It sure is a good thing for the Naval Academy that they have superior athletes than nearly all the teams they play.
Why is nobody talking about...Paul Johnson
- Thread starter Stanito
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It sure is a good thing for the Naval Academy that they have superior athletes than nearly all the teams they play.
LOVEMYIRISH
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Look what happened when Nebraska met up with a disciplined team of equally talented players...they got owned.
The Triple option is merely a gimmicky offense that is no longer run since football has evolved past it.
irishtrain
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No fit at all, I live down here and a southern guy is not going to 'cotton' to Notre Dame. Plus his defense is not that good.
IrishAddiction
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reps. best first post i have seen in a very long time.
LOVEMYIRISH
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No one takes them seriously or preps for them. Including us. Let's face it...no big D changes this time. Tenuta got called out on that.
Florida's "option" in the last two years is balanced nearly 50/50 pass-run yards. In the previous two years it was even more pass-happy.
I can't stand Urban Liar, but even he knows the best teams are not going to be one-dimensional. Unlike Johnson.
irishranger
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the option is the best offense for a team that cannot get the same quality of players as some of the bigger programs. Let us not forget Lou ran the option, and won a NC. So don't bag on the option....
P.S. The spread offense the Florida, WV, Mich, and all the others are mutations of the triple option and the old wingback option.
P.S. The spread offense the Florida, WV, Mich, and all the others are mutations of the triple option and the old wingback option.
phork
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Pitt didn't have a hard time doing it. Good defenses have no problem neutralizing it. Bad defenses get exposed quickly.
kmoose
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There is NOTHING gimmicky about the Triple Option. In fact, a true option offense is the antithesis of gimmicky. It's about putting a hat on a hat, mano a mano, smashmouth, assignment football. Why do you think that almost every high school in the country ran it, or some version of it, for so many years?
I agree with you NDOM. Yeah, Pitt shut Navy down, but Navy is no Georgia Tech. GT led the nation in yards per carry, yards per game, etc. The played some pretty decent defenses to include North Carolina (Top 15), Virginia Tech, Georgia, etc.
The way you stop it, as in the way Pitt stopped Navy, is to get a substantial lead early...force them to throw. Navy had almost as many pass attempts against Pitt as it did the rest of the season combined.
If the option can be easily stopped by a good defense, then why are the majority of schools running the option in some form or another?
kmoose
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Even good defenses can have problems with the option. Holtz's offenses gave even great defenses fits.
phork
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There is your next triple option hit. You get behind you have no means to get a quick strike to get back into it.
kmoose
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Agreed...Georgia Tech also led the nation in yards per completion.
I'm afraid if we went with Johnson... we would be accepted of validating the argument that we are in the category of a Duke, Standford, Northwestern and the service academies... running a program built on discipline and acknowledging that the telent level is not there.
NDOM
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Thats not how things work. So would you rather go 6-6 with a pro-style offense or 9-3 with some form of option? I would rather have a disciplined option team instead of an undisciplined pro-style attack. And honestly I think a lot of people SHOULD consider us just like the service academies anyway since we cant beat them.
LOVEMYIRISH
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It's completely fair to bag on the option. Rockne ran a bunch of crap that we would never do today. The game has evolved past the option. It's that simple.
LOVEMYIRISH
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It would be great to have him here...but it would be sad knowing we would never be able to play for the title since we ran a gimmicky offense.
LOVEMYIRISH
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Actually assignment football is the EPITOME of gimmicky. The option is terribly easy to stop as Bama showed us tonight. Play smart, hold your assignment, and shut it down.
It's not that hard for a decent DC to stop it. You just need to get your kids to pick a man and hit them.
The whole point of the option is to confuse and cause UNdisciplined offenses to give up yards.
Hence why Urban Meyer uses it partially, but really focuses on his passing game.
irishfan
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I'm gonna have to disagree on the triple option. I agree that the limited way that Navy runs it wont let any team compete at the top level, but Johnson at least "opens up" the playbook. They're by no means throwing it all over the place, but they do at least throw it 10+ times a game. Also, Johnson has the QB Nesbitt do simple stuff such as taking a couple steps backwards before carrying out the option and it really does confuse the D. They've played a good schedule (only one non-BCS team) that ranks as the 17th toughest in the country. Against the best two defenses they've played against (UNC and VT) they scored 24 and 28 points and won both games. They've only been held under 20 points once this year and only held under 30 points four times. They average 35 points a game and even have a 1000 yard receiver. This is with a GT team that was always considered mediocre in the ACC before he got there.
kmoose
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If the option (not the spread option hybrid crap that Florida and many other schools have gone to, but the true option) is so easy to stop, then please explain to me why Navy (a way undersized, understrengthed team, year in and year out) has been the #1 rushing team in the entire country, 5 out of the last 8 seasons? Oh, and those other 3 seasons? They were 3rd in each of them. The option is not all that easy to defend, no matter what YOU may think about it.
LOVEMYIRISH
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Call me when they beat big teams.
Call me when ANY team beats a big team using the option.
It's been what 10 years? There's a reason for that. Coaches wised up, got better, and moved on.
phork
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+1
The biggest team Navy played this year was either Pitt or OSU, and both held them for 130 yards rushing. Oh and that loss to Hawaii? The Rainbows dropped 370 yards passing on them. Yah, the same team people got all excited about throttling in last years bowl game.
kmoose
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The discussion wasn't about winning big games. It takes both offense AND defense, to win big games. The discussion was about the triple option being gimmicky and easy to shut down, or not. Don't try to deflect the discussion to not winning big games, just because you find yourself on the wrong side of the debate.
LOVEMYIRISH
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I am not on the wrong side. That's the whole point. Only one successful coach in college football today thinks that running the option is a good idea. I merely concur with the judgment of all the coaches winning national titles and BCS games. The last team to win the Title with the option was Nebraska in 1997. They had a great run for a while, but then Defenses basically added speed to the mix and shut down the option.
You are the one on the wrong side of the issue since pretty much all but one successful coach in college ball and pro-ball DISAGREES with you.
kmoose
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So why is Navy's offense so successful, if the option is so easy to shut down?
LOVEMYIRISH
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It's generally who they play.
Navy Football - Midshipmen News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - College Football - ESPN
Not exactly a tough schedule...
And, given that easy schedule, Navy this year was #80 in Total Yards Per Game.
They were #52 in Scoring Offense.
Tell me how that is successful?
LOVEMYIRISH
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By the way, as regards why WE lost to them it was simple.
Tenuta played a very undisciplined game against them and he did not even make adjustments.
kmoose
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They were also the #3 rushing team. They may play a fairly easy schedule, but they run the ball well against EVERYONE.
Ohio State is #5 against the run, this year. In games not against a team called Navy, the Buckeyes defense has given up an average of 75 yards rushing per game. That's not a bad defense, not by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, against the Buckeyes, Navy ran for 186 yards. The Buckeyes gave up 10.8 points a game to teams not named Navy, yet Navy scored 27 points, on 4 TDs, against the Buckeyes.
Look, man, I'm not saying that it's easy, or even feasible, to win NCs with an option offense. But somewhere along the line someone stated that even a decent defense would rather easily shut down an option offense. That just ain't true. At least, it ain't true if your team can really execute the option well.