Weis and Bowl Game

[tko]

ok, say weis is retained and ND goes to a bowl and gets embarrassed by an "inferior" school and plays lifeless what happens then? i have this sick feeling in my stomach that there will be a feeding frenzy on an Irish team in turmoil. we all know teams that play ND always bring their best regardless of record or circumstances, i.e. syracuse this year. can we regroup and go into a bowl and actually pound somebody? i believe having floyd back will aid our chances and hopefully armando allen but i'm not sure what his status is regarding his knee. let's banter please.

 

[dre1919]

He'd be fired obviously. Better question is, what happens if he wins? Then you have someone with a worse winning percentage than Willingham, has lost to an 8 loss team (ND first), had 15 losses in two seasons (ND first), lost to Navy (first time in 44 seasons), and has very lopsided USC losses. But, the bright side is he's a good recruiter and just brought us our first bowl win in 15 years. What then?

 

[tko]

He'd be fired obviously. Better question is, what happens if he wins? Then you have someone with a worse winning percentage than Willingham, has lost to an 8 loss team (ND first), had 15 losses in two seasons (ND first), lost to Navy (first time in 44 seasons), and has very lopsided USC losses. But, the bright side is he's a good recruiter and just brought us our first bowl win in 15 years. What then?

contract extension, LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NDMontana]

If Weis is retained than that is the end of the story. What happens in the bowl game will be irrelevant. The administration is not going to fire a coach in January. That would leave the new coach in an unmanageable position. The recruits would leave, he wouldn't have time to find more recruits....and the list could go on.

The bottom line is that the administration may not be intelligent but they aren't foolish enough to fire CW based on one game. If they are going to fire him it's going to be based on his body of work. Even the most ardent anti-CW people would, if they think about it, agree that January is not the time to fire a coach.

 

[windsome]

Everyone brings their A game to play ND??? Which explains why we lost to Syracuse? Syracuse??? You're living in the distant past, my friend. We stink, and we ought to be embarrassed to be talking about any bowl game, a game where we'll probably play some 4 loss team and get blown out. Let NBC off the hook for this contract so we'll cease to be subjected to national exposure and ridicule, schedule as many service academies as possible, and pretend it's 1948.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Everyone brings their A game to play ND??? Which explains why we lost to Syracuse? Syracuse??? You're living in the distant past, my friend. We stink, and we ought to be embarrassed to be talking about any bowl game, a game where we'll probably play some 4 loss team and get blown out. Let NBC off the hook for this contract so we'll cease to be subjected to national exposure and ridicule, schedule as many service academies as possible, and pretend it's 1948.

That is just an awful post and it is painfully clear you are not a true ND fan

 

[PADOMERNUT]

ok, say weis is retained and ND goes to a bowl and gets embarrassed by an "inferior" school and plays lifeless what happens then? i have this sick feeling in my stomach that there will be a feeding frenzy on an Irish team in turmoil. we all know teams that play ND always bring their best regardless of record or circumstances, i.e. syracuse this year. can we regroup and go into a bowl and actually pound somebody? i believe having floyd back will aid our chances and hopefully armando allen but i'm not sure what his status is regarding his knee. let's banter please.

If Weis makes it to a bowl game, he will be here next year. As NDMontana said, they will not fire a coach that late.

 

[tko]

If Weis makes it to a bowl game, he will be here next year. As NDMontana said, they will not fire a coach that late.

i'm not saying he's going to get canned after a bowl loss. i'm trying to paint the picture of weis being retained, losing poorly in a bowl game to an inferior team, and having that negative karma hovering over us going into the '09 season. that's all.

 

[tko]

If Weis is retained than that is the end of the story. What happens in the bowl game will be irrelevant. The administration is not going to fire a coach in January. That would leave the new coach in an unmanageable position. The recruits would leave, he wouldn't have time to find more recruits....and the list could go on.

The bottom line is that the administration may not be intelligent but they aren't foolish enough to fire CW based on one game. If they are going to fire him it's going to be based on his body of work. Even the most ardent anti-CW people would, if they think about it, agree that January is not the time to fire a coach.

i realize ND isn't going to fire weis after a bowl loss. that would be utter stupidity.

 

[texpanhandle.irish]

Firing Weiss that late would be a disaster. Unless the talks about going after Urban Meyer are true. That would be great for the Irish and in my opinion it doesn't matter if it takes until March to get him it would be better for the Irish. I'm not totally against Weiss, I think he would be a great offensive coordinator, and if Notre Dame kept him in that capacity that would be great. But, as far a head coach I truly believe that the Irish needs someone with some fire in their belly. I know the longhorns won't let him go, but if the Irish were to go after Will Muschamp for head coach and keep Weiss as offensive coordinator, Notre Dame would be dangerous next year. I also think the head coach from Rutgers would be a good prospect because of his recruiting contacts in the Notre Dame area of recruiting.

 

[tko]

Firing Weiss that late would be a disaster. Unless the talks about going after Urban Meyer are true. That would be great for the Irish and in my opinion it doesn't matter if it takes until March to get him it would be better for the Irish. I'm not totally against Weiss, I think he would be a great offensive coordinator, and if Notre Dame kept him in that capacity that would be great. But, as far a head coach I truly believe that the Irish needs someone with some fire in their belly. I know the longhorns won't let him go, but if the Irish were to go after Will Muschamp for head coach and keep Weiss as offensive coordinator, Notre Dame would be dangerous next year. I also think the head coach from Rutgers would be a good prospect because of his recruiting contacts in the Notre Dame area of recruiting.

again, it's Weis, one S. Weiss, two S's, played shortstop for the Oakland A's. in a perfect world having charlie as OC works but i just don't see any way he takes a back seat on the college level, particularly at ND.

 

[NDMontana]

If CW isn't going to be the head coach than he I don't want him here at all. Some of you guys are suggesting CW as the offensive coordinator....why? Have you seen our offense? It's his playbook and he's been calling the plays for three straight weeks. I have to tell you that I don't like what I've seen in the last three weeks. I don't like what I've seen the last two and a half years, for that matter.

 

[texpanhandle.irish]

If CW isn't going to be the head coach than he I don't want him here at all. Some of you guys are suggesting CW as the offensive coordinator....why? Have you seen our offense? It's his playbook and he's been calling the plays for three straight weeks. I have to tell you that I don't like what I've seen in the last three weeks. I don't like what I've seen the last two and a half years, for that matter.

The thing I don't like about CW as o.c. is that he has tried to replace the pathetic running game with screens, and more screens. However I do think he does have a great passing package. I just don't know why he has moved away from passes to the middle of the field, and crossing routes that worked so well for the Patriots when he was there. I understand we don't have Tom Brady for quarterback, and the out routes may work better against coverages that are used in the collegiate ranks. I really think if he would have replaced the running game with a mid range passing game and used the talented running backs Notre Dame has, this season would have been way different. I just want to know if anyone has done the homework on how ineffective the screen game has been this season.

 

[NDMontana]

The thing I don't like about CW as o.c. is that he has tried to replace the pathetic running game with screens, and more screens. However I do think he does have a great passing package. I just don't know why he has moved away from passes to the middle of the field, and crossing routes that worked so well for the Patriots when he was there. I understand we don't have Tom Brady for quarterback, and the out routes may work better against coverages that are used in the collegiate ranks. I really think if he would have replaced the running game with a mid range passing game and used the talented running backs Notre Dame has, this season would have been way different. I just want to know if anyone has done the homework on how ineffective the screen game has been this season.

I don't know that anyone can provide concrete statistics regarding the screen game but plenty of people have commented on how ineffective it's been.

I, too, have not been able to grasp the passing game. Rudolph is a wonderful young tight end but we never use him to open up the rest of the field. When CW first arrived he used the tight end position frequently with Fasano and then Carlson. He seems to have forgotten that position, however. We seem to have two plays in our arsenal: lob pass to a receiver running a fly pattern and out routes. He hasn't used the middle of the field at all. That isn't necessarily CW's fault--Clausen may not be looking to throw over the middle enough--but he should be encouraging JC to use the tight end more.

 

[tko]

i also miss seeing the crossing route like samardjiza used to run. we had so much success with that route. stretch the field down the middle and beyond and have a guy come wide open across and underneath. do you guys remember allen wide open against stanford? it's truly amazing how dull and boring our playcalling is these days. i know charlie watches other teams play, doesn't he get ideas or does his arrogance get in the way?

 

[texpanhandle.irish]

I think his arrogance is the most accurate reason of why the Irish have struggled this season. Like I mentioned earlier about the screen, there were times this season he ran some form of a screen three downs in a row and it was three and out. Screens and draws traditionally have been used to thwart blitzes and heavy pass rushes after a team has established either a mid range passing game or a running game. I also agree with the fact that the lack of plays to the tight end has hurt the Irish this season. Before the NC game CW said trying to run the ball was like banging your head against the wall so they were going to spread it out and spread the ball around. I personally don't like the spread offense that much but I think he was on to something, but the following week and for the rest of the season he just kept banging his head against the wall with his play calling.

 

[NDMontana]

Interesting little article in the SBT today about Notre Dame possibly landing in the Sun Bowl against Oregon State.

Normally this wouldn't be noteworthy but just last week, in one of the threads here, there was a huge debate concerning how ND would fare against Oregon State. An ND/OSU match-up could make the bowl a lot more interesting than it would otherwise be, if for no other reason than it would actually settle a debate on this board!!

 

[tko]

i don't like our chances in that game. i will probably have flashbacks from the bob davie debacle in the fiesta bowl against them. a win in that game though w/b huge for our guys. it w/b a tremendous confidence boost going into '09.

 

[NDMontana]

i don't like our chances in that game. i will probably have flashbacks from the bob davie debacle in the fiesta bowl against them. a win in that game though w/b huge for our guys. it w/b a tremendous confidence boost going into '09.

It would be a hell of a spring board into next season.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

i also miss seeing the crossing route like samardjiza used to run. we had so much success with that route. stretch the field down the middle and beyond and have a guy come wide open across and underneath. do you guys remember allen wide open against stanford? it's truly amazing how dull and boring our playcalling is these days. i know charlie watches other teams play, doesn't he get ideas or does his arrogance get in the way?

Absolutely right! On Saturday, I felt like I only saw about 3 different plays. I used to love the quick pass to Shark right at the LOS and then the major YAC he would get off those plays. Seems to me, if Jimmy is under pressure, a quick hitter like that would work. Also the quick slants are virtually non-existent. And the TE passes - don't even get me started.

 

[tko]

very early in the year jimmy simply wasn't looking for the TE, who was wide open. then he started a stretch where he was finding rudolph and we were clicking. finally, the last 5 games or so that portion of the offense was completely stripped away. it makes zero sense. the TE s/b old yeller out there, mr. reliable, a safety valve.

 

[NDMontana]

ESPN - ESPN The Magazine

I just found this video on ESPN. A USC student talks to some ND students about the football program and the direction it has taken. One of the interviewees said "We don't have any emotional stake in the outcome of the games anymore."

Not a good thing to hear.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't know that anyone can provide concrete statistics regarding the screen game but plenty of people have commented on how ineffective it's been.

I, too, have not been able to grasp the passing game. Rudolph is a wonderful young tight end but we never use him to open up the rest of the field. When CW first arrived he used the tight end position frequently with Fasano and then Carlson. He seems to have forgotten that position, however. We seem to have two plays in our arsenal: lob pass to a receiver running a fly pattern and out routes. He hasn't used the middle of the field at all. That isn't necessarily CW's fault--Clausen may not be looking to throw over the middle enough--but he should be encouraging JC to use the tight end more.

agreed. many teams focused nearly all of their energy on stopping the WRs on the outside, and I can't tell you how many times i went nuts because the middle was wide open. Remember back before the first game, CW said the reasion he started Rudolph is because "he could get down field faster" than the rest of the TEs. It amazes me that he never let him run the route that he would "get down field." It is absolutely astonishing.

 

[JeremyND07]

ESPN - ESPN The Magazine

I just found this video on ESPN. A USC student talks to some ND students about the football program and the direction it has taken. One of the interviewees said "We don't have any emotional stake in the outcome of the games anymore."

Not a good thing to hear.

I think that is true of a lot of fans...not just students. You only can take so much losing and high hopes to finally not just give a rats ass anymore. I am still very passionate about ND but a lose does not ruin my weekend like it did in the early too mid 90's that is for damn sure!

 

[Dacian_Irish]

ESPN - ESPN The Magazine

I just found this video on ESPN. A USC student talks to some ND students about the football program and the direction it has taken. One of the interviewees said "We don't have any emotional stake in the outcome of the games anymore."

Not a good thing to hear.

I don't believe anything ESPN says about ND anymore!

 

[tjirish34]

CW doing more damage than any past coach...

CW doing more damage than any past coach...

Why you ask. Because Charlie Weis has created something in ND fans that was not there. Even when ND struggled under past coaches. That is FAN APATHY. I have rarely watched ND this season. I know another big ND fan who told me he felt same thing and others... Understand these are BIG ND fans not band wagoners. I flew to Ireland in 96 see ND/Navy game. I just don't care... ND sucks. It's flat out EMBARRASSING that ND is playing in a bowl game. Past good coaches would have turned down a bowl game. I lost alot of respect over the Willingham firing. Yes it looks like he was not a great fit. But if davie got 5 years. Willingham should have gotten 5 years. Especially since Willingham said it would take at least 3 years to learn the west coast Offense and bring in right players for it. Which he was doing. Fans forget Willingham's last season ND lost 3 games in last minutes. I am not saying he was answer. But his firing was bungled. Willingham was fired to hire Urban Meyer. Who promptly went to Florida. So Weis hired. He BS'ed school into thinking he might go Pro (how funny is that now?). School panicked and signed him to that extension. This leads me believe even if Charlie fired nothing will change. The problems with ND football go alot higher than the coach. It's how decisions are made. Me thinks the school hierachy interferes with the AD and athletic department. Until ND changes it's hiring system and is willing to put out big money for a coach. Nothing will change. ND has become the Cubs. They lose but win off field. Read $$!

 

[nd1988]

ok, say weis is retained and ND goes to a bowl and gets embarrassed by an "inferior" school and plays lifeless what happens then? i have this sick feeling in my stomach that there will be a feeding frenzy on an Irish team in turmoil. we all know teams that play ND always bring their best regardless of record or circumstances, i.e. syracuse this year. can we regroup and go into a bowl and actually pound somebody? i believe having floyd back will aid our chances and hopefully armando allen but i'm not sure what his status is regarding his knee. let's banter please.

We have the players to actually "pound" someone. If I remember right... CW is against that.. Why? So.. If we had a coach that could coach the players to "pound the shit" out of the other teams...We would not be having this discussion.

 

[NDMontana]

agreed. many teams focused nearly all of their energy on stopping the WRs on the outside, and I can't tell you how many times i went nuts because the middle was wide open. Remember back before the first game, CW said the reasion he started Rudolph is because "he could get down field faster" than the rest of the TEs. It amazes me that he never let him run the route that he would "get down field." It is absolutely astonishing.

It seems that we should have red shirted Rudolph because we've only exploited his talent in one game. Oh well....

 

[NDMontana]

I think that is true of a lot of fans...not just students. You only can take so much losing and high hopes to finally not just give a rats ass anymore. I am still very passionate about ND but a lose does not ruin my weekend like it did in the early too mid 90's that is for damn sure!

I'm in the same boat. It's probably healthier for us to be detached from the team but it's not healthy for the school. I will always love Notre Dame but eventually I'm going to stop watching games and buying apparel. I'll just watch the good teams and check in on Notre Dame's scores. While I won't switch allegiances, I'm already on the brink of just not giving a shit anymore. There are a lot of games and teams that are more enjoyable to watch.

 

[NDMontana]

I don't believe anything ESPN says about ND anymore!

I'm not a fan of ESPN either but this is a video created by a student, not by the network.