Weis presser hindering new commits

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Losing two recruits right before NSD was not well taken by us fans, nor the coaching staff. I think it's understandable that there was anger, hurt, and some degree of embarrassment. It seems to me that the positon by Weis about questioning what a committment means is well taken. While some of you defend the fact that these are young kids and should be given some leeway, I'm not so sure. This is the same age that these same kids enter national selective service status (military draft available), or can choose a military career in which they could die for our great country. Choosing where to go to college for free hardly seems like a similar life and death situation. I do think that we should always respect them and understand where they are coming from, but kids are much more astute than are given credit for.
Which is why I suggest that a seemingly hard line on future recruiting prospects may be nice, it could backfire and cause the recruits to withhold commiting until ABSOLUTELY positive they want to attend ND. While this may seem attractive, it could delay the commitals, affect other recruits who may want to see some synergy at a school occuring, or cause other prospects to not want to deal with a hardline situation.
I hope i'm wrong about this, and intially, I supported Weis in what he said, I just wonder how it will all be taken.

 

[Junkhead]

Success brings the recruits. The offensive recruits have been oustanding the past 2 years, due to having offensive success (Quinn, Samardzija, etc.) The D has been medicore to poor, and D recrutiing has been spotty. Great players are coming in, just not as many as we'd hoped for. ND has the benefit of national TV exposure every week, top-notch education, and history. Other football powers such as USC or UF have the benefit of better weather, much less restrictive admissions, and more recent success in BCS/NC games. I agree with taking those who want to be here, and forgeting those who aren't sure....

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I agree with taking those who want to be here, and forgeting those who aren't sure....

I concur wholeheartely about that. MY concern is the effect on the timing of the commitals. It could be none, it might also be a factor. I do know that it is something to consider.

 

[irishunclebill]

Success brings the recruits. The offensive recruits have been oustanding the past 2 years, due to having offensive success (Quinn, Samardzija, etc.) The D has been medicore to poor, and D recrutiing has been spotty. Great players are coming in, just not as many as we'd hoped for. ND has the benefit of national TV exposure every week, top-notch education, and history. Other football powers such as USC or UF have the benefit of better weather, much less restrictive admissions, and more recent success in BCS/NC games. I agree with taking those who want to be here, and forgeting those who aren't sure....

I agree Junkhead. I think Weis had to take the hard line Les Miles position in light of what happened to only ND on NSD. He may lose a few recruits because of it, but as least he will be sure that they want to be here. IMO what really burned CW was Greg Little even more than Trattou. Since NSD it has become increasingly obvious that Greg Little never intended to go to ND, and the only reason he initially committed was that he knew it was the only way he would get to play in the Army All American game, where it was apparently his intention to showcase his skills to all schools, not just ND and UNC. If this is all true, then Greg Little's actions were much more despicable than either Trattou, or the other Little, and pretty Machiavellian for a 17 or 18 year old. I subscribe to the theory that these kids are much savvier than we generally give credit for to this age group. IMO it's tough to get burnt, but it's much worse to be used. I believe CW will do everything in his power to prevent ND from being used again by a recruit to further his own agenda.

 

[ChiND]

The question should be posed to recruits this way (a la Mack Brown); if you commit to us then we are committed to you. Even if you get hurt, we are committed to you as a STUDENT / athlete and will pay for your education. If kids want a U to be committed to them like this, then they should also be as committed....OR if they would like, coaches should pull schollies and basically say F-em whenever they feel like it. The kids are making recruiting a nasty game, not necessarily the coaches.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Success brings the recruits. The offensive recruits have been oustanding the past 2 years, due to having offensive success (Quinn, Samardzija, etc.) The D has been medicore to poor, and D recrutiing has been spotty. Great players are coming in, just not as many as we'd hoped for. ND has the benefit of national TV exposure every week, top-notch education, and history. Other football powers such as USC or UF have the benefit of better weather, much less restrictive admissions, and more recent success in BCS/NC games. I agree with taking those who want to be here, and forgeting those who aren't sure....

A very fair assessment and I agree completely. Our recruiting on the O side of the ball has been outstanding and due in large part to the success of the unit as a whole. Now, as we continue to show improvment (hopefully) under Corwin, genuine interest for playing for this defense and the team as a whole will most certainly pick up.

 

[KingAdrock99]

Weis just means that if you're not sure you want to go to a school, don't commit. Don't commit with the intention of looking elsewhere. Go exhaust your choices, do your research, pick a school and stick to it. It's real simple. It makes it easier on everyone. Guys who flip flop have weak character. Some have honest reasons for changing, when the situation changes but for the most part, they're guys who haven't even visited other schools yet. Do your research, then commit and stick to it.

 

[weisbankaccount]

Weis' reaction was kneejerk in my opinion. I love ND but one of the things I dont like is if something doesnt work out for ND then we have to revisit the process all of a sudden.

If 2 recruits jerked The Minnesota Gophers around, its a footnote.

It happened, it is what it is, now move on and coach up the 18 blue chip athletes you just landed.

All this stuff suggested is crap. If you have a early signing day, then its probably the hardcore ND guys that were gonna sign early or 7 years later anyway.

The hypocrisy is that if this system was in place ND probably misses out on the linebacker Smith and kicker, Walker.

Its time to put the issue to rest.

 

[onenybrother]

Weis' reaction was kneejerk in my opinion. I love ND but one of the things I dont like is if something doesnt work out for ND then we have to revisit the process all of a sudden.

If 2 recruits jerked The Minnesota Gophers around, its a footnote.

It happened, it is what it is, now move on and coach up the 18 blue chip athletes you just landed.

All this stuff suggested is crap. If you have a early signing day, then its probably the hardcore ND guys that were gonna sign early or 7 years later anyway.

The hypocrisy is that if this system was in place ND probably misses out on the linebacker Smith and kicker, Walker.

Its time to put the issue to rest.

The world always come to a end when it happens to us. Let's not think for one minute that Weiss wasn't calling other schools commit. Always remember who Weiss mentor is, the biggest whoa's me there is Bill Parcells

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Weis' reaction was kneejerk in my opinion. I love ND but one of the things I dont like is if something doesnt work out for ND then we have to revisit the process all of a sudden.

If 2 recruits jerked The Minnesota Gophers around, its a footnote.

It happened, it is what it is, now move on and coach up the 18 blue chip athletes you just landed.

All this stuff suggested is crap. If you have a early signing day, then its probably the hardcore ND guys that were gonna sign early or 7 years later anyway.

The hypocrisy is that if this system was in place ND probably misses out on the linebacker Smith and kicker, Walker.

Its time to put the issue to rest.

My kneejerk reaction was an early signing period ala college b'ball, but once i thought about it, I agree w/ you in that the ones who were hardcore ND guys to begin w/ would sign & the others would go thru the usual process. I do like Weis' new strategy & don't blame him for having a kneejerk reaction. Maybe if he'd been doing this for 5-10 yrs but he's in his first head coaching gig (w/ the exception of the 1 yr in HS) and his 1st one in college where the buck stops w/ him regarding recruiting. He's learning but at least he's careful not to make the same mistake twice. I think most of us can agree that he has evolved as a recruiter since he signed on at ND. Plus, he can cut out all the HS shit of silent verbals, etc. If you're a "silent verbal" then that means you don't want the world to know that you're going to choose ND. Well, like Charlie said, "if you're looking, we're looking". Finally, as was said in an earlier reply, "winning cures everything". Start winning & the recruits will commit early & often

 

[Irish52]

I think our best selling point to a recruit is to simply show them the graduation rate for football players at some of the other big name schools. It's also interesting to look at the type of degree being given at some of these schools. How about a degree in "sports management" or "recreation planning" or "sports communications" or " sports (whatever). Now, that degree and a buck thirty-five will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. When a school convinces a recruit that it maintains a strong academic program and it takes care of its graduates, what exactly does that mean?

 

[IrishSanDiego]

I think our best selling point to a recruit is to simply show them the graduation rate for football players at some of the other big name schools. It's also interesting to look at the type of degree being given at some of these schools. How about a degree in "sports management" or "recreation planning" or "sports communications" or " sports (whatever). Now, that degree and a buck thirty-five will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. When a school convinces a recruit that it maintains a strong academic program and it takes care of its graduates, what exactly does that mean?

didnt greg little want to major in sports management.

 

[irishunclebill]

didnt greg little want to major in sports management.

Yes, he is already planning his career at ESPN, wants to follow in the footsteps of that noted sports journalist, Mark May.

 

[GoshenGipper]

Shh, he'll hear you. He's lurking at the bottom of every post.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

So basically, no one clings to the theory recruits might delay the committal because of what Weis said or a new change in policy?? I don't know, but it certainly seems plausible.

 

[ptrigger]

well we all know this is the way LSU works and their last five classes respectively are 4,7,22,2,1 on rivals. so it seems to work for them why not us?

 

[Freeman Ara]

So basically, no one clings to the theory recruits might delay the committal because of what Weis said or a new change in policy?? I don't know, but it certainly seems plausible.

I think thats basically what Weis wants, is the guy to delay his commitment until he is 100 percent sure that his mind is made up. That way once he commits Weis can move on to the next guy. Its not going to change much if anything really, because a lot of the big name recruits wait until the end of December beginning of January to commit anyway. I think Weis just wants to know where he stands from the get go, this might help cut down on the Benn and other silent verbal type situations in the future. I think this will make things better in the long run.

 

[BigIrish]

i don't see any reason to be concerned. if a kid wants to silently commit to the irish, weis is going to tell them to do it publicly. if they won't do it publicly, then weis will consider them an irish lean, nothing more. he's not going to pull a scholarship offer from a kid just because he likes the irish but wants to keep looking around. he's just not going to put them on the board as a commitment, and if someone else fills their position, so be it. an honest approach like that isn't going to scare away recruits in the slightest.

keep in mind that when weis talks with these kids about commitment, he's going to be talking about the university's commitment to them as well - an issue often overlooked when we're talking about commitments.

kids will still verbally commit to ND. kids will still decommit from ND. the most visible change in weis' philosophy will be when a verbally committed kid begins to show signs that he's not truly committed - i.e., other official visits, interest in other schools, etc. - weis will begin recruiting to replace that position at that time, rather than waiting until a kid finally decommits months later. that said, i have zero doubts that a kid in that position will have been fully informed by the irish staff what the consequences of his actions are. if he still decides to shop around, he's as good as gone anyway.

 

[Vince Young]

i don't see any reason to be concerned. if a kid wants to silently commit to the irish, weis is going to tell them to do it publicly. if they won't do it publicly, then weis will consider them an irish lean, nothing more. he's not going to pull a scholarship offer from a kid just because he likes the irish but wants to keep looking around. he's just not going to put them on the board as a commitment, and if someone else fills their position, so be it. an honest approach like that isn't going to scare away recruits in the slightest.

keep in mind that when weis talks with these kids about commitment, he's going to be talking about the university's commitment to them as well - an issue often overlooked when we're talking about commitments.

kids will still verbally commit to ND. kids will still decommit from ND. the most visible change in weis' philosophy will be when a verbally committed kid begins to show signs that he's not truly committed - i.e., other official visits, interest in other schools, etc. - weis will begin recruiting to replace that position at that time, rather than waiting until a kid finally decommits months later. that said, i have zero doubts that a kid in that position will have been fully informed by the irish staff what the consequences of his actions are. if he still decides to shop around, he's as good as gone anyway.

Bingo. Reps to you.

All Weis is doing is taking the same approach that he took with Mitch Mustain last year and opening it up to apply to ALL recruits. Remember, last year Mustain was leaning heavily toward Notre Dame but was still talking to other schools. Charlie tried to get a final answer from him, but Mitch kept playing coy. So, Charlie kept looking for other quarterbacks.

As a result we lost Mustain, but we got Demetrius Jones and Zach Fraser instead. Mustain turned out to be a gifted but inconsistent athlete and a spoiled brat with a bitchy mother. Not much of a loss in my book.

Think about what would've happened if we'd landed Mustain last year instead. He would've pouted on the bench while Brady Quinn got all the starts. The QB battle this spring would then be between Mustain and Clausen. Clausen would probably win, and Mustain would throw a temper tantrum and transfer leaving us with only 2 QBs: Clausen and Sharpley.

Instead, Charlie played things smart, let Mustain go and pulled in Jones and Fraser. And now we have 4 excellent QB options instead of just 2. And we can lose one of them to an ego-transfer and we'll STILL be ahead of the game by having 3 left.

Charlie got tough with one recruit, and things turned out very well indeed. If he DIDN'T learn from that and apply it all of his other recruits, I'd seriously question his abilities to learn and adapt. I'm a little frustrated it even took him this long, but I understand his desire to want to try doing things "the right way" first, and I applaud him for the effort.

I also applaud him for giving up on that effort as soon as he saw it was just getting him screwed.

 

[johnnd05]

I agree entirely with VY and BigIrish. It's interesting that Weis hasn't quite committed himself to the "Les Miles" policy: he hasn't said that if a committed recruit visits another school, then his schollie is gone, period. What he's said is, "If you're looking, we're looking", which is exactly how it should be. I don't see why this -- as opposed perhaps to the much more strict policy that Miles follows, which I do think could have its drawbacks -- is going to end up getting us in trouble.

 

[GoIrish41]

I agree entirely with VY and BigIrish. It's interesting that Weis hasn't quite committed himself to the "Les Miles" policy: he hasn't said that if a committed recruit visits another school, then his schollie is gone, period. What he's said is, "If you're looking, we're looking", which is exactly how it should be. I don't see why this -- as opposed perhaps to the much more strict policy that Miles follows, which I do think could have its drawbacks -- is going to end up getting us in trouble.

I'm having trouble getting my arms around why it wasn't like that this year. If you go back to the class before, it seems that is exactly what happened with Mustain. Jones committed and Mustain was left out. How is this "new" policy new? It just seems like it was abandoned this past recruiting class and it bit us. I think we got a heck of a recruiting class but we took a huge hit on credibility by letting some these wishy washy recruits (the Littles, JT, Benn, Donald) drive the train. If this policy will correct that problem, I'm all for it. That said, I don't really see how lecturing a kid about a commitment will keep him from answering the phone in their home when the ND staff isn't looking. Seems like it could just make them be more secretive and, maybe, dishonest with us.

 

[Vince Young]

I'm having trouble getting my arms around why it wasn't like that this year. If you go back to the class before, it seems that is exactly what happened with Mustain. Jones committed and Mustain was left out. How is this "new" policy new?

It's "new" in the sense that last year, Weis only used that policy on Mitch Mustain and only Mitch Mustain. He didn't play hard-ball like that with any other recruits last year or this year. Now, he's going to apply it to ALL recruits, not just one key guy being recruited for one key position. That's what makes it "new."

 

[irishunclebill]

Yes, he is already planning his career at ESPN, wants to follow in the footsteps of that noted sports journalist, Mark May.

I knew that somewhere I had seen G. Little's ESPN comments, just could not remember where yesterday. It was in the SBT, and here are the quotes attributed directly to G. Little:

"Me and my mom and my family had a big discussion (Tuesday night) and we just felt that North Carolina was a better place for me after my football career," Little told The News & Observer of Raleigh, N.C.

"I know there is a lot of uncertainty about what offense they will run and whether they will win or not, but I just looked at the overall picture. There have been a lot of people who have competed there with my major, and I wanted to go into Sports Administration.

"Coach (Butch) Davis has been in communications. They have a couple of people that have graduated from North Carolina and are on ESPN today."

Here is the link to the complete article:

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070208/NDSports02/702080355/-1/SPORTS/CAT=NDSports02

 

[weisbankaccount]

I knew that somewhere I had seen G. Little's ESPN comments, just could not remember where yesterday. It was in the SBT, and here are the quotes attributed directly to G. Little:

"Me and my mom and my family had a big discussion (Tuesday night) and we just felt that North Carolina was a better place for me after my football career," Little told The News & Observer of Raleigh, N.C.

"I know there is a lot of uncertainty about what offense they will run and whether they will win or not, but I just looked at the overall picture. There have been a lot of people who have competed there with my major, and I wanted to go into Sports Administration.

"Coach (Butch) Davis has been in communications. They have a couple of people that have graduated from North Carolina and are on ESPN today."

Here is the link to the complete article:

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070208/NDSports02/702080355/-1/SPORTS/CAT=NDSports02

What it boiled down to is that he knows he has a better shot at playing for NC. i dont know why they dont just say that. Truth be told, the #1 thing I would look at if I was a recruit is the current depth charts at the schools interested in me.

Like with ND - tight end is always stocked up to the hilt, ND is a TE factory. If I was a '08 recruit I would see that list of guys and think it better to maybe look at a school with a definite need at the position.

Thats just me though. These kids are so full of shit with the family meeting crap.

 

[kjones]

I knew that somewhere I had seen G. Little's ESPN comments, just could not remember where yesterday. It was in the SBT, and here are the quotes attributed directly to G. Little:

"Me and my mom and my family had a big discussion (Tuesday night) and we just felt that North Carolina was a better place for me after my football career," Little told The News & Observer of Raleigh, N.C.

"I know there is a lot of uncertainty about what offense they will run and whether they will win or not, but I just looked at the overall picture. There have been a lot of people who have competed there with my major, and I wanted to go into Sports Administration.

"Coach (Butch) Davis has been in communications. They have a couple of people that have graduated from North Carolina and are on ESPN today."

Here is the link to the complete article:

http://www.southbendtribune.com/app...NDSports02/702080355/-1/SPORTS/CAT=NDSports02

Notre Dame doesn't have crappy majors like "communications" (what do they do, practice talking???) or Sports Administrations. What it boils down to is not just playing time, but having easier classes where you don't have to work to get a degree. I'm not saying he's not smart, but it definately sounds like he was looking for one of those easier "football player" majors. A "couple" of people on ESPN is not really comparable to ND's alumni connections.

 

[GoIrish41]

Notre Dame doesn't have crappy majors like "communications" (what do they do, practice talking???) or Sports Administrations. What it boils down to is not just playing time, but having easier classes where you don't have to work to get a degree. I'm not saying he's not smart, but it definately sounds like he was looking for one of those easier "football player" majors. A "couple" of people on ESPN is not really comparable to ND's alumni connections.

Almost every school in the country has a commumications major. Characterize it any way you like, but here is a list of all the undergraduate majors offered at ND. I could make idiotic comments about a lot of these, but I don't wish to alienate any posters who may have majored in them. That's a little technique known as "knowing your audience." I wouldn't expect you to understand it though ... After all, I was a communications major.

American Studies, Anthropology, Art History, Chinese, Classics, Classical Civilization, Economics, Film and Video Production,History, Mathematics, Medieval Studies, Music, Philosophy, Philosophy and Theology, Political Science, Program of Liberal Studies, Psychology, Romance Languages and Literatures, Sociology, Spanish, Studio Art and Design, Theatre, Theology, Architecture, Biochemistry, Accounting, Business/Commerce, Finance, Management Information Systems; Computer and Information Sciences; Science Teacher Education, Engineering: Aerospace, Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering; Chemical Engineering; Civil Engineering; Computer Engineering; Electrical, Electronics and Communications Engineering; Environmental/Environmental Health Engineering; Mechanical Engineering, English, Ancient/Classical Greek; Arabic; Chinese; Classics and Languages, Literatures and Linguistics; French; German; Italian; Japanese; Latin; Russian; Spanish, Pre-Medical Studies, Criticism and Conservation; Design and Visual Communications.

 

[Vince Young]

That's a little technique known as "knowing your audience." I wouldn't expect you to understand it though ... After all, I was a communications major.

ZING!!!

Man, I'd rep that, but apparently I've repped you too recently. But I always appreciate a good zinger.

 

[kjones]

Almost every school in the country has a commumications major. Characterize it any way you like, but here is a list of all the undergraduate majors offered at ND. I could make idiotic comments about a lot of these, but I don't wish to alienate any posters who may have majored in them. That's a little technique known as "knowing your audience." I wouldn't expect you to understand it though ... After all, I was a communications major.

American Studies, Anthropology, Art History, Chinese, Classics, Classical Civilization, Economics, Film and Video Production,History, Mathematics, Medieval Studies, Music, Philosophy, Philosophy and Theology, Political Science, Program of Liberal Studies, Psychology, Romance Languages and Literatures, Sociology, Spanish, Studio Art and Design, Theatre, Theology, Architecture, Biochemistry, Accounting, Business/Commerce, Finance, Management Information Systems; Computer and Information Sciences; Science Teacher Education, Engineering: Aerospace, Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering; Chemical Engineering; Civil Engineering; Computer Engineering; Electrical, Electronics and Communications Engineering; Environmental/Environmental Health Engineering; Mechanical Engineering, English, Ancient/Classical Greek; Arabic; Chinese; Classics and Languages, Literatures and Linguistics; French; German; Italian; Japanese; Latin; Russian; Spanish, Pre-Medical Studies, Criticism and Conservation; Design and Visual Communications.

As an mechanical engineering major, and a PhD student, we make fun of all the "arts and letters" majors. Sorry if you took it personally, I'd be embarrased if I studied a basic survival need for a major as well.


As for the list, the only one that's probably really easy is probably PLS, they just read books and throw frisbees around. I used to see faint glimpses of them while my eyes were blinded after coming out of the computer lab i'd been in for days...




(disclaimer: to all communications and PLS majors, you can still be a smart person, I'm having fun with you. You probably were more fun at parties in college than me anyway.)