown want? Wait til Floyd gets back. Pitt is in some trouble.

My concern is the defense. Its getting better. I think the secondary shake up will make the defense a lot better.

GO IRISH

We cant depend on the defense to win us a game, we cant depend on our running game to win us a game.......even versus Purdue. We have to depend on Jimmy Clausens arm and Golden Tates playmaking ability.

That is a fragile situation. Just like if BQ wouldve gone down. Yes, most teams would struggle as did USC and Im sure everyone else if they lost their starting qb, but our dip would be dramatic.

 

[AlumniHall98]

I didn't say anything, I was forwarding an article in regards to ND Football. Don't attack me, attack the author of the article. I like to bring discussion to a message board (GO FIGURE), good or bad.

And like one of the previous posters said, I think the point of the article is that there was a time when playing teams like Purdue and BC was just an after thought. The real debate was how much ND would beat them by.

Charlie is the coach at ND, but that does NOT exclude him from criticism.

And dearest Philip, when you reach 100 posts your opinion might matter a little more to me.

That might be true, but let's face it, THESE are not THOSE times...this is 2009, and the landscape of college football is completely different from what it was back in the day when Purdue and BC were "after thoughts". These teams collectively recruit top notch athletes from across the country, and with more and more D1 programs coming onto the scene, stealing away would-be recruits out of prior hot bed areas, it has become increasingly more difficult to get the players that ND used to get. Now, I know Charlie has recruited well IN SPITE of these obstacles, but the truth is, he hasn't really been able to do so on the defensive side of the ball - we have a derth of talent at nearly every skill position on the defense, aside from middel linebacker where we now have a stud freshman recruit named Teo. But Charlie needs to get more guys like that in order to get us back to an elite status.

I for one believe he can do it, but only time will tell. If he falls short, and if this team never ascends back to the heights from which it once fell, I would agree that he is not the right man for the job. But, to this point at least, he has done enough to justify staying right where he is.

 

[jason_h537]

We cant depend on the defense to win us a game,

They just did win us a game

 

[GOLDENISTHYTATE]

I get really angry, and quite confused actually, when the media makes statements like Clausen and Tate saved us. Doesn't that still say something about Weis and his staff? They were able to recruit such players to ND, and then have helped develop them into the players they are today.

If we recruit great players who don't pan out, it is the staff's fault for not developing the player properly. If those great recruits become great players, they become anomalies and freakish athletes who owe no thanks to the staff that coaches them. It should go both ways

 

[phork]

what kind of discussion did you expect from bringing this article up.

Any discussion at all. And yah you are right. People like you do fall for stories like this hook line and sinker, EVERY time. Because you like to over re-act. Talk about. Don't agree with it or hate it that much then just don't read it. That is a choice that you have.

They just did win us a game

They might have done that just, but the fact is that I wouldn't bet my lunch on them doing it reliably.

It's dumb because it's not focusing on the ND's dependence on skill guys. That's one paragraph in the entire article. If there was an article about that, okay. Sure. Maybe.

But the article is about how simply winning a game isn't enough and times have changed for ND, and blah blah blah.

That's dumb. Again, people think Alabama is in the "ruling class" as the author puts it. That's after 1 great season in the last 6. Before that, they averaged 6 wins a year for 5 years. You think if ND had one amazing season after 5 mediocre ones, they'd declare the Irish to be in the "ruling class"?

That's why it's dumb.

Take out Clausen and Floyd, or Tate and Floyd and this team is dead. And if you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself.

Alabama not an elite team? If they aren't then I guess I am not sure who is these days.

Bottom line folks, if you don't like it, don't read it. If you want to talk about it, please do. Thats what this place is for. Not to give each other brown trombones for making another opposing QB a Heisman candidate.

 

[jason_h537]

Take out Clausen and Floyd, or Tate and Floyd and this team is dead. And if you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself.

Alabama not an elite team? If they aren't then I guess I am not sure who is these days.

Bottom line folks, if you don't like it, don't read it. If you want to talk about it, please do. Thats what this place is for. Not to give each other brown trombones for making another opposing QB a Heisman candidate.

Every team has players they can not afford to lose. Even the "elite". Ask Oklahoma.

 

[kmoose]

Well let me ask you this - at the end of the UM game, we lost Floyd for the final half quarter. We needed 1 first down to ice the game. The 3rd down throw goes to a true Freshman receiver who breaks the wrong way on an out pattern. We lose the game.

Versus USC, we have 3 cracks at it from the 4. All passes. We have Duval Kamara as the point man on the final play, he falls down and a perfect pass zips past.

So you tell me, does Michael Floyd not being in account for any difference in these outcomes?

I don't know. And neither do you.

 

[weisbank4]

I don't know. And neither do you.

I posted long ago and recently,(before the USC game) that I think Floyds absence was going to be the difference in that USC game and how can anybody argue that it wasnt?

Lost in all the Golden Tate admiration is that Golden Tate isnt even the best receiver on this team!! Floyd was unstoppable. He was on pace for about 1500 yards receiving.

 

[irishfan]

Lost in all the Golden Tate admiration is that Golden Tate isnt even the best receiver on this team!! Floyd was unstoppable. He was on pace for about 1500 yards receiving.

Golden is on pace for 1450+ yards.....and before the year I was with you thinking that Floyd was a way more complete receiver and an overall better one that Tate, but its pretty hard to make that argument now. Considering that Tate really has no other receiver to take away any attention from him and that he is literally the only deep threat on the team, I think right now he's more "unstoppable" than Floyd has ever been.