Interesting Read

[midwestguy]

Did you seriously just compare Notre Dame's academic standards to Harvard, Yale, and Stanford?

Because if you did, you need to pick up a copy of U.S. News and World Report's College Rankings.

Notre Dame is an excellent academic school, but it isn't even in the same realm as the above. Not to mention that Yale and Harvard play 1-AA (or whatever they call it now) and won't even play in the 1-AA playoffs.

Notre Dame didn't get 3 top 10 recruiting classes in a row because they are so academically stringent. Do they miss out on 1 or 2 recruits each year because of grades, sure. Does that mean they can't be competitive? The answer is no.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Did you seriously just compare Notre Dame's academic standards to Harvard, Yale, and Stanford?

Because if you did, you need to pick up a copy of U.S. News and World Report's College Rankings.

Notre Dame is an excellent academic school, but it isn't even in the same realm as the above. Not to mention that Yale and Harvard play 1-AA (or whatever they call it now) and won't even play in the 1-AA playoffs.

Notre Dame didn't get 3 top 10 recruiting classes in a row because they are so academically stringent. Do they miss out on 1 or 2 recruits each year because of grades, sure. Does that mean they can't be competitive? The answer is no.

We miss out on 1 or 2 recruits???? C'mon, even for you that is bad. We miss out on a ton of recruits because of quallifications. CW can make a list of all the recruits he wants, and then he looks at the records and has to cross certain people off the list. It's just the truth. And don't forget about JUCO's. Not saying that we'd get all the recruits, but we still miss out on even being able to recruit them.

Jonesman, i see what you are saying, but sorry, restrictions are a huge problem. Just go look at U$C's roster. I would LOVE to see many of those guys' transcripts. I wonder if Ray Malauga can even spell his own name (I can't) much less U-S-C. He wouldn't be allowed in the city of South Bend much less the campus. The guy is a straight-up thug. You know how many fights this guy used to get in off-campus at frat parties that got swept under the rug? I could go on for days. But he's a BEAST on the field so he's perfect for USC. Not saying that ll the SC guys are like that but there are plenty (Mike Williams anyone?) like that. Look at Alabama. How many guys need to go to jail before someone says something? Or Texas when they won? Or Florida? Or Oklahoma? LOOK AT THEIR POLICE RECORDS AFTER THEY WIN NC'S!!! It's not a coincidence!!!

So when you say we want to win but we can't relax standards, you're asking for a lot. Other programs get it, that you have to recruit the 'ghetto' kid that won't get near ND in order to win.

I'm not saying ND should do that, I'm just saying that is the reality of the situation. It's much tougher for ND than it is for Alabama and USC and Florida. I mean, even USC's second team defense was faster than our offense!!! It's just the reality of the situation...

 

[dre1919]

Yes I did because in the grand scheme of things, I'm comparing Notre Dame's academic standards against such heavyweights as USC, Texas and Ohio State. Compared to those institutions of higher learning, their academic restrictions are like comparing ND's to the Ivy League. By the way, that's their division...the Ivy League...and it's not 1-AA anymore. It's FCS (Football Championship Subdivision). I-A was changed to FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision...not a women's antiperspirant, even though you might think so). Point is, Notre Dame might as well be Harvard for some recruits to apply to when it comes to their GPA and placement scores compared to the other colleges recruiting them.

 

[NDMontana]

USC has a more veteran team--they even started some seniors (what's a senior?)--which probably accounts for why the game took the course that it did. The one factor that doesn't change from freshmen to senior year--if it does change it's by a negligible amount--is speed and USC looked a whole lot faster to me.

 

[ARALOU]

Bigger, faster, quicker, meaner and better.

 

[texpanhandle.irish]

Two words. Duke Basketball. I know b-ball and football are not the same, but it takes a great coach such as coach K to make a school regarded for their academics a force to be reckoned with in the athletic world.

 

[Sureal]

Two words. Duke Basketball. I know b-ball and football are not the same, but it takes a great coach such as coach K to make a school regarded for their academics a force to be reckoned with in the athletic world.

It takes longer in football though. I understand what you are saying but as you said b-ball and football are absolutely not the same in regards to the need for quantity of talent. One or two good players take you to the final four.

 

[beerguy]

Talent, admission standards, etc. are not the problem! A well coached program does not put a product on the field that looks worse as the season gets long. The head coaching position at ND is one of the lowest paid in its division nationally. There is a reason that it has racked up a recent string of incompetent coaches. Can any of the recent coaches stack up against the powerhouse programs around the country?

 

[NDinL.A.]

You're right, coaching has to get better. No doubt. But why do you think coaches keep turning ND down? One major reason: ACADEMIC RESTRICTIONS (and the immense pressure to win despite that). Nick Saban can go into ANYBODY's living room and is able to recruit them. CW is not. It makes a huge difference. (It also makes a huge difference on the police blotter).

CW's players have to actually go to class; I know this for a fact because my lady went to school with Rhema and Shark and Stovall those guys, and they ALL were in class. I also know many USC students, and trhey have told me about their 'student-athletes'. For ex, I had one USC student who was an aide of mine, and he told me that Mike Williams was in his class. He said Mike showed up for the mid-term and the final of a LECTURE class, and he was still eligible. And I'm not an idiot, and I know the student could have been lying to me, but I can totally see that happening. I've heard other stories (look into the Joe McKnight situation, and how he magically got eligible after being academically ineligible for a month last spring). And Mike Williams isn't the only one skipping class, you know that.

Remember what CW last last week? He said that he was going to get to sit ans study film with Jimmy C a lot more last week than usual because classes were done earlier than normal. Do you think Pete Carroll ever had that problem with Matt Leinart his senior year while he was taking ballroom dancing?

Face it, there's a huge difference. It's what ND has been about, for better or for worse...

 

[WaveDomer]

CW's players have to actually go to class; I know this for a fact because my lady went to school with Rhema and Shark and Stovall those guys, and they ALL were in class. I also know many USC students, and trhey have told me about their 'student-athletes'. For ex, I had one USC student who was an aide of mine, and he told me that Mike Williams was in his class. He said Mike showed up for the mid-term and the final of a LECTURE class, and he was still eligible. And I'm not an idiot, and I know the student could have been lying to me, but I can totally see that happening. I've heard other stories (look into the Joe McKnight situation, and how he magically got eligible after being academically ineligible for a month last spring). And Mike Williams isn't the only one skipping class, you know that.

Remember what CW last last week? He said that he was going to get to sit ans study film with Jimmy C a lot more last week than usual because classes were done earlier than normal. Do you think Pete Carroll ever had that problem with Matt Leinart his senior year while he was taking ballroom dancing?

Face it, there's a huge difference. It's what ND has been about, for better or for worse...

This is my biggest issue with this topic. I don't have a huge issue with letting kids in that are a bit below the admissions standards, but once that kid is in school he should have to go to class and take the same classes that everyone else has to take. I'm not bothered by kids getting tutoring or any of that. Playing D1 football or any other sport is a huge time commitment, nothing wrong with getting some help. But schools are here for education. The NCAA fails miserably at making sure all schools live up to their end of the bargain. Most kids don't go pro. If you let them skate through school because they can tackle, they are boned when they go into the real world. That shouldn't be "okay" with anyone.

 

[nd1988]

Two words. Duke Basketball. I know b-ball and football are not the same, but it takes a great coach such as coach K to make a school regarded for their academics a force to be reckoned with in the athletic world.

You said it right there.... What Coach K has done at Duke is outstanding... A bunch of nerds kickingass at basketball...

 

[NDinL.A.]

Two words. Duke Basketball. I know b-ball and football are not the same, but it takes a great coach such as coach K to make a school regarded for their academics a force to be reckoned with in the athletic world.

Coach K has done great, but how does that compare? In basketball you have 5 starters. In football you have 22 starters, and that's not even including special teams (5 different teams, punt, kickoff, fg, kick return, punt return). Conceivably you have 35-50 different starters as opposed to 5. You need 8-10 players to win a NC in basketball; you need waaaaaayyyy more to succeed in football. It's a numbers game, and it's not even close. Way harder to do it in football just because of sheer numbers.

And coincidentally, now that Duke's players started leaving school early (thus making Coach K find even more smart players because of the constant turnover), when was their last NC? They've been bowing our earlier and earlier the last decade. Not nearly as bad as ND of course, but it just goes to show you that the more student-athletes you have to find, the harder it is to win...

 

[WaveDomer]

Part of the problem that I don't hear a lot about is the overall choice in college sports. Way back when if you to win in football you went to ND, Michigan, USC, Alabama, and so forth, but it was limited to a certain number of schools. Today you can go to Texas Tech, Louisville, Boise State and the list goes on. Same for basketball. You used to go to Kentucky, now you can go to George Mason. Not that all these schools compete for NC's every year, but the exposure is there for all of these schools. There is way more to choose from these days. So kids can go almost anywhere and if they are good enough they will get exposure.

 

[gairish]

interesting read

interesting read

The positions that we are getting killed at are o-line, d-line, and linbackers, These are the positions that football factories get the studs because they are not there for education. For the most part skilled players can be found and the game turns into flag football ala Big 12 South but you need those big boys who can play and trust me most of these guys cant get into ND. As I stated before I have a friend on staff at an SEC school who told me 40%-50%of their guys cant get into ND and I would wager the # is higher at the positions I just talked about. I agree either go one way or the other, get busy and play football or just become an academic icon who plays in the MAC or IVY League. I'm tired of all the abuse we have to take for being someones punching bag. Just look at the interview of the USC guys after the game and tell me if they are football players or students.

 

[dre1919]

Part of the problem that I don't hear a lot about is the overall choice in college sports. Way back when if you to win in football you went to ND, Michigan, USC, Alabama, and so forth, but it was limited to a certain number of schools. Today you can go to Texas Tech, Louisville, Boise State and the list goes on. Same for basketball. You used to go to Kentucky, now you can go to George Mason. Not that all these schools compete for NC's every year, but the exposure is there for all of these schools. There is way more to choose from these days. So kids can go almost anywhere and if they are good enough they will get exposure.

Sure...this is one of the things that is hurting a university like Notre Dame. We cannot go in and say "You know, you'll be on national television with us and NBC" and have it mean anything. So what? Every team is covered nationally now either on the major networks, the sports packages, ESPN, or even the internet. Someone's highlights being on YouTube are almost reaching as high of status as being on ESPN. Back in the old days, we could get kids to come in with the promise of that shiny degree. Now, with the NFL salary cap for rookies waaaay out of control, someone's signing bonus alone is better than having a degree. They can always come back during the summers and finish it if they truly want to. I know if I were set to be a major college star player I would sign at the school that would give me the biggest stage, the best competition to play against and the easiest class schedule so that it helps pave my way to that golden payday waiting for me in the NFL. In this day and age, those schools are USC, Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.

I do have to say the talk about them instituting an NFL rookie salary cap is very good news, especially for places like Notre Dame. It would give less emphasis on the rock star payday the NFL Draft has become and more importance on getting a degree to fall back on should the pro career not work out.

BTW Garish, another couple positions that are huge are things like wideout and cornerback. Think Deion Sanders would have ever gotten into ND? I know we've got great wideouts now, and have in the past, but one that wanted to come here and couldn't was Randy Moss. How nice of a target would he have been?

 

[phork]

Cutliffe with Duke Football won 4 games this year, in his first year on the job, they even held navy to 207 yards rushing and beat them by 10 points!

 

[dre1919]

That's because Cutcliffe is a good coach. Actually, he was tapped to be the offensive coordinator here before his ailing health forced him to retire from coaching for a bit. I don't remember, was he supposed to be Ty's OC or Charlie's? I wanna say Charlie's.

 

[SpeedsterX]

He was Charlie's first OC but didn't even make it to game 1 before his health troubles. I also found it odd that when he got better, immediately went back to coaching but not to ND. Hmmmm,,,,

 

[NDMontana]

That's because Cutcliffe is a good coach. Actually, he was tapped to be the offensive coordinator here before his ailing health forced him to retire from coaching for a bit. I don't remember, was he supposed to be Ty's OC or Charlie's? I wanna say Charlie's.

Charlie's.

 

[ARALOU]

He was Charlie's first OC but didn't even make it to game 1 before his health troubles. I also found it odd that when he got better, immediately went back to coaching but not to ND. Hmmmm,,,,

I think he was off for a year and half. He went back to Tennessee as OC. He had by-pass surgery.

 

[SpeedsterX]

I think he was off for a year and half. He went back to Tennessee as OC. He had by-pass surgery.

Wow! I didn't realize it was a year and a half. That's a while. Makes more sense now. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[gairish]

interesting read

interesting read

Jonesman is right. Holtz even said so much last week when he said there is no reason why Notre Dame cant compete for a National Title year in and year out. These guys are not being lead correctly. What are you going to do next year when Charlie is let go after game 4 because we're 2-2 and its much the same. Its coaching coaching coaching. Not that Charlie hasnt tried or is not a stud but there is a problem here that is as plain as the nose on your face. Its motivation and getting a college football player prepared to play a football game. Once again in the pros motivation is not even talked about its a given and it does come down to x's and o's. I played a sport as a professional and motivation was not in the equation as we were trying to earn a living. Some of my best coaches never played a game in the major leagues and it didnt matter because we felt their direction could help us and so we bought in. College players feed off of a cause or are motivated in a different way and it seems to me that isnt being tapped into.

 

[brentlycat]

GOD I love notre dame football always have always will if you look at it we have suffered from incompetent coaching for 15 years we should have never gave davie the gig that was the begining of the end.