CW haters shut the F'up already

[PhilsRule]

Question then. How many years do we give this guy? Most I know said BCS or bust this year. Some of you seem to be willing to accept closely competitive for perpetutiy.

 

[dre1919]

Personally, I'd rather see Notre Dame hire a coach that has actually won something and stick with him. A National Championship, a Superbowl, whatever. There's something to be said for head coaching experience, and for that matter, experience winning something important. CW doesn't have any wins over USC, but he also doesn't have a "signature" win over a top flight program on top of it's game either. Almost beating USC in the Bush-Push game doesn't count since they don't count "almost wins". One of the biggest issues I have with CW is that he's a three time Superbowl winning OC, but yet where's the outstanding scheme advantage over other teams and their coordinators?

My opinion is that because he was a successful coordinator at the pro level (which is a completely different animal than college) he arrogantly thought he would come down and school these college coaches. He even came out and basically said so when he was hired. I think now he's found out that a lot of college coaches can really coach, and that the game on this level is a lot different than in the NFL. Plus, I really think coordinators need to spend time becoming a head coach somewhere that is less media intensive before stepping into what could potentially be overwhelming. Look at Pete Carroll...he was a mediocre pro coach, but at least he coached in New England and New York before coming to USC. He was under the huge expectations, the media glare, and had to deal with all the pressures of large market teams. Hell, coming to college was probably like a vacation (when compared to the New York media).

CW is an outstanding recruiter, an outstanding person from a human standpoint, and an average coach. Those are the opinions and facts as they have played out during his tenure. Those who feel he should be here next season and beyond, where is the justification? What have you seen, above and beyond what others have done, that merits that? Remember, Davie and Willingham all had great moments too. I suggest they try and lure a high profile college coach that has won an NC, or a Superbowl winning coach who's doing nothing now and go from there.

Just my 2¢.

 

[irishtrain]

Here/Here Masterguns is right on the money, get on or get off.

 

[PhilsRule]

Here/Here Masterguns is right on the money, get on or get off.

That's BS. I can love ND and not like our coach. Seems like 85% of this board loves ND and hated Ty.

Charlie Weis is a terrible clock manager and hasn't won a big game against a big team in 5 years. How long should I wait? You tell me.

 

[irishfan]

That's BS. I can love ND and not like our coach. Seems like 85% of this board loves ND and hated Ty.

Charlie Weis is a terrible clock manager and hasn't won a big game against a big team in 5 years. How long should I wait? You tell me.

Give me an example of bad clock management. Yesterday's was questionable...any others?

 

[PhilsRule]

Give me an example of bad clock management. Yesterday's was questionable...any others?

Firstly, yesterday wasn't questionable - it was horrid. He let the clock run from :35 to :16 after a stoppage with no play run.

2ndly, yes I can.

Change of Subject: Did Charlie Weis jump the shark today?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Personally, I'd rather see Notre Dame hire a coach that has actually won something and stick with him. A National Championship, a Superbowl, whatever. There's something to be said for head coaching experience, and for that matter, experience winning something important. CW doesn't have any wins over USC, but he also doesn't have a "signature" win over a top flight program on top of it's game either. Almost beating USC in the Bush-Push game doesn't count since they don't count "almost wins". One of the biggest issues I have with CW is that he's a three time Superbowl winning OC, but yet where's the outstanding scheme advantage over other teams and their coordinators?

My opinion is that because he was a successful coordinator at the pro level (which is a completely different animal than college) he arrogantly thought he would come down and school these college coaches. He even came out and basically said so when he was hired. I think now he's found out that a lot of college coaches can really coach, and that the game on this level is a lot different than in the NFL. Plus, I really think coordinators need to spend time becoming a head coach somewhere that is less media intensive before stepping into what could potentially be overwhelming. Look at Pete Carroll...he was a mediocre pro coach, but at least he coached in New England and New York before coming to USC. He was under the huge expectations, the media glare, and had to deal with all the pressures of large market teams. Hell, coming to college was probably like a vacation (when compared to the New York media).

CW is an outstanding recruiter, an outstanding person from a human standpoint, and an average coach. Those are the opinions and facts as they have played out during his tenure. Those who feel he should be here next season and beyond, where is the justification? What have you seen, above and beyond what others have done, that merits that? Remember, Davie and Willingham all had great moments too. I suggest they try and lure a high profile college coach that has won an NC, or a Superbowl winning coach who's doing nothing now and go from there.

Just my 2¢.

You kind of contradicted yourself in the first two paragraphs.

As I see it, I was iffy with the hire to begin with. But he came in with a program that was shooting downhill and won his first two years. Then he had to start from scratch. As CTF says, he played with high school stars in '07.

Pups.

Yes they could be 1-5 vs 6-0. They are 4-2. But they fight. And attend class. I think.

Bottom line for me is he had to start from scratch.

Where ya been buddy?

 

[Junkhead]

Personally, I'd rather see Notre Dame hire a coach that has actually won something and stick with him. A National Championship, a Superbowl, whatever. There's something to be said for head coaching experience, and for that matter, experience winning something important. CW doesn't have any wins over USC, but he also doesn't have a "signature" win over a top flight program on top of it's game either. Almost beating USC in the Bush-Push game doesn't count since they don't count "almost wins". One of the biggest issues I have with CW is that he's a three time Superbowl winning OC, but yet where's the outstanding scheme advantage over other teams and their coordinators?

My opinion is that because he was a successful coordinator at the pro level (which is a completely different animal than college) he arrogantly thought he would come down and school these college coaches. He even came out and basically said so when he was hired. I think now he's found out that a lot of college coaches can really coach, and that the game on this level is a lot different than in the NFL. Plus, I really think coordinators need to spend time becoming a head coach somewhere that is less media intensive before stepping into what could potentially be overwhelming. Look at Pete Carroll...he was a mediocre pro coach, but at least he coached in New England and New York before coming to USC. He was under the huge expectations, the media glare, and had to deal with all the pressures of large market teams. Hell, coming to college was probably like a vacation (when compared to the New York media).

CW is an outstanding recruiter, an outstanding person from a human standpoint, and an average coach. Those are the opinions and facts as they have played out during his tenure. Those who feel he should be here next season and beyond, where is the justification? What have you seen, above and beyond what others have done, that merits that? Remember, Davie and Willingham all had great moments too. I suggest they try and lure a high profile college coach that has won an NC, or a Superbowl winning coach who's doing nothing now and go from there.

Just my 2¢.

Lot of good points there. We should stick with him for now, and he seems to have made good moves in changing coaching, and is improving as a head coach. I 100% want CW to succeed, but it can only go on so far. We win out, win a bowl game, keep recruiting well (find a defense that works), its good. Lose a few more games we should win, and who knows....We are getting better obviously, the rest of the season will tell the tale.

 

[irishfan]

Firstly, yesterday wasn't questionable - it was horrid. He let the clock run from :35 to :16 after a stoppage with no play run.

2ndly, yes I can.

Change of Subject: Did Charlie Weis jump the shark today?

Well if he calls a timeout yesterday, a sack on Clausen would put us in an awful situation. And Clausen took plenty of time snapping the ball, not like CW is playing QB or Center. Michigan one, we can debate all day. If one of those passes is complete then he's a genius. Against GT in 2006 he went for it on 4th and 1 in our own territory late in the 4th quarter while clinging to a 4 point lead. Was that a bad choice too? Just because our players didnt execute/refs didnt comply against Michigan doesnt mean it was a bad call.

 

[PhilsRule]

Well if he calls a timeout yesterday, a sack on Clausen would put us in an awful situation. And Clausen took plenty of time snapping the ball, not like CW is playing QB or Center. Michigan one, we can debate all day. If one of those passes is complete then he's a genius. Against GT in 2006 he went for it on 4th and 1 in our own territory late in the 4th quarter while clinging to a 4 point lead. Was that a bad choice too? Just because our players didnt execute/refs didnt comply against Michigan doesnt mean it was a bad call.

Remind me, who is responsible for how quickly plays get sent in and run by the QB during the 2 minute drill? Because I thought it was the head coach/offensive coordinator.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

How many times have you been head coach?

 

[irishfan]

Remind me, who is responsible for how quickly plays get sent in and run by the QB during the 2 minute drill? Because I thought it was the head coach/offensive coordinator.

Well I remember Clausen pointing at the mike linebacker about 18 times before snapping the ball. I'm not blaming Clausen cause obviously were about a 2-win team without him but the play was in on time easily. Any other examples cause this one is debatable as is the Michigan one. CW is amazing with clock management all the way back to his NFL days.

 

[PhilsRule]

How many times have you been head coach?

At the collegiate level, never. But I have coached HS football and been a head coach 3 times for the 8th grade spring development team.

I manage a clock better than CW. Of course, I'll concede he is a better play caller

 

[jason_h537]

People nitpcik over "clock management" that argument holds no weight to me. This idea of signature victory is pretty iffy too. Karl Dorrel and Dan Hawkins both have signature victories, now what? How long did it take Frank Beamer and Mack Brown to get their signature victories? Urban Meyer and Brian Kelly would not turn this years team into National Champions.

I agree that Weis would have been better suited learning at lower tier school before coming to ND, but he has learned alot and has the team in a position to only get better. Why fire him now? So we end up watching him win somewhere else like the Browns and Brian Billichick

 

[kmoose]

How long should I wait? You tell me.

You wait until the arrow quits pointing up. This team has made incredible strides, from two years ago to now. We are a good defense away from being a NC contender. You say you have high school coaching experience.........do you think that the team would be fighting this hard, if they didn't believe in Weis? If you agree that the team believes in him, then why would you think that your frustrations trump that?

I completely understand the frustration. I feel it, myself. We just differ, obviously, on what to do about it. Great leaders develop great leaders who develop great leaders who......you get the idea. Charlie Weis has developed two of the greatest leaders that I have seen at ND, going back to the Faust days. Quinn and Clausen have both repeatedly, and publically, given Weis all of the credit for their development. Coporate, or Team, Culture does not change overnight. Yet, in just one year, we can see concrete proof, on the field, of the change in Team Culture going on at ND. If Charlie has to take responsibility for the lack of big results on the field, then you have to give him credit for the changes in the Culture of the program. I'm not saying that Weis is a great coach, or that he is the long term answer, but why would you can a guy who is turning a corner, and is pointing the arrow up?

 

[Master Guns]

That's BS. I can love ND and not like our coach. Seems like 85% of this board loves ND and hated Ty.

Charlie Weis is a terrible clock manager and hasn't won a big game against a big team in 5 years. How long should I wait? You tell me.

As the thread starter on this one; I say that after Jimmy's senior year, and say it goes bad, that would be the time to make a call on CW staying or going. Because if they tank next season with all that experiance and talent, CW and staff is the issue. Personally I think next season is going to be huge and USC and the nation have been put on notice.

 

[phork]

As the thread starter on this one; I say that after Jimmy's senior year, and say it goes bad, that would be the time to make a call on CW staying or going. Because if they tank next season with all that experiance and talent, CW and staff is the issue. Personally I think next season is going to be huge and USC and the nation have been put on notice.

Seriously? There young defense is now 1 year better. Barkley will be a sophomore. Our offense is there already, our defense won't be much better. When you've beaten a team 8 straight years, you don't really get put on notice.

 

[Master Guns]

Seriously? There young defense is now 1 year better. Barkley will be a sophomore. Our offense is there already, our defense won't be much better. When you've beaten a team 8 straight years, you don't really get put on notice.

I think the defense is much better than last year too. LB's are for real. DB's need alot of work, because talent wise they should compete but mentally and fundementally they blew it. Blown assignments, covereages, poor tackling. Coaches will have a field day with them. I think the D will have matured to the point they can contribute to wins. Good thing the O has solid depth at the skill positions.

 

[irishfan]

Seriously? There young defense is now 1 year better. Barkley will be a sophomore. Our offense is there already, our defense won't be much better. When you've beaten a team 8 straight years, you don't really get put on notice.

Don't get how you can say our D wont be much better. 9 starters back. 2nd year of the system. We wont be a top 25 D but we could easily be a top 40 one which is good enough with our offense.

 

[phork]

Unless you plan on enrolling Charles Woodson and Deion Sanders then teams won't be too afraid of our secondary.

 

[JefMaj]

Come on..... how old is Sanders???? He's lost more than a step. Even his reality show was slow.

 

[Irish Joe]

Couldn't agree more with this thread...Go Charlie!