Now HERE is some media bias

[maison bleu]

ESPN analyst and O$U alum Kirk Herbstreit rips Michigan. I think he's been sitting next to Corso too long.


From the Detroit News:

The big game is more than two weeks away, but because of the potential matchup of No. 1 Ohio State versus No. 2 Michigan, the talk already has started.

Here are some excerpts from Kirk Herbstreit on his radio show Monday afternoon on "The Big Show" on WBNS 1460 in Columbus. Herbstreit, a former Ohio State quarterback, is a well-respected college football television analyst:

# On the Michigan defense: "I personally don't think their defense, the way Ohio State will spread them out, can just dominate the game and shut Ohio State down."

# On Michigan not being able to score enough points to beat OSU: "The way they look right now, I don't think anybody can see that.

"(Receiver) Mario Manningham coming back, one guy doesn't make a big difference in most cases, but the reason it does in Michigan's case is because it's like a domino effect.

"If Manningham's able to come back and be the player that he was before the injury, (receiver Adrian) Arrington can go back to doing what he does, instead of being the go-to guy.

"(Receiver Steve) Breaston can go back to whatever he's doing these days, if they could ever find a way to actually apply him in the offense. He's worthless in my mind, outside of returning a few punts. I'll say that, and he'll end up winning the game for them on Nov. 18. But he hasn't done anything since his freshman year."

# On what would happen today if U-M and OSU met: "If those two teams were to play right now, just the way they're playing, I don't even think it would be close. Ohio State not only wins that game the way they're playing right now, maybe by a few scores."

# On Michigan's fans not sticking around for last Saturday's game against Northwestern: "If you're a Michigan fan, honestly, help me to understand, you have a team that is No. 2 in the country, you only get a chance to see them play at home six or seven times and you bail in the second quarter?"

 

[marv81s]

so where's the bias? i think he is spot on with everything that he says.

 

[isotopes]

I think he makes a good point about Breaston, and I think (if fans left the game early) that too is ridiculous, but the rest I can see being a bias.

I think the Mich D matches up well against tOSU and im very interested to see if Troy can get anything done this year vs teams with an above average def (or in this years case any defense.)

They definately need Manningham back and at full strength. I just don't see another receiver on the team thats proven to be more than a #2 for this year.

I personally think michigan wins, but then again I figured on scar and georgia last week so what do i know....

 

[Aerosmith777]

First of all, cut Herbstreit a little slack, he is an OSU alum after all. Desmond Howard isn't the most objective analyst when it comes to Michigan on that show either.

secondly, most of his comments didn't seem too bad to me. He said he didn't think Michigan's D could shut down OSU offense, and neither do I. And not b/c UM's D is bad by any means, I just don't think any defense could totally shut down OSU this year. And I agree w/ most of the stuff on Maningham, you need him back for that game for the offense to click.

Saying OSU will win by multiple scores, and saying there's no way you can see UM's offense scoring enough points on this OSU defense is more than a bit homer-ish though. I'll definetely buy he went too far w/ those statement.

For the record, I think OSU will win the game, but mostly b/c they're at home. Were it in Michigan, I wouldn't be so sure, and would probly give the slight edge to UM. So since I just said that, get ready for a sweet sweet Wolverine victory Michigan fans...lol...

 

[tommy]

i think herby is the only one on the whole channel that tells it how it is .

 

[jsully84]

i think herby is the only one on the whole channel that tells it how it is .

Defintitely agree with that Tommy. Herbie doesn't shove tOSU down the viewers throats and gives good, unbiased analysis.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I like Herbstreit too, but he was a just a tad too much on this one. I don't think OSU's offense is too much for Michigan. Did he not watch the Penn St game. 2 offensive td's and 1 of those was a garbage scramble and heave job.

I don't think either of these teams win by multiple scores.

Desmond is much more of a Homer though. Herby is usually pretty spot on.

 

[marv81s]

Saying OSU will win by multiple scores, and saying there's no way you can see UM's offense scoring enough points on this OSU defense is more than a bit homer-ish though.

He said On what would happen today if U-M and OSU met: "If those two teams were to play right now, just the way they're playing, I don't even think it would be close. Ohio State not only wins that game the way they're playing right now, maybe by a few scores."

How is that homerish? Based on each teams last performance how can you disagree with him? You see Mich struggle to get 17 on a bad NW team and OSU blow out minnestota. Or compare each teams performance against Penn State and Iowa. How can you disagee with him? I f'n hate giving osu any credit and picking them to win any game, but I think if the game were to happen this saturday at osu, the bucks would win that game by double digits. Believe me, this isn't easy for me to say it. OSU is easily #2 on my list of most hated teams, but what D can slow them down right now? Mich's is good, but I don't think they have the horses. Herbstreet is by far the most fair minded analyst in college ball.

 

[leppycole]

As much as I despise ESPN's Love for Ohio St. and influencing the Heisman Voters to give the trophy to troy smith today - I think Herbie is not way off. If Mich beats OHio St. I do think the ESPN crew will do anything they can to secure a rematch in the Championship game.

 

[tedwick]

How is that homerish? Based on each teams last performance how can you disagree with him? You see Mich struggle to get 17 on a bad NW team and OSU blow out minnestota. Or compare each teams performance against Penn State and Iowa. How can you disagee with him? I f'n hate giving osu any credit and picking them to win any game, but I think if the game were to happen this saturday at osu, the bucks would win that game by double digits. Believe me, this isn't easy for me to say it. OSU is easily #2 on my list of most hated teams, but what D can slow them down right now? Mich's is good, but I don't think they have the horses. Herbstreet is by far the most fair minded analyst in college ball.

If you compare the offense in the NW or the PennState game to the ND game, Michigan really has two faces. One for the teams they think they're going to have a hard time with, and one for the cupcakes. The Michigan offense for the ND was much more complex than anything seen against any other team this year. They'll open up the playbook for OSU. I think UMich will actually pull this one out. Michigan's defense is GOOD.

 

[maison bleu]

If you compare the offense in the NW or the PennState game to the ND game, Michigan really has two faces. One for the teams they think they're going to have a hard time with, and one for the cupcakes. The Michigan offense for the ND was much more complex than anything seen against any other team this year. They'll open up the playbook for OSU. I think UMich will actually pull this one out. Michigan's defense is GOOD.

Exactly. Oooyd played it really close to the vest against Vandy and CMU, then opened it up against ND. I was SHOCKED to see Manningham go over the top so easily. If they could do it against ND, they could have done it to CMU.

Mannningham, the top two tightends, and a starting O-Lineman have missed time, and this has slowed down the offense a bit. But to some degree, I think Oooyd is playing possum. They're not even trying to throw the ball down the field.

5 of the 6 computers rank Michigan #1, for whatever that's worth. Unlike Herby, at least they're objective.

 

[tedwick]

computers just rank the teams with different criteria. There's a reason the computers don't agree either...

 

[WalshND]

I think Herby is spot on. If Ohio State and Michigan were to play this Saturday, I think Ohio State takes that game by at least 10 points. Michigan really seemed to struggle at times last week against Northwestern. I'm no fan of either program, and yes I think they are the number one and two teams in the nation. But the gap between the two programs is huge.

 

[domerfor life]

I think Herby is spot on. If Ohio State and Michigan were to play this Saturday, I think Ohio State takes that game by at least 10 points. Michigan really seemed to struggle at times last week against Northwestern. I'm no fan of either program, and yes I think they are the number one and two teams in the nation. But the gap between the two programs is huge.

OSU is about 10-14 points better than UM "right now". Michigan is getting by on defense and the run game. However.......I would not be surprised to see a similar gameplan as we saw in the ND game. I think they caught ND totally offguard. Now, I don't think they will catch OSU offguard, but if Manningham is back at full strength it will be a much closer game. It's at OSU, so I think the Buckeyes pull it out.

 

[jiggafini19]

I can agree with most of what he says.

I thought Breaston being banged up last year had a lot to do with his having a "down" year. I expected a big year of him, but instead this Manningham fellow has emerged.

Again, I look at two factors: Troy Smith and the game being played in Columbus. These two things should put tOSU over the top.

I think both defenses are very good, but nationally I've been seeing more about Michigan's greatness than tOSU's. tOSU's offense seems to get the bulk of the love, while Mike Hart is the glue that holds Michigan together in my mind.

Very interesting game. And they may play a second one in January. Fox has the BCS package this year. No way do they let the UL/WVU winner play the winner of this game. For those TV ratings to be viable, they'll need the Big Ten winner vs. the SEC champ.

I"m sure Fox has the BCS by the balls like they do Bud Selig and MLB. They've sunk a ton of money into both.

 

[tedwick]

You can't really buy the bcs rankings... it's just a bunch of rankings compiled from other sources. and the thing that determines the championship game is the bcs rankings.

just because fox has the tv rights to the games (they do?) doesn't mean that they have much influence on the matchups, especially the championship one. It's more a function of conference-bowl tie-ins, bcs rankings, and who the bowls think will draw a crowd. fox doesn't have a whole lot of say in any of those.

 

[jiggafini19]

tedwick:

For the amount of money that Fox has put up for this, you really think they want to see Ohio State play Louisville for the title?

How about Ohio State and Florida instead? Or one of the biggest rivalries in college football rematch in a bowl game?

I can only give you my cynical opinion, but I'm telling you right now that Fox does NOT want that to happen. And for the money they're paying for the rights to this, you'd better believe they're going to want to stay happy.

 

[jiggafini19]

Games in January, BTW:

Outback Tampa, Fla. Jan. 1, 11 a.m. ESPN HD

AT&T Cotton Dallas Jan. 1, 11:30 a.m. FOX

Toyota Gator Jacksonville, Fla. Jan. 1, 1 p.m. CBS

Capital One Orlando, Fla. Jan. 1, 1 p.m. ABC HD

Rose Pasadena, Calif. Jan. 1, 5 p.m. ABC HD

Tostitos Fiesta Glendale, Ariz. Jan. 1, 8 p.m. FOX

FedEx Orange Miami Jan. 2, 8 p.m. FOX

Allstate Sugar New Orleans Jan. 3, 8 p.m. FOX

International Toronto, Canada Jan. 6, Noon ESPN2 HD

GMAC Mobile, Ala. Jan. 7, 8 p.m. ESPN HD

BCS Championship Game Glendale, Ariz. Jan. 8, 8 p.m. FOX

 

[tedwick]

I'm just saying, there isn't really even a mechanism through which FOX could manipulate who gets put in the championship game. Now, it's debatable whether pollsters will put WVA or Louisville above other teams and into the #2 spot, but there's no "what the sponsor wants" section in the BCS rankings. the formula and all the data that goes into the formula is pretty public. there would have to be A LOT of manipulation going on, with multiple 3rd parties to pull off something like you are suggesting.

Remember, winner of the Big East makes it to the BCS automatically. So all this talk is about the championship game. And if the BCS formula gives Louisville or WVA the #2 spot, they're playing in Glendale whether FOX likes it or not.

 

[maison bleu]

computers just rank the teams with different criteria. There's a reason the computers don't agree either...

I'd say 5 of 6 is pretty good agreement.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

The best part of the OSU-UM game is one of them HAS to lose. Both teams' fans view their team as unbeatable, so there will definitely be some bruised and battered egos.

I'll be watching a game with a group that is split down the middle. I am literally the only non UM/OSU fan there. I can just sit back and watch them rip each other apart. And the hosts are a married couple, 1 UM and 1 OSU. How did that happen?

 

[maison bleu]

I can agree with most of what he says.

I thought Breaston being banged up last year had a lot to do with his having a "down" year. I expected a big year of him, but instead this Manningham fellow has emerged.

Again, I look at two factors: Troy Smith and the game being played in Columbus. These two things should put tOSU over the top.

I think both defenses are very good, but nationally I've been seeing more about Michigan's greatness than tOSU's. tOSU's offense seems to get the bulk of the love, while Mike Hart is the glue that holds Michigan together in my mind.

Very interesting game. And they may play a second one in January. Fox has the BCS package this year. No way do they let the UL/WVU winner play the winner of this game. For those TV ratings to be viable, they'll need the Big Ten winner vs. the SEC champ.

I"m sure Fox has the BCS by the balls like they do Bud Selig and MLB. They've sunk a ton of money into both.

This guy makes a lot of good points:

I’m now going to attempt to do the impossible, and without a net, and try to convince you that Ohio State might not be the number one team in the country. Note the word might. Before your head explodes, Buckeye fans, I voted Ohio State in the top spot and do believe this is the best team in America. With that said …

10. 2005 USC, 2002 Miami and 2000 Florida State
In 2000, everyone handed the red-hot Florida State Seminoles the national title before playing Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. The Sooners won 13-2. The 2002 Miami team was being hailed as an unstoppable juggernaut before losing to Ohio State in the classic 2003 Fiesta Bowl. ESPN ran a whole series on how the 2005 USC team was the greatest team ever before Vince the Longhorns had other ideas. Of course, you surely remember how the 2003 Oklahoma team couldn’t be beaten until Kansas State applied a 35-7 whupping in the Big 12 title game. If one thing is constant in college football, it’s that things almost never go according to form. Just ask Ohio State because ...

9. We've seen this before
The 1998 team was better than the 2006 version, but it lost in a shocking upset to Michigan State. The 1996 team was a juggernaut that had the national title there for the taking before losing to Michigan at home. The 1995, 1979, 1975, 1973, 1970, and 1969 teams were all, arguably, better than this one, and they couldn’t close late in the year. Obviously this is a different team with a different coaching staff in a different era, but as good as it is, we’re not talking about a killer on the all-time scale. Could this team beat the 2005 version that lost two games? It’s debatable.

8. Run defense
NIU’s Garrett Wolfe ran for 171 yards against OSU in the opener. Texas, who for some reason abandoned the ground game in the 24-7 loss in September, rumbled for 172, and Penn State’s Tony Hunt ran for 135 yards. The Buckeyes would’ve beaten Michigan State no matter what, but it didn’t help Sparty that it was without Javon Ringer. The stats are misleading since most teams get down against TOSU (The Ohio State University) and have to start chucking it, but that doesn’t mean a good running game wouldn’t work against a solid, but not impenetrable, defensive front. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Buckeyes had to deal with a team with a phenomenal running game like West Virginia, Clemson, Arkansas or …

7. Wisconsin
Part of the nastiness of playing in a big-time league is having to sidestep several landmines. Wisconsin might not be better than Ohio State, but it’s growing into one of the Big Ten's best teams as the season has gone on. Forget the sleepwalking performance against Illinois, the Badgers have the defense (ranked seventh in the nation and second against the pass), and the running game that could’ve given OSU a fight … if they played. The Buckeyes miss Purdue and Wisconsin this year off the Big Ten schedule.

6. The offense has only faced two defenses with a pulse
Troy Smith was magnificent against Texas and struggled against Penn State. It’s one thing to beat a top defense once in a while, and it’s another to face good defenses week in and week out. No one outside of the Longhorns or Nittany Lions had the line or the pass rush to generate any sort of pressure on the future Heisman winner. Granted, Smith's mobility has allowed him to get out of dangerous situations, but …

5. The Big Ten isn’t exactly the SEC this season
Florida has had to face the nation’s No. 1 (LSU), No. 14 (Georgia), No. 18 (Alabama), No. 24 (Auburn), and No. 31 (Tennessee) defenses, and still has to face the No. 37 (South Carolina) and No. 16 (Florida State) Ds. Would Ohio State beat all those teams? In a one game shot, I think so, but ask the Gators about the cumulative effect of playing a nasty defense week in and week out. Ask LSU what it's like to play road games at Florida, at Auburn, at Tennessee and at Arkansas.

4. The best wide receivers quarterbacks the Buckeyes faced were …
As far as the receivers, the two best were Limas Sweed of Texas and James Hardy of Indiana. Quarterback-wise, Colt McCoy has improved by leaps and bounds since the September 9th game and is making far better decisions, but he wasn't nearly as good in the early meeting with OSU. Drew Tate and Drew Stanton have been major disappointments. That’s it as far as the decent quarterbacks the Buckeyes have faced, not to mention the receivers. We still haven’t seen what the secondary can do against a team with a high-octane passing attack like Tennessee, Notre Dame, Louisville, or just about anyone in the Pac 10. It’s not a stretch to suggest that Penn State would’ve won on September 23rd if it had a mature, developed big-game quarterback.

3. The Texas and Iowa wins might not have been that great
Remember, we’re just talking theory here. Ohio State cemented its spot at number one after impressive performances at Texas and Iowa. As it turns out, Iowa is totally average, and Texas, while improved since earlier in the year (as is Ohio State), got bombed on by Baylor and Texas Tech and came within an eyelash of losing at Nebraska. Fine, so Texas really is good, and that 24-7 win in Austin is the best by anyone so far this year, but that’s the only truly impressive victory on the résumé, and will be until the Michigan game.

2. The BCS computers
The cold, calculating, unfeeling, uncaring computers in the BCS formula are supposed to take all subjectivity out of the equation. How many of the six have Ohio State No. 1? One. Who’s number one in five of the six polls? …

1. Michigan
If you’re going to give Ohio State the benefit of the doubt and say it doesn’t blow out the decent teams (Bowling Green, Michigan State, Indiana and Minnesota don’t count) because that's not its style, then the same has to be said for Michigan. Run defense? No. 1 in America allowing just 28 yards per game. Wisconsin? Win, 27-13. Impressive road win? 47-21 over Notre Dame in a game that wasn’t even that close. If Ohio State is No. 1 in the nation, then Michigan is No. 1A. Fortunately, November 18th is just around the corner.

 

[tedwick]

I'd say 5 of 6 is pretty good agreement.

Just because 5/6 computers have Michigan at #1 doesn't mean they're the best team in the country. the computers are just another metric.

you'll notice that OSU is a unanimous #1 in the USA Today poll and 63/65 first place votes in the AP Poll. As a counterpoint, I'd say 63/63 and 63/65 is a pretty good agreement.

Not really sure what you were getting at by pointing out that Michigan was #1 in 5/6 computer rankings, but i don't think that statistic means what you think it means. there is no correct, unfailing method to rank football teams.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Some of those are true, but some can be applied to UM as well. Don't get me started on the SEC and UF, I'll have another "episode".

UM-OSU is a toss up at this point. There is nothing that could happen in that game that would shock me. A year ago I would openly be rooting for UM. Unfortunately, aside from maison bleu and a very few others, UM fans have been so obnoxious I can't root for them either anymore.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Impressive road win? 47-21 over Notre Dame in a game that wasn’t even that close.

Yeah, but Notre Dame sucks, remember? Overrated, remember? Or is the win only impressive when it suits Michigan's cause?

 

[maison bleu]

Just because 5/6 computers have Michigan at #1 doesn't mean they're the best team in the country. the computers are just another metric.

you'll notice that OSU is a unanimous #1 in the USA Today poll and 63/65 first place votes in the AP Poll. As a counterpoint, I'd say 63/63 and 63/65 is a pretty good agreement.

Not really sure what you were getting at by pointing out that Michigan was #1 in 5/6 computer rankings, but i don't think that statistic means what you think it means. there is no correct, unfailing method to rank football teams.

I was just offering that bit about the computer polls as counter-evidence to Homer Herbstriet's argument that O$U would beat Michigan by two scores.

I don't mean to make too much of the computers, but I don't ignore them, either. Sometimes they can open your eyes.

Here's the top 15 according to the computer portion of the BCS rankings
1. Michigan
2. O$U
3. Cal
4. Florida
5. NOTRE DAME
6. USC
7. Auburn
8. Rutgers
9. Louisville
10. Tennesee
11. Boise State
12. Texas
13. West Virginia
14. Arkansas
15. Wisconsin

Definitely an alternate reality.

 

[rontdtarchala]

I like that ranking...don't think we are 5 but I like it...I don't like osu but I despize the skunkbears so I have to go with osu...in a perfect world they would both lose....

 

[tedwick]

heh, if only those were the actual rankings : )

i agree that the computers are definitely something to look at. as a geek, i've always admired being able to pull order from data. But, for instance, from my non-silicon viewpoint, I don't think that ND is the 5th best team in College Football.

It certainly is an alternate reality. I think that the truth lies somewhere in between.

And just to go on record, I'm pulling for Michigan to beat OSU. Sure, they are the skunkbears, but this is skunkbears versus pure, undilluted college football evil!