This is why Charlie is the man.

[onenybrother]

Still a Weis guy - NCAA Football - Yahoo! Sports

 

[KAPLAN]

Only thing it said we could end up 1-10, we play 12 games and will not get beat by Stanford and Duke. We should also beat Air Force.

 

[onenybrother]

Only thing it said we could end up 1-10, we play 12 games and will not get beat by Stanford and Duke. We should also beat Air Force.

It talked about the talent Charlie has coming in.

 

[Newc]

That was a good article, thanks NY. He makes a very good point, and if you look throughout the years it makes alot of sense. College ball is more dependent on players rather than schemes. Its why SC has become such a force, we all know of Carroll's success in the NFL, so talent has the be the reason there.

Lets just hope that is the case with the guys that Charlie is able to bring in and hope that the dynasty starts sooner than later.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

Listen, if Charlie Weis brings in this class of recruits and in two years from now we are not going to a BCS bowl game and competing, that this will go down as the biggest bust of recruiting by any one coach in the history of college football. We ARE getting the players, just be patient guys.

 

[SteveM]

I’m excited about ND’s recruiting class. But other than that reporting, Wetzel doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Re: In the NFL, where the talent is relatively even, innovation is imperative. Thus the game is far more complex. That's probably why Weis figured this would be easy. He thought he knew more football than these college guys.

But in college, talent wins out. Nebraska won for decades running the exact same wishbone offense – not because it confused anyone, but mostly because its linemen were bigger and tailbacks faster.

It’s obviously a unique combination of coaching and talent that wins at both levels. There are tons of examples of college coaches who won more than they were entitled to because of their coaching ability. Think of George Welsh at UVA, Hayden Fry at Iowa (Iowa?!), and Fisher DeBerry at Air Force. And of course Navy these past few years. And there’s guys that trashed programs that had talent pipelines wired. E.g., Bill Callahan at Nebraska.

In some respects, college football is a tougher coaching challenge because there are more diverse offenses, while the NFL is a “me-too” league. The NFL is more complex in that they do more to disguise coverages and they have to adapt to the superior overall team speed. But they have the luxury again, because they see a pro set offense week after week. Variations of a single archetype.

Anyway remember the quote from Florida A&M Jake Gaither about Bear Bryant

"He can take his'n' and beat you'rn', and he can take you'rn' and beat his'n,”

There’s a lot to be said for that. About Charlie – we’ll see.

 

[JeremyND07]

There are exceptions to the rule...lower tier teams loaded with Seniors that gel well and programs that can muster enough heart to beat anyone (Service Academys). But I think over all he is right on target! So, the next 3 years Weis should have no excuses!!!! Is it signing day yet?

 

[irish4ever]

Only thing it said we could end up 1-10, we play 12 games and will not get beat by Stanford and Duke. We should also beat Air Force.

Most Irish fans didn't think that they would lose to Navy either. Especially being that it was a home game, 2 weeks to prepare and thinking that the players would be extra "hungry" for their 2nd win of the year. Nothing is a "given" this year for ND!

 

[KAPLAN]

Navy is not good do not get me wrong but they would stomp Duke and Stanford. At least our offense showed a pulse.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I thought the article was fair. Now whether CW turns out to in fact be "the man" will be up to him and what the team does the next couple of years.

 

[Moostache]

About 5 weeks ago I had said that Charlie Weis would never fit into the Davie or Willingham prism....for the simple fact that he is a Notre Dame man through and through and has a love of the university and the program that neither of his other two predecessors shares.

At the time, I said that 2 options were on the table for Weis in recent historical comparisons - either the Holtz path or the Faust path. Both men were great people...both loved the university and still do to this day. Both could attract highly rated recruiting classes. Only one could coach effectively at the D-1 level.

At this point, Weis still has one thing against him that Lou never had to deal with...he has a self-imposed scholarship reduction that mirrors an NCAA probation in a lot of ways. That doesn't excuse the bizarre playcalls or the lack of visceral progress in the offense this year, but it does explain how this could happen and why people, rational sane people at that, could still believe Weis could turn out more like Holtz than like Faust.

Starting in 2008, there will be no more excuses.

- the scholarships will be back to the full amount allowed
- the players remaining will all have Charlie Weis ties and be Charlie's guys in one way or another.
- the players returning will have game experience and at least TWO training camps and Spring sessions unde their belts.
- the incoming players will be among the most coveted players in the nation at every position; and more than a few will see early playign time because they will be better than those ahead of them in the depth charts now.
- the O-Line will be starting mainly juniors - a time when most O-lines in college start to come into their own and devlop (notable exceptions allowed, just a general trend...)
- most importantly, Clausen will have been fully healed and capable of weight training and working out with his receivers for another 9 months. This will give Weis back one of the ingredients missing in this year's team - an experienced and talented QB.

All of these things combined are STILL true, even after a 46-44 3OT loss to Navy dropped the team to an unfathomable 1-8 mark on the year. Prior to that game I believed ND would win out and finish at 5-7. They did not win it and they will finish with the worst ND record in 44 years no matter what no matter what happens in the final 3 games.

The fact that it took a plethora of ND errors, some mystifying coaching decisions and 3 OTs and then some for Navy to beat the Irish says something that gets too easily glossed over....Navy won the game true enough, but they had to be almost perfect in every way to make it happen - and when they weren't, ND did them a tremendous favor by failing to capitalize. Navy won the game, but no one in their right mind belives the Navy program is better than the ND program going forward, or really that Navy would win if the game was replayed today.

In the end, after the shock and horror wore off, I was forced to confront this blunt truth - is there really much difference between 5-7 and 4-8? ND can still win the last 3 games on the schedule - in fact I expect them to win them all more handily than anyone else believes is possible at this point, but the real difference won't be m,ade until Spring and Fall camps in 2008 and then the 2008 season.

The verdict on Charlie will be final by the end of September 2008. 11 months from now, I am near certain that the answer to whether or not Weis is more like Holtz or Faust will be utterly clear. The real question then becomes, if its the latter instead of the former, what is the AD and the university prepared to do about it?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Still a Weis guy - NCAA Football - Yahoo! Sports

Pretty sharp article. He did not predivct victory for the Irish...but I think he accurately called out where Weis made some big mistakes...none of which is now news, but goes to the heart of the mistakes that were made...as well as the deficiencies that we face. Together they were brutally powerful.

If Weis truly learns from his mistakes, then the coming years will be awesome. If not we will go through the coaching circus in 2009 or 2010.

 

[ITellTheTruth]

About 5 weeks ago I had said that Charlie Weis would never fit into the Davie or Willingham prism....for the simple fact that he is a Notre Dame man through and through and has a love of the university and the program that neither of his other two predecessors shares.

At the time, I said that 2 options were on the table for Weis in recent historical comparisons - either the Holtz path or the Faust path. Both men were great people...both loved the university and still do to this day. Both could attract highly rated recruiting classes. Only one could coach effectively at the D-1 level.

At this point, Weis still has one thing against him that Lou never had to deal with...he has a self-imposed scholarship reduction that mirrors an NCAA probation in a lot of ways. That doesn't excuse the bizarre playcalls or the lack of visceral progress in the offense this year, but it does explain how this could happen and why people, rational sane people at that, could still believe Weis could turn out more like Holtz than like Faust.

Starting in 2008, there will be no more excuses.

- the scholarships will be back to the full amount allowed
- the players remaining will all have Charlie Weis ties and be Charlie's guys in one way or another.
- the players returning will have game experience and at least TWO training camps and Spring sessions unde their belts.
- the incoming players will be among the most coveted players in the nation at every position; and more than a few will see early playign time because they will be better than those ahead of them in the depth charts now.
- the O-Line will be starting mainly juniors - a time when most O-lines in college start to come into their own and devlop (notable exceptions allowed, just a general trend...)
- most importantly, Clausen will have been fully healed and capable of weight training and working out with his receivers for another 9 months. This will give Weis back one of the ingredients missing in this year's team - an experienced and talented QB.

All of these things combined are STILL true, even after a 46-44 3OT loss to Navy dropped the team to an unfathomable 1-8 mark on the year. Prior to that game I believed ND would win out and finish at 5-7. They did not win it and they will finish with the worst ND record in 44 years no matter what no matter what happens in the final 3 games.

The fact that it took a plethora of ND errors, some mystifying coaching decisions and 3 OTs and then some for Navy to beat the Irish says something that gets too easily glossed over....Navy won the game true enough, but they had to be almost perfect in every way to make it happen - and when they weren't, ND did them a tremendous favor by failing to capitalize. Navy won the game, but no one in their right mind belives the Navy program is better than the ND program going forward, or really that Navy would win if the game was replayed today.

In the end, after the shock and horror wore off, I was forced to confront this blunt truth - is there really much difference between 5-7 and 4-8? ND can still win the last 3 games on the schedule - in fact I expect them to win them all more handily than anyone else believes is possible at this point, but the real difference won't be m,ade until Spring and Fall camps in 2008 and then the 2008 season.

The verdict on Charlie will be final by the end of September 2008. 11 months from now, I am near certain that the answer to whether or not Weis is more like Holtz or Faust will be utterly clear. The real question then becomes, if its the latter instead of the former, what is the AD and the university prepared to do about it?

This is a very good post. I agree with 99% of it. However, Navy did not play a perfect game. They played a solid game and capitalized on Weis's mistakes. However, ND was put into 8 4th down situations where they decided to go for it. 8! Against Navy! Navy, a team that is 50lbs lighter per lineman. Navy dude! And going forward, of course ND should be better of than Navy. Navy is a FREAKING service academy with size restrictions and practice restrictions. Frankly, in the modern era, they shouldn't even be competitive with ND. Navy got beat down by Rutgers for God's sake.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Another great post Moos.

Starting in 2008 ...
- the players returning will have game experience and at least TWO training camps and Spring sessions unde their belts.

I hope by now CW has a better spring training program in mind, complete with full speed plays, full hitting, fundamental tackling, and no circus-trick new offenses to learn.

 

[johnnd05]

This is a very good post. I agree with 99% of it. However, Navy did not play a perfect game. They played a solid game and capitalized on Weis's mistakes. However, ND was put into 8 4th down situations where they decided to go for it. 8! Against Navy! Navy, a team that is 50lbs lighter per lineman. Navy dude! And going forward, of course ND should be better of than Navy. Navy is a FREAKING service academy with size restrictions and practice restrictions. Frankly, in the modern era, they shouldn't even be competitive with ND. Navy got beat down by Rutgers for God's sake.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but ... you're exactly right. Navy didn't play a perfect game (missed field goal, fumble, etc.), though they did play a damn good one. And in any case that don't excuse nothin'.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Navy is a FREAKING service academy with size restrictions and practice restrictions. Frankly, in the modern era, they shouldn't even be competitive with ND. Navy got beat down by Rutgers for God's sake.

The service acadamies are tougher opponents than most people give them credit for. Take Tennesee's near loss (31-30 I believe) to Airforce to open their season last year.

I agree we should have beat them this year and should pretty much every year. But people don't give the service acadamies enough credit. Although Army usually isn't as good as AF or Navy on a regular basis.

 

[goldandblue]

I just pray that next year is an entirely different year than this one.

 

[Newc]

I just pray that next year is an entirely different year than this one.

Don't worry, it absolutely will be. There is no way the players or coaches allow this to happen again.

 

[KamaraPolice]

Thats a good article.

Let me say this, look at ASU's offense with coach erickson. You get in the shotgun with 4 receivers, and you wing it. You throw to the open man. It's easy, its basic and it's unstoppable. When you play a better team you may lose, like asu losing to oregon.

But look at notre dame's offense. it's complex, it's difficult and if you dont have experienced guys running the show, it absolutely sucks. I know the nfl offense is a selling point to recruits, but maybe weis should have changed it up, rather than dumbing it down. now all we have is a dumb offense.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

I disagree, our offense is great and once these players get chemistry going into next season together it will be a great force to reckon with.... think about it, once JC knows he has time and can rely on his line we will have a prolific offense.

 

[KamaraPolice]

I disagree, our offense is great and once these players get chemistry going into next season together it will be a great force to reckon with.... think about it, once JC knows he has time and can rely on his line we will have a prolific offense.

I dont think you understood my point.

 

[Newc]

Thats a good article.

Let me say this, look at ASU's offense with coach erickson. You get in the shotgun with 4 receivers, and you wing it. You throw to the open man. It's easy, its basic and it's unstoppable. When you play a better team you may lose, like asu losing to oregon.

But look at notre dame's offense. it's complex, it's difficult and if you dont have experienced guys running the show, it absolutely sucks. I know the nfl offense is a selling point to recruits, but maybe weis should have changed it up, rather than dumbing it down. now all we have is a dumb offense.

Thats a really good point Kamara. With all the talent we have coming in, line our boys up against theirs and let the talent lead to the wins.

I really think that Charlie thought that with the young guys and the inexpierence that we have he had to create a scheme that would allow us to beat more talented and more experienced teams. However that obviously backfired as the offense has just sputtered all season.

 

[wahoo]

Still a Weis guy - NCAA Football - Yahoo! Sports

The article speaks well of CW's recruiting...and he has done an excellent job in that arena. The problem that I have is we haven't seen a lot of results. Other major college programs are playing young players and they are getting results where it matters...ON THE FIELD!

 

[johnnd05]

The article speaks well of CW's recruiting...and he has done an excellent job in that arena. The problem that I have is we haven't seen a lot of results. Other major college programs are playing young players and they are getting results where it matters...ON THE FIELD!

*chugs the Kool-Aid*

Ahh, come on - are you saying that Allen, Aldridge, Kamara, Parris, Tate, Smith, Neal, and Walls haven't shown you enough to get you at least a BIT excited? And what about Young, Wenger, Olsen, Yeatman, Ragone, Hughes, and Ian Williams, not to mention Jimmy Clausen?

I agree that the /results/ haven't really been there, and Weis deserves a lot of flack for that. Nor have we seen the kinds of dynamic performances we hoped for, at least not with any consistency - and once again we can criticize Weis for this. But CLEARLY there's reason to be optimistic about what these players are going to do as they mature.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

The kids are alright. CW just needs to focus on the essentials next year.

 

[wahoo]

*chugs the Kool-Aid*

Ahh, come on - are you saying that Allen, Aldridge, Kamara, Parris, Tate, Smith, Neal, and Walls haven't shown you enough to get you at least a BIT excited? And what about Young, Wenger, Olsen, Yeatman, Ragone, Hughes, and Ian Williams, not to mention Jimmy Clausen?

I agree that the /results/ haven't really been there, and Weis deserves a lot of flack for that. Nor have we seen the kinds of dynamic performances we hoped for, at least not with any consistency - and once again we can criticize Weis for this. But CLEARLY there's reason to be optimistic about what these players are going to do as they mature.

My problem has been the total lack of consistancy. The good spurts have been just too few. Other programs have had turnover too but I don't see them going down in the dumps as low as we have. For example,look at what Stanford did to U$C. Then we play U$C and think we may have had more penalties then first downs! With the schedule we had I knew that we would struggle this year. I am concerned that we aren't getting better.

It is my hope that the Irish will rise up again, I will always root for the Irish....I am just wondering if CW is the right coach to take this team back to the top

 

[marv81s]

what programs are you talking about that are playing and relying on their freshman and/or sophomores as much as ND has had to do this year? Especially at the skilled positions, ALL of the skilled positions, and have had to learn a whole new defensive scheme, and your throwing the #1 ranked most difficult schedule to a group of young kids who are seeing playing time for the first time this year, here go get 'em boys.

Let's not forget that if DD had stuck around Sharpley would have been a 3rd sting QB, and we are seeing why that is lately haven't we?

Some of you are expecting way too much out of the younger guys just because they had a bunch of stars after their names by the recruiting services. I think we have confirmed that Weis made errors in his preparation for this season, don't know how many times he has to admit it himself before we beat it to death, but we as fans should also realize that there is a some other factors that went into this murdurous 1-8 record.

There are no teams in the top 25, 50 that have had to rely on their youngsters the way ND has had to. Even the less talented ones that are enjoying success this year don't have to play the shitty ass schedule that ND had to play the first 8 games. That goes for Kansas, Missouri, OSU, WV etc.

 

[Timugen]

Some of you are expecting way too much out of the younger guys just because they had a bunch of stars after their names by the recruiting services.

In fairness, I don't think anyone is expecting them to be a bunch of world-beaters - it would just be nice to see a team that actually looked like it belonged in Div-I football. The sad fact is that I think this has more to do with the staff than the players.

 

[wahoo]

what programs are you talking about that are playing and relying on their freshman and/or sophomores as much as ND has had to do this year? Especially at the skilled positions, ALL of the skilled positions, and have had to learn a whole new defensive scheme, and your throwing the #1 ranked most difficult schedule to a group of young kids who are seeing playing time for the first time this year, here go get 'em boys.

.

Just a few examples....Ohio State lost almost their entire defense from last year ....they are among the best in the country defensively.On offense they lost their QB and top running back plus their top two wideouts.
Florida is playing many sophomores(Tebow is a sophomore for example) and they are winning games playing in what is probably the toughest in the country.
Georgia has I think 2 freshman and one sophomore playing on the offensive line and they are holding their own and winning some games.

I just feel that the Irish have badly unachieved this year. I know the schedule was a tough one but the team has not improved and I think the coaching staff has to be held accountable

 

[wahoo]

In fairness, I don't think anyone is expecting them to be a bunch of world-beaters - it would just be nice to see a team that actually looked like it belonged in Div-I football. The sad fact is that I think this has more to do with the staff than the players.

I agree with your assessment 100%