Duke Ex Post Facto: Is Circumspection Grounds for Banishment?

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SteveM

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I think Clausen played a pretty good game. His first TD pass was very nicely throw ball. But I don't get how guys here extrapolate that one performance to greatness. It was one game for crying out loud. Against Duke! The title of this thread portends my probable excommunication for the graven heretical position that Jimmy may be "blessed" at this point, but I ain't seen enough miracles to declare him a saint.

Seeing Duke's offense allowed me to realize how USC saw Notre Dame's. Duke Football is a synonym for "Hapless" in Webster's Dictionary. What do you think Sharpley would have done had he been out there? Pretty good I bet.

So sure, Clausen showed an upside. I can be hopeful, but until he makes it happen in a game that matters I have to reserve judgment about his outyear premium.

And the game itself, Duke handed us two TD's on turnovers which set up the win against a team whose hopes probably couldn't survive more than a 7 point deficit going into the locker room at halftime. And the sloppy 15 yard penalties scream out indiscipline which is nuts this far into the season.

So I'm glad Hughes is back. He's a big tough kid, Trevor Laws is a horse and Carlson is a solid receiver who should get the ball more.

Good game - sorta. Stomping mediocrity just means you can...well, stomp mediocrity. So my fingers are crossed but my eyes are wide open.
 

johnnd05

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"Sorta good" is exactly right. But hey, that's a pretty big step up at this point. Here's what I wrote for the blog ...

"Here we go again ..."

A phantom personal foul after a long completion just outside the goal line. A missed field goal. An inefficient drive following a defensive stand, and then a late hit in punt coverage that gets flagged for 15 yards. These are the kinds of plays that have killed the Irish offense all year long, and for a while on Saturday they did the same.

Mistakes breed mistakes like rabbits in the Spring: a false start on fourth-and-two, a beautiful pass on fourth-and-17 that goes through the receiver's hands, and suddenly you're staring at 0-0 halftime score against one of the worst teams in college football.

And then, the momentum changes: the defense forces turnovers on consecutive drives, and each of them is turned quickly into seven points. It's 14-0 at the half. You've got things back under control.

THAT'S the storyline that matters from Saturday's game. Not the 400 yards of total offense, not the three touchdown passes by <strong>Jimmy Clausen</strong>, not even the explosive emergence of <strong>Robert Hughes</strong> or the always-gratifying Senior Day win. For once, this team showed a bit of resiliency: they didn't let themselves get overwhelmed when things went badly. And say what you will about the quality of their opponent, but a 28-7 win (which could very well have been more like 42-0 if not for mental mistakes and bad calls) is a 28-7 win. Suddenly the future looks a lot brighter.

A few numbers to take away from the game:
<ul>
<li>Hughes (17 carries for 110 net yards, and a reception for another 13) obviously earned that game ball, though <strong>Armando Allen</strong> (nine rushes for 43 yards, and two receptions for 17) and <strong>James Aldridge</strong> (eight carries for 28 yards, plus a catch for another seven) had solid days as well. One of the biggest challenges facing <strong>Charlie Weis</strong> (or whoever is calling the plays) in 2008 will be finding a way to get enough carries for each of his three horsemen, together with throwing enough balls in the direction of <strong>Duval Kamara</strong>, <strong>George West</strong>, <strong>Robby Parris</strong>, and <strong>Golden Tate</strong>, not to mention <strong>David Grimes</strong>, <strong>Will Yeatman</strong>, <strong>Mike Ragone</strong>, and <strong>Michael Floyd</strong>. The talent is there; I imagine they'll enjoy letting the spotlight fall where it may.</li>
<li>Clausen's numbers (16-of-32 for 194 yards and three touchdowns) don't speak to how well he played, especially given that at least four or five catchable balls were dropped. He also showed some good presence in the pocket, and did a good job of avoiding pressure, picking up 25 yards on his six scrambles.</li>
<li>The offensive line continued to show some signs of improvement, though pass protection was still a bit spotty at times. It was especially nice to see the screen game start to click.</li>
<li><strong>Joe Brockington</strong>, <strong>David Bruton</strong>, <strong>Trevor Laws</strong>, and <strong>Darrin Walls</strong> each had a half-dozen tackles, and the defense on a whole played very well. This was the first time this year we saw freshmen <strong>Kerry Neal</strong> and <strong>Brian Smith</strong> both starting at the outside linebacker position, and they had quiet but solid days with three tackles a piece. Freshman<strong> Ian Williams</strong> getting his first start at the nose guard position, also played well, picking up three tackles and generally doing a good job of clogging up the middle.</li>
<li>The Irish possessed the ball for over 35 minutes, the first time all year they've really managed to control the clock - their previous high had been 32:02 against UCLA.</li>
</ul>
Finally, a few areas where a good deal of work is still needed:
<ul>
<li> I've already mentioned the troubles in pass protection, as well as the dropped balls by the wide receivers. Clausen's never going to be able to win those seven Heismans if his teammates don't help him out.</li>
<li>While the Irish pass defense was largely sound, giving up only 138 total passing yards, there were still some blown coverages, and Duke could have picked up some more yardage if open receivers hadn't been missed.</li>
<li><strong>J.J. Jansen's</strong> long-snapping was iffy once again, though <strong>Eric Maust</strong> made a remarkable play to bail him out and get the punt away under pressure.</li>
<li>Notre Dame continues to lack any semblance of consistency in the kicking game, as <strong>Brandon Walker</strong> missed his lone field goal attempt, from 30 yards out. It may have had something to do with the weather, but those are the kind of kicks you've got to make. It will be a shame if the Irish continue to cripple themselves by having to go for broke on fourth down instead of putting points on the board the cheap way.</li>
<li>Lastly, penalties were a problem once again: the Irish were whistled eleven times for 103 yards, after committing only nine penalties in their previous three games combined.</li>
</ul>
All in all, a solid day against an undermanned opponent. There should be plenty more of those in the future as this team continues to develop.
 

IrishinTN

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Hey, whatever you want to do to your Johnson is up to you...oh, wait. Circumspection. My bad. Look, if you want to Tear into every pass, you can find things to bitch about. But a win is a win, last time I checked. And Claussen showed that one thing you said is missing in much of the team - discipline. He tucked and ran when it was appropriate. He threw it away when it was appropriate. And he got it to the open recievers. In fact, his numbers would have been fantastic were it not for 6 dropped passes. And I don't mean six balls that happened to hit a receiver in the hands. These balls hit guys squarely in the bread basket.

I for one am extremely happy to get a "W", even if it was against lowly Duke. It's better than the alternative.
 

GoIrish41

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For Jimmy, I think it is all about building confidence at this point. And, if there is one thing that he has shown in the past two weeks is that his confidence is growing. Sure, this win wasn't against Michigan or USC, but it is a start. For the first eight games this year, Clausen would have had no way of knowing what if felt like to operate in the offense because ND was just horrible on that side of the ball. Another solid performance against Stanford (again, I know it isn't Michigan or USC) and I think it puts him in a good place going into next year. At the beginning of this season, his head had to be spinning with all the hype surrounding him and the distraction of who would be the QB. Next year, a confident veteran QB will be under center, and the rest of the team will feed off that confidence.
 

NDFan4Life

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You seem to have a problem with grasping the fact that Jimmy's only a freshman. Of course mistakes are going to be made. IMO, he's done extremely well in the past game & a half.

This season has been a disaster for everyone (fans & the team). What gets to me is that some fans continue to denigrate and ridicule the team. Whatever happened to standing behind a team no matter what?

When the commentators were talking about the year when Joe Theismann was up for the Heisman trophy (1970), I realized how long I've been an ND fan. 38 years. Yeah, that's right. 38 years. Trust me, I've seen the best and the worst of ND football. But I've never turned my back on them. I'll continue to stand behind them until the day I die.

Yesterday's game was a win for both the team and the fans. They deserve more respect than saying that it was only Duke.
 
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SteveM

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I cried myself to sleep when ND lost to USC during the Simpson years. So I know what that is all about.

But if the point of the blog is to only rah, rah the Irish rather than think a little more deeply about what we observe (as fans of the team), well what's the point of posting if the group-think assumption has to be that everything is copasetically transitioning to an inevitable reclamation to greatness.

Part of Clausen's "charm" was because the announcers felt so sorry for ND, they talked him up in order to point out something, anything that was positive with team.

He showed some poise on Saturday and threw some good balls. But he's still a too small guy with not very good feet. Does he have the genetics and the desire to put on the 20-25 pounds of muscle he needs to hang tough in the pocket and shake off some some tacklers? Will he develop 2 steps more of quickness to evade the rush? Will he develop the field sense to feel back side pressure and flow to an opportunity?

Who the hell knows at this point? But oh, I forgot, the rules of the blog mandates that kind of positive prescience. So I guess in this forum it's guaranteed that those things will indeed happen
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Steve, we've been thinking 'deeply' for the last coupla months. Let's just enjoy the win, get past one more game, sign our recruits, and see how the team improves the next time JC takes the field as a soph.
 

Akron Irish

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Steve - were you this critical of Brady when he played his freshman year. He got destroyed. Some games, I couldn't believe he left the game walking upright. But he turned it to a great QB. Give Jimmy a chance.
 
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SteveM

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I'm assuming my banishment starts at midnight, so I'll squeeze this in before 12.

Agree with the Quinn observation. (But it was obvious he had the physical tools even as freshman.) I'm just saying that some guys are hypercritical but other guys are drawing opposite conclusions based on too little information. And speaking of "who the hell knows", with Charlie, that goes double...

P.S. You know, personally, I don't think that Charlie had all that much to do with Brady's success. You could track his maturation in years one and two and know that given his physical skills and his intelligence he would be there as a senior. Clausen just does not have the tool set, which makes the uncertainty problematic.

BTW, I was watching a cooking show and the Italian hostess (Rose Ann Esposito) asked a guest chef where he learned to cook. He said from his Italian grandmother. His other grandmother was Irish. Rose Ann asked him what he learned about cooking from her and he replied "Clean as you go".
 

Steve

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yeah, ban his ass and change his name!

jk SteveM......maaaaaybe
 

Akron Irish

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I find it hard to believe that you think Claussen doesn't have the tool set. #1 ranked QB out of high school and the ridiculous numbers that he had back then. True, it was high school. But you've got to give him time to adjust to the game speed and his receivers (and their hands).
 
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SteveM

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Boys, I'm traversing to the wilderness until Tuesday. Banished to repent and cleanse my heart. Clad in sack cloth and ashes, subsisting on honey and locusts. (Well maybe I'll be wearing gym shorts and subsist on pizza and beer.)

God speed to you with the fervent hope that I myself come back not only a chastened, but better man...

Adieu...
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Sounded like you were going on Survivor for a minute. Good luck, cause if you don't change your attitude.....you'll end up as Beckham's biggest fan.

beckham-harg.jpg



P.S. Don't let him bend it.
 

ColonialHead

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I think Clausen played a pretty good game. His first TD pass was very nicely throw ball. But I don't get how guys here extrapolate that one performance to greatness. It was one game for crying out loud. Against Duke! The title of this thread portends my probable excommunication for the graven heretical position that Jimmy may be "blessed" at this point, but I ain't seen enough miracles to declare him a saint.

Seeing Duke's offense allowed me to realize how USC saw Notre Dame's. Duke Football is a synonym for "Hapless" in Webster's Dictionary. What do you think Sharpley would have done had he been out there? Pretty good I bet.

So sure, Clausen showed an upside. I can be hopeful, but until he makes it happen in a game that matters I have to reserve judgment about his outyear premium.

And the game itself, Duke handed us two TD's on turnovers which set up the win against a team whose hopes probably couldn't survive more than a 7 point deficit going into the locker room at halftime. And the sloppy 15 yard penalties scream out indiscipline which is nuts this far into the season.

So I'm glad Hughes is back. He's a big tough kid, Trevor Laws is a horse and Carlson is a solid receiver who should get the ball more.

Good game - sorta. Stomping mediocrity just means you can...well, stomp mediocrity. So my fingers are crossed but my eyes are wide open.

p779643.jpg
 

SouthernIrish

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HEY! no disrespecting of the Becks!!!

he will be in the future female Hot or Not thread

and he is HOT
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Well, just like myself and SteveM...if you put yourself out there, sometimes you get some well-deserved (in good fun) grief.
 

johnnd05

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SteveM, I completely agree that it's too early to anoint Clausen. But as to the two specific points you raise, (1) he'll get bigger and stronger with a year of conditioning, and (2) I think he's done some really nice things with his feet to avoid the pressure, ESPECIALLY yesterday. I don't know why you think that Brady showed evidence at this age of being a better QB than Jimmy is: I guess he threw some nice deep bombs to Shelton, but the fact is that he was FAR less accurate, playing behind a FAR better offensive line than this one. JC looks really good for a true freshman playing on a team like this one and being asked to do as much as he's been asked to do - whether he blossoms into a Heisman candidate remains to be seen, but it's hard to deny that the future looks very bright.
 

Wham

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I find it hard to believe that you think Claussen doesn't have the tool set. #1 ranked QB out of high school and the ridiculous numbers that he had back then. True, it was high school. But you've got to give him time to adjust to the game speed and his receivers (and their hands).

And I was ranked #1 in Who's Who in America.

I had a good advertising manager.

It is a good sales gimmick, but why should your #1 "ranked" athlete adjust to the game speed and his receivers? Shouldn't the game adjust to him? Isn't he, (according to this publication that charges to read their "opinion") the one that lesser athletes should be adjusting to?

(I think the guy has pro football ability. He needs to get stronger.)
 
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Wham

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Boys, I'm traversing to the wilderness until Tuesday. Banished to repent and cleanse my heart. Clad in sack cloth and ashes, subsisting on honey and locusts. (Well maybe I'll be wearing gym shorts and subsist on pizza and beer.)

God speed to you with the fervent hope that I myself come back not only a chastened, but better man...

Adieu...

Holy poopeedoopee dude. My 37 kids are going to beg borrow steal in order to go to Notre Dame, if you are an example of what ND turns out. Otherwise, I will have to sell them to scientists for experimental purposes.
 

Wham

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SteveM, I completely agree that it's too early to anoint Clausen. But as to the two specific points you raise, (1) he'll get bigger and stronger with a year of conditioning, and (2) I think he's done some really nice things with his feet to avoid the pressure, ESPECIALLY yesterday. I don't know why you think that Brady showed evidence at this age of being a better QB than Jimmy is: I guess he threw some nice deep bombs to Shelton, but the fact is that he was FAR less accurate, playing behind a FAR better offensive line than this one. JC looks really good for a true freshman playing on a team like this one and being asked to do as much as he's been asked to do - whether he blossoms into a Heisman candidate remains to be seen, but it's hard to deny that the future looks very bright.

Quin had better arm strength at JC's age, but Quin had poor offensive coaching under TW. JC has super accuracy. He will be unstoppable when he gets stronger.
 
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