Wildcat

[Tate the Great]

Which play/s do you like best that we run out of the formation or what plays would guys like to see us run? I personally wouldn't mind seeing AA hand it off to Golden when he is in motion to the right and then having Golden toss it back to the other side to AA for a screen. Any other ideas?

 

[irishfan]

I would like to see Goodman out there. Maybe have him come in motion half the time and Golden the other half. Then once in a while you can give it to Goodman and have him toss it deep to Tate. I like the Wildcat though and clearly it works.

 

[Timugen]

I would like to see us completely abandon this gimmick.

We have an OL that should manhandle anyone they line up against, WRs that outclass almost any CB in CFB, and a TE that will be a stud in the NFL.

Play to your strengths. Do what works and keep doing it until they stop you. Don't get cute just for the sake of "mixing it up." That's been [NAME REDACTED]'s biggest f-up so far this season.

This team has no need for gimmicks, especially going against the talent level of our schedule. If [NAME REDACTED] continues to feel the need to resort to gimmick plays (the wildcat) it only further proves his ineptitude as a coach and his inability to take advantage of the fact that EVERY SINGLE SATURDAY he fields a team that has a ridiculous talent advantage.

 

[irishfan]

I would like to see us completely abandon this gimmick.

We have an OL that should manhandle anyone they line up against, WRs that outclass almost any CB in CFB, and a TE that will be a stud in the NFL.

Play to your strengths. Do what works and keep doing it until they stop you. Don't get cute just for the sake of "mixing it up." That's been [NAME REDACTED]'s biggest f-up so far this season.

This team has no need for gimmicks, especially going against the talent level of our schedule. If [NAME REDACTED] continues to feel the need to resort to gimmick plays (the wildcat) it only further proves his ineptitude as a coach and his inability to take advantage of the fact that EVERY SINGLE SATURDAY he fields a team that has a ridiculous talent advantage.

2 td's last week...huge holes every time we run it. it pretty much takes away a defender....you watching the dolphins game right now by any chance?

 

[WabashFalcon]

I wasn't a fan... but right now I'm watching the freaking Dolphins destory my Colts with it. Damn it.

 

[irishfan]

I wasn't a fan... but right now I'm watching the freaking Dolphins destory my Colts with it. Damn it.

theoretically it changes the running game from 10 on 11 (d's dont have to compensate for the qb) to 11 on 11 (must keep someone on the qb when he is split out wide)

sorry bout the colts though, i'm guessing peyton bails them out in the end

 

[Tate the Great]

It is playing to one of our strengths IMO and that is getting AA in open space, it gives us another dimension to our offense.

 

[Timugen]

2 td's last week...huge holes every time we run it. it pretty much takes away a defender....you watching the dolphins game right now by any chance?

Yes I am watching the colts game....and you seem to only remember the times the wildcat worked. Do you, by chance, remember the drives that it killed unnecessarily in the first 2 games? Probably not. My whole point was that we don't NEED to run it, so don't.

And here's a little secret.....it doesn't take a genius to defend it....play assignment football and be disciplined with your responsibilities....much like playing against a triple option.

 

[Timugen]

It is playing to one of our strengths IMO and that is getting AA in open space, it gives us another dimension to our offense.

Screens, swings, and hitches do the same thing without basically telegraphing to the D what you're going to do (run an option.)

Unless you catch the D in a bad personnel package, there isn't this mystical advantage to running the wildcat.


EDIT: And can we PLEASE stop calling it the "wildcat?" It's nothing more than running an option with a RB taking the snap instead of a QB. Anyone around here ever hear of a guy named Tony Rice? It's just now getting all sorts of media love legitimizing it because ONE team in the NFL tried it out last year because they were so desperate for anything after sucking balls the year prior.

 

[shamrockpounder]

the wildcat is not ND football...

if that is charlie's answer...then God help us all. We got a great RB in AA and he puts in the wildcat. A complete gimmick offensive scheme, charlie weis is getting desperate. If he's gonna to copy the Dolphins completely, then take your QB completely off the field sub in with an extra RB or WR. Clausen lined up as a WR will only fool poor defenses like Wash St., Navy and Connecticut. Then again we have out hands full with Navy.

For the wildcat use AA, tate, parris, hughes and rudolph and if you really want to gimmick it up...remove clausen off the field and sub in McCarthy, get athletes back there huh, what, that's right...McCarthy was a QB for cardinal mooney too...hint hint...

 

[irishfan]

Yes I am watching the colts game....and you seem to only remember the times the wildcat worked. Do you, by chance, remember the drives that it killed unnecessarily in the first 2 games? Probably not. My whole point was that we don't NEED to run it, so don't.

And here's a little secret.....it doesn't take a genius to defend it....play assignment football and be disciplined with your responsibilities....much like playing against a triple option.

Against SDSU there were huge holes and when Allen got stopped it was always due to a missed block. Against MSU Tate ran into Allen to put us in a hole. It also in my opinion one us the MSU game as that entire 2nd half seemed like our offense was just scrambling to find ways to produce 1st downs. I wish there was someone online that showed its production for us these first 3 games because it has worked well. In my opinion we NEEDED to run it in the 2nd half for us to beat MSU. And here's a little secret....nearly every team in the NFL and college has the wildcat package and used it. The only team that I have seen really shut it down was the Ravens against the Dolphins last year in the playoffs. But if you have some sort of secret to defending it besides playing assignemt football I'm sure every d-coordinator in the NFL and college would love to hear it.

 

[irishfan]

Screens, swings, and hitches do the same thing without basically telegraphing to the D what you're going to do (run an option.)

Unless you catch the D in a bad personnel package, there isn't this mystical advantage to running the wildcat.

May not be mystical but here

theoretically it changes the running game from 10 on 11 (d's dont have to compensate for the qb) to 11 on 11 (must keep someone on the qb when he is split out wide)

 

[Timugen]

But if you have some sort of secret to defending it besides playing assignemt football I'm sure every d-coordinator in the NFL and college would love to hear it.

Of course....the old "if you were so smart then you'd....."

Here's a few questions for ya, Einstein......

If the "wildcat" is so hard to defend, then why is it that the team that "introduced" it to the NFL only runs it about 10% of their snaps?

If it's so friggin' impossible to defend and (according to you) it's only been successfully defended in ONE game in the NFL, then why the hell aren't they taking every.....nah not even every....how about 75.......no.....ok...why aren't they even taking 1/4th of their snaps in the indefensible wildcat?

Hmmm??

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

....it doesn't take a genius to defend it....play assignment football and be disciplined with your responsibilities.....

Nice. Chime in more often buddy.

 

[phork]

Miami, even though they are losing, ran for over 200 yards tonight. I think it has its place, and certainly worthy to use if you have the personal to run it.
Belichek goes down to Florida every year and has a pow-wow with Meyer about new wrinkles in his scheme.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

And learns how to defend. Maybe?

 

[Timugen]

But if you have some sort of secret to defending it besides playing assignemt football I'm sure every d-coordinator in the NFL and college would love to hear it.

Pretty simple. Just look at some tape of Paul Johnson's Navy teams.

We used to call it "the option," but ever since the media fell in love with Giggity a few years ago we've been renaming and glorifying it.

 

[irishfan]

Of course....the old "if you were so smart then you'd....."

Here's a few questions for ya, Einstein......

If the "wildcat" is so hard to defend, then why is it that the team that "introduced" it to the NFL only runs it about 10% of their snaps?

If it's so friggin' impossible to defend and (according to you) it's only been successfully defended in ONE game in the NFL, then why the hell aren't they taking every.....nah not even every....how about 75.......no.....ok...why aren't they even taking 1/4th of their snaps in the indefensible wildcat?

Hmmm??

I'm not saying it's impossible to defend but it's not like its easy to stop it or slow it down. The biggest benefit of it is that d-coordinators have to spend extra time figuring out how to stop it and d's have to use more practice time to work on defending against it. You compared it to the option earlier, so I'll try and compare it too. There's a lot of teams who a couple times a game will run the option out of the I formation or out of the shotgun but that doesnt mean they are option based teams. And teams don't run it all the time because quite frankly there's not that many plays that can be run out of it. It is a great change of pace to confuse the defense with (similar to ND running no-huddle at the beginning of the game). I'm not saying run it every play but quite frankly there is no reason to abandon this package considering it has worked very well so far this year.

I never once said that this was a base formation or said that it was "indefensible" but the fact that so many NFL teams and so many college teams use the wildcat package should really speak for itself. And obviously teams have slowed down the wildcat, but I can't think of any others that really shut it down like the Ravens did last year to the Dolphins. I'm actually interested if you can think of any others cause with how popular it has become I would have figured that some other team would have shut it down too.

But that's just "Einstein's" take

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

it doesn't take a genius to defend it....play assignment football and be disciplined with your responsibilities....

My good friend Irishfan, I think this is what Timugen said.

 

[irishfan]

My good friend Irishfan, I think this is what Timugen said.

Yes, I know. Clearly if it was that simple then so many NFL and college teams wouldnt have a wildcat package.

 

[Timugen]

Yes, I know. Clearly if it was that simple then so many NFL and college teams wouldnt have a wildcat package.

Newsflash: We had a "wildcat" package in 1988 with Tony Rice being the RB that took snaps. It's called the option.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Irishfan I did not mean to denigrate you my good friend. I just got fired up by my buddy Timugen. I am talking college and h.s ball, or any game where they simply play the game and not worry about shootings and hookers and missed flights and...

 

[irishfan]

Newsflash: We had a "wildcat" package in 1988 with Tony Rice being the RB that took snaps. It's called the option.

its very similar yes but if its the same then why dont nfl teams run the triple option? or any form of option at all besides the wildcat

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

its very similar yes but if its the same then why dont nfl teams run the triple option? or any form of option at all besides the wildcat

Maybe they are stuck in the status quo.

 

[Timugen]

its very similar yes but if its the same then why dont nfl teams run the triple option? or any form of option at all besides the wildcat

You are exactly right. NFL teams don't run the option (unless we call it the wildcat) because it doesn't work in the NFL. And the wildcat was successful last year largely based on the surprise factor. Just think back to MIA v. NE last year and how shocked everyone was at the revolutionary playcalling (running a read option) and how successful it was.

But the entire league was put on alert by that game and it hasn't been as effective since.

It's a repackaged version of the option that caught the best team in the league by surprise and got a lot of attention for doing so, but hasn't proven to be any magic elixir since.

It's a copycat league and other teams are copying now, but the option...errr...wildcat.. is just a fad and it will pass.


EDIT: For anyone that thinks that the wildcat is anything different than a read option offense, just think of how the talking heads say the perfect wildcat "QB/person that takes the snap" would be someone that is a run threat but can actually throw the ball as well. If I'm not mistaken we had something like that around here a while ago with a QB who served in pretty much that capacity, and nobody was dreaming up names for it....it's the option.

 

[irishfan]

You are exactly right. NFL teams don't run the option (unless we call it the wildcat) because it doesn't work in the NFL. And the wildcat was successful last year largely based on the surprise factor. Just think back to MIA v. NE last year and how shocked everyone was at the revolutionary playcalling (running an option) and how successful it was.

But the entire league was put on alert by that game that and it hasn't been as effective since.

It's a repackaged version of the option that caught the best team in the league by surprise and got a lot of attention for doing so, but hasn't proven to be any magic elixir since.

It's a copycat league and other teams are copying now, but the option...errr...wildcat.. is just a fad and it will pass.

ya good call the colts shut it down tonight...wildcat wasnt effective at all

 

[Timugen]

ya good call the colts shut it down tonight...wildcat wasnt effective at all

Exactly. The fish just lost a game in which they had possession for 45 minutes out of 60, and are now 0-2.

Go Wildcat!!!!

 

[irishfan]

Exactly. The fish just lost a game in which they had possession for 45:00 out of 60:00, and are now 0-2.

Go Wildcat!!!!

they statistically dominated the game against a superior opponent who quite frankly could not stop the wildcat all game. you're going to look for reasons to put down the wildcat and i'm going to look for ones to make it seem like its great so we should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Timugen]

they statistically dominated the game against a superior opponent who quite frankly could not stop the wildcat all game. you're going to look for reasons to put down the wildcat and i'm going to look for ones to make it seem like its great so we should probably just agree to disagree on this one.

Scoreboard


A legitimate NFL offense with a franchise pocket passer scored more points in 15 minutes on the field than the wildcat abortion scored in 45 minutes.

But yeah, you're right....that little read option offense is "effective," if your definition of effective is losing games.

 

[irishfan]

Scoreboard


A legitimate NFL offense with a franchise pocket passer scored more points in 15 minutes on the field than the wildcat abortion scored in 45 minutes.

But yeah, you're right....that little read option offense is "effective," if your definition of effective is losing games.

just refer back to my post that you replied to. we could argue about this for quite some time. let's just agree to disagree. i like the wildcat, you don't. let's just end it.