Heisman watch, Quinn vs. Smtih

[Master Guns]

PFW comments about BQ in the same magazine led me to believe that he is the real deal with most scouts, and is fundemetally sound and of unquestionable character. Character and strong fundementals go a long way my friend in the NFL draft. Something that Smith did not gain in life or at tOSU.

This is something that should play into the heisman. Character , yes I mean it even though Mr Brand, head of the NCAA, doesn't have a ton. The Student Athlete's which I am not sure play at tOSU, need to have some restraint. Maybe taking money from a booster does seemlike a big deal look at how it effects your draft. People look at that stuff because leaders do not make those decisions. If he hadn't got caught do you think he would have done it agian. Probably!!!!! So my point is he is not what bests represents to me the most valuable NCAA football player because he is not really an amatuer he got paid to play once. Guess what folks thats all it takes to lose that status. Who knows how much more money he has been given. Maurice seemed to turn out ok from tOSU. It seems Miami has a brother up north called The Ohio State U. Were is this game headed?[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that the PFW 2007 NFL Draft Book mentions, in detail, Smith's arrest for a fight with some women that resulted in one of the women going to the hospitial with a broken jaw and a car window being kicked out by TS, of tOSU, and his homies. The NFL does not miss a thing as it is a privledge to play professional football in the National Football League.

 

[southbend62]

There is NO comparison between a player coming out of the ND program and one coming out of the OSU program. Leinert, Bush, and Smith are not in the same league as Quinn. I'm not talking trash to the OSU guy who posted...since he commented on my remarks-- I'm stating a fact. Smith is not a class act. Thank you to Master Guns for validating my earlier remarks.

 

[jiggafini19]

Troy Smith will win the Heisman and it will be the biggest landslide in the history of the award.

What more needs to be said?

 

[ant80]

I have to agree there is really no "difference" that you can see between Quinn and Smith this year.

Admittedly, Troy Smith has a great surrounding cast, and you cannot deny the better running backs, offensive line. This would explain the difference in receptions our wide recievers and tight ends get in comparison and why Quinns passing stats will be much more than Smiths.

Would Quinns numbers be better if ND ran a more balanced offense in every game? Possibly. Possibly not, no reason to speculate since we will never know.

What we do know is this, Quinn's numbers and Smith's numbers aren't that different. The difference is Quinn is on the #5(BCS) team in the country while Smith is on the #1. To a normal person that isn't a fan from either side, you would give Smith the Heisman because of the accolades of the team and the individual accolades he will/has recieve(d).

Statistically, TS and BQ are not significantly different though BQ has a slight edge in the numbers. But the real difference comes in the gameplan execution during big games. While against scUM, BQ fumbled the ball and threw several interceptions, Troy didn't do anything but good against Texas.

Second difference is, with games against cupcakes, TS didn't throw for more than 200 yards usually, but has played really well against big teams. On the other hand, Brady has been throwing for over 400 yards against cupcakes.

Bad game was against Illinois where he threw for 103 yards with 0TD/1INT. Compare that to Brady's bad day.

Yes, statistically BQ might have a slight edge, but TS is hands down the better quarterback.

You can talk about character flaws all you want. It was a defining moment in TS's life. But I'll give in though. BQ has a "better" "character".

The good thing about TS is his ability to learn the team's gameplan and execute accordingly. How he shifted from a running QB to a pocket passer who can also run. He can do the same with any NFL system. He is behind linemen that are 6' 8" at OSU, and has no problems throwing the ball. I doubt he is going to play behind taller linemen in the league. So that height issue is basically moot.

 

[LuckoftheIrish86]

It didnt matter if Smith threw 5 ints in the Michigan game, if OSU won he was getting the Heisman.

Conversely it doesnt matter if Quinn throws for 500 yards and 5 Tds against USC, he may steal a few first place votes but unfortunately he will not get it

 

[southbend62]

Do you all really think it's in the bag for Smith? If Brady has a stellar day and beats USC--shouldn't that elevate him?

 

[jiggafini19]

Do you all really think it's in the bag for Smith? If Brady has a stellar day and beats USC--shouldn't that elevate him?

This will not even be close. Quinn could have the best day of his career against SC, but it is a done deal. The majority of the voters have had Troy Smith etched into their brains for too long. The numbers are there and so is a 12-0 record.

Their minds have been made up for too long.

 

[OSU_Fan14]

There is NO comparison between a player coming out of the ND program and one coming out of the OSU program. Leinert, Bush, and Smith are not in the same league as Quinn. I'm not talking trash to the OSU guy who posted...since he commented on my remarks-- I'm stating a fact. Smith is not a class act. Thank you to Master Guns for validating my earlier remarks.

Why isn't he a class act? Becuase of some bad decisions he made 2 years ago? If you look at him now, compared to then...there's a world of a difference. I'm not saying he's perfect, because nobody is. What I'm saying is that he's matured so much during these years that he is a class act. On the post game interview, the first thing he said was "First of all I'd like to give credit to my teammates, they allowed me to do what I do." To me, thats a class act. When the gameday crew asked him if he thought he was the most outstanding player in CFB, he said "I won't take that bait, becuase i can't focus on that right now, that's not something I can decide......personally I like Ted Ginn's game, I think he should win."

So saying Smith is not a class act shows you obviously don't read about him all the time and watch his interviews. Which, I can understand becuase I don't do that for BQ and the Irish. I'm not bashing anyone or flaming anyone, what I'm saying, is do some research before you make such a bold statement.

 

[marv81s]

he was acting like a politician in that interview. If you thought that was a sincere answer, I have some great property in the Everglades for you to buy. If I was on that gameday crew I would got a shovel out for the all the BS that he was spewing.

 

[scooper]

It's more than just the cel phone episode. Talk to some folks from St. Edwards, or the kid he assaulted on the basketball court, who witnesses have said did NOT use the racial slurs that Smith alleged.

That said, every person can grow up. Smith just had more growing to do than others.

This has nothing to do with his skills as a QB. He's a good one. And has improved on the field over two seasons as much as anybody in college football.

 

[njuneardave]

Yes, statistically BQ might have a slight edge, but TS is hands down the better quarterback.

ummm, If Troy Smith is the better QB, why is he not even mentioned in the top 15 slots in the NFL draft? NFL scouts aren't fooled by media hype. They have said time and time again that Quinn is by far the best talent in this class. If Smith were the QB of Notre Dame, the Irish would have 3 or 4 losses by now. If Quinn were the QB of OSU, the Buckeyes would still be undefeated. It's as simple as that. Yeah, Smith will win the Heisman, but that trophy is a popularity contest as many know. He had a great game against Michigan, and all the YAC's really made his stats look nice. If I were going to make a football team, though, I would pick Quinn over Smith without ever second-guessing. Quinn has had two incredible comebacks this year alone -- he shows poise and charisma. I've never seen Smith in the pressure situation of being down in the final minute of a game, so who knows if he would buckle.

 

[OSU_Fan14]

I've never seen Smith in the pressure situation of being down in the final minute of a game, so who knows if he would buckle.

watch the last 10 minutes of the 2005 OSU/Michigan Game........down by 2 scores, calmy leads him team 88 yards (i think) down the field to win the game.

 

[FleaFlicker]

Yeah, the Heisman is Smith's. I think he probably deserves it too. he's had a few bad games, but nothing that impacted his team. There are a bunch of things to consider here, but the only one that points to Brady is the "Most Valuable Player" aspect... which really isn't part of the heisman.

In terms of his Character, I'm glad we have Brady over Smith, any day of the week. And I think the hate from OSU towards ND is hilarious. The fact that Smith didn't even mention Quinn as one of 5 other people possibly up fot the heisman, makes me think he isn't the humble and honest guy that he thinks he is.

You ever listen to his interviews? he basically says stuff like, "I believe in humility, and that this is a team game, I couldn't have done it without my teammates... but we are the best team out there and I worked my ass off in the post-season to make myself better. I watched tons of film, and focused on being a pocket-passer. I've improved about 1000%. And I think it shows."

i.e. just "saying" you are humble, doesn't make you humble. In fact, admitting it actually makes you less humble.

 

[FleaFlicker]

watch the last 10 minutes of the 2005 OSU/Michigan Game........down by 2 scores, calmy leads him team 88 yards (i think) down the field to win the game.

He got two scores in one drive? Wow, give him TWO Heismans!

 

[jerseyborn1971]

OSU fan will never be able to admit BQ is a better all around qb. Until BQ plays for the Browns and Troy Smith is the Branch Manager at the Columbus Enterprise car rental.

Smith is 4 inches shorter than the best QB's in the NFL, half a second shorter than the fastest QB's in the NFL and isn't "humble" enough to hold a clipboard. What does this mean? Troy can get you a deal on a mid-sized sedan for the weekend.

 

[ant80]

he was acting like a politician in that interview. If you thought that was a sincere answer, I have some great property in the Everglades for you to buy. If I was on that gameday crew I would got a shovel out for the all the BS that he was spewing.

Even if what you are saying is true, it's a lot classier than Charlie Weis's comments about Tressel before last year's Fiesta bowl... You are exactly what I would call a Domer Homer.

It's more than just the cel phone episode. Talk to some folks from St. Edwards, or the kid he assaulted on the basketball court, who witnesses have said did NOT use the racial slurs that Smith alleged.

That said, every person can grow up. Smith just had more growing to do than others.

This has nothing to do with his skills as a QB. He's a good one. And has improved on the field over two seasons as much as anybody in college football.

What witnesses? Don't bring up some random BS that is completely unsubstantiated. Show some proof. I can also claim "witnesses" that say he did use racial epithets.

And in any case, that was before his emotional transformation and maturation.

Also to njuneardave, OSU is much more talented than ND is this year. Notwithstanding that, everybody on this board was saying scUM would rip TS apart like they did Brady. When that didn't happen, ND's talent level is why BQ failed against scUM. Bottomline is, BQ pads stats against cupcakes and flops against tough opponents. TS doesn't need to perform against cupcakes and performs spectacularly in big games. Just because the NFL scouts say what they're saying doesn't mean that they are right. They've been wrong plenty of times before. If TS doesn't go in the top 10, there will be 22 very eager teams waiting to sign him... just like Davie said yesterday.

 

[southbend62]

Why isn't he a class act? Becuase of some bad decisions he made 2 years ago? If you look at him now, compared to then...there's a world of a difference. I'm not saying he's perfect, because nobody is. What I'm saying is that he's matured so much during these years that he is a class act. On the post game interview, the first thing he said was "First of all I'd like to give credit to my teammates, they allowed me to do what I do." To me, thats a class act. When the gameday crew asked him if he thought he was the most outstanding player in CFB, he said "I won't take that bait, becuase i can't focus on that right now, that's not something I can decide......personally I like Ted Ginn's game, I think he should win."

So saying Smith is not a class act shows you obviously don't read about him all the time and watch his interviews. Which, I can understand becuase I don't do that for BQ and the Irish. I'm not bashing anyone or flaming anyone, what I'm saying, is do some research before you make such a bold statement.

OSU Dude---My opinion is that BQ is a class act. You are more than entitled to your opinion about TS. Since I'm posting on an ND board and I think BQ is better---I'm sticking with my remarks. No amount of convincing is going to change it. BQ is a class act. Let it go.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Just because the NFL scouts say what they're saying doesn't mean that they are right. They've been wrong plenty of times before. If TS doesn't go in the top 10, there will be 22 very eager teams waiting to sign him... just like Davie said yesterday.

LOL, he's quoting Davie! ND fans won't even do that! HAHAHAHAHA!

I'm sure Bob Davie knows more about NFL scouting then...um..well...NFL Scouts.

You do know Troy Smith is 4 inches shorter then most NFL qb's right?

"With the #1 Pick in the Former Heisman Winners with No Future in the NFL Draft, Enterprise Rental Car Management Training selects Troy Smith of THEE Ohio State Univeristy."

 

[marv81s]

Even if what you are saying is true, it's a lot classier than Charlie Weis's comments about Tressel before last year's Fiesta bowl... You are exactly what I would call a Domer Homer.



What witnesses? Don't bring up some random BS that is completely unsubstantiated. Show some proof. I can also claim "witnesses" that say he did use racial epithets.

And in any case, that was before his emotional transformation and maturation.

Also to njuneardave, OSU is much more talented than ND is this year. Notwithstanding that, everybody on this board was saying scUM would rip TS apart like they did Brady. When that didn't happen, ND's talent level is why BQ failed against scUM. Bottomline is, BQ pads stats against cupcakes and flops against tough opponents. TS doesn't need to perform against cupcakes and performs spectacularly in big games. Just because the NFL scouts say what they're saying doesn't mean that they are right. They've been wrong plenty of times before. If TS doesn't go in the top 10, there will be 22 very eager teams waiting to sign him... just like Davie said yesterday.

And you are what all of think of when we picture an iggnorant osu fan. what is with all of you osu fans coming onto irishenvy all of a sudden. Are you all nervous about the slight possibility of ND playing you guys again and you have to come on here and throw out iggnorant post and do all kinds of flaming. Why don't you all go back to your little post and go back to your pottery making classes and your other classes on "how to burn a couch without setting yourself on fire".

and your seriously going to come on here quoting bob davie? Come on dude!!

 

[Master Guns]

It's more than just the cel phone episode. Talk to some folks from St. Edwards, or the kid he assaulted on the basketball court, who witnesses have said did NOT use the racial slurs that Smith alleged.

That said, every person can grow up. Smith just had more growing to do than others.

This has nothing to do with his skills as a QB. He's a good one. And has improved on the field over two seasons as much as anybody in college football.

Too bad it won't catapult him into NFL stardom.

 

[Master Guns]

Statistically, TS and BQ are not significantly different though BQ has a slight edge in the numbers. But the real difference comes in the gameplan execution during big games. While against scUM, BQ fumbled the ball and threw several interceptions, Troy didn't do anything but good against Texas.

Second difference is, with games against cupcakes, TS didn't throw for more than 200 yards usually, but has played really well against big teams. On the other hand, Brady has been throwing for over 400 yards against cupcakes.

Bad game was against Illinois where he threw for 103 yards with 0TD/1INT. Compare that to Brady's bad day.

Yes, statistically BQ might have a slight edge, but TS is hands down the better quarterback.

You can talk about character flaws all you want. It was a defining moment in TS's life. But I'll give in though. BQ has a "better" "character".

The good thing about TS is his ability to learn the team's gameplan and execute accordingly. How he shifted from a running QB to a pocket passer who can also run. He can do the same with any NFL system. He is behind linemen that are 6' 8" at OSU, and has no problems throwing the ball. I doubt he is going to play behind taller linemen in the league. So that height issue is basically moot.

PFW Draft Edition thought that his height is an issue, usually leads to throwing off the back foot and floating the ball, which he does.

 

[ant80]

And you are what all of think of when we picture an iggnorant osu fan. what is with all of you osu fans coming onto irishenvy all of a sudden. Are you all nervous about the slight possibility of ND playing you guys again and you have to come on here and throw out iggnorant post and do all kinds of flaming. Why don't you all go back to your little post and go back to your pottery making classes and your other classes on "how to burn a couch without setting yourself on fire".

and your seriously going to come on here quoting bob davie? Come on dude!!

Lots of fire, no substance. You attack me and osu fans, but you don't make a dent in my arguement now, do you...

 

[marv81s]

I think the only piece of evidence you need to look at his Quinn's stats and Smith's and the final bit of proof will come in April on draft day and what happens after that. Your an osu fan, your always going to believe that smith is better, and I'm an ND fan and I'm always going to say Quinn is better, so I'm not going to waste any more of time arguing with you about this.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Troy Smith 199 297 2507 67.0 8.44 30 5 167.9
Brady Quinn 252 387 3004 65.1 7.76 32 5 155.0

 

[njuneardave]

Also to njuneardave, OSU is much more talented than ND is this year. Notwithstanding that, everybody on this board was saying scUM would rip TS apart like they did Brady. When that didn't happen, ND's talent level is why BQ failed against scUM. Bottomline is, BQ pads stats against cupcakes and flops against tough opponents. TS doesn't need to perform against cupcakes and performs spectacularly in big games. Just because the NFL scouts say what they're saying doesn't mean that they are right. They've been wrong plenty of times before. If TS doesn't go in the top 10, there will be 22 very eager teams waiting to sign him... just like Davie said yesterday.

OSU more talented than Notre Dame? Agreed. I never argued that. Stick to the point.

I never said UM was going to beat OSU. I bet that less than 50% of the people thought that -- however, we were all HOPING UM would rip OSU apart so that we could gain entrance into the NC. There is a difference between hoping a team loses and declaring that a team is going to lose. Quit trying to skew information to justify your points -- be honest; we aren't idiots.

Actually, as you know, Notre Dame's SOS has been rated much higher than OSU's. Quinn has superior stats, but an inferior offensive line. How many times has Quinn been sacked this year? Alot. How many have been coverage sacks? Very few. Compare that to Smith. I didn't see Quinn flop against USC last year... he did well against OSU this year. His 3 INT's against UM are skewed b/c the first was a tipped pass that should've been caught, and the 3rd was a desparation heave. I'm not saying Brady played well against UM, I'm saying that it wasn't as some portray it to be considering the lack of protection.

If TS doesn't go in the top 10, there will be 22 very eager teams waiting to sign him... just like Davie said yesterday.

We will see. Let's see who is the better QB in 5 years. .... or at least... who still plays QB in 5 years (and who is left quoting Uncle Rico in sports pub)

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Lots of fire, no substance. You attack me and osu fans, but you don't make a dent in my arguement now, do you...

People have put more dents in your argument on this post then in any car with Michigan plates in the Horse Shoe parking lot.

You're in dream world if you believe Troy Smith is going higher in the draft then Brady Quinn. Please don't be shocked on draft day when you don't hear his name. He's a great college quarterback don't get me wrong. But he's Charlie Ward, without the basketball talent.

Oh, you can't claim to be attacked when you come on an ND board spouting off about how Troy Smith is better than Brady Quinn. Any response would be called a "counter attack". I know it's a big word, but try to keep up. If you don't want to be "attacked" then go to an OSU site.

I am auditioning for a new DANCING HATER MONKEY since Victors Valiant has left. One of your OSU breathren is leading right now, but you could be right in there. You're ridiculous arguments have been pretty good. Let me hear more of your hate and I'll let you know if you've been selected.

Now c'mon little guy, DANCE MONKEY DANCE!

 

[ant80]

Now c'mon little guy, DANCE MONKEY DANCE!

Just look in the mirror...

I think the only piece of evidence you need to look at his Quinn's stats and Smith's and the final bit of proof will come in April on draft day and what happens after that. Your an osu fan, your always going to believe that smith is better, and I'm an ND fan and I'm always going to say Quinn is better, so I'm not going to waste any more of time arguing with you about this.

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
Troy Smith 199 297 2507 67.0 8.44 30 5 167.9
Brady Quinn 252 387 3004 65.1 7.76 32 5 155.0

Right. Just compare the Yards per attempt, pass eficiency, completion % and # or attempts, and you'll notice the difference.

 

[tedwick]

Basically, it comes down to what voters think the heisman embodies. Is it the best player in college football? Is it the most valuable player in college football? Or is it the best player on the best team? Is it who has the best stats? The best games? The best wins? The "best" poor performances?

Right now, Troy Smith is the best player on the best team. He's not the most valuable player, nor the best player. Probably not even the best quarterback (Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy probably both edge him out on that one). But he's on a team that won't lose. His bad games haven't been noticed because his team played well enough to win, whereas other candidates haven't had that luxury. Had Quinn thrown 2 interceptions and one TD against Penn State, ND probably would have lost. TS has two quality wins in Michigan and Texas, again, probably buoyed by his team, specifically his bestial OLine, Ginn, and Gonzalez. And rewarding the best player on the best team seems to be the Heisman voters' prerogative. Personally, I don't think a guy that took money from boosters should be eligible. If you're going to play college football, you need to play by ALL the rules. (Yes, this means Reggie Bush, too.) But hey, I'm not voting.

Remember, the greatest quarterback arguably of all time didn't win the heisman. Nobody ever held that against Joe Cool. The guy who won it Joe's senior year? Charles White of USC. The next award he won was "NFL Comeback Player of the Year - 1987". He ended up appearing on American Gladiators. (ohhhhh... snap?)

 

[Master Guns]

OSU fan will never be able to admit BQ is a better all around qb. Until BQ plays for the Browns and Troy Smith is the Branch Manager at the Columbus Enterprise car rental.

Smith is 4 inches shorter than the best QB's in the NFL, half a second shorter than the fastest QB's in the NFL and isn't "humble" enough to hold a clipboard. What does this mean? Troy can get you a deal on a mid-sized sedan for the weekend.

THAT WAS FRIGGIN AWESOME!!!! GREAT POST!!!

 

[OSU_Fan14]

Right now, Troy Smith is the best player on the best team. He's not the most valuable player, nor the best player. Probably not even the best quarterback (Brady Quinn and Colt McCoy probably both edge him out on that one).

Give me a break.....Colt McCoy? You can't be serious. Colt hasn't beaten anyone good all year.....I'm not sure Oklahoma counts, but it's his best win.

But he's on a team that won't lose. His bad games haven't been noticed because his team played well enough to win, whereas other candidates haven't had that luxury. Had Quinn thrown 2 interceptions and one TD against Penn State, ND probably would have lost. TS has two quality wins in Michigan and Texas, again, probably buoyed by his team, specifically his bestial OLine, Ginn, and Gonzalez.

He's had 1 maybe 2 bad games.....the only truley bad game was Illinois. Smith excelled against a team that Quinn severely struggled against.

 

[punishment]

Why are OSU fans so obsessed with ND. OSU beats Michigan, and then they throw jabs at ND. WTF?

Are there no couches left to occupy your time?