The Ref's in the Michigan Game

[no.1IrishFan]

First off, calling back the AA TD was absolutely CRIMINAL. The call on the field was a TD and there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL there was enough evidence to overturn that call.

Secondly, The 72 yard return from Rudolph was just flat out ridiculous. That was a pancake block to the perfection, and to call that a hold is just PISS POOR!!!

The pass interfernce non calls all day were terrible, and on top of that, i saw at least three times that UM DB's pushed and shoved extremely late, with one coming less than 1 foot away from a REF while Floyd was trying to get up from the ground.

While i do agree that we LOST the game within the final 3 mins, the fact of these first two palys alone are at a minimun 10 point swing, with quite possibly more, considering the swing in momentum after the AA TD was called back and then UM holding us to a FG. The return may not have happen with that momentum shift, but then again even if it does, the 4 points returned on the scoreboard is the diffenrence in the game, or at least overtime.

This one upset me more than any other non call. The Big Ten refs made it clear who was being favored. No way we would have gotten away with that!

 

[TexasNDFan]

I believe the officiating was REALLY bad, but what lost the game for us was the defense giving up a 58 yard TD drive, in 9 plays, in the last 2:13.

The officiating cost ND atleast one touchdown and they way they were moving the ball in the first half more than likely two td's. Now even if you keep the score the same in the second half then at worst the last drive would've tied the score and put into overtime. We all know that had the score been more lopsided at the half then things would've definitely been different in the second half. I'm the first to say that blaming the officials is a bitch move, but these guys were so bad that it changed the whole complexity of the game. They kept the game close and it gave the wolverines more confidence with every stalled drive. Had the officials been equally bad with calls against scUM then I wouldn't complain, but they were so obvious about trying to keep the game close.

The only silver lining in all this is that as hard as the officials were trying to help scUM win, the Irish were one pass play away from icing it at the end, had Floyd not come out he would've made that catch. Another good thing is that the Irish won't see another spread offense team unless it's in a bowl game.

 

[TecmoTrojan]

You guys need to ease up on the refs. What goes around, comes around and ND usually is better treated by refs than almost anyone else. So just suck it up.

Also, the players did not lose the game. It wasn't Golden Tate, it wasn't your DLine. It was your "decided schematic advantage."

You arent wrong tp chase a big white whale but its not the refs and its not the players. Its the big white whale on your sidelines.

Seriously, that michigan team is not that good. You have now had 3 years of Top 10 recruits followed by a Top 15 recruiting year last year.

The blind faith and the arrogance I can understand. It's who you are. But 5 years later and you are hoping for a good year. That's a joke. This is supposed to be a perennial top 10 power. You arent supposed to hope for good years. You just have good years and hope for national championships.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

You guys major in dance. And fail to attend sessions.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Our defense really cost us the game and special teams as well. Way too many attempts at arm tackling today.

However, the missed PI calls were appalling. On one play, Cissoko, I believe, had his arm completely around Tate's midsection. I have seen less body to body contact on Dancing with the Stars.

The taunting penalty? Seriously? That sucked and had probably the biggest affect on the outcome of the game. If the kick isn't moved back, quite possibly we at least hold them to a field goal. Who knows?

And overturning the AA touchdown call? It has to be INCONCLUSIVE evidence to overturn and there was no way that was inconclusive.

I am just sick about so many things about this game. Can't even begin to sort through everything in my head.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I can help you sort things out in your head buddy. Join Cracker Jacks (surprise inside) Anon with me. It helps. I have met 2 loving goats who understand me.

You may find an animal that cares.

 

[Irish1014]

I agree that the calls were horrible. Michigan will have a hard time playing outside of Ann Arbor when the refs can't save them!

 

[littlerick77]

You guys need to ease up on the refs. What goes around, comes around and ND usually is better treated by refs than almost anyone else. So just suck it up.

Also, the players did not lose the game. It wasn't Golden Tate, it wasn't your DLine. It was your "decided schematic advantage."

You arent wrong tp chase a big white whale but its not the refs and its not the players. Its the big white whale on your sidelines.

Seriously, that michigan team is not that good. You have now had 3 years of Top 10 recruits followed by a Top 15 recruiting year last year.

The blind faith and the arrogance I can understand. It's who you are. But 5 years later and you are hoping for a good year. That's a joke. This is supposed to be a perennial top 10 power. You arent supposed to hope for good years. You just have good years and hope for national championships.

Fuck off.............seriously, stop obsessing about ND!!! we don't even play your team for another month!

 

[irishtrain]

refs

refs

I just talked to a buddy who IS NOT a Notre Dame guy at all. In fact he's Fla State. He said he hasnt seen a game so messed up against one team in a long time. His comment was can you imagine if this game was for a BCS berth or championship. By the way- he played O line in college and said Young's pancake block was textbook along with the help from Ragone to start the play. That's about all I'm going to say about this $#@& from here on out, but I would like to hear from some mich people who were there that feel like it was a fairly done game. Screen called back, holdings, hand contact on receivers, I like to be a bird in the room if Charlie gets a call for his explainations. I'd lite their @$$#% up. That was a loss we got beat- ask mich if they'd like to play us again this yr- I think I know the answer.

 

[irishtrain]

tecmo

tecmo

Short and sweet-we will see you on Oct 17.

 

[TecmoTrojan]

Fuck off.............seriously, stop obsessing about ND!!! we don't even play your team for another month!

Is that what you call that joke out there on the field? Playing?
What are you playing? It's not football.

Oh and train...Yes! Yes you will and you will be humiliated AGAIN.

 

[hail2mich]

Hey everyone, Michigan fan here.

I just wanted to give my thoughts about the game.

First off, the refs didn't lose the game, Weis did by passing the ball on that last drive. I couldn't believe he didn't run. Your running game was killing Michigan and you probably would have sealed it up right there. That Allen is a beast and I was very surprised by his performance.

I will admit that the refs did miss some things. Cissoko pushing the reciever down after the play was unacceptable and is not what Michigan is about. That was classless and I was pissed at him for doing that. This isn't Ohio St. or Florida St. The clock management was screwed up as you probably should have had one more play, but after seeing a replay, it was close to tell. The screen called back was way too close to overturn and I was shocked that they did. I don't remember the holding that you are upset about, but I saw some holds by the ND O-line against Brandon Graham that were not called, so I think that was a wash. Finally, I didn't see the celebration they called on Allen, but I know they are enforcing it much more strictly. Whoever said that the ref stopped Greg Mathews from "over celebrating" after the last touchdown was wrong. All he did was try to get the ball, which Mathews gave to him, realizing not to go overboard. The refs were definitely in Michigan's advantage, but I don't think you can blame the entire outcome on them.

I was REALLY impressed with you offense. Claussen to Tate or Floyd is an unbelievable combination and you guys will have a very good season offensively. Claussen was unstoppable when he had time in the pocket. When Michigan got pressure on him, he did get rattled. Allen was also very impressive and ran right over Michigan's defense, which I felt confident in coming into the game run stopping wise. Your offensive line was very strong against Michigan's defensive line. But, the defense did have holes, much like Michigan's.

As for Michigan, Tate Forcier has been crazy so far. He seems so poised for a freshman, and seems to be a great leader. All of his passes are right on the money with zip, and he has the brains to know when to pass and when to run. The interception he threw was on the reciever and not him, and I really liked how he responded to his first pick as a Michigan QB. I wish Michigan ran with Minor more than they did, as you guys saw he is very physical, but I am happy with his performance too. Michigan's defense was not good at all, and got punished by Claussen. I was worried with Cissoko's size, and it showed. Your offensive line dominated our front four, and I was disappointed with getting no pressure without blitzing.

Overall, it was a great game. Michigan is showing that they are back, or at least close to coming back, and Notre Dame is going to win 10 games this year. I have respect for Notre Dame and its program because they do things the right way, much like Michigan. I will be rooting for you guys the rest of the way and say Good Luck! Beat MSU!

Go Blue!

 

[PADOMERNUT]

You guys need to ease up on the refs. What goes around, comes around and ND usually is better treated by refs than almost anyone else. So just suck it up.

Also, the players did not lose the game. It wasn't Golden Tate, it wasn't your DLine. It was your "decided schematic advantage."

You arent wrong tp chase a big white whale but its not the refs and its not the players. Its the big white whale on your sidelines.

Seriously, that michigan team is not that good. You have now had 3 years of Top 10 recruits followed by a Top 15 recruiting year last year.

The blind faith and the arrogance I can understand. It's who you are. But 5 years later and you are hoping for a good year. That's a joke. This is supposed to be a perennial top 10 power. You arent supposed to hope for good years. You just have good years and hope for national championships.

That white whale put up 34 points and 490 yards of offense. He doesnt call defensive plays. Before you troll on someone else's boards you should do a little research. Frankly I am surprised you even know how to get onto this site. Trojan fans, you know, arent the brightest. Neither are the players.....

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Hey everyone, Michigan fan here.

I just wanted to give my thoughts about the game.

First off, the refs didn't lose the game, Weis did by passing the ball on that last drive. I couldn't believe he didn't run. Your running game was killing Michigan and you probably would have sealed it up right there. That Allen is a beast and I was very surprised by his performance.

I will admit that the refs did miss some things. Cissoko pushing the reciever down after the play was unacceptable and is not what Michigan is about. That was classless and I was pissed at him for doing that. This isn't Ohio St. or Florida St. The clock management was screwed up as you probably should have had one more play, but after seeing a replay, it was close to tell. The screen called back was way too close to overturn and I was shocked that they did. I don't remember the holding that you are upset about, but I saw some holds by the ND O-line against Brandon Graham that were not called, so I think that was a wash. Finally, I didn't see the celebration they called on Allen, but I know they are enforcing it much more strictly. Whoever said that the ref stopped Greg Mathews from "over celebrating" after the last touchdown was wrong. All he did was try to get the ball, which Mathews gave to him, realizing not to go overboard. The refs were definitely in Michigan's advantage, but I don't think you can blame the entire outcome on them.

I was REALLY impressed with you offense. Claussen to Tate or Floyd is an unbelievable combination and you guys will have a very good season offensively. Claussen was unstoppable when he had time in the pocket. When Michigan got pressure on him, he did get rattled. Allen was also very impressive and ran right over Michigan's defense, which I felt confident in coming into the game run stopping wise. Your offensive line was very strong against Michigan's defensive line. But, the defense did have holes, much like Michigan's.

As for Michigan, Tate Forcier has been crazy so far. He seems so poised for a freshman, and seems to be a great leader. All of his passes are right on the money with zip, and he has the brains to know when to pass and when to run. The interception he threw was on the reciever and not him, and I really liked how he responded to his first pick as a Michigan QB. I wish Michigan ran with Minor more than they did, as you guys saw he is very physical, but I am happy with his performance too. Michigan's defense was not good at all, and got punished by Claussen. I was worried with Cissoko's size, and it showed. Your offensive line dominated our front four, and I was disappointed with getting no pressure without blitzing.

Overall, it was a great game. Michigan is showing that they are back, or at least close to coming back, and Notre Dame is going to win 10 games this year. I have respect for Notre Dame and its program because they do things the right way, much like Michigan. I will be rooting for you guys the rest of the way and say Good Luck! Beat MSU!

Go Blue!

Wow a fan from another team who actually can provide some good insight? We dont have that around here too often.

Thanks man, great game yesterday. I am still sick over it, but thats life. I think UM is the 2nd best team in the big ten. You guys will destroy OSU this year. Pryor is so overrated.

 

[kmoose]

In their defense, it should have been a 73 yard drive because the taunting penalty against Allen should have never been called. Lots of things lost the game, but the officiating was a significant part of that. The game should not have been so close that officiating was a deciding factor. Unfortunately it was. We will either grow from this, or we will let it take the wind out of our sails... in which case we're in for a long year.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are absolutely wrong. After the taunting penalty, Michigan's next drive was 5 plays for 9 yards. They punt, we fair catch at our own 16. On first down, Armando Allen rushes for 13, out to the 29. Then comes the series of plays that some people are so up in arms about. What people are forgetting (and to be honest, I have forgotten how exactly it went down) is that Maust's ensuing punt covered all of 28 yards. It was fair caught, so it's not like Michigan got a huge return or anything. I won't rehash the controversial offensive series, other than to say that the boys had mutlipe opportunities to put the Wolverines away. But why not blame the punter? A 40+ yard kick (not an unreasonable idea), and Michigan has to go a bit further. Perhaps they come out for that series less confident? Who knows what might have happened. Weis said it best, "We win as a team, and we lose as a team." But I digress. The officiating was pretty bad, but it wasn't the deciding factor. Our defense taking most of the 2nd half off, was.

 

[phork]

IMO it was the first few series that lost this game. QB sneak on 3rd and 4 or whatever it was. Eh? You recruited the kid for his arm. The next series nets a FG and we all know what happened then. Instead of it being 14-7 ND, it was 14-3 UM. That sneak was the key to that game.

 

[irishtrain]

refs

refs

hail2mich-thanks nice job on the game and your good insight, win the rest of 'em if you can. GOOD LUCK and thanks for the honest response.

 

[irishfan]

IMO it was the first few series that lost this game. QB sneak on 3rd and 4 or whatever it was. Eh? You recruited the kid for his arm. The next series nets a FG and we all know what happened then. Instead of it being 14-7 ND, it was 14-3 UM. That sneak was the key to that game.

It was a good call. That play was wide open if not for one missed block. Quinn was recruited for his arm and he scored on pretty much that exact same play against USC in 2005 to give us the lead late. Just because a play doesn't work doesnt mean it was a bad call.

"That sneak was the key to that game."

....wow really?

 

[phork]

It was a good call. That play was wide open if not for one missed block. Quinn was recruited for his arm and he scored on pretty much that exact same play against USC in 2005 to give us the lead late. Just because a play doesn't work doesnt mean it was a bad call.

"That sneak was the key to that game."

....wow really?

It was a good call my ass. Its the beginning of the game, you have your entire arsenal at your disposal and this is the route you choose? You are on the road in a big rivalry game. The first thing you do is silence the 111,000 people, 100,000 of which are not cheering for you. So instead of going up 14-0 and placing some doubt in the minds of the fans and the opposing players you settle for 3 points on 2 long drives and are down by 11.

Yup, I stand by my call that it was key to that game.

 

[jason_h537]

It was a good call my ass. Its the beginning of the game, you have your entire arsenal at your disposal and this is the route you choose? You are on the road in a big rivalry game. The first thing you do is silence the 111,000 people, 100,000 of which are not cheering for you. So instead of going up 14-0 and placing some doubt in the minds of the fans and the opposing players you settle for 3 points on 2 long drives and are down by 11.

Yup, I stand by my call that it was key to that game.

So when we were up 20-17 at half with all the momentum and the crowd was deflated it was that call on the first series that decided the game. Not the fumble in the third quarter. Not Forcier's TD run on 4th and 3 and not the defense on the final drive.

apparantly this means i won the argument so i will use it to

 

[irishfan]

It was a good call my ass. Its the beginning of the game, you have your entire arsenal at your disposal and this is the route you choose? You are on the road in a big rivalry game. The first thing you do is silence the 111,000 people, 100,000 of which are not cheering for you. So instead of going up 14-0 and placing some doubt in the minds of the fans and the opposing players you settle for 3 points on 2 long drives and are down by 11.

Yup, I stand by my call that it was key to that game.

I don't think Weis said "hey lets try and get the ball in the middle of the field and settle for a field goal." He was trying to get a first down on that qb draw (not a sneak). Like I said, that play was wide open for 5-10 yards if not for one missed block. He didn't settle for 3. and he had "entire arsenal at his disposal" for the whole game. That sentence makes little to no sense.

 

[phork]

So when we were up 20-17 at half with all the momentum and the crowd was deflated it was that call on the first series that decided the game. Not the fumble in the third quarter. Not Forcier's TD run on 4th and 3 and not the defense on the final drive.

apparantly this means i won the argument so i will use it to

Yah I much prefer to be 20-17 with the game in reach of the other team, as opposed to possibly being 28 or 34-17.

I don't think Weis said "hey lets try and get the ball in the middle of the field and settle for a field goal." He was trying to get a first down on that qb draw (not a sneak). Like I said, that play was wide open for 5-10 yards if not for one missed block. He didn't settle for 3. and he had "entire arsenal at his disposal" for the whole game. That sentence makes little to no sense.

Well no kidding, but 3 points is all ND got. So therefore you settle for 3 points in those 2 drives.

 

[irishfan]

Well no kidding, but 3 points is all ND got. So therefore you settle for 3 points in those 2 drives.

the last thing we need on our opening drive in the big house is to go for it on 4th and be stopped if thats what youre implying

 

[phork]

No, what I am implying is that you don't run the QB Draw.

 

[irishfan]

No, what I am implying is that you don't run the QB Draw.

what are you suggesting? that play was wide open. that one missed block is the equivalent of clausen throwing behind a receiver or a receiver dropping a pass. i dont get what you dont see here. that play was WIDE OPEN. you clearly werent paying attention or else you would have seen that too. it was an easy first down if that one block wasnt missed. way to easy to second guess. if that block is made (like it should be) were not having this conversation right now.

 

[IrishRamMan10]

what are you suggesting? that play was wide open. that one missed block is the equivalent of clausen throwing behind a receiver or a receiver dropping a pass. i dont get what you dont see here. that play was WIDE OPEN. you clearly werent paying attention or else you would have seen that too. it was an easy first down if that one block wasnt missed. way to easy to second guess. if that block is made (like it should be) were not having this conversation right now.

exactly. initially i despised taht call. but after taking a second look it was almost a brillaint call. the runnin room was there the play was just not executed

 

[midwestguy]

LOL at blaming the refs for this loss.

 

[JeremyND07]

LOL at blaming the refs for this loss.

I was over the whole bad refs thing until watching highlights.

1) There is NO way that there was indisputable video evidence that AA stepped out on that touchdown run!!!!

2) The phantom holding call on Sam Young when Rudolph had that 70 yard reception.

3) The pass interference calls that were not called were NUTS especially the one on 3rd down at the end of the game when the Michigan DB butt raped Tate right in front of the official. Serously, go watch it again...there is NO way that is not pass interference.

4) I understand the logic behind the time coming off the clock but the refs should of blew the whistle and let the ND coaches know the time was changed. You cannot just change the time during a play!!! 11 seconds is enough time for a quick play over the middle then a long throw. 9 seconds is pretty much hail marry time! 2 more seconds and Tate gets out of bounce in plenty of time even though after watching it again it looked like his knee was down at 1 sec. 50 yard line with our receivers and Jimmy...I like our chances of scoring!

:countdown big ten officials!!!

 

[jason_h537]

Yeah there were bad calls but there was nothing we couldn't overcome. by the way, we got big ten officials this week too

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Hey everyone, Michigan fan here.

I just wanted to give my thoughts about the game.

First off, the refs didn't lose the game, Weis did by passing the ball on that last drive. I couldn't believe he didn't run. Your running game was killing Michigan and you probably would have sealed it up right there. That Allen is a beast and I was very surprised by his performance.

I will admit that the refs did miss some things. Cissoko pushing the reciever down after the play was unacceptable and is not what Michigan is about. That was classless and I was pissed at him for doing that. This isn't Ohio St. or Florida St. The clock management was screwed up as you probably should have had one more play, but after seeing a replay, it was close to tell. The screen called back was way too close to overturn and I was shocked that they did. I don't remember the holding that you are upset about, but I saw some holds by the ND O-line against Brandon Graham that were not called, so I think that was a wash. Finally, I didn't see the celebration they called on Allen, but I know they are enforcing it much more strictly. Whoever said that the ref stopped Greg Mathews from "over celebrating" after the last touchdown was wrong. All he did was try to get the ball, which Mathews gave to him, realizing not to go overboard. The refs were definitely in Michigan's advantage, but I don't think you can blame the entire outcome on them.

I was REALLY impressed with you offense. Claussen to Tate or Floyd is an unbelievable combination and you guys will have a very good season offensively. Claussen was unstoppable when he had time in the pocket. When Michigan got pressure on him, he did get rattled. Allen was also very impressive and ran right over Michigan's defense, which I felt confident in coming into the game run stopping wise. Your offensive line was very strong against Michigan's defensive line. But, the defense did have holes, much like Michigan's.

As for Michigan, Tate Forcier has been crazy so far. He seems so poised for a freshman, and seems to be a great leader. All of his passes are right on the money with zip, and he has the brains to know when to pass and when to run. The interception he threw was on the reciever and not him, and I really liked how he responded to his first pick as a Michigan QB. I wish Michigan ran with Minor more than they did, as you guys saw he is very physical, but I am happy with his performance too. Michigan's defense was not good at all, and got punished by Claussen. I was worried with Cissoko's size, and it showed. Your offensive line dominated our front four, and I was disappointed with getting no pressure without blitzing.

Overall, it was a great game. Michigan is showing that they are back, or at least close to coming back, and Notre Dame is going to win 10 games this year. I have respect for Notre Dame and its program because they do things the right way, much like Michigan. I will be rooting for you guys the rest of the way and say Good Luck! Beat MSU!

Go Blue!

Glad to see some class from the Michigan side. I truely beleive that the game was ours to lose, and while I dont blame the pass plays as much as the rest of people, i think it was fine comsidering the circumstances ( AA hurt, Hughes stuck on first down). I will never blame a game on the REF's but in this case, although the game was OURS to lose, the calls from the refs WERE terrible. There wer some plays that were a wash as well, like the play that AA got hurt, Rudolph got away with a HUGE hold that the Mighigan side was screaming for, the only difference was the circumstances that penalties were called. The holding play on Young was terrible. He straight PANCAKED the dude and got penalized for it!!! And the TD overturn was the differnece in at least overtime..... All in all though, I did think the game was ours to lose. You guys played a great game, and Focier is a playmaker, and well beyond his years.