Another thread about the game and Charlie (long)

MeanGreen

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I have all the respect for Navy and Johnson, they are the class of the service academy's, but their action speak volumes. When was the last time you saw a team jump for joy after beating a 1-7 team? Yes Navy has had the streak shoved down their throat for 43 years, but it was not like the knocked us out of the NC. People want to beat us and gear up for us not matter what our record. History shows this, we all remember the Miami games of the early 80's and them running up the score because it was us and they could. What our players have to learn is that everyone is gunning for you when you put on that ND uniform and no one is going to lay down. Also, I hate to criticize players, but another thing they have to learn is give it your all every play, every game. Navy was undersized at every position and we had a talent advantage, but whether their coaches instill it in them or it is part of their character, they never gave up and kept up their intensity for every play. They got to rest after the game, from 2:30 until 7:00 they laid it on the line to win that game and every game. We should be proud of those players wearing the Navy uniform, they will great representatives and leaders of this country in the future. Our players should learn how to play the game from them. If the streak had to end, this is the perfect year for it to end. We are down, nothing is on the line and it probably will help Navy more than it will hurt us. It hopefully is the rock bottom this team will face for a long time. The only way to go is up from now on.

As far as Charlie is concerned, I think some of us might be jumping to conclusions here. He had a great two years, but he also had talent and experience. Looking back at this season, I think the lack in experience hurt more than the lack in talent. I say that because I believe there is talent there. When people start to blame and criticize CW I pull out the comparisons to him with Joe Torre, Pete Carroll, and Jim Leyland. All of these coaches are successful, winning multiple championships over the past 5 - 10 years. However, they also have failed miserably at times in their career. When you look at their failures they either had no talent or young inexperienced talent. Torre had very little talent with the Mets, Card, and Braves. Carroll's Jets had no talent and NE young talent. Leyland had the young and inexperienced mid 80's Pirate teams, that blossomed into contenders in the early 90's. I think it is just to difficult for sophomores and freshman to play significant roles on a team with no senior or junior leadership. Other teams do have freshman playing a contributing, but we are asking these players to lead us to victory every week and I think that might be to hard. Remember Duncan, Turkovich and Olsen aren't giving someone a breather, they are it for that position. These players are adjusting to college, to the speed of the game, and everything else that goes into being a student athlete at ND. I believe not only in Charlie, but the players on this team. I think they will use this season as their inspiration, not to let it get this bad again. The numbers will be up, I think we are playing with something like 76 scholarship players. The talent will be better and I am sure Charlie has learned a thing or two this year.
 

wahoo

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I believe not only in Charlie, but the players on this team. I think they will use this season as their inspiration, not to let it get this bad again. The numbers will be up, I think we are playing with something like 76 scholarship players. The talent will be better and I am sure Charlie has learned a thing or two this year.

I used to believe in CW but after this year I am having some serious doubts. The main problem that I have is the total lack of progress shown by the team. They don't look a whole lot better since the 1st game. A good coach will right a sinking ship(look at what Carr has done w the Skunkbears after the 1st two games). I don't see a whole lot of improvement....and I think the coaching staff needs to be held accountable. Plus I really wonder about Charlie's commitment to building a strong defense. I have yet to see a "lights-out" defensive effort since Charlie took over the program. (UCLA doesn't count....they had to play their 3rd striing QB most of the game).
As I have said before, I would have Charlie on a very short leash next year and if there isn't great improvement I would consider making a change
 

johnnd05

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I used to believe in CW but after this year I am having some serious doubts. The main problem that I have is the total lack of progress shown by the team. They don't look a whole lot better since the 1st game. A good coach will right a sinking ship(look at what Carr has done w the Skunkbears after the 1st two games). I don't see a whole lot of improvement....and I think the coaching staff needs to be held accountable. Plus I really wonder about Charlie's commitment to building a strong defense. I have yet to see a "lights-out" defensive effort since Charlie took over the program. (UCLA doesn't count....they had to play their 3rd striing QB most of the game).
As I have said before, I would have Charlie on a very short leash next year and if there isn't great improvement I would consider making a change

Seems generous to me. I really don't think they look ANY better. I see no reason to think the team couldn't have done that very same thing in the first week of the season.
 

Ant4NDIrish

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If you had Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, and Tim Brown you would still be 1-8 with the offensive line we have. You win ballgames up front. I agree he has made some questionable calls but we are 1-8. We will be OK. We could lose our last three games it would be no surprise to me. We cannot dominate up front so we might lose the rest of our games. In 2 years if ND has not improved then I think people may have a reason to question the coaching. Go IRISH!!!!!
 

johnnd05

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If you had Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice, and Tim Brown you would still be 1-8 with the offensive line we have. You win ballgames up front. I agree he has made some questionable calls but we are 1-8. We will be OK. We could lose our last three games it would be no surprise to me. We cannot dominate up front so we might lose the rest of our games. In 2 years if ND has not improved then I think people may have a reason to question the coaching. Go IRISH!!!!!

Maybe that's true, but once again it's NOT about the record; it's about the WAY THE TEAM HAS PLAYED. They had every POSSIBLE opportunity to be dominant up front (and in back, and around the sides) against Navy, and failed to do that. No matter what you say, that's about coaching, first and foremost.
 
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