Now that Iraq is in shambles....

[TheIrishHammer]

All of what I just said completely refutes the idea that I'm racist. A racist wouldn't bother to argue that he/she isn't.

And lastly, I don't really believe in racism. I don't think it really exists anymore, but people are told throughout their educational life how horrible white people are and how "somewhere" racism is ubiquitous. But I've never been to that "somewhere" and I've been through states like Alabama and Mississippi, and I found that the race relations there are a lot less uptight than they are up north. Likewise, I'm betting you're from the north, because northerners throw around the term 'racist' like candy and undermine the power of the word.

Well. no. Some racists are proud of hanging their opinions from a tree and others prefer to hide behind the 1st Amendment, but I've always felt that racism is discovered, not declared.

And the fact that you feel racism doen't exist makes me feel that perhaps you're thinking on 2 cylinders of an 8 cylinder truck. When you see a black woman, what do you see?

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Well. no. Some racists are proud of hanging their opinions from a tree and others prefer to hide behind the 1st Amendment, but I've always felt that racism is discovered, not declared.

Okay, well, when was the last time you ever heard of a lynching?

And the fact that you feel racism doen't exist makes me feel that perhaps you're thinking on 2 cylinders of an 8 cylinder truck. When you see a black woman, what do you see?

I should quote Stephen Colbert here "I'm color-blind", lol.

No, you're right racism still exists.. but I should have clarified what I was saying. When the perception of how racist our society supposedly is, is compared to reality........ there really is no racism. In fact, we're probably in the negative column that's how crazy things are. The problem is that we hear about racism far too much. And it's probably more often that white people are bringing it up, which I think is pretty odd. They tend to be of the liberal variety and as such, they are often hypocritical.

So here's where the hypocrisy plays its role: by raising the issue of race as often as liberals do, they perpetuate racism. Honestly, if I had been raised on my own devices and hadn't been surrounded throughout my education with the topic of racism, that black woman you spoke of----well, she'd just be another woman. But the topic is always on people's minds, which makes her a black woman. And why? Because there are always liberals raising that fact.

I don't give a damn about race, which is why I'm so cynical of supposed "racist" acts whenever they arise. For instance, I was once in saturday school because of my tardies and I was talking to a girl and I asked her why she was in.. her answer? "Because I'm black. No rich, white Jewish boys ever have to come in"

No, it's not because you're black. And no, it's not because you aren't Jewish, it's because you didn't wake your ass up on time, just like me.

When my brother was 16 he got a job at a Krogers grocery store. And anyway, after he worked the cash register he would bag their items. But on this one particular day the line was so long that to hurry it up, he had the customers bag their own items - in some places that might be odd, but around here it's a common practice. So about the 5th woman in line notices that he didn't bag her items for her and starts calling him a racist... that my friend is ridiculous.

And then, when I was at Walmart once with my sister buying the DVD "Heat" (badass movie, had to bring it up) we were waiting in line and these black girls behind us were making fun of my sister's jeans. If we were black, my guess is they wouldn't have said a thing. If the roles were reversed---if a black girl were being made fun of by white girls for the jeans she was wearing, it would be an act of racism and the NAACP would be coming into town raising hell and all-the-while, white people would be burying their heads in the sand.

There's a double standard. If black people decide to pick on white people, there's nothing special about it. If white people pick on black people, it's racism. Well sometimes people are just complete ass-holes and sometimes, it just so happens that the subject is a different race from the complete dick. So we call it racism when a black person is the "victim" and we don't call it anything when a white person goes through it.

In this country you can only have the label of "racist" if you're white. It's a requirement because apparently, if you aren't white, you can't be racist.

It's unfair and delusional.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

Okay, well, when was the last time you ever heard of a lynching?



I should quote Stephen Colbert here "I'm color-blind", lol.

No, you're right racism still exists.. but I should have clarified what I was saying. When the perception of how racist our society supposedly is, is compared to reality........ there really is no racism. In fact, we're probably in the negative column that's how crazy things are. The problem is that we hear about racism far too much. And it's probably more often that white people are bringing it up, which I think is pretty odd. They tend to be of the liberal variety and as such, they are often hypocritical.

So here's where the hypocrisy plays its role: by raising the issue of race as often as liberals do, they perpetuate racism. Honestly, if I had been raised on my own devices and hadn't been surrounded throughout my education with the topic of racism, that black woman you spoke of----well, she'd just be another woman. But the topic is always on people's minds, which makes her a black woman. And why? Because there are always liberals raising that fact.

I don't give a damn about race, which is why I'm so cynical of supposed "racist" acts whenever they arise. For instance, I was once in saturday school because of my tardies and I was talking to a girl and I asked her why she was in.. her answer? "Because I'm black. No rich, white Jewish boys ever have to come in"

No, it's not because you're black. And no, it's not because you aren't Jewish, it's because you didn't wake your ass up on time, just like me.

When my brother was 16 he got a job at a Krogers grocery store. And anyway, after he worked the cash register he would bag their items. But on this one particular day the line was so long that to hurry it up, he had the customers bag their own items - in some places that might be odd, but around here it's a common practice. So about the 5th woman in line notices that he didn't bag her items for her and starts calling him a racist... that my friend is ridiculous.

And then, when I was at Walmart once with my sister buying the DVD "Heat" (badass movie, had to bring it up) we were waiting in line and these black girls behind us were making fun of my sister's jeans. If we were black, my guess is they wouldn't have said a thing. If the roles were reversed---if a black girl were being made fun of by white girls for the jeans she was wearing, it would be an act of racism and the NAACP would be coming into town raising hell and all-the-while, white people would be burying their heads in the sand.

There's a double standard. If black people decide to pick on white people, there's nothing special about it. If white people pick on black people, it's racism. Well sometimes people are just complete ass-holes and sometimes, it just so happens that the subject is a different race from the complete dick. So we call it racism when a black person is the "victim" and we don't call it anything when a white person goes through it.

In this country you can only have the label of "racist" if you're white. It's a requirement because apparently, if you aren't white, you can't be racist.

It's unfair and delusional.

I like how you think, you racist fuck. Are you sure you've never met Charles?

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Who is Charles?

Charles Manson? ....... w/e.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

Who is Charles?

Charles Manson? ....... w/e.

W/E? Internet shorthand just lost you points.

Charles is known. He's a bit fruity, but he's known.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

So is it Charles Manson you're talking about or isn't it?

 

[TheIrishHammer]

So is it Charles Manson you're talking about or isn't it?

Why would it matter? if words conflict/agree with you, does it matter the source?

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I get the idea this is going to be another one of those threads that get shut down.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, you're not willing to discuss either the principles of Islam or the status of racism in America without reverting to name-calling. I suppose that's just how close-minded some people are. I'm always willing to admit when I've lost a debate, but we havn't entered one yet. So far, I've been sharing the depth of my opinions and no one is trying to refute them because they prefer to call me names.

As for the nature of debate itself, I always place myself on the winning side for the future. So win I lose, I change my opinion so I won't lose again. It's not a win-loss thing either, I just like knowing I'm right. And on this issue, I may very well be in the wrong, but like I said no one has been willing to say anything suggesting I'm not right.

 

[Dannyboy Ayers]

another racism thread? Did someone call somebody articulate? LOL

The LOL is for you THI..

 

[TheIrishHammer]

Hmmmm.....and I'm not a proponent of internet humming, fer sher.

If the shutting down of threads you're involved in is common place I have to assume (since I'm a newbie, and ignorant to previous ignorance) this is based on your ignoring any opposing opinions proferred.

Si' or no?

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

IrishHammer, are you ready for another double-standard?

Here it goes: so there's a black kid in the computer lab at my high school and I notice he's wearing one of those combs in his hair. What does it say on it?

Well, it's black and it's got this big "B" etched onto it. And the shape of the comb at the top is a clenched fist. That my friend, is racism, pure and simple. But no one will ever bother to point that out to him.

Now if my hair were curly, which it isn't, and if I became retarded one day and decided to wear one of those combs in my hair and it was white with a "88" etched on, would it be any less racist?

The difference is that the white person would have to answer to it. The black person wouldn't.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Hmmmm.....and I'm not a proponent of internet humming, fer sher.

If the shutting down of threads you're involved in is common place I have to assume (since I'm a newbie, and ignorant to previous ignorance) this is based on your ignoring any opposing opinions proferred.

Si' or no?

You really havn't approached any topic... all you've done is post something your friend said about Iraq which had nothing to do with racism or Islam, the subjects in contest at the moment.

So maybe you should..I don't know, think of something to write that deals with the subject matter. That's sort of the point of language, you know, communicating ideas.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

IrishHammer, are you ready for another double-standard?

Here it goes: so there's a black kid in the computer lab at my high school and I notice he's wearing one of those combs in his hair. What does it say on it?

Well, it's black and it's got this big "B" etched onto it. And the shape of the comb at the top is a clenched fist. That my friend, is racism, pure and simple. But no one will ever bother to point that out to him.

Now if my hair were curly, which it isn't, and if I became retarded one day and decided to wear one of those combs in my hair and it was white with a "88" etched on, would it be any less racist?

The difference is that the white person would have to answer to it. The black person wouldn't.

I'm sorry, chappy, but you'll have to point to the post where I disagree with your opine.

Sometimes people lock onto a thought and ignore other influences, Pog Mo thoin.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

You really havn't approached any topic... all you've done is post something your friend said about Iraq which had nothing to do with racism or Islam, the subjects in contest at the moment.

So maybe you should..I don't know, think of something to write that deals with the subject matter. That's sort of the point of language, you know, communicating ideas.

I understand that your acknowleding a loss of argument can be disturbing to an Irish Blackthorn such as yourself, but you've been swayed by Bushmills............it happens.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I'm sorry, chappy, but you'll have to point to the post where I disagree with your opine.

You're confusing the hell out of me. You called me, and I quote, a "racist fuck" for speaking of ideas which you apparently "don't disagree" with.

Pog Mo thoin.

I'm straight, thank you. It's kind of a weird request to ask of a minor over the internet, you think?

Oh and uh, you're missing two accent marks, btw. Maybe you should find a different cheap-ass Gaelic phrasebook or something.

 

[TheIrishHammer]

You're confusing the hell out of me. You called me, and I quote, a "racist fuck" for speaking of ideas which you apparently "don't disagree" with.



I'm straight, thank you. It's kind of a weird request to ask of a minor over the internet, you think?

Oh and uh, you're missing two accent marks, btw.

I suppose you'll have to go back and interpret cyber, as I was agreeing with you, dummy, but I am always in favor of smacking around those with inflated opinions of self-importance.

 

[tedwick]

Ha, yeah, it is to say that they havn't become sectarian.

There's nothing wrong with realizing that a certain religion is barbaric and fraudulent. You choose a religion. It's not like race.

If somebody aspires to be Muhammed.....they've got some serious character issues.

And I'm not suggesting I want to see Muslims hurt, I wouldn't for the life of me want for that to happen. I just disagree very strongly with the religion, just as I disagree very strongly with other idiotic, bigotous concepts like Nazism.

So, is being bigotous of a bigotous concept really bigotry? If it is, then I accept the title with pride.

you're not bigotous of a bigotous concept. you're just simpleminded, and belive whatever you see on fucking fox news. islam is anything but a violent religion, which you somehow haven't gotten through your head. all the violence you see? it's by that pesky one percent that can't accept others, that are so deluded that they think that they're better than others because of what they believe. the sectarian violence you see inbetween the factions is just like catholics v. protestants in ireland. it's definitely not just islam that has sectarian violence. and the whole islam vs. judaism thing? don't think that catholicism hasn't done that. it's called "the crusades". look it up.

for whatever reason, you think that islam is fraudulent and barbaric. if it's the sectarian violence, then i think you need to reconsider your chosen religion, because it certainly has violent sects. and with regards to its fraudulent nature, transcribing the voice of god is at least more plausible than actually being the son of god. you compared islam to nazism. lest we forget, that movement was perpetrated under the guise of the third reich. i would say you're making a logical fallacy, because you are (taking a part as a representitive of the whole.) however, i think it's clear that it's more than that. you're an ignorant twit.

 

[Vince Young]

Clotho and TheIrishHammer, you guys may want to keep in mind that the person who accused Óglaigh of being racist was a much-reviled poster who went by the name of ralphwaldoemerson. Ralphie also accused almost every other IrishEnvy member (myself included) of being racist in the very same thread. Ralphie then went on to accuse Svoboda of running the site for the sole purpose of stalking teenage boys on the Internet and was subsequently banned, much to the jubilation of most of the members of this forum. So, if you're relying on Ralphie's thinking as the basis for forming your own opinions on the other members here, you may want to reconsider that... unless you also agree that Svoboda is stalking teenage boys, in which case, hey, knock yourself out.

That said...

Óglaigh, dude. I like you. You're an entertaining and contributing member of this august forum, and I usually enjoy your posts. But honestly, declaring that the lives of 20 million Muslims aren't worth the life of a single American? I'm not going to drop any labels on you like "bigot" or "racist" or "hateful" because that approach is not likely to make you change your mind on this, and I sincerely hope you change your mind. But seeing you write that here saddened me greatly.

And that's all I have to say about that. This will be my only post in this thread, and I won't look at it again, so feel free to make fun of me behind my back. This is little to be gained from posting here, but I felt the need to at least say something.

 

[rontdtarchala]

In reality no one with an inkling of sense would wish the demise of 20 million people....Oh thats right unless your backing Islam...please people stop trying to make sense out of the unsensable...Islam wants you dead and you and oh ya also you...keep in mind usama has been given the green light to kill in mass numbers...as long as it doesn't exceed 10 million at one time of course...pleeeez... oglaigh express yourself while I don't agree with every thing you say atleast you have the balls to step up and swing...I am for profiling and I am also for doing what ever it takes to extract info from captured terrorists...its *&%&#@&**
war people... they will kill you, your spouse, your children and not even blink......pussies

 

[sonomairishfan]

January 10, 2009

on this day, our country will have a person that will not rule by being a fear monger.
until then, the shiite is going to hit the fan.

 

[sonomairishfan]

In reality no one with an inkling of sense would wish the demise of 20 million people....Oh thats right unless your backing Islam...please people stop trying to make sense out of the unsensable...Islam wants you dead and you and oh ya also you...keep in mind usama has been given the green light to kill in mass numbers...as long as it doesn't exceed 10 million at one time of course...pleeeez... oglaigh express yourself while I don't agree with every thing you say atleast you have the balls to step up and swing...I am for profiling and I am also for doing what ever it takes to extract info from captured terrorists...its *&%&#@&**
war people... they will kill you, your spouse, your children and not even blink......pussies

you really need to educate yourself a bit. islam does not want you dead. radical islamics want you dead. there is a huge difference.

 

[tedwick]

you really need to educate yourself a bit. islam does not want you dead. radical islamics want you dead. there is a huge difference.

someone gets it. rep points.

 

[Clotho]

Well, it's black and it's got this big "B" etched onto it. And the shape of the comb at the top is a clenched fist. That my friend, is racism, pure and simple.

Actually, it's not, and the only thing simple in this instance is you.


rac‧ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ [rey-siz-uhm]
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Now what about his "black pride" comb is saying that blacks are superior to whites, or have the right to rule whites; what about it is discriminatory; what about it shows hatred or intolerance of non-black races? Your interpreting that as a racist symbol just shows your own racist and intolerant attitudes. Black pride is no more a racist doctrine than Islam is a murderous one. The inevitable response to this by idiots like you is, "Ok, so is it OK for me to go around with white pride symbols?" Well, yea, it's fine, if you like being outed as a racist moron.

The difference is that "black pride" for the most part stems not from racism against whites, but from strong identification with, solidarity with, one's race, a race that's gone through hell in this country and is in a constant struggle for survival and respect, AS A RACE, and which is still discriminated against, AS A RACE. What have whites gone through in this country, AS WHITES, or BECAUSE they're white? Not a goddam thing. White is the default in this country and has been for a few centuries. A person's whiteness never need be accounted for, it's never something that need be mentioned or need be overcome. It doesn't put a person at a deficit. Blackness does. And that's the origin of the "double standard," you mouth breather.

 

[Clotho]

Clotho and TheIrishHammer, you guys may want to keep in mind that the person who accused Óglaigh of being racist was a much-reviled poster who went by the name of ralphwaldoemerson. Ralphie also accused almost every other IrishEnvy member (myself included) of being racist in the very same thread. Ralphie then went on to accuse Svoboda of running the site for the sole purpose of stalking teenage boys on the Internet and was subsequently banned, much to the jubilation of most of the members of this forum. So, if you're relying on Ralphie's thinking as the basis for forming your own opinions on the other members here, you may want to reconsider that... unless you also agree that Svoboda is stalking teenage boys, in which case, hey, knock yourself out.

Having seen what this guy's said in this thread, it wouldn't make a difference if it was Hitler who'd made the earlier accusation- it would still seem, to me, likely to have been valid.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

It's not black pride... it's black power. There's a difference.

But yes, to point out another double-standard, if it were black pride, no one would care. If it were white pride...omg, the world would turn upside down.

And I'm not suggesting the solution to this is accepting a "white pride" movement at all, I'm saying that racial pride in itself is dumb - no one gets to choose what race they are at birth. So black pride movements shouldn't be tolerated just as white pride movements shouldn't be..... and that's not even getting into these damn "power" movements.

 

[Clotho]

It's not black pride... it's black power. There's a difference.

No, there isn't. They mean the same thing. If you're going to get into a semantics debate about a two-word slogan, you're beyond help.

But yes, to point out another double-standard, if it were black pride, no one would care. If it were white pride...omg, the world would turn upside down.

No, the world wouldn't turn upside-down. But it would indicate that the person wearing the "white pride" article of clothing was racist and ignorant. If you need to know why this is, reread my post to you above, where I explained it about as well as I'm going to. If you can't understand the difference between "black pride/power" and "white pride/power," you're stupid or racist or both. WHITES ARE NOT WORKING FROM A DEFICIT. What reason is there for white solidarity? What do we have to band together against? What shared suffering have we, the white race, specifically had in this country, due to our race?

And I'm not suggesting the solution to this is accepting a "white pride" movement at all, I'm saying that racial pride in itself is dumb - no one gets to choose what race they are at birth. So black pride movements shouldn't be tolerated just as white pride movements shouldn't be..... and that's not even getting into these damn "power" movements.

Blacks will stop saying "black power/pride" when they're no longer discriminated against by whites and by white-dominated institutions. People like you will keep the "black power" movement going strong for a long, long time. That's too bad.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Clearly you don't understand the definition of "connotation". There is a difference between "power" and "pride". Power suggests force. Pride...well, it's just as the denotation suggests.

99.9999999% of people knowledgeable of race relations and their connection to the history of the United States would recognize that there's a difference between the two words.

 

[tedwick]

In reality no one with an inkling of sense would wish the demise of 20 million people....Oh thats right unless your backing Islam...please people stop trying to make sense out of the unsensable...Islam wants you dead and you and oh ya also you...keep in mind usama has been given the green light to kill in mass numbers...as long as it doesn't exceed 10 million at one time of course...pleeeez... oglaigh express yourself while I don't agree with every thing you say atleast you have the balls to step up and swing...I am for profiling and I am also for doing what ever it takes to extract info from captured terrorists...its *&%&#@&**
war people... they will kill you, your spouse, your children and not even blink......pussies

i would just like to point out that you are really, really ignorant. as previously mentioned, islam is not out to kill you. radical terrorist sects are out to kill you. osama has been given the green light to kill in mass numbers... by radical sects like hezbollah and the taliban.

how would you like to be held up at the airport simply because you are white, or protestant? I mean, the KKK is white and protestant, so therefore all WASPs are clearly a terror threat, right? What is that you say? Your 4th amendment rights are being violated? Oh, I'm sorry. That's too bad. National Security is at stake!

and, by the way. torture is despicable and an egregious violation of basic human rights. whether the person is a petty theif or adolf hitler, they should be afforded those rights. ideally, they should also be afforded the rights to a trial by jury, the right to know the evidence against them, and a speedy and public trial, but that's nothing compared to torture. torture is one of the most crudest, basest things concieved by the human race. for a supposedly advanced, cultured civilization to even debate employing it is simply an indication of how far the culture has fallen.

sorry for such a long post, and that i'm pretty antagonistic. it's just that i REALLY don't believe in some of the ideas floating around in this thread, to the point that i'm angry. i'd like to think i'm reasonable and that the people i discourse with are reasonable, but i just don't see a lot of reason in discrimination, torture, and intollerance.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

how would you like to be held up at the airport simply because you are white, or protestant? I mean, the KKK is white and protestant, so therefore all WASPs are clearly a terror threat, right? What is that you say? Your 4th amendment rights are being violated? Oh, I'm sorry. That's too bad. National Security is at stake!

The KKK are ass-holes but the last time I checked, they havn't hijacked any planes and flown them into goddamn office towers. Poor analogy.

i would just like to point out that you are really, really ignorant. as previously mentioned, islam is not out to kill you. radical terrorist sects are out to kill you.

You really think that in the Arab world radical Islam isn't mainstream? Radicalism isn't mainstream among American-born Muslims, but elsewhere it assuredly is.

and, by the way. torture is despicable and an egregious violation of basic human rights. whether the person is a petty theif or adolf hitler, they should be afforded those rights. ideally, they should also be afforded the rights to a trial by jury, the right to know the evidence against them, and a speedy and public trial, but that's nothing compared to torture. torture is one of the most crudest, basest things concieved by the human race. for a supposedly advanced, cultured civilization to even debate employing it is simply an indication of how far the culture has fallen.

For the most part I agree. But there are times when you know somebody knows something... I'll raise a hypothetical situation. Had we caught one of the 19 hijackers on September 10, 2001 and we knew that the man was a member of Al Queda, we would be at a severe disadvantage if we were not given the green-light to use torture methods to find out why he's in America, who else is with him, and what they intend to do. That disadvantage would have cost 3,000 American lives. Don't tell me why I'm wrong in this explanation, tell it to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I just realized how blatantly retarded the whole concept of this thread is.

Basically, on the one hand, I'm being told of how peaceful Islam is, and on the other, I'm being told that I'm racist. So to answer both of these accusations:

1. Yes, I do not like Islam. Big deal, I prioritize the human rights the Islamic movement threatens.

2. No, I'm not racist. That's all I need to say, as I'm the only person that knows the answer to that question. If I were racist, well, I don't think I'd bother to deny it. Nor do I take anyone seriously who suggests I am, as they are liberals who think that anyone with a differing opinion on anything is racist. Even if it's the issue of "what's better? Pepsi or Coke?"