[NCAAF] vBook: Arizona State vs Boise State

[irishff1014]

The whole time that Moore has been at BSU they said they cant win against good teams just what they beat every good team they got thrown at them.

 

[Veer option]

BCS hypocrisy.

 

[palinurus]

The whole time that Moore has been at BSU they said they cant win against good teams just what they beat every good team they got thrown at them.

I get your point, and I am not dismissing it -- though BSU has lost to some good teams -- TCU in a bowl game, if I recall, and TCU this year.

I guess my point is they haven't had to play many good teams -- usually at the rate of maybe one a season. It's a lot easier to look good and get up for one game a year (assuming you have decent talent, which they do) than play a Notre Dame or SEC schedule and then have one loss seasons. I am just saying, I don't like to read too much into 11-1 seasons against their level of competition, even if they beat the one above average team they actually schedule (Oregon, Va Tech, Georgia).

Bottom line: I don't think they'd have pulled 11-1's against a Big Ten or SEC schedule, so why, I ask myself, do they get ranked as though they have?

 

[phork]

I get your point, and I am not dismissing it -- though BSU has lost to some good teams -- TCU in a bowl game, if I recall, and TCU this year.

I guess my point is they haven't had to play many good teams -- usually at the rate of maybe one a season. It's a lot easier to look good and get up for one game a year (assuming you have decent talent, which they do) than play a Notre Dame or SEC schedule and then have one loss seasons. I am just saying, I don't like to read too much into 11-1 seasons against their level of competition, even if they beat the one above average team they actually schedule (Oregon, Va Tech, Georgia).

Bottom line: I don't think they'd have pulled 11-1's against a Big Ten or SEC schedule, so why, I ask myself, do they get ranked as though they have?

They would have been atleast 10-2 with our schedule this year, and atleast competitive with Stanford and USC. I don't get the hate personally. They have been a solid team for what seems like forever now. But again I say that next year everyone will point and say "SEE, I TOLD YOU".

 

[jason_h537]

Bottom line: I don't think they'd have pulled 11-1's against a Big Ten or SEC schedule, so why, I ask myself, do they get ranked as though they have?

They embarrassed Georgia this year. I keep hearing people say they would struggle in conferences like (fill in the blank) but how do we know. Sure they would probably lose to LSU and Bama but who wouldn't? I don't see Florida or South Carolina beating Boise. Agree with Phork on this one. They likely would have been a 1-2 loss team with ND's schedule. They should have been a BCS lock. Instead they embarrass another AQ team on national TV. Then get disrespected for losing by a field goal to TCU (another very good team).

How I wish Boise ST could have played Michigan

 

[JadeBrecks]

I would have liked to see them play ok st.

 

[palinurus]

They would have been atleast 10-2 with our schedule this year, and atleast competitive with Stanford and USC. I don't get the hate personally. They have been a solid team for what seems like forever now. But again I say that next year everyone will point and say "SEE, I TOLD YOU".

I don't know that I agree. I am not at all sure they beat Michigan and Michigan State, and definitely believe they could be upset by another team on ND's schedule, just as they have been upset in their own garbage conference the last two years.

But that's my point; they always avoid the week in, week out banging and bruising that makes it hard to go 11-1 or 10-2 because they play a schedule of less physically talented and less physically imposing teams. I think that's why the SEC is so tough: there aren't a lot of breaks, even when Fla and Auburn have down years.

BSU has essentially one relatively tough OOC game per season (this year Georgia, which has little basis to be called an excellent team) and that's it. They just don't face the wear and tear that an average major conference team does. It's not that I think they have no talent, but their talent (and their oppositions' talent) is not of major conference caliber, a fact borne out by the number of BSU (and conference) draftees in the NFL draft. And the quality of opposition coaching is also inferior to most major conferences. There's a reason those spots are stepping stones for the better, but not all, coaches in that conference.

I just don't think they would hold up so well in a major conference; not saying they are garbage, just saying they don't deserve a pass into the BCS by going one-loss against that competition.

 

[palinurus]

They embarrassed Georgia this year. I keep hearing people say they would struggle in conferences like (fill in the blank) but how do we know. Sure they would probably lose to LSU and Bama but who wouldn't? I don't see Florida or South Carolina beating Boise. Agree with Phork on this one. They likely would have been a 1-2 loss team with ND's schedule. They should have been a BCS lock. Instead they embarrass another AQ team on national TV. Then get disrespected for losing by a field goal to TCU (another very good team).

How I wish Boise ST could have played Michigan

We don't know for sure, you are right, but we don't know either way. That's why we're shooting the bull about this. All we know is that they beat one decent OOC per year. Given their talent and the talent and size of their opposition, that doesn't convince me they'd hold up in a major conference against bigger teams, week in and week out. Btw, I saw the TCU game. They only lost by a missed FG because the refs gifted them a first down on a bogus pass interference to get them into FG range. They were beaten fairly.

As I wrote above, I think they easily lose three on ND's schedule, possibly more.

Anyway, I agree they should have had a better opponent. That was my first post on the subject. I'd love for them to smoke Michigan, but I am not so sure they would have.

 

[palinurus]

by the way, I'm not a BSU hater; I just think they unfairly get a free pass into the top ten.

 

[IrishinSyria]

We don't know for sure, you are right, but we don't know either way. That's why we're shooting the bull about this. All we know is that they beat one decent OOC per year. Given their talent and the talent and size of their opposition, that doesn't convince me they'd hold up in a major conference against bigger teams, week in and week out. Btw, I saw the TCU game. They only lost by a missed FG because the refs gifted them a first down on a bogus pass interference to get them into FG range. They were beaten fairly.

As I wrote above, I think they easily lose three on ND's schedule, possibly more.

Anyway, I agree they should have had a better opponent. That was my first post on the subject. I'd love for them to smoke Michigan, but I am not so sure they would have.

What was Moore's record against AQ schools? 8-0? That's not one a year, and it includes some damn good teams like VTech, Georgia, Oregon and Oklahoma... guarantee you they would not have lost 3 with ND's schedule this year.

p.s., you don't recall correctly. They beat TCU in the bowl game. You know, the year they finished 14-0. As for this year's TCU game, yes the pass interference call was iffy... but in their defense they were playing without like their top two or three CBs and their starting running back. Which were kind of key positions in that game, because if their secondary doesn't get carved or the backup RB doesn't fumble, no need to play what if because they never have to make that final drive to begin with.

 

[NYMIKE6]

TCU vs. Boise State rivalry i will miss depending on where they end up. Both the 08' and 09' bowl games where good ones.
08' TCU 17 Boise State 16
09' TCU 10 Boise State 17
It would be great if they ended up in the same conference but thats doubtful

 

[palinurus]

What was Moore's record against AQ schools? 8-0? That's not one a year, and it includes some damn good teams like VTech, Georgia, Oregon and Oklahoma... guarantee you they would not have lost 3 with ND's schedule this year.

p.s., you don't recall correctly. They beat TCU in the bowl game. You know, the year they finished 14-0. As for this year's TCU game, yes the pass interference call was iffy... but in their defense they were playing without like their top two or three CBs and their starting running back. Which were kind of key positions in that game, because if their secondary doesn't get carved or the backup RB doesn't fumble, no need to play what if because they never have to make that final drive to begin with.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Re TCU, I was thinking the year before when they lost to TCU (as MYMike points out). But even the year they went 14-0 they played Oregon and TCU, and that was it. And Oregon, who they beat in the season opener, got off to a weak start. They nearly lost to Purdue the next week. And they beat TCU, a a pretty good team, but one at their level (and one, I'd argue, that was also overranked).

I realize we're arguing blind here. We don't know for certain how they'd do. No question they caught Oklahoma with their pants down; as for the other big wins, that's my point: it's one thing to get up for your one big OOC game each year, when you can play up the chip on your shoulder, the disrespect factor, etc. It's another to have to beat even a ND-quality schedule, week in, week out. Those injuries you reference become more prevalent when you play bigger, stronger teams every week. It's just harder to sustain -- how does ND do against Stanford with Jonas Gray and Braxton Cave and Kapron Lewis-Moore? You get my point. But I guess we'll never really know.

 

[palinurus]

TCU vs. Boise State rivalry i will miss depending on where they end up. Both the 08' and 09' bowl games where good ones.
08' TCU 17 Boise State 16
09' TCU 10 Boise State 17
It would be great if they ended up in the same conference but thats doubtful

Thanks; I forgot one of those years. Yes, those were always exciting games. I think Gary Patterson is a first rate coach.

 

[phork]

Thanks; I forgot one of those years. Yes, those were always exciting games. I think Gary Patterson is a first rate coach.

Just a little protip for you. You see the button with the " and the +, use it and you can multiquote.

As for BSU, look at the SEC. You maybe have 1 or 3 elite teams, the rest are average, mostly garbage and then fill in with 1AA or D2 teams. I would have no hesitation picking BSU on a neutral field against anyone.

Why does BSU get a "free pass"? Because when you post double digit wins year in and year out, regardless of conference, you have a great team. Someone else said that Moore averaged 12.5 wins a year in his career, thats incredible