Reasons to Keep/Fire Weis

[NDisme]

I not trying to make excuses, but the 05 and 06teams had virtually no injuries, this year not so much not saying that much by it but it does make a difference.

 

[NDMontana]

I not trying to make excuses, but the 05 and 06teams had virtually no injuries, this year not so much not saying that much by it but it does make a difference.

Well that's an excuse. Same as questioning the refs in the Michigan, USC and Navy games. Jimmy Clausen is gimpy, Michael Floyd is hurt, refs screw the team, Armando is hurt, Charlie's doing good with the offense and being let down by the defense (Hey, he's the HEAD COACH not the Offensive Coordinator), the team is young (a boat load of juniors with two years or more of starting experience)....

I still think Charlie Weis has a shot to be great coach but he isn't right now. Maybe people will stop trotting out their excuses and just say "he's not good but it's obvious he has the potential to be great". He'll figure it out, I hope it's in South Bend but for the sake of the Lord....no more excuses please.

I'm sorry but Temple beat Navy, Michigan has been exposed and USC is obviously way down. Last minute wins against Purdue, Michigan State, Boston College and a now 3-6 Washington plus wins against Nevada and WSU....a win is a win but the way ND was beating bad teams should have been a red flag. We all got caught up in the hype.

 

[NDisme]

ok well i never said most of that just saying injuries do not help that is all bro nothing more, christ, imean do you think bc game is close if say gunnel was hurt, or damien williams was not playing for sc, and so on and so forth

 

[Merlin]

What is this setting us back years bullcrap? The team is stocked right now. The team will be stocked for the foreseeable future. The right coach could come right in and win instantly. This isn't like when Charlie started and everyone knew that 2007 would be a stinkfest. ND is deep at almost every position and they would be able to ride out 1 year if there was a coaching change right now.

As for the winning numbers theme. Stats are for losers. *points to the scoreboard.

WOW....we could ride out a single year, even though we're "stocked for the foreseeable future"..!?!

Make your mind up?

With the rumor mill in full swing regarding CW future, tell me how that translates as a, "positive," to respective declaries?

In regards to your last comment (losers etc) I was pointing out that it won't matter how many points our O put up, it might still not be enough for a win!

 

[phork]

Speaking of stats being a wonderful thing, Navy had 218 yards against Pitt. And whats the difference between Navy playing Towson State and Boise playing UC Davis? I think we can all agree that Navy is a pretty good team by the fact that they are 14-13 the past 6 years against BCS team/ND.

126 Net Yards rushing.

WOW....we could ride out a single year, even though we're "stocked for the foreseeable future"..!?!

Make your mind up?

With the rumor mill in full swing regarding CW future, tell me how that translates as a, "positive," to respective declaries?

In regards to your last comment (losers etc) I was pointing out that it won't matter how many points our O put up, it might still not be enough for a win!

With the talent at the skilled positions a 1 year blip on the recruiting front won't really cause any lingering effects.

 

[Merlin]

With the talent at the skilled positions a 1 year blip on the recruiting front won't really cause any lingering effects.

And you know that how?

It's not about a, "1 year blip," it's about those future players weighing up their options in regards to them declaring, if our HC position is in question, why would elite talent come to ND? (other than an education) Like I said earlier, it could put us back years.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Here are some more opinions. Pretty much what is being said on this site.

Scout.com: Tuesday Question - Should Weis Be Fired?

 

[phork]

And you know that how?

It's not about a, "1 year blip," it's about those future players weighing up their options in regards to them declaring, if our HC position is in question, why would elite talent come to ND? (other than an education) Like I said earlier, it could put us back years.

Look, the cupboard won't be left bare like it was after Willingham. Why would elite talent come to ND? Its certainly not just about a coach, while it helps a little bit. Fact is if they fire Weis this year the next coach will get to do mop up duty on what remains of this class. Now if they hire the right guy I believe whoever that is can turn things around on a dime. Regardless of whether Clausen and Tate go. This roster is stacked with O talent and I believe a real defensive coach can turn this D around to where its serviceable.

The big question I hear on here is what do we do if Charlie gets canned. We're going to lose this and that and ND football is going to suck for 5 more years. Guess what fellas? It sucks RIGHT NOW. Navy once is just barely acceptable, the law of averages says so. Twice, in 3 years? Unacceptable. The losses and near disasters that have happened this year have pushed me over the edge and I can say that I would put up with an average year with some fresh coaching on board. If you like it the way it is, congrats I am sure Faust is smiling at you where ever he is.

 

[JefMaj]

Bottom line - you don't fire a 9-3 Gator Bowl guy. 3-9; 7-6; and if he goes 10-3.... with stocked cupboards... it doesn't happen. I'm not sure it happens with 8-4, then 9-4.... with the losses we've had. Now, if we lost to MSU, USC, BC, and one more..... CW would be in worse shape. But, UM, Navy.... that's correctable next year.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Look, the cupboard won't be left bare like it was after Willingham. Why would elite talent come to ND? Its certainly not just about a coach, while it helps a little bit. Fact is if they fire Weis this year the next coach will get to do mop up duty on what remains of this class. Now if they hire the right guy I believe whoever that is can turn things around on a dime. Regardless of whether Clausen and Tate go. This roster is stacked with O talent and I believe a real defensive coach can turn this D around to where its serviceable.

The big question I hear on here is what do we do if Charlie gets canned. We're going to lose this and that and ND football is going to suck for 5 more years. Guess what fellas? It sucks RIGHT NOW. Navy once is just barely acceptable, the law of averages says so. Twice, in 3 years? Unacceptable. The losses and near disasters that have happened this year have pushed me over the edge and I can say that I would put up with an average year with some fresh coaching on board. If you like it the way it is, congrats I am sure Faust is smiling at you where ever he is.

That's assuming that the talent stays and doesn't jump if Charlie is fired.

 

[Sam Crow]

Bottom line - you don't fire a 9-3 Gator Bowl guy. 3-9; 7-6; and if he goes 10-3.... with stocked cupboards... it doesn't happen. I'm not sure it happens with 8-4, then 9-4.... with the losses we've had. Now, if we lost to MSU, USC, BC, and one more..... CW would be in worse shape. But, UM, Navy.... that's correctable next year.

Very true statement.
Quote from Scout.com: Tuesday Question

Q: Should Charlie Weis be fired?

A: Yes, but not just because Notre Dame lost to Navy over the weekend or will fail to qualify for a BCS bowl game for a third straight year. These types of decisions are not that cut-and-dry.

You fire a coach—or demote a quarterback or can the branch manager—because you no longer have confidence in that guy to get you to where you need to be. I believe that applies to Weis, who in five years has yet to elevate this title-hungry program to where it hopes to be. This is not about retribution or payback for unfulfilled expectations. Is he the right man to guide this blue and gold vessel? If you believe so, then ride out the rough waves the way Rutgers did with Greg Schiano or Wake Forest did with Jim Grobe. If not, then the school ought to sever ties and move in another direction. I fall into the latter camp, feeling as if Weis is an excellent recruiter and developer of quarterbacks, but may never get over the hump of mediocrity.

There is a disclaimer that needs to be put forth in this discussion. If the Irish is only able to make a vertical move by changing coaches, it ought to stand pat for another year. Why go through this process if you’re not going to hit a home run and make a dramatic upgrade? There are plenty of good coaches out there, who won’t necessarily succeed at a place as demanding and unforgiving as Notre Dame. It’s not a given that, say TCU’s Gary Patterson or Boise State’s Chris Petersen, could maintain their recent levels of success in South Bend. Two coaches come to mind: Cincinnati’s Brian Kelly and Florida’s Urban Meyer. Go find a way to get one of them, or else we could be back here again in three or four years.

That last paragraph really hit the nail on the head.

 

[WabashFalcon]

NO. FUCKING. BRIAN. KELLY.

 

[BillyIrish]

This has been tearing me up since Saturday, as I am sure it has everyone here. The loss Saturday was as devastating as any I can remember. As much as I have ripped, criticized, cursed Charlie over the past few days, patience is the answer. We need to let the season play out. This team has proven resilient. They deserve it. 9-3 is still a possibility. 3-9 to 6-6 to 9-3. Sounds like progress. While I do not agree with several of Charlie's decisions, he is learning on the job. That is the risk ND accepted when hiring a guy without any head coaching experience.


Anything less than 9-3 and I think the coaching search should be on. The losses to Michigan and Navy are bad. The defense has regressed from a year ago. Way too many big plays. While some could argue that losing Bruton is proving to be a huge void that ND has not filled, the secondary was still considered a strength. This once again calls into question Weis' ability to develop talent on that side of the ball.

Regardless of my opinion, I am rooting for Charlie Weis.

GO IRISH!!! BEAT PITT!!!

 

[phork]

Bottom line - you don't fire a 9-3 Gator Bowl guy. 3-9; 7-6; and if he goes 10-3.... with stocked cupboards... it doesn't happen. I'm not sure it happens with 8-4, then 9-4.... with the losses we've had. Now, if we lost to MSU, USC, BC, and one more..... CW would be in worse shape. But, UM, Navy.... that's correctable next year.

Yes, always next year. You realize that 7-5 is a real possibility don't you? So whether we lose recruits due to Weis being canned, or the program continually losing, you are still lost and no further ahead.

That's assuming that the talent stays and doesn't jump if Charlie is fired.

Biggest worry? Clausen. Tate is awesome and it would suck to not have him, but the fact is WR is loaded and thats one position I am not worried about. You think a lot of these guys are going to transfer and waste a year?

 

[WabashFalcon]

Yes, always next year. You realize that 7-5 is a real possibility don't you? So whether we lose recruits do to Weis being canned, or the program continually losing, you are still lost and no further ahead.



Biggest worry? Clausen. Tate is awesome and it would suck to not have him, but the fact is WR is loaded and thats one position I am not worried about. You think a lot of these guys are going to transfer and waste a year?

I'm more worried about T'eo, the Redshirt Sr. Olinemen, Watt, McDonald, Poz, Shaq... all the high profile guys that said "Charile is my coach."

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Yes, always next year. You realize that 7-5 is a real possibility don't you? So whether we lose recruits do to Weis being canned, or the program continually losing, you are still lost and no further ahead...

I get it dude. Stick a phspoon in it.

 

[irishfan]

Rebuilding is a 4-step process

1) Losing by a lot (2007)
2) Losing close games (2008)
3) Winning close games (2009)
4) Winning by a lot (2010?)

Give the guy a chance to coach his team in 2010. If we are in the same position next year, then get rid of him. Kelly isn't going anywhere unless somehow the Georgia or Michigan jobs open or a coach suddenly bolts to the NFL (Meyer or Carroll). Otherwise, Kelly will still be available next year.

 

[Butchie]

Has everyone forgotten all he had to over come following "the Profit TY" He has turned the recruiting around, turned the offense around, and has started to get top Defensive recruits now. Defense & its preparation is the problem I get it. Buy in is not, offense is not. I'm more pissed than anybody on this page, but dammit, is the answer really firing him. I think your sacrificial lamb has to be the Corwin Brown-Tenuta Show. That part is obviously not working

 

[phork]

Rebuilding is a 4-step process

1) Losing by a lot (2007)
2) Losing close games (2008)
3) Winning close games (2009)
4) Winning by a lot (2010?)

Give the guy a chance to coach his team in 2010. If we are in the same position next year, then get rid of him. Kelly isn't going anywhere unless somehow the Georgia or Michigan jobs open or a coach suddenly bolts to the NFL (Meyer or Carroll). Otherwise, Kelly will still be available next year.

Believe me if things end in Ann Arbor like they have been talking about, that is the AD being forced out ahead of his planned departure next Sept. Kelly could very well be gone.

 

[DirtySecret]

Believe me if things end in Ann Arbor like they have been talking about, that is the AD being forced out ahead of his planned departure next Sept. Kelly could very well be gone.

UofM was stupid to hire DICKrod in the first place..

 

[Sam Crow]

I've changed my outlook on this whole situation. As mentioned many times in this thread, it wasnt weis' fault that we missed those feild goals, we fumbled twice, had that fluke int. Good coachs put their team into a situation to win, and great coachs put their team in great situations to win. And have we not had a shot at winning every game this year? It comes down to players making plays, and right now we are 3 plays away from having a perfect season. Yes, some will argue that 07 and 08 season were bad and they were but not becasue of coaching. Its really hard to win when you have an offense full of 18 and 19 year olds. That's why our defense is struggling now, the youth. This year the offense has shown a lot of improvment from previous years and you know why that is? One word.

Experience.

So next year we will have a more mature D and therefore a better team. If we fire weis this year, i think Jimmy and Tate go and that sets our offense back immensly. He has rebuilt this program from willingham's mess. I want him to stay and if he doesnt stay you can kiss next year good bye.

 

[Junkhead]

Rebuilding is a 4-step process

1) Losing by a lot (2007)
2) Losing close games (2008)
3) Winning close games (2009)
4) Winning by a lot (2010?)

Give the guy a chance to coach his team in 2010. If we are in the same position next year, then get rid of him. Kelly isn't going anywhere unless somehow the Georgia or Michigan jobs open or a coach suddenly bolts to the NFL (Meyer or Carroll). Otherwise, Kelly will still be available next year.

It really doesn't take that long if coaching is above average.

 

[irishfan]

It really doesn't take that long if coaching is above average.

To go from 3-9 to being a BCS team? Granted we had the talent, but teams don't go from 3-9 to the BCS in one or two years. We shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but regardless, we were a 3-9 team two years ago.

 

[hockeychief24]

The fact of the matter is, with Weis' so-called "amazing" recruiting classes there is NO WAY we should be losing to Navy. We dont lose in 43 years and now we have lost 2 out of 3 years both at home. With arguably the best quarterback in the nation and the best recievers in the nation there is nooo way we should be losing to a navy team.

 

[Flyin_Irish]

Losing 2 out of 3 to a pretty decent Navy team is less of a fluke than beating any team, crappy or not, 43 straight times. That's Globetrotters-esque. I'm not saying it's Ok to lose to Navy, just saying it's not like losing to Washington State right about now.

I saw a bowl projection (Sports Illustrated maybe?) that may be posted around here somewhere, but had us in the Gator vs. VaTech. We could beat them this year...they're not great.

 

[phork]

To go from 3-9 to being a BCS team? Granted we had the talent, but teams don't go from 3-9 to the BCS in one or two years. We shouldn't have been in that position in the first place, but regardless, we were a 3-9 team two years ago.

Alabama was in similar circumstances. This will be 2 BCS is 3 years.

Losing 2 out of 3 to a pretty decent Navy team is less of a fluke than beating any team, crappy or not, 43 straight times. That's Globetrotters-esque. I'm not saying it's Ok to lose to Navy, just saying it's not like losing to Washington State right about now.

I saw a bowl projection (Sports Illustrated maybe?) that may be posted around here somewhere, but had us in the Gator vs. VaTech. We could beat them this year...they're not great.

Navy is a good team, no doubt about it. But if you wan ND where they should be right now, you don't lose to Navy, ever. Gator/Cotton is a pipe dream at this point.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

Coaches come to ND for the tradition, and the ability to come to a potentially elite recruiting school. Why? So they can recruit players that will help them win National Championships. Urban Meyer left Utah and went to Florida for this reason. Right now, Florida is a bigger name in college football than ND. He obviously has already won two National Championship games at Florida. That would be a great and major accomplishment but seriously, forget about Meyer coming to ND. For those that might make a basketball connection of Coach Williams leaving Kansas and going to North Carolina, remember he had connections to North Carolina. I know of no connections that would remotely entice Urban Meyer and unlike Holtz I don't believe he has a ND Clause in his contract.

I truly am not sure what to do. I get disgusted and disappointed just like the rest of you. I don't want ND to pull the trigger to fast but, I also don't want them to wait to late either. I feel like ND is at the "Corner of Walk and Don't Walk."

I do believe that Weis has recruited very well, and has been great in that area. But this talk that comes off as if before Weis, ND never had any top recruiting classes. Granted, it had been a while, but it was obviously done before he got here. He is not the only coach in the world or that ever existed that is able to recruit. That being said, the talent he has built has the potential to get better and more experienced and make a serious run at a National Championship. The question is; can he put it all together? There seems to be a lot of argument about the unknown.

1: If ND fires Weiss, there is no guarantee the new coach doesn't go 7-5, 8-4 or whatever.
2. If they keep Weis, there is no guarantee he doesn't go 7-5 or 8-4 either.
3. A new coach could go 11-1 or even undefeated, and win a NC. Or 1-11.
3. Not only do we honestly not know what ND's record will be next year. We don't even
know with any certainty what it will be at the end of this year.
4. Not only do we not know whether we will win a bowl game this year, we don't even
know what bowl game we may be invited. Or who we would play.

Here are three facts:

1. Some schools recruit on the name of the school.
2. Some recruit on the head coach winning and teaching ability.
3. Some recruit on both. (Usually the more elite programs that make consistent NC runs)


Right now ND is what I would consider a storied program but currently not an elite one. Winning a Championship would restore it to the elite ranks of college football, giving whomever is coach the ability to recruit on both of those factors.

 

[tankjeep]

The fact of the matter is, with Weis' so-called "amazing" recruiting classes there is NO WAY we should be losing to Navy. We dont lose in 43 years and now we have lost 2 out of 3 years both at home. With arguably the best quarterback in the nation and the best recievers in the nation there is nooo way we should be losing to a navy team.

i'm so sick of this argument. have you even looked at the navy team in depth....

navy is much better than what you people think.

all week it's been bothering me that so many people thought we should've walked all over this team, but navy's record speaks otherwise.

they were 6-3 coming into this game. their three losses were to ohios state (ranked top 15 i think?), pitt (who we are playing this weekend and are ranked 8th) and to temple.

now before you go off and say "temple, wft??!?!!?".....temple is bowl eligible this season for the first time in a long time (since '79) and they are 6-2 with losses coming by way of villanova and penn state. villanova (even though a fcs team) is 8-1.....which to me says they are a good football team. and each season since their coach arrived in '07 temple have improved record wise. so they are a team on the rise with something to prove.

so my point being....that navy is a very solid and well coached football team. when you play a team like that, you can't make mistakes and have to play a near perfect game. especially when they are clicking and their rythm is in full flow. who knows they may have had a bad game (like we did against them) vs. temple. all i know is that their other losses were against very respectable opponents in pitt and ohio state.

i wouldn't sell this navy team short by no means. they may not have the pure football players like we recruit, but like notre dame the academic requirements are pretty tough. so, these navy boys aren't dummies. combine that with a big heart and some pretty good athleticism.....you get a pretty darn good football team.

i wasn't happy with this loss, but i'm not going to say it should've been a cake walk. and to use the history of this rivalry as an argument is weak.

 

[tankjeep]

It really doesn't take that long if coaching is above average.

really? besides the fact that we don't have juco's to alleviate young recruits growing process and learning curve. cw had to endure a self-imposed sanction for recruiting violations, but still gets the top recruits here eventually.

there needs to be a growing process and what irishfan pointed out shows that. don't give me the alabama crap either phork. cuz like i said before, juco's help a team big time cuz the transition to fbs isn't as hard for them and the star recruits have time to learn and grow.

plus, alabama, lsu, fla., texas, etc. can recruits dummies all they want...nd can't. when you have to be selective your sample size of talent is significantly reduced.

cw deserves at least another year. then let's see what happens

 

[schuec]

Ill be honest I didn't read through all these pages but for those who say give CW one more year and if he is 9-3 or 10-2 next year then fire him..... Who in their right mind would want to come to a school and coach where 9-3 or 10-2 gets you fired. Enough of this year to year talk with CW. Either come out and commit to him, or end it. Elite programs don't go year to year with their coaches.