Jones to N. Illinois

[johnnd05]

So is that scholorship available immediately since it is vacated now or does it not become available till the following school year?

No, it is not immediately available. I'm not sure if it would have been available - to give to a walk-on, say - even if he'd been released from it, since the NCAA might have rules against handing out scholarships mid-season. But it can be used to bring in an extra recruit, keep an extra fifth-year senior, or offer another scholarship to a walk-on player, for the 2008 season.

 

[irish4ever]

With the talented frosh and soph classes on hand, plus the current verbal commits for next year's frosh class, I sure hope that ND is VERY selective and stingy on handing out a 5th year to this year's senior group. Use the scolarships for the "up and comers".

 

[johnnd05]

With the talented frosh and soph classes on hand, plus the current verbal commits for next year's frosh class, I sure hope that ND is VERY selective and stingy on handing out a 5th year to this year's senior group. Use the scolarships for the "up and comers".

This issue was pretty much beaten to death a few months ago, e.g. here: http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/fighting-irish-recruiting/22140-running-out-room.html. Basically I think that as it stands we'll have 27 spots available for freshmen, fifth-years, and walk-ons in '08. I don't think we're going to end up with more than 22 total recruits, so that would leave room for at least four guys to return for a fifth year. There are also lots of reasons not to overload a freshman class even if you DO have the opportunity, because then you throw off your numbers for future years and keep yourself from being able to take as many freshmen as you want to a year or two down the line.

 

[Sureal]

Interesting to see who will be the fifth year seniors next year... Does the coach ask the athletes or do they ask?

 

[johnnd05]

Interesting to see who will be the fifth year seniors next year... Does the coach ask the athletes or do they ask?

I guess it might be up to them to ask first, but whether they're accepted is the decision of the coaching staff (as well as the university, since they have to be accepted into a graduate degree program).

 

[goldandblue]

Who would be possible returning 5th year seniors next year?

 

[GoshenGipper]

No, it is not immediately available. I'm not sure if it would have been available - to give to a walk-on, say - even if he'd been released from it, since the NCAA might have rules against handing out scholarships mid-season. But it can be used to bring in an extra recruit, keep an extra fifth-year senior, or offer another scholarship to a walk-on player, for the 2008 season.

It would be if they would have released him from it, but they won't be doing that.

ND won't let Jones out of scholarship

SOUTH BEND – Demetrius Jones will have to pay his own way to Northern Illinois this year.

The former Notre Dame quarterback will not be released from his scholarship, the school decided Tuesday.

“We don’t believe that Demetrius’ departure was handled appropriately,” Notre Dame athletics director Kevin White said.

Jones made his decision known by not showing up for Notre Dame’s bus to Michigan on Friday afternoon. He did, however, go to Northern Illinois’ game against Eastern Michigan in DeKalb, Ill., on Saturday.

Jones told the South Bend Tribune he started classes Monday and Jones finally spoke to Notre Dame head coach Charlie Weis late Monday evening.

“It was a cordial conversation,” Weis said. “I wouldn’t say aired it out but we cleared up what was going on and he said he’s moved on and that’s about it.”

Weis said he wasn’t involved in whether or not Jones was released from his scholarship. The decision is usually made between institutions and athletic directors.

Now, per NCAA transfer rules, Jones will have to wait one year and pay one year’s worth of tuition at Northern Illinois before the Huskies are allowed to place him on scholarship. The school’s Web site lists the typical one year of tuition and room and board at $14,530.

Northern Illinois sports information director Donna Turner said the Huskies are at their scholarship limit for the 2007 season anyway and that Jones hasn’t been cleared to practice yet as he is going through university processing on his transfer.

“He could still talk to our coaches and participate in practices,” Turner said. “Just as a walk-on.”

As far as Notre Dame’s decision not to release Jones from his scholarship, Turner said that is “between Notre Dame and Demetrius. We have nothing to do with that.”

Jones had started Notre Dame’s season-opener against Georgia Tech, but was pulled after less than a half after completing 1 of 3 passes for 4 yards and rushing 12 times for 28 yards. He had initially beaten out junior Evan Sharpley and freshman Jimmy Clausen for the job. After the Georgia Tech game, Weis named Clausen the starter.

Weis’ decision set Jones’ transfer in motion.

“The way I left was pretty immature,” Jones told the South Bend Tribune. “I’ve heard people say that, and they’re right. I should have handled it better.”

Notre Dame’s decision could lead to struggles in convincing future Chicago Public League recruits to attend the South Bend school.

“The coaches (of the CPL) are a tight-knit group so if one of them feels slighted, it could have an effect down the road,” Rivals.com national recruiting analyst Jeremy Crabtree said. “Notre Dame could say that it is our policy and how we do it with all our kids.

“…It’ll be all right but maybe will turn one or two guys off or some coaches off against them, it might. But it is left to be determined what will happen.”

Weis said Jones’ departure will not change how he recruits quarterbacks. Notre Dame has Californian Dayne Crist committed for the class of 2008 and Weis said he’ll recruit one quarterback in 2009. He also said if he does look at a second quarterback in a class, he will have it be a person who would also be willing to play another position.

 

[johnnd05]

It would be if they would have released him from it, but they won't be doing that.

I know - in fact I beat you to it.

 

[KAPLAN]

“The way I left was pretty immature,” Jones told the South Bend Tribune. “I’ve heard people say that, and they’re right. I should have handled it better.”

At least he realizes that he was in the wrong.

 

[johnnd05]

From the Sun-Times:

Jones has intimated that Notre Dame coaches knew he was leaving before he didn't show up for the team bus to Michigan on Friday, and when running back James Aldridge was asked about it Tuesday, he said, ''The coaches, they knew.''

But Weis said he wasn't informed until 2:10 p.m. Friday, when Jones text-messaged a teammate that he wasn't showing up, and the teammate told an Irish assistant coach.


''I have no reason to say it any different,'' Weis said. ''That's exactly what happened.''

HUH???

 

[goldandblue]

What the hell is going on with all this?

 

[dudexcore]

i need a drink, or 2.

 

[goldandblue]

i need a drink, or 2.

I'll buy!

 

[piyachi]

Trying to sift though this mess via my brain (in other words I don't have some 'source')

Facts:
- Jones didn't take the bus with the team to the scUM game (if you call it a game)
- Jones practiced with the team during the week
- Jones is now at NIU

Quotes:
- Weis: "At 2:30 today while boarding the bus to Michigan I was notified that Demetrius Jones has decided not to make the trip," Weis said. "I have not spoken to Demetrius and can only say that he missed the team bus. Any additional comment would be without all the facts."
- Jones: “The way I left was pretty immature,” Jones told the South Bend Tribune. “I’ve heard people say that, and they’re right. I should have handled it better.”
- Aldridge: ''The coaches, they knew.''

Other:
- Jones' own mother supposedly didn't know about any transfer
- Jones' HS coach said he didn't know 'anything about anything' (man I hate that phrase)



OK.... After looking at this little stew it seems to me that perhaps DD just freaked after he realized that he was most likely not even the front-runner for the backup spot. That on top of the fact that Charlie stated JC had been sort of the front runner since the spring (something I doubt Charlie shared with him....not dishonest, but also not something you tell someone you need to be a starter) which left him feeling betrayed. He wants to play QB, and only QB - something he has been up-front about for a while.

So in the week leading up to the MIA, he has all these things rolling around in his head as Jimmy passes with the first team and he wonders how all this has seemed to pass him by in an instant. Would Weis be the first person he goes to to talk it out when he thinks that he has been left in the dark for all this time?

I'm betting that Weis saw this coming, and perhaps the coaches did know that it was his intention even though he didn't go through the proper channels. It's entirely possible that:

A: Coaches knew what was happening but weren't about to open that can of worms to the media, and instead simply leave it as 'oh hey he didn't board the bus, thats all I know'

B: Coaches kinda have an idea it's coming but no official word from DD. When he doesn't show on Saturday, no one is shocked among the staff but it was never any sort of guarantee.

C: Players know and coaches don't. People are more willing to talk to their peers than the people in charge. This is often the case in my experience. When Saturday rolls around the coaches are surprised and have to manage it.

D: No one outside of DD knows anything. All the marbles have been rolling around up there and finally he decides its either bolt or sit for 4 years. So it's bolt.

Now I tend to lean towards A - since when has Charlie loved giving access to the media? He didn't want them harassing the QBs before the season, and he probably doesn't them sticking their noses in now. So the PC answer is, hey I don't really know what the deal is, even if he pretty much did. Hence the players know the coaches know, but officially they didn't. So.... DD leaves unsure of what to do, Charlie has to brush off NDSPN a-holes, and K White leaves irritated that it makes bad press and that the proper red tape wasn't cut.

No worries, I don't think the kid is low-class or a jerk for doing what he did. Push came to shove and he left. I hope he leads NIU well. Do they play anyone on our schedule in the next 4 years?

 

[Nuffsed]

Weis needs to communicate better with his athletes. He should not humiliate a starting quarterback and make that qb take the brunt of his inexperience as a head coach. Weis better learn quickly how to become human with his kids. He is not dealing with professional athletes and lawyers anymore. He is dealing with ambitious young men, fresh out of high school. His staff should have known better and prevented this, or at least know how to deal with it. I smell a coup.

 

[Newc]

Haha what?? Are you in the locker room and team meetings? Dude, none of us know what has gone on behind closed doors so far and none of us know why and how this all has transpired exactly. To the outsiders it looks like an issue of playing time and not wanting to move positions rather than a total breakdown of communication and a "coup" brewing. Ultimately, if these kids want to play D-1 football for the most storied program in history then they need to come prepared with a little more maturity then was shown. These are NOT kids, they are men...they sure do want all the advantages of being adults so they better accept all the responsibilites as well.

I understand many of us are upset, but charlie and his guys will get it worked out...be patient.

 

[goldenlid]

How could anyone prevent this? DD wanted to start as a D1 QB and if not at ND than somewhere else. I will say that if they did not know it was coming then they do need to do a better job relating with their players and that does need to be addressed.

 

[Nuffsed]

Haha what?? Are you in the locker room and team meetings? Dude, none of us know what has gone on behind closed doors so far and none of us know why and how this all has transpired exactly. To the outsiders it looks like an issue of playing time and not wanting to move positions rather than a total breakdown of communication and a "coup" brewing. Ultimately, if these kids want to play D-1 football for the most storied program in history then they need to come prepared with a little more maturity then was shown. These are NOT kids, they are men...they sure do want all the advantages of being adults so they better accept all the responsibilites as well.

I understand many of us are upset, but charlie and his guys will get it worked out...be patient.

How old are you? I am not upset.

 

[Nuffsed]

How could anyone prevent this? DD wanted to start as a D1 QB and if not at ND than somewhere else. I will say that if they did not know it was coming then they do need to do a better job relating with their players and that does need to be addressed.

Somehow, my first response got nixed.

Anyone can prevent this by knowing what they are doing. CW is inexperienced as a college head coach, and does not know what he is doing. He will become aware of better options after a few years of experience. You agreed with me with the second half of your post.

 

[Newc]

Oh I'm 24...and you?

And you'll have to pardon me for taking your post as a sign of frustration and being upset. Usually when people predict a coup and demand coaches to do one thing or another they do so out of frustration.

I do have a question for you though, I would love to know what D-1 level or higher program you coach or are involved with that enables you to claim that charlie doesn't know what he is doing.

 

[Nuffsed]

Oh I'm 24...and you?

And you'll have to pardon me for taking your post as a sign of frustration and being upset. Usually when people predict a coup and demand coaches to do one thing or another they do so out of frustration.

I do have a question for you though, I would love to know what D-1 level or higher program you coach or are involved with that enables you to claim that charlie doesn't know what he is doing.

I do not pardon you for taking my post as a sign of frustration and being upset. I think you are projecting your frustration onto me.

I am not upset.

I said I "smelled" a coup, I didn't say I predicted one. I predicted one last year in other forums under differents names. Apparently, my prediction was correct.

I say Charlie doesn't know what he is doing as a college head coach because he has never been a college head coach.

 

[Newc]

Hey...I'm not frustrated, I'm a Sox fan, I've dealt with let down after let down and I've become fairly good at handling them.

As for you being correct about a coup...where is it? DD left the team because he wanted to play, not sit behind Jimmy, not a big deal and if ND wasn't playing so poorly then this story would not be as big as it is right now.

And Charlie has been a college coach for the past two seasons. I didn't hear too many people claiming that Charlie didn't know how to coach college kids when he bough Brady to the forefront of college football. Its funny how when the team hits a rough spot everyone involved is clueless about what they are doing. Like I said earlier...we all need to be patient, its growing pains, we'll get through them.

 

[Madknute]

Sorry but not surprised that DD left. He saw the writing on the wall and probably wants a shot at playing QB somewhere.

I hope the AD has the wisdom to release him for his scholarship. No good reason to create ill will. If he does not want to be a part of the ND family, so be it.

 

[johnnd05]

Sorry but not surprised that DD left. He saw the writing on the wall and probably wants a shot at playing QB somewhere.

I hope the AD has the wisdom to release him for his scholarship. No good reason to create ill will. If he does not want to be a part of the ND family, so be it.

As was posted above, they're not going to. But it doesn't make a difference since NIU reportedly didn't have an extra scholarship to offer this year anyway, so he'd have to pay is own way whether he was "released" or not.

 

[johnnd05]

I think there's no problem with him taking a scholarship from NIU for next year, just not for this one. A player can probably "release himself" once the season is over.

This ChiTrib article confirms that I was right about this, basically:

Football scholarships are renewed on an annual basis, so Jones would not be stuck in football purgatory. He would be released from Notre Dame before next season and NIU could give Jones a scholarship at that time if it so chooses.

 

[piyachi]

I said I "smelled" a coup, I didn't say I predicted one. I predicted one last year in other forums under differents names. Apparently, my prediction was correct.

I say Charlie doesn't know what he is doing as a college head coach because he has never been a college head coach.

Not trying to jump you, but why would you be correct? Also, what about last year made you think there was a 'coup', now or then? We have had 2 players transfer at a position were we do have some talent, and have lost 3 games this season. Personally, I fail to make a connection between this and a 'coup'.

This is splitting hairs, but what is the difference between 'smelling' and 'predicting'? Both are essentially pointing to the same thing, as far as I understand.

As for the third point, I think you are wrong on both counts. I do think winning more games in his first two seasons than any HC in ND history pretty much shows that Charlie can be an effective college head coach. Also, after two years, if he is going to take the level of scrutiny and crticism that he has this year (which seems irrational to me since you could see it coming long ago) I'd say he has earned his stripes as already being a college head coach.

For the record though, you are one of the non-Koolaid drinkers that doesn't seem to freak out and run around bashing people, so thanks for that

GO IRISH

 

[nshope]

This dude is getting what he deserves...paying for school just like the rest of us ($17,000 I believe it is). He was given a GIFT of free education/housing for playing ND football. Even if Northern Illinois could have given him a scholarship immediately, I would hope that ND would've still denied him to prove a point about commitments. It is a privilege to play football at this level and I think more universities should take a harder stance on this topic. I get so disappointed in the "me" athletes out there that just want to move on because the situation isn't entirely rosy. There are thousands of other students-athletes in 1-A football that would've gladly taken Jones' scholarship this year to run out with the blue and gold. Hasta la vista, cry-baby!!

 

[johnnd05]

Piyachi, your post from yesterday is really good.

I'm betting that Weis saw this coming, and perhaps the coaches did know that it was his intention even though he didn't go through the proper channels. It's entirely possible that:

A: Coaches knew what was happening but weren't about to open that can of worms to the media, and instead simply leave it as 'oh hey he didn't board the bus, thats all I know'

B: Coaches kinda have an idea it's coming but no official word from DD. When he doesn't show on Saturday, no one is shocked among the staff but it was never any sort of guarantee.

C: Players know and coaches don't. People are more willing to talk to their peers than the people in charge. This is often the case in my experience. When Saturday rolls around the coaches are surprised and have to manage it.

D: No one outside of DD knows anything. All the marbles have been rolling around up there and finally he decides its either bolt or sit for 4 years. So it's bolt.

Now I tend to lean towards A - since when has Charlie loved giving access to the media? He didn't want them harassing the QBs before the season, and he probably doesn't them sticking their noses in now. So the PC answer is, hey I don't really know what the deal is, even if he pretty much did. Hence the players know the coaches know, but officially they didn't. So.... DD leaves unsure of what to do, Charlie has to brush off NDSPN a-holes, and K White leaves irritated that it makes bad press and that the proper red tape wasn't cut.

I think (A) is a pretty unlikely option, since in a way Weis DID "give access to the media": he didn't just say "we have no comment" or "Demetrius has left the team under circumstances we will not disclose", but he said then and now that Jones was just a no-show for the bus. Moreover, there had been rumors flying around that DJ planned to ditch the team without telling the coaches, and the fact that he signed up for the team bus and showed up to practice even while he was apparently already enrolled at NIU goes a long way to confirming this.

This doesn't show that the staff knew NOTHING about what was going on - so something like (B) is a possibility. But once again, if Jones was signed up for the bus and had been showing up to practice, then it's hard to believe they would have figured that things had already gone as far as they had. Did they know that he was frustrated and thinking of transferring? Probably - and this COULD be all that was meant by the Aldridge quote. Did they still think he was going to show up for the UM game? Once again, they probably did.

I don't doubt that some variant of (C) is true as well: some of the players had almost definitely heard the rumblings. But the fact that they didn't tell the coaching staff definitely doesn't show that there was any sort of mutiny afoot: in the first place, they probably wanted to respect Jones's privacy; in the second place, they probably wanted to give him the chance to work things out on his own and not just rat him out to the staff. I doubt that many of them knew that he was just going to be a no-show; perhaps a few of them did, but once again this is the sort of thing that I can totally understand keeping to oneself.

All in all: this was an absolute circus, and no doubt there were ways in which Weis and the other coaches could have done a better job of dealing with Jones's psyche. But he was pretty clearly a frustrated kid who felt he wasn't being given the shot he deserved - heck, I can remember feeling just that way when I'd get cut from sports teams in junior high and high school. Like DJ said, he dealt with it immaturely and now everyone's trying to put it behind them. I'm sure that this whole situation was part of the reason why the team looked so listless on Saturday - that's the staff's fault, though, because it's their job to get these guys mentally prepared. We're going to learn a lot about Weis & Co. in 50 hours or so.

 

[johnnd05]

A bit more on this, from the Chicago Tribune:

"The facts that are out there now are just not true," Jones told the Tribune on Monday, declining to say how or whether he had notified Notre Dame of his decision to leave last week.

"Because people are trying to [assassinate] my character and don't really know what's going on, I think it's best for me not to say anything.

"People don't know the facts. The [Notre Dame] team did know I wasn't coming prior to that bus taking off. They found out before the bus was scheduled to depart, and it wasn't something like, 'Where's Demetrius? Where's Demetrius?' They were notified."

Jones, who started the Irish's season opener against Georgia Tech, was not on the bus when Notre Dame departed campus last Friday for Saturday's Michigan game in Ann Arbor. He had enrolled at Northern Illinois and attended the Huskies' game Saturday against Eastern Michigan.

Weis said Saturday that he had not known that Jones was missing until 15 minutes before the bus was to depart, at which point he told backups Darrin Bragg and Justin Gillett to "get your stuff ... we need a couple more quarterbacks." Neither player had been scheduled to make the trip.

Weis indicated Saturday that he had not talked to Jones.

Note that what Jones says - that the staff "found out before the bus was scheduled to depart" - isn't inconsistent with what Weis says - that "he had not know that Jones was missing until 15 minutes before the bus was to depart". Sorry, DJ, 15 minutes notice isn't quite enough. That Bragg and Gillett had to stop on a dime and run for the bus just shows how badly this all was orchestrated.

The "15 minutes" point can also go some way to explaining the Aldridge quote, though this is also relevant:

Jones has intimated that Notre Dame coaches knew he was leaving before he failed to board the team bus to Michigan on Friday. Sophomore running back James Aldridge said, ''The coaches, they knew,'' when asked about it Tuesday, but Aldridge clarified that statement Wednesday.

''I wasn't saying the coaches knew beforehand,'' Aldridge said.

Like I said, a circus ...

 

[irish4ever]

I hope the AD has the wisdom to release him for his scholarship. No good reason to create ill will. If he does not want to be a part of the ND family, so be it.

He's a quitter! I hope they don't release him from his scolarship. Regardless of how this whole thing transpired between him and the coaching staff, if doesn't have the gonads to address it man-to-man (face-to-face), then he doesn't deserve to be "released"! I have no problem w/ him seeing that this isn't the right place for him to "pursue his QB dream at a D1 school", but he needs to be a man in regards to his actions (deciding to leave)!