Taking Stock (in three parts)

johnnd05

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(Via the Roundup.)

Taking Stock, Part I: 19 reasons why Notre Dame’s offense has sucked so badly in 2007 <!-- by John -->

I don’t know about you, but it feels like the middle of the season to me: Fall Break and the bye week are behind us, the complexion of the schedule has changed dramatically, and we’ve hit what can only be described as rock bottom after the Loss that Shall Not Be Discussed. So it’s in this spirit that the Irish Roundup brings you “Taking Stock,” a three-part series (wow, doesn’t that sound fancy?) evaluating the 2007 season up to this point and looking ahead to its remainder.

Up first, a detailed evaluation of why the Notre Dame offense has been so dreadful this year. We all know the statistics, so I’m not even going to bother listing them again: the question I’m going focus on here is “Why?” rather than “How bad?” Here are what I - with the invaluable help of the rest of the IrishEnvy crew - take to be the nineteen biggest problems, in inverse order of importance:

19) Too much hype: No doubt Charlie Weis did the right thing by refusing to throw his players under the bus by calling 2007 a “rebuilding” year, but did we all have to believe him? Nearly all ND fans had the Irish winning at least three of these first eight games – a clearly unreasonable expectation. The team’s current 1-7 record would be completely satisfactory if they’d played hard, scrappy football and shown improvement from week to week, but the burden of everyone’s high hopes can’t have been a help in making that happen.

18) Scheduling: A calendar front-loaded with top-notch opponents, with all of the easy games at the end of the year. Four of the first six games played on the road. A bye week after USC (though having extra time to prepare for Navy never hurts). No doubt it’s difficult to put together ND’s schedule, but this year’s version was just atrocious.

17) Recruiting: Many are going to wonder why this isn’t higher on the list. The reason for that is that the talent gap between the Irish and their opponents doesn’t even begin to account for the awfulness of their offensive (ha!) game. No doubt the paucity of upperclass talent feeds into many of the more serious problems in a major way, but in itself it’s only the tip of a very large iceberg.

16) Too much shuffling of the depth chart: I’ve already been over this in some detail, and I still stand by the analysis I gave there, namely that while many of these shifts have been due to injuries or other unpredictable things, some – in particular taking so long to settle on James Aldridge as the #1 tailback, and even then giving too many carries to other players – were clearly mistakes.

15) Distractions: The obvious example of this is Demetrius Jones not showing up for the team bus to Michigan, after which the Irish played what was clearly their worst, and least-inspired, game of the season. But there have been other cases as well, such as Derrell Hand’s arrest, the ongoing quarterback controversy, the departures of Konrad Reuland and Matt Carufel, the rumors of dissension among Irish players, and so on. These are not the sorts of things that help a young team get over their struggles.

14) Penalties: Obviously there are some – Mike Turkovich’s touchdown-negating hold against BC, for one – that stick in the forefront of your mind, but the fact is that false starts, holding calls, and other offensive penalties have been a huge problem all year long, regularly putting the offense in a position where it has to pick up huge yardage to move the chains. Thankfully there were far fewer such mistakes against USC, so maybe that’s the beginning of a trend.

13) Injuries: Aldridge, David Grimes, Matt Romine, and Dan Wenger have all missed significant time with injuries, and Jimmy Clausen and Golden Tate have been banged up as well. For a team as thin as this one is, having front-line players like these get injured is obviously a big problem, and keeps the squad from developing a consistent rhythm.

12) Play-calling: Once again, this is a factor that a lot of people are going to want to put a lot higher, though see my lengthy post from after the BC game for why I thought that in that case at least, this issue was WAY overblown. There’s no doubt, though, that there have been some huge mistakes made in this department: the obvious examples are the crazy schemes employed at the starts of the games against Georgia Tech and Michigan, though there are others as well. This team has to do more than just develop its “bread and butter” plays in practice; it has to run them on the field as well. Of course, that’s hard to do when players consistently fail to execute the plays you’ve called.

11) Inexperience: You could try to lump this in with recruiting, but it’s really a different issue, since it’s meant to pick out the fact that many of even the more “veteran” players – Turkovich, Paul Duncan, Evan Sharpley – saw very little playing time before this year, and so aren’t able to do as much as one would hope to bring the younger players along. I’ve been told that last year, Bob Morton and the other offensive linemen were telling Sam Young what to do on almost every play – this year, there’s only one lineman with more than one year of experience other his belt.

10) A rift within the team itself: I’m putting this right in the middle of the list only because I obviously don’t know if the various rumors that have swirled around are true. But the fact is that there have been some pretty clear signs – both on the field and off – that this squad hasn’t really come together well. Some of this is natural, as younger players and veterans compete for playing time, but if it’s as bad as some have said it is, then its ramifications may be extensive indeed.

9) Lack of leadership: This isn’t just about the veterans; underclassmen can be leaders as well. Some of this is the result of the “musical chairs” that has been played with the depth chart, whether due to injuries, poor personnel decisions, or surprising performances by players (whether of the good variety or the bad). No matter what the cause, though, not having players who can bring everyone together in the huddle or on the sidelines and focus their energies on the task at hand is going to be a huge problem for any team.

8) Failure to execute the “finesse” plays: What I have in mind here are the dropped passes or missed receivers that we’ve seen so often this year. In countless cases, a player has been open and either the ball has gotten there and he’s failed to catch it, or the ball has been thrown over his head or at his feet. Mistakes like this stall an offense like nothing else, except perhaps for …

7, 6) Poor pass- and run-blocking: I can’t figure out which of these to put first, since each feeds into the other in countless ways. But it’s important to emphasize that the problems here haven’t just been with the offensive line: whether it’s tailbacks whiffing or getting run over on pass protection, fullbacks failing to open up holes in the running game, or wide receivers missing blocks downfield, there’s no getting around the fact that the blocking on this team has been atrocious at every level.

5) Lousy position coaching: When you have a team composed almost solely of either young players recently out of high school and “veterans” who’ve barely played a down, what you need is a group of assistant coaches able to teach them the proverbial fundamentals. So far this year, there’s been little evidence that that’s happened, and the lack of week-to-week progress suggests significant deficiencies in the sort of training these players are receiving.

4) Practice routines: The influence that having had contact-free practices for so much of the season and pre-season has had on this team probably can’t be overstated: once again, many of these players are new to college football, and they just don’t know what real “game speed” looks (and feels) like. But there have been other problems as well: to give just one example, there is no doubt that the decision to develop overly creative plays rather than taking a “building-blocks” approach did a great deal to set this team back and prevent real progress in the early weeks.

3) Tentative play: The USC game was a paradigm of the tendency among offensive players to look like they’re more concerned with avoiding mistakes than with doing something right. Whether it’s the overly-complicated character of the offense they’re running, the shock of game speed, the burden of high expectations and the consequent fear of criticism, or whatever, there’s no doubt that many of this offense’s failures – dropped passes, missed blocks, inability to hit holes in the running game, and so on – can be attributed to an all-around tentativeness.

2) The “snowball” effect: With the exception of the post-halftime spurts against Purdue and BC, one steady tendency for this team has been that when things go bad, they get worse. The offense has shown very little resiliency, whether to their own mistakes or to those of the defense and special teams, and we’ve often seen the proverbial wheels fall off at the first sign of difficulty (the Michigan State game was the paradigm instance of this). Once again, this can be traced to many of the other problems above, but it’s clearly a place where this team’s many defects have often come to a head.

1) Charlie Weis: Sorry coach, but the buck stops with you. I’m going to have more to say about this in a post tomorrow, but for now just let me say that I think Weis has done a simply terrible job coaching this squad, and while I don’t think this one season is sufficient to show that he’s the “worst coach in the universe,” I also don’t think that the old “learning curve” excuse is good enough. In my mind, there’s reason to think that Weis is a good-to-great coach for seasoned veterans, and an outright terrible one for young players. If this is right, then the key question is whether he can transition this group from the latter category to the former without doing irreparable harm to them – I’ll have much more to say about this tomorrow and Thursday in Parts II and III of this series.
 

johnnd05

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Taking Stock, Part II: Identity crisis

<small><!-- by John --></small> (This is Part 2 in a series of three posts evaluating the first eight weeks of the season and looking forward to what’s ahead. Part 1, “19 reasons why Notre Dame’s offense has sucked so badly in 2007,” is available here.)

Will the real Charlie Weis please stand up?

In the span of a mere three years, the head coach of the Fighting Irish has gone from an unknown quantity with a whole lot of jewelry on his fingers, to the savior of a program that had been mired in a decade of mediocrity, to a clever schemer with a penchant for running up the score on service academies who couldn’t win the big game, to an inept loser arrogantly presiding over the downfall of his alma mater’s proudest athletic program. The following numbers might be able to give some sense of the reasons for this transition:

<iframe src="http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxGUTlbeQLEMnYWkPBfjtFw&output=html&gid=0&single=true&range=a1:d4" frameborder="0" height="100" width="450"></iframe>
Put another way, for those of you who prefer graphical representations to hard statistics:

offensivenumbers-1.jpg

And again, if you’d really just rather have it summed up in a picture:
Kamenitsa%20plane%20crash.jpg

Nope, there’s no way to get around it: the 2007 version of the Fighting Weises has been bad - really bad, especially on the offensive end. And I argued yesterday that none of the eighteen other explanations we might give of this team’s struggles can carry as much weight as the one that starts and ends with the head coach himself. In case my argument wasn’t good enough for you, though, here’s Weis saying pretty much the same thing in his Tuesday press conference:
Q. For those of us who haven’t followed Notre Dame football as closely as those people who cover it on a regular basis or are fans, could you kind of just quickly summarize what you feel has happened this year? Is it simply a case of being hit hard by graduation and the younger players who have been asked to fill in just haven’t performed or were not ready or the inexperience? In your overall big picture analysis, what’s led to 1 and 7?

COACH WEIS: Well, that’s a loaded question. (laughter) Well, first of all, let’s start with coaching, because what you just did in your question is gave me about 15 different excuses for us being 1 and 7, so why don’t we just start with I probably, with the transition that we’ve had from last year to this year, have not done the best job of having the team ready to go on a week in and week out basis, and we probably should leave it at that one because if you are looking for me to give you a whole dossier of problems that have happened this year, there would be too many things. If you want good fodder, let’s just throw me out there, okay.

Q. But in general, though, the fact that you have such an inexperienced team is a crucial factor…

COACH WEIS: It’s a factor, but that’s what it is. It’s a factor. It’s not the factor. There’s a lot of things that come — I think when you do that — once again, it would be easy for me to sit there and say, well, if these five things weren’t the case we’d be 7 and 1 right now. Well, the problem is they are the case. I started with what I felt was the number one reason, and I think that if you start with the head coach doing a better job, then you’d probably have a better record.
Now, all of this raises a natural question: which Weis is the real Weis? The one whose team had nineteen wins, many of them in blowout fashion, in 2005 and 2006, going to two straight BCS bowls and re-writing the offensive record books in the process, or the one who’s the head coach of a bowl-ineligible team that’s currently 1-7 and on pace to re-write those record books in quite a different way?

The primary schools of though on this question break down into two major groups:
  • The Dr. Jekyll Theory: Charlie Weis is an offensive genius and a brilliant head coach who’s simply been crippled by an undertalented and inexperienced roster this year. Sure, he’s made some mistakes in the way he’s done things - e.g. by not having enough full-contact practices, or doing too much scheming instead of taking a more piecemeal approach - but on the whole there aren’t any problems he can’t fix. We just need to be patient with him, and give him a chance to get his players on the field.
  • The Mr. Hyde Theory: Charlie Weis is the worst coach in the universe. He’s too fat, too stupid, too stubborn, and too ugly. He rode the coattails of Tom Brady while he was with the Patriots, and did the same with Brady Quinn and the rest of Tyrone Willingham’s recruits in his first two years at Notre Dame. Now, without a bunch of stars to carry him along, his true ineptitude is being exposed.
The argument I want to make here is that Charlie Weis is actually both of these characters at once: he’s Dr. Jekyll AND Mr. Hyde, the creative genius AND the over-scheming fool, the coach who squeezes the most out of his veteran players AND the man lucky enough to ride his star talent to victory. In other words, what we’ve seen in 2007 is just the other side of the coin from the previous two years.
Here’s why I say this. In the first place, I think the advocates of the “Mr. Hyde” theory are right to insist that the deficiency’s in Weis’s coaching this year have gone far beyond problems of the “learning curve” variety: for example, while there’s no doubt that Weis was speaking truly when he said that he’s never been part of a team that practiced full-speed during the season, it’s also the case that he has a number of assistants on his team who presumably have seen that done, as well as other college coaches he knows who can tell him how they practice with their own squads. And even as Weis has begun to alter the way he runs practices, the reports I’ve seen indicate that the changes have been less than wholesale (with the possible exception of the “back to training camp” week following the Michigan game).

Similarly, consider the case of game-by-game adjustments in the offensive schemes. There’s no doubt that doing this was a big part of what made Weis successful in the NFL and in his first two seasons with the Irish. But there’s also no doubt that it’s been a big part of what’s kept this offense from generating any consistent production. The key thing, though, is that this sort of constant tinkering is just a part of who Weis is: if he doesn’t do it, he simply isn’t going to be successful; but when he does do it, it’s sometimes going to blow up in his face.

In other words, both of these examples - and I think there are many, many others - suggest that the aspects of Weis’s coaching style that have doomed the 2007 squad aren’t just accidental traits of a coach trying to figure out the college game. Rather, they’re just parts of what make him Charlie Weis, as opposed to Tyrone Willingham, Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, or Pete Carroll. And so on reflection, it really shouldn’t be surprising that with Weis at the head, this particular Irish team has performed so poorly. He simply isn’t the right coach to make this group look even mildly respectable against teams like the ones they’ve played so far.

But on the other hand … there’s NO reason not to think this that VERY SAME coaching style was a HUGE part of Notre Dame’s success in 2005 and 2006. Given a (relatively) experienced group of savvy veterans, a quarterback who soaked up the playbook like a sponge and practically had to be dragged from the practice field when it was time for his backup to take some snaps, a versatile tailback and a group of wide receivers who together were proficient at every aspect of the game (rushing, blocking, route-running, pass-catching, blitz-pickup, and so on), an experienced offensive line with the ability to make game-by-game adjustments, and so on, Weis was able to put together an offensive attack that had his team in national championship contention for two straight years. Chalking that up solely to dumb luck, or even to the undeniable greatness of Brady Quinn & Co., smacks of the sort of myopia that one expects only from a delusional Michigan alum.

In other words: my proposal is that it’s just a fact about Charlie Weis’s talents and coaching style that, given an experienced group of talented veterans, he can put together a dynamic offense with a chance to win a national championship. At the same time, though, its a fact about those very same talents and that very same coaching style that they don’t work well at getting a bunch of scrappy youngsters consistently to piece together any semblance of an offensive attack. It’s a both/and, not an either/or.
What this means, though, is that the biggest challenge facing Charlie Weis isn’t necessarily that of “learning how to be a college coach”: he’s already given ample evidence that he can do a damn good job of that, given the right players. And note once again that by “right players” I don’t mean “superstars all around”: with the exception of the quarterback position, Notre Dame never had the level of talent on offense in 2005 and 2006 that teams like USC and Michigan had. The crucial task, in other words, is that of transforming Jimmy Clausen, James Aldridge, Armando Allen, Robert Hughes, Duval Kamara, Robby Parris, Golden Tate, Will Yeatman, Mike Ragone, Dan Wenger, Sam Young, Matt Romine, Eric Olsen, and the rest into the kinds of players that Quinn, Darius Walker, Jeff Samardzija, Maurice Stovall, Rhema McKnight, John Carlson, Anthony Fasano, Mark LeVoir, Dan Santucci, Ryan Harris, Bob Morton, and John Sullivan were in 2005 and 2006: not just a bunch of players with enough talent to win a lot of games, but a group of hard-working players who showed up ready to go each week, were competent enough to do what he asked them to do, and - by and large, anyway - responded well to Weis’s coaching style. Given that, there’s every reason to think that Weis can once again make the Irish a team to be feared.

The question is, how do we get from here to there? It’s not just about allowing players to mature physically, drilling the playbook into them, or even teaching them the proverbial fundamentals. Rather, I think the key question is whether Weis can get these young players to keep their heads in the game, to continue working hard - on Saturday afternoons as well as on the practice field, in the weight room, in film study, and so on, both through the remainder of this season and through the offseason that will follow it. And the difficulty is that with the way the first eight games of 2007 have gone, the possibility of having players get discouraged and just give up is a real one.

But that’s a topic for tomorrow’s post …
 

piyachi

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Great stuff John. I like the Jekyll and Hyde analogy - I agree that it really seems to work well. The one thing I would add in there that isn't present is his tendency to gamble. The offensive scheme with DJ was a gamble, one that blew up in his face. Sometimes when you try to bluff with a pair of fours, you get called on it.

I hope we see the good side of things next year, and that bad-charlie dissapears forever.
 

johnnd05

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Great stuff John. I like the Jekyll and Hyde analogy - I agree that it really seems to work well. The one thing I would add in there that isn't present is his tendency to gamble. The offensive scheme with DJ was a gamble, one that blew up in his face. Sometimes when you try to bluff with a pair of fours, you get called on it.

I hope we see the good side of things next year, and that bad-charlie dissapears forever.

Thanks Piyachi. You're definitely right about the gambling tendencies being another example of the split personality/double-edged sword. I think "Bad Charlie" will be gone to the extent that he has the right kind of players on the field ... thing is, we have no reason to expect another team with the make-up of this one for a loooooong time.
 

SoCalDomer

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It seems to me that if Weis has a flaw in his coaching style, he would be wise (no pun intended) to seek assistance from other college coaches who were more adept at building up young players. He wouldn't even need to go outside the Notre Dame program.

One area where our school differs from most is the love that past coaches had/still have for Notre Dame. If he got on the phone to Holtz and Parseghian and asked them to give him advice on coaching up the young guys, or the differences between pro vs college, or simply asked for what they thought he was doing wrong, they would no doubt help. Maybe he's already done that, I don't know.
 

JeremyND07

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It seems to me that if Weis has a flaw in his coaching style, he would be wise (no pun intended) to seek assistance from other college coaches who were more adept at building up young players. He wouldn't even need to go outside the Notre Dame program.

One area where our school differs from most is the love that past coaches had/still have for Notre Dame. If he got on the phone to Holtz and Parseghian and asked them to give him advice on coaching up the young guys, or the differences between pro vs college, or simply asked for what they thought he was doing wrong, they would no doubt help. Maybe he's already done that, I don't know.

Are you kidding me? With his ego this will NEVER happen!!!! He is a smart guy...I think he will get the hang of it! I think Corwin already has it down. We just need a GOOD college OL coach with experience!!!!
 

SoCalDomer

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Are you kidding me? With his ego this will NEVER happen!!!! He is a smart guy...I think he will get the hang of it! I think Corwin already has it down. We just need a GOOD college OL coach with experience!!!!

Maybe his ego would prevent him from doing so. But then it's his ego that caused this atrocious play to start this season. The future will tell whether he is able to learn it on his own. But the fact that he has not gone wholesale into full-out, hard hitting practices tells me he is tentatively buying into the differences need to succeed at the college level.

Hopefully he does learn his way. I think he would have learned alot faster if he let go of his pride long enough to get help.
 

johnnd05

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Are you kidding me? With his ego this will NEVER happen!!!! He is a smart guy...I think he will get the hang of it! I think Corwin already has it down. We just need a GOOD college OL coach with experience!!!!

I don't know why you say that about his ego. He's been very frank about having made mistakes this year and needing to change things to succeed in the future. The myth of Weis as an egomaniac is pretty damned unfounded if you ask me ...
 

johnnd05

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It seems to me that if Weis has a flaw in his coaching style, he would be wise (no pun intended) to seek assistance from other college coaches who were more adept at building up young players. He wouldn't even need to go outside the Notre Dame program.

One area where our school differs from most is the love that past coaches had/still have for Notre Dame. If he got on the phone to Holtz and Parseghian and asked them to give him advice on coaching up the young guys, or the differences between pro vs college, or simply asked for what they thought he was doing wrong, they would no doubt help. Maybe he's already done that, I don't know.

A couple of quick points.

First off, while I think what you say is reasonable, it's in a way in tension with what I was arguing, since my point there was actually that Weis DOES know how to coach a college team: what is clearly a "flaw in his coaching style" when it comes to coaching a team like this one is at the same time a huge benefit when he's dealing with veterans. And the thing is, there's no reason to think that he'll have a team like this one ever again.

Secondly, though I definitely think that getting advice from other coaches is a good idea, I don't think that Holtz and Parseghian are the ones to go to, since they're pretty far removed from coaching the "kids of today".

Finally, the issue of whether Weis can DEVELOP players is one that my post really didn't deal with, and you're right to bring it up. But to be honest, that issue is really one that I'm not concerned about: I think he definitely can teach these guys the physical skills they need; the real question for me is whether they'll become the kind of players they need to be on the "mental" side to make his coaching style work.
 

piyachi

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Also he does already talk to former coaches - Ara is apparently a frequent consultant.
 
M

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Great read John...kudos!
In the back of my mind, and maybe because I spend too much time drinking the recruiting kool-aid or maybe because I refuse to believe the ND program is dead and buried forever, I still envision Weis being capable of nothing less than Devine and POSSIBLY stepping into the Ara/Lou stratosphere...

He HAS shown an ability to win and to beat the teams he SHOULD beat in 2005 and 2006. There are literally thousands of words and explanations for this year that have been exhausted already...but the true measure of Weis won't be known until next year...

Is this team capable of finishing strong? Winning the last 4 games and making Charlie's worst season to date no worse really than a pair of the Boob's efforts or Ty's last 2 seasons? I have to believe they are capable of beating these remaining opponents; and that starting on Saturday, the "new" Notre Dame - that of Charlie Weis and freed forever of the legacy of Davie-ham - will take the field at last. This 4-game stretch, against teams that are traditionally Irish win-fodder, will be nothing more or less than the equivalent of an NFL pre-season hopefully feeding the team momentum for the off-season and next year.

Sure the order of the losses is fun to look at for haters, and to say that ND has lost 9 of 10 and been blown out a lot...that comes with the territory though, if rock-bottom were an easy place to be, then no one would ever fight to get out! (and I believe Weis is nothing if not a fighter). For example last years' 44-24 loss to USC could have been a 37-24 loss (maybe cosmetically closer, but a loss none-the-less) if we had elected to just accept defeat and kick long instead of going for the onside kick that was returned for a TD. Weis has shown time and again (and stated) that margin of defeat is not important to him - hence a game that is going badly will more often turn into a stirring comeback (UCLA 2006 / MSU 2006 and 2005 really, even though it was lost in OT) or a resounding drubbing (take your pick from the rest really).

Margin of defeat is more troubling this year, but that same philosophy drives it to a degree. Only the 38-0 twins to scUM and USC give me the most heartburn - because those games were plain and simple ass whippings by competitive peers; and those can't be glossed over by philosophy, or by simply trying to do everything possible to get back into a game. ND was NEVER in either of those games and it was apparent from the start in each...the reasons for this calamity are legion, but it is so reminiscent of 2003 as to be scary.

In 2003, we suffered similar drubbings at the hands of USC, scUM and FSU. The trouble was that nothing seemed to be happening to correct it at all. Offensive changes? Nope. Coaching changes? Nope. Recruiting efforts stepped up? Nope. I think too many people are using THAT outdated lens and experience to judge THIS current situation. The last time we found ourselves on this ledge, it was a lot easier to see nothing but abyss ahead. There were NO positives at all. I don't believe this time is the same, though I see a lot of similarity in the reactions of the fanbase - well maybe just the vocal minority who want to can Weis now...

There is a lot of weakness in Weis so far as head coach...but the most important thing that I have observed is that he has a) identified it as his responsibility, b) refused to scape-goat his players or the standards of the university as an excuse for any of the shortcomings (something that neither of his predecessors could say in tough times) and c) committed his prodigious work ethic to rectifying the short-comings - whether through redoubling recruiting efforts or through changing his style and habits to mold a better football product in the future. There are many things wrong with Weis' performance, but staying static and refusing to adjust is not among them.

I think the combination of previous success - at the pro AND college levels, a known work ethic and commitment to winning, a known love of the university and its football program and an influx of talent not seen at ND in at least 10 years (and really closer to 15) is sufficient to have some faith in the Devine prediction.... as for Holtz or Era-like success...well maybe that IS the kool-aid talking still...
 

SoCalDomer

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First off, while I think what you say is reasonable, it's in a way in tension with what I was arguing, since my point there was actually that Weis DOES know how to coach a college team: what is clearly a "flaw in his coaching style" when it comes to coaching a team like this one is at the same time a huge benefit when he's dealing with veterans. And the thing is, there's no reason to think that he'll have a team like this one ever again.

I agree with you in part. I agree we most likely won't have a team where the talent is young, inexperienced and lowerclass heavy. Nor do I think we will likely have so few numbers in the upperclasses. But, having numbers and talent in the upperclass won't be enough if he can't develop the young talent into talented veterans. Every year he is going to have new, raw young talent that will need to be developed. Just because he will have more numbers in the upperclass and won't have to rely on frosh's and soph's as much doesn't mean that the incoming frosh's and soph's will be developed veterans by the time they are juniors and seniors. He will never exceed the success of 05-06 if he can't do that. I hope he can.

Secondly, though I definitely think that getting advice from other coaches is a good idea, I don't think that Holtz and Parseghian are the ones to go to, since they're pretty far removed from coaching the "kids of today".

I agree Parseghian is removed time wise, but Holtz is still very much involved in college football. And he just left coaching 3-5 yrs ago? He obviously still had it when he turned 0-11 South Carolina around to a winning program by his 3rd year there. But I don't think it's a matter of teaching Weis how to relate to the players as much as it is teaching him the differences between college and pro, and what is needed to develop the players. Relating to the young players is actually something I think he does very well. If he wasn't able to relate to the young guys, i don't think he'd have as much success in recruiting.

My only reason for saying those two names is because 1) I know they love Notre Dame and would be willing to help. 2) they wouldn't do it in a way that might embarrass him. 3) they wouldn't go public with the fact he came for help, whereas someone unrelated to ND might, which could embarrass him.
 

quiksilver253

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see i really dont agree with you. All of charlies players seem to love him even though hes an in your face type of guy. Say what you want about him but it works. Every problem this year could be traced right back to the offensive line.

Inability to run the ball:
Line create no creases AT ALL thus leaving our RB's on their own.

Lack of a Passing Game:
THe Qb's rarely have enought time to hand off the ball let alone throw downfield

Defensive Breakdowns Late IN GAmes:
Lopsided time on the field, defense is on for what seems like the whole game so they get tired. Because the offensive line cant do shit, the defense must try to make up for them

I dont know why everyone is up charlie's ass. How do you expect the man to put together a gameplan when he doesnt know wtf his line is going to do or which team is going to show up. He is in an imppossile position.

THis one falls purely on the offensive line coach for doing a terrible job, and tyrone willingham for having 2 shitty recruiting classes leading to the lack of leadershi on this team..


P.S. pardon my french :)
 

johnnd05

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see i really dont agree with you. All of charlies players seem to love him even though hes an in your face type of guy. Say what you want about him but it works. Every problem this year could be traced right back to the offensive line.

Inability to run the ball:
Line create no creases AT ALL thus leaving our RB's on their own.

Lack of a Passing Game:
THe Qb's rarely have enought time to hand off the ball let alone throw downfield

Defensive Breakdowns Late IN GAmes:
Lopsided time on the field, defense is on for what seems like the whole game so they get tired. Because the offensive line cant do shit, the defense must try to make up for them

I dont know why everyone is up charlie's ass. How do you expect the man to put together a gameplan when he doesnt know wtf his line is going to do or which team is going to show up. He is in an imppossile position.

THis one falls purely on the offensive line coach for doing a terrible job, and tyrone willingham for having 2 shitty recruiting classes leading to the lack of leadershi on this team..


P.S. pardon my french :)

I don't see why you think I was "up [his] ass" in what I said.

In the first place, it's not as if Weis gets a free pass for the fact that the offensive line has been so bad: it's ultimately HIS job to teach players to perform, and HIS job to call plays that they can execute.

Secondly, I think it's just not true that the o-line has been at the source of all of the team's problems. They're not the ones who are missing easy throws or dropping easy catches; they're not the ones who are running too tentatively to hit the (admittedly few) holes that are opened up for them, or to break tackles or run over defenders when they get a chance; they're not the ones who have put the ball on the carpet with stunning regularity or thrown numerous bad interceptions; they're not the ONLY ones screwing up on blitz pick-up; and so on and so on. I definitely agree with you that the play of the offensive line has been the biggest on-the-field problem, but it's far from the ONLY thing that's at the root of this team's troubles.

Thirdly, even if it is true that "all of [his] players love him", obviously that's not enough. They need to execute the tasks he sets for them to do, and the fact is that they've regularly failed to do that. That this is partly Weis's fault - both because he's asked them to do unreasonable things, and because he and his staff haven't done a good enough job of teaching them - is something nobody should deny.

Fourthly, you ask "How do you expect the man to put together a gameplan when he doesnt know wtf his line is going to do or which team is going to show up." Well, I think the answer is that he ought to (1) put together a gameplan that his players can execute, and (2) run practices in such a way that it teaches those players how to execute that gameplan. (Sorry if it seems like I'm just repeating myself; I guess I am.) There's no doubt that there have been huge deficiencies in both of these areas in 2007, and Weis is ultimately responsible for them, no matter what you say.

Finally: note that I'm NOT saying that Weis can't get the job done long-term. I'm just saying, and it seems simply incredible to me that anyone could deny this, that he's done an AWFUL job in 2007. The fact is that there are many other coaches who could have put together a far more proficient offensive attack with this current group of players. Am I saying that that means they're ultimately better coaches than Weis is? No - in fact the whole argument of my second post hinges on the claim that his coaching style DOES work when he has the right sort of players. But there's no reason to let this distract us from the fact - and it is clearly, clearly, CLEARLY a fact - that CW screwed the proverbial pooch in the first two-thirds of this season, big time.
 

piyachi

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quicksilver - perhaps, and almost all of these points I agree with. The one contention is that ultimately the personnel decisions are made by Charile, and if we have a lousy line coach, then can his ass. I don't know what to think in terms of what the troubles of the o-line fall under, but it really does seem that they could do a lot better, even at a young age. I might think that Latina gets another year, but if there isn't some amazing improvement he MUST be gone. He might already be a Callahan, who knows (I would strongly suspect it).

When people find faults with the team coaching it rises to the top. Though the line may be our true achilles heel this year, ultimately people are going to evaluate it through Weis. Ty and Latina have fault here (in my opinion 90% of it) but really the chief has to take the heat, thats why he is at the top.
 

quiksilver253

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I don't see why you think I was "up [his] ass" in what I said.

In the first place, it's not as if Weis gets a free pass for the fact that the offensive line has been so bad: it's ultimately HIS job to teach players to perform, and HIS job to call plays that they can execute.

Secondly, I think it's just not true that the o-line has been at the source of all of the team's problems. They're not the ones who are missing easy throws or dropping easy catches; they're not the ones who are running too tentatively to hit the (admittedly few) holes that are opened up for them, or to break tackles or run over defenders when they get a chance; they're not the ones who have put the ball on the carpet with stunning regularity or thrown numerous bad interceptions; they're not the ONLY ones screwing up on blitz pick-up; and so on and so on. I definitely agree with you that the play of the offensive line has been the biggest on-the-field problem, but it's far from the ONLY thing that's at the root of this team's troubles.

Thirdly, even if it is true that "all of [his] players love him", obviously that's not enough. They need to execute the tasks he sets for them to do, and the fact is that they've regularly failed to do that. That this is partly Weis's fault - both because he's asked them to do unreasonable things, and because he and his staff haven't done a good enough job of teaching them - is something nobody should deny.

Fourthly, you ask "How do you expect the man to put together a gameplan when he doesnt know wtf his line is going to do or which team is going to show up." Well, I think the answer is that he ought to (1) put together a gameplan that his players can execute, and (2) run practices in such a way that it teaches those players how to execute that gameplan. (Sorry if it seems like I'm just repeating myself; I guess I am.) There's no doubt that there have been huge deficiencies in both of these areas in 2007, and Weis is ultimately responsible for them, no matter what you say.

Finally: note that I'm NOT saying that Weis can't get the job done long-term. I'm just saying, and it seems simply incredible to me that anyone could deny this, that he's done an AWFUL job in 2007. The fact is that there are many other coaches who could have put together a far more proficient offensive attack with this current group of players. Am I saying that that means they're ultimately better coaches than Weis is? No - in fact the whole argument of my second post hinges on the claim that his coaching style DOES work when he has the right sort of players. But there's no reason to let this distract us from the fact - and it is clearly, clearly, CLEARLY a fact - that CW screwed the proverbial pooch in the first two-thirds of this season, big time.

Im not talking just about you, but i hate to see that people can go from loving weiss to hating him so damn quickly. everybody knew this was gonna be a bad year but with a bright future and all these ppl suddently hate him
 

johnnd05

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Im not talking just about you, but i hate to see that people can go from loving weiss to hating him so damn quickly. everybody knew this was gonna be a bad year but with a bright future and all these ppl suddently hate him

Well, come on ... NOBODY thought this year was going to be THIS bad. And there's definitely reason to be less than 100% confident that the future will in fact be as bright as we've hoped. I'm definitely among the optimists on this issue, but that doesn't change my disappointment with how this year has gone, my frustration with Weis because of that, and my all-around worries about the state of the team pending the possible offensive explosion against Navy.

Let me just go on the record as saying that if that last thing doesn't happened, I'll be frigging WORRIED about whether CW can really get it done as a college coach.
 

Timugen

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Im not talking just about you, but i hate to see that people can go from loving weiss to hating him so damn quickly. everybody knew this was gonna be a bad year but with a bright future and all these ppl suddently hate him

The reason that many are questioning CW now is not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. Yes, we all "saw this year coming," but if you say that you saw us fielding a team that could possibly be the worst offensively in Div I-A history then you'd be a liar. I can handle the dismal record, but what I can't handle is watching a team every Saturday that doesn't even look like they deserve to be on the field in a college football game. You add to that the fact that we have seen little to no improvement 2/3 of the way through the season and you get people questioning CW, and not seeing the future so rosy until his team shows us something on the field that would lead one to believe otherwise.
 

johnnd05

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The reason that many are questioning CW now is not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. Yes, we all "saw this year coming," but if you say that you saw us fielding a team that could possibly be the worst offensively in Div I-A history then you'd be a liar. I can handle the dismal record, but what I can't handle is watching a team every Saturday that doesn't even look like they deserve to be on the field in a college football game. You add to that the fact that we have seen little to no improvement 2/3 of the way through the season and you get people questioning CW, and not seeing the future so rosy until his team shows us something on the field that would lead one to believe otherwise.

Right on, Timugen. Though I'd say - and I think you'd agree with me here - that the awfulness of the losses, or even of the way we've played in them, isn't ITSELF the key problem: it's what they spell for the future that really worries me. An offensive explosion of any sort on Saturday against Navy would go a long way to making me more comfortable with this team.
 

Timugen

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Right on, Timugen. Though I'd say - and I think you'd agree with me here - that the awfulness of the losses, or even of the way we've played in them, isn't ITSELF the key problem: it's what they spell for the future that really worries me. An offensive explosion of any sort on Saturday against Navy would go a long way to making me more comfortable with this team.


I agree 100%. The lack of improvement over this season is precisely what has me concerned about the future. CW can bring in all the 5 star recruits in the world, but if he can't get them to perform on the field at the college level then there really isn't much to look forward to.

As for the Navy game...I hate to say it, but I really do think this is the year that the streak ends. I hope not, but I just can't help but see a game where our defense keeps things "within reach" for 2 or maybe 3 quarters, but our offense can't help but trip over it's own feet.
 

johnnd05

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As for the Navy game...I hate to say it, but I really do think this is the year that the streak ends. I hope not, but I just can't help but see a game where our defense keeps things "within reach" for 2 or maybe 3 quarters, but our offense can't help but trip over it's own feet.

The insatiable optimist in me is confident that you're wrong ... but he's also aware that he's an insatiable optimist. I still think that this is the week that it finally comes together for our "O".
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Nice John, I see I'm going to have to devote time to a Ken Burns-like 10 part thread on the efficacy of trickle down theory as it relates to ice cream sold in South Bend.
 

johnnd05

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Nice John, I see I'm going to have to devote time to a Ken Burns-like 10 part thread on the efficacy of trickle down theory as it relates to ice cream sold in South Bend.

There is no ice cream in South Bend. Only Ritters. Sweet, delicious frozen custard ... :drool:
 

johnnd05

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Taking Stock, Part III: Dig deep

<em>(This is the third in a series of three posts analyzing the season so far and looking ahead to its remainder. Part I, "19 reasons why Notre Dame's offense has sucked so badly in 2007," is available <a href="http://www.irishenvy.com/irishroundup/taking-stock-part-i-19-reasons-why-notre-dames-offense-has-sucked-so-badly-in-2007" target="_blank">here</a>, and Part II, "Identity crisis," is <a href="http://www.irishenvy.com/irishroundup/taking-stock-part-ii-identity-crisis" target="_blank">here</a>.)</em>

If it's true, as I argued it is in the first two posts of this series, that the primary reason Notre Dame's offense has been so bad this year is because of <strong>Charlie Weis</strong> himself, and that putting this season together with the last two gives us reason to think that the same characteristics that seem to make Weis a very good or even great coach for a bunch of hard-working, self-motivating, experienced veterans like the ones he had in 2005 and 2006, make him a downright awful coach for a bunch of unpolished youngsters like these ones, then an obvious question we need to ask ourselves is whether he's going to be able to help this current group make the necessary transition. There's no reason to think that the raw talent isn't there; the issue is that of developing it in the right ways.

One aspect of this, which many people picked up on in commenting on the earlier posts (see <a href="http://ocdomer.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">OCDomer's</a> helpful response <a href="http://www.irishenvy.com/irishroundup/taking-stock-part-ii-identity-crisis#comment-125" target="_blank">here</a>, for example), concerns the purely "physical" aspect of their development. Can Weis and the rest of his staff help these players build the strength and stamina they need to perform at a high level? Can they teach them the "fundamentals"? Can they help players like <strong>Jimmy Clausen</strong> and <strong>Armando Allen</strong> put on enough weight - <a href="http://www.rakesofmallow.com/story/2007/10/29/235240/50" target="_blank">of the right kind</a>, mind you - to absorb the physical pounding that comes with playing D-I football? And so on.

But while I think these kinds of questions are really very important, they actually weren't the focus of what I was trying to bring out in my earlier posts. At the heart of my argument on <a href="http://www.irishenvy.com/irishroundup/taking-stock-part-i-19-reasons-why-notre-dames-offense-has-sucked-so-badly-in-2007" target="_blank">Tuesday</a> was the idea that many of this team's biggest problems so far have been <em>mental</em> rather than purely physical: they've been tentative, distracted, easily discouraged, and so on. Similarly, my argument on <a href="http://www.irishenvy.com/irishroundup/taking-stock-part-ii-identity-crisis" target="_blank">Wednesday</a> centered on the proposal that there was something about the <em>psychological </em>make-up of the 2005 and 2006 teams that made them respond well to Weis's coaching style in a way that this one hasn't. To be honest, I have little doubt that these guys will get there physically; the real question for me is whether they can keep their heads in the game.

Here's what <strong>Aaron Taylor</strong> had to say about this in a (somewhat over-the-top) <a href="http://www.legendsofsouthbend.com/node/167?page=0%2C2" target="_blank">post</a> he wrote after standing on the Notre Dame sidelines for the USC game:
<blockquote>These players are done. They don’t seem to play with passion or even be bothered when things are going wrong. In fact, it almost seemed like they were used to it. Laughing and joking on the sideline by a select few players while receiving the worst beat down in the 70+ game history with USC. What’s worse than them laughing was that no one seemed to do anything about it. No one yelling at the players. No one holding each other accountable on their respective sides of the ball. No one finally saying, “enough is enough” and doing something about it. Blank stares and apathy by starters and veterans. Guys seemingly relieved when something goes wrong and it wasn’t their fault. Embarrassing … and they just seem to take it. Except for the defense, however, as <strong>Corwin [Brown] </strong>and his boys come to play.</blockquote>
In my mind, it's this sort of thing that's far and away the biggest threat to the development of the current freshmen and sophomores. If they get discouraged and hang their heads when things go wrong, then the way Charlie Weis coaches will consistently be received as overwhelming and overbearing. And if this kind of behavior really is characteristic of their mindset right now, then that gives us reason to think that they many never become the kinds of players they need to be if they're going to become winners down the line.

While I obviously wasn't able to be on the sidelines for the SC game, a worrying moment for me came right at the midpoint of the third quarter. The Irish trailed 31-0 following <strong>Vidal Hazelton's</strong> touchdown reception, and faced a third-and-three after Armando Allen had churned out a seven-yard run. <strong>Evan Sharpley</strong> broke the huddle, and you could see <strong>Sam Young</strong> and <strong>Mike Turkovich</strong> give a half-hearted clap, sigh, hang their heads, and shuffle over to the line of scrimmage. It was the look of a group that had been whipped: a team that HAD said "enough is enough," albeit not in the way one would hope for.

If Taylor's diagnosis is right - and it should be said that similar rumors have swirled around this team for much of the season - then there's a LOT to be worried about. One scenario this recalls is the end of the 2004 season, which started off with an embarrassing 2-6 record that included a 38-0 blowout loss on the road to Michigan, a 45-14 smoking at home against Southern Cal, and a 37-0 home defeat to Florida State. After squeaking past Navy and BYU at home and easily beating Rutgers (you know, back when they were awful) on the road, <strong>Tyrone Willingham's</strong> Irish were left a chance to finish the season at 6-6 and put themselves in contention for a bowl invitation they'd almost certainly receive. We all remember how that ended: Notre Dame lost, 38-12, to a Syracuse team that one week earlier had been simply spanked by Rutgers. And in the eyes of many of the Irish faithful, the sorry performance on that day was an example of a team that had quit on their coach.

Unlike Willingham's team, which headed into that last game with a shot at a .500 regular season record, the current group of players has no hope for a postseason bowl. But that doesn't make the end of their season any less important. It's not just that the Irish need to win out these last four games and end the year at a somewhat respectable 5-7, or even that they need to generate some positive momentum heading into the offseason, but that they need to show that they aren't going to go the route that the Irish of 2003 went against the Orangemen. This team needs to show some heart, some spirit, some drive: they need to push around their undersized and under-talented opponents, to control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, to hit - hard - and wrap up, to give evidence of what Weis's offense and Brown's defense can do when the balance of the talent is on their side. In a word: they need to show that they're not going to <em>quit</em>.

Let me reiterate: the primary reason I say this is not because of the remainder of the 2007 season itself. This year is lost, no doubt about that. The key issues have to do with the development - in particular, the psychological maturation - of the young players: are they going to allow themselves to be mired into a cycle of losing, with everything that attends it? Or are they going to break out, push harder, and continue to improve themselves? Are they going to develop the tough, dedicated, non-defeatist mindset that allowed <strong>Brady Quinn</strong> and his colleagues to play so well under Weis in 2005 and 2006? Or are they going to go a different route?

After the sorry performance against USC two weeks ago, and Taylor's description of the mood on the sidelines, it's natural to think that this team has already made its choice. But I want to suggest briefly that such a judgment would be unfounded.

In the first place, it's worth pointing out that the practice reports we've seen following the SC game have generally painted the picture of a pretty fired-up team. <a href="http://www.etruth.com/Know/StaffBlogs/ViewBlog.aspx?bID=276" target="_blank">Here</a>, for example, is Ben Ford's account of what things were like just three days after the loss:
<blockquote><span id="ctl00_ctl00_ctl00_contentArea_mainContentArea_contentMain_lblBlogText">The energy level was extremely high, starting with the defensive linemen, where <strong>Justin Brown</strong> and <strong>Kallen Wade</strong> raced to the blocking sled. Wade — who's got a much longer stride — won by a length. (Sorry, that's a little Breeders' Cup excitement working its way into a football blog.)</span>

But the receivers were by far the most energetic group today. Coach <strong>Rob Ianello</strong> had them running the running backs' gauntlet — that's a first, as far as I know — and the players let loose with some great Captain Caveman-style yells, especially <strong>[Robby] Parris</strong> and walk-on <strong>Nick Possley</strong>.</blockquote>
But in my mind, the far more important sign is another thing that happened right after the USC game: <strong>Michael Floyd</strong> and <strong>Jonas Gray</strong>, two highly-regard recruits who had been watching the game from the same vantage point as Aaron Taylor had, made verbal commitments to the Irish, turning down offers from numerous teams having considerably more on-the-field success. They had been with the Irish players before, during, and after the loss; they had gotten an in-depth look at what the attitude of the team was like. And yet - or and <em>so</em>, we might think - they decided that this was a group that they wanted to be a part of.

It might be easy to chalk this up to a couple of kids looking for early playing time, but that would be a mistake. Floyd, for example, had an offer from his homestate school, the woeful Minnesota Gophers, where he could likely have started from day one. Gray's case is even more instructive in this regard: in giving his pledge to the Irish, he reneged on an earlier commitment to Nebraska, a move that suggests that in his mind anyway, the two programs are headed in quite different directions. Notre Dame, he seemed to be saying, is genuinely rebuilding, while the Huskers are simply falling apart.

It's hard to imagine how Floyd and Gray - as well as other recruits, like <strong>Trevor Robinson</strong> and <strong>Kenneth Page</strong>, who were also high on the Irish after visiting for the USC game - could have gotten such a positive impression if the attitude on the team had been as thoroughly defeatist as the picture Taylor paints. Notre Dame's recruiting successes this year suggest, not just that Weis, Brown, and the others are terrific at that aspect of their jobs (though they surely are), but also that there is a sizeable contingent of <em>players</em> who are happy to be at Notre Dame, genuinely excited about the direction the team is headed, and devoted to turning this ship around.

All that really matters, of course, is what happens on the playing field: and that's why these next four games are so important. In the first place, if the Irish continue to be embarrassed and fail to show tangible signs of improvement, it's easy to imagine that a good number of their committed players might decide that they've been mistaken about the overall direction of the team, and jump ship. Secondly, though, there's the psyche of the <em>current</em> players - the ones who will make up the core of this team in 2008 and beyond - to consider: any positive momentum they can build over the remainder of 2007 will do wonders for their confidence, and go a long way to making them the kind of "Weis guys" that I've been arguing they need to become, while continuing to struggle in the ways they have so far will seriously undermine this possibility.

It's time for this team to show us what they've got, and to decide for themselves what kind of team they're going to become.
 
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SouthernIrish

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i am going to memorize this so that i will sound "smart" at the Notre Dame football party i am going to Saturday
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