Not a Top Ten Team?

[jerseyborn1971]

I was beginning to feel like a blind homer for believing ND is a Top Ten Team. On many a sports board and even these forums it has been repeated on numerous occasions that ND is NOT a Top Ten team. So I decided to play devil's advocate and take a look at the AP poll and see who should be ahead of them. Here are my findings...

Auburn, Currently #11. Apparently getting blown out by Arkansas at home and squeeking by South Carolina earns you a spot ahead of ND. I mean seriously, ND did lose to Michigan if haven't already heard.

Clemson, Currently #12. I guess losing to Boston College isn't a big deal. Clemson did beat the powerful FSU. And coming from behind to beat Wake Forest was a gutsy showing. Not like the MSU game where the Spartons just "gave" it to ND. Right. I keep hearing about how great Clemson is. I just never see it.

Georgia Tech, Currently #13. I guess losing to ND at home doesn't mean you shouldn't be ranked higher than them.

LSU, Currently #14. 2 losses. Who cares? What, getting smacked around by UF and having your offensive juggernaut put up 3 points on a team that lost to Arkansas doesn't get you in the Top Ten?

Iowa. Currently #15. Getting pounded by tOSU is totally different then getting pounded by Michigan, right? And they beat...umm...uh...umm...PURDUE! Wait, ND beat Purdue as well. But Iowa beat them by more so that means they are better than ND and should be ranked higher. Geez.

Georgia. Currently #16. A last second TD to barely get by....Colorado? Winless Colorado? Colorado that got beat by a 1-AA team? And then they got mashed by Tennessee. Sure. They are definitely better than ND.

How much farther down the list do we need to go? Arkansas? Oregon? Boise State? Rutgers?

I feel better. I was not being a blind homer. I was just not paying close enough attention to the idiots on ESPN.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Iowa has a right to claim to be higher... They have the same schedule and circumstances that Texas does.

Cal can too. They got whupped by Tennessee, but they represented very well at OU.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Cal is already in the Top Ten in the AP & #11 in USA Today. They should be 10 in that one ahead of Auburn. Respectfully disagree about Iowa, granted I am biased because I think Iowa is always over-rated. I know Drew Tate was out, but an overtime win over Syracuse?

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

pretty good post for now,but it's not going to mean anything if notre dame doesn't beat usc.
of course there are a few other teams along the way that are soft,but could still pose a threat to notre dame.
I also don't think that usc will grow any more this yearwith what they have.

Also,if i didn't like notre dame i could eat your post alive.I mean who has notre dame really played?georgia tech and michigan,one was a humiliating lose,the other a close win.

Just remember,if your going to lose,it's better to lose early then late,another reason why 11/25/06 is soo important.

does feel good to have them ranked back in the top 10 again.

Now,tennessee,florida,louisville,west virginia,michigan,texas,ohio state,and even some others need to find a way to lose.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Cal is already in the Top Ten in the AP & #11 in USA Today. They should be 10 in that one ahead of Auburn. Respectfully disagree about Iowa, granted I am biased because I think Iowa is always over-rated. I know Drew Tate was out, but an overtime win over Syracuse?

From BlueGraySky:
"where would you rank a 4-1 team that lost solidly at home to Ohio State, crushed a 1-AA opponent, beat Iowa State by three scores, and whipped a couple of lesser opponents? Well, if the team's name is Iowa, you rank them 19th. If it is Texas, you rank them 7th."

It's that simple. And let's face it, their record looks no worse than ours?

They got beat by OSU soundly at home. We lost soundly to UM at home. They pounded Purdue like we did.
Iowa: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=2294
ND: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=87

2 things affect their ranking negatively compared to ours:
1) Where they started [we simply got an advantage from starting at #2]
2) Win over Montana (yawn)

 

[irishfan]

From BlueGraySky:
"where would you rank a 4-1 team that lost solidly at home to Ohio State, crushed a 1-AA opponent, beat Iowa State by three scores, and whipped a couple of lesser opponents? Well, if the team's name is Iowa, you rank them 19th. If it is Texas, you rank them 7th."

thats because of preseason rankings. if there were no preseason rankings, the top 10 would be so much different. The rankings now would probably look like this:

1. Ohio State
2. Florida
3. Michigan
4. USC
5. Louisville
6. Notre Dame (because of our schedule)
7. Tennessee
8. Caifornia
9. Texas
10. Iowa

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

1. Ohio State (63) 6-0 1,623
2. Florida 6-0 1,516
3. USC 5-0 1,451
4. Michigan 6-0 1,429
5. West Virginia (2) 5-0 1,416
6. Texas 5-1 1,294
7. Louisville 5-0 1,247
8. Tennessee 5-1 1,159
9. Notre Dame 5-1 1,068
10. California 5-1 1,017

I think ND is exactly where they should be. Florida plays for the NC if they win out. Michigan or Ohio St. may knock each other out, but if that's the only game they lose, we probably won't jump them. WV or Louisville will cancel each other out and we should jump them if we win out. But, we probably won't see the top 5 again.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

thats because of preseason rankings. if there were no preseason rankings, the top 10 would be so much different. The rankings now would probably look like this:

1. Ohio State
2. Florida
3. Michigan
4. USC
5. Louisville
6. Notre Dame (because of our schedule)
7. Tennessee
8. Caifornia
9. Texas
10. Iowa

Yup...I think you hit it head on. ALTHOUGH, WVU would get tossed in there too. Louisville has a really similiar schedule.

 

[Aaronl]

wont it be great when there comes a day we can look back at all this and laugh and say "remember back when the college football championship was decided by sports writers instead of on the field and one loss had you pretty much elimanted"

PLAYOFFS PLAYOFFS PLAYOFFS!

seriously it will happen some day, wont it?!

 

[jiggafini19]

Guys, they lost by 26 points at home. Bad day or not, it was still bad. People see that just like they see Cal and Auburn, only Auburn got beat by nobody. ND and Cal got their asses handed to them by very good teams.

They need to play who they play and win every game, including USC. I think they can beat SC the more I think about it, but I'm still doubting it.

As of now.

 

[scooper]

After the first few teams, there is such a jumbled mess. I think any of teams 6-25 could probably beat any other on any given day.

If they Irish take it game by game and win each one, they will deserve whatever high ranking they get.

Remember, unless it's a big win, any losses hurt more than wins help. There won't be another shot for a big win until USC.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I'm not talking about being in the National Championship, just the Top Ten. I'm amazed that a supposed Irish Fan would actually make the comment "Who have we beat?". We've only played 1 team with a losing record and lost to a team that is in the top 5 and considered by many to be a #2 team. Who has WV beat? Who has USC beat? Who has Louisville beat? Hell, who has Michigan beat since ND isn't a Top Ten caliber team?

So go ahead a rip the post apart. I would like to see what the arguements would be. Saying ND is not Top Ten team is ridiculous. Go read CW's press conference from yesterday. The team is performing to the same level(if not better) then they were at this time last year. Except that they have a better record. But I know, ND lost by 26 to Michigan so they clearly suck. ND should just cancel the USC game because ND lost to Michigan by 26 afterall, in case you haven't heard.

BTW, ND lost 2 games last year and still finished in the top 10 of the BCS. And one of those losses was to an MSU team with a losing record, not a Michigan team that will be 11-1 at worst.

Notre Dame is a absolutely a Top Ten team.

 

[scooper]

I'm amazed that a supposed Irish Fan would actually make the comment "Who have we beat?".

No kidding. The Irish went 4-1 against the toughest September schedule in the country (according to Sagarin).

Only two teams up to this point have played nothing but BCS conference schools. ND and USC. This team has played a tough schedule. Sure, they got knocked around in one of them. (almost two) But they got back up.

Nobody's talking national title here, but I think this group deserves more credit than they are getting.

 

[jiggafini19]

But I know, ND lost by 26 to Michigan so they clearly suck. ND should just cancel the USC game because ND lost to Michigan by 26 afterall, in case you haven't heard.

BTW, ND lost 2 games last year and still finished in the top 10 of the BCS.

YOU said that. Try not to shoot the messenger. Blue and Gold Illustrated writers will even admit, and have, that running the table against this schedule with one loss by 26 points might not be enough to get into the title game. All they can do is play each game, one at a time, and win them all. Then it's a crapshoot. As for being in the Top Ten, who cares? I'd like to win a bowl game before I hit my 30's in two years.

Have some perspective on what voters see. Loss column = one. That one loss was by 26 at home. You think the anti-ND contingent isn't going to pump that up? Guys like Craig James are voting ND 18th. And no, not enough people have heard. Blue and Gold glasses see ONE LOSS. It was an ass thumping, one of the worst at home in 20 years. That's not being "negative", that's telling the goddamned truth.

Then the head coach admits in a Rivals article today:

Yet Weis has avoided padding some of the stats that could have looked much better against Purdue, Stanford and even Penn State if he had chosen to do so.

"I could have added a hundred more yards or so if I had wanted to," Weis said. "I just don't believe in doing that. I think it's disrespectful."

Maybe that was Michigan State's thought process, too. HORRIBLE philosophy. Step on the gas and go. Don't let up on these teams ever. I like everything that Weis is doing, but this isn't the NFL. Unfortunately, like it or not, your fate is in the voters hands as much as your own. Style points count. That's a fact of life when it comes to margain of victory. You don't pass into the end zone up 50-0, but you go full steam ahead and give it to these teams.

As for the two losses LAST year. They were both by three points, one in overtime and one to the #1 ranked defending champions on a miracle in a tremendously played game.

Last year is over. And not too many people have heard about that yet. Think outside of the Golden Box. For every reason we can think of as to why they deserve to be in the top ten, there are reasons that they shouldn't be. Frankly, I'm not sure why the hell it matters where they're ranked. Lovers will love, haters will hate. I'll be objective, which on a message board carries zero weight.

For me, all that matters is that one loss. Had they beaten Michigan, there is no debate about who the #2 team is. It would still be tOSU 1, Notre Dame 2.

There is nothing absolute about being a top ten team. The polling process is incorrect because a two loss LSU is far better than unbeaten Missouri or Boise State.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

"For me, all that matters is that one loss."

I guess that is where we have a difference of opinion. I look through my Blue & Gold glasses to appreciate the things ND does well as opposed to only obsessing about the things ND did not do well. I can understand a blow out loss taking someone out of the NC hunt, but not necessarily the top ten. I never said or implied that ND was a National Championship Contender.

Rankings do matter. Just ask top recruits. I'm assuming high school recruits would like a legitimate chance to play in a BCS game more than the Gator Bowl. Even if ND lost the last BCS Bowl they were in.

Last year IS over. This year ND has a better record so far and numbers that are on par with last years.

I hate to sound argumentative because we are all supporting the Irish, albeit in different ways.

 

[maison bleu]

Notre Dame is a absolutely a Top Ten team.

I don't think NDs defense is good enough to merit a top ten ranking.

 

[jiggafini19]

All I know is, they're 5-1. You are what you are.

Kids will not look at a two loss LSU team any differently. Greg Little is torn between ND and UNC. Are you kidding me? Maybe Greg hasn't checked his AP Poll lately.

I think this team can compete with anymore. Win or lose, I don't know. At times they've looked very good, very bad, solid, out of sync and (MSU first half) on the brink of collapse.

The four steps of a program: Learn to compete, Learn how to win, learn how to handle winning, win championships. This program is somewhere in the step 2-3 range. Beating SC this year is a monumental step forward.

Tough to judge, but I'll say this: The last ten quarters of football have been very solid.

Now let's hope the next four are as good or better.

 

[maison bleu]

A
I think this team can compete with anymore. Win or lose, I don't know. At times they've looked very good, very bad, solid, out of sync and (MSU first half) on the brink of collapse.

I was thinking about this way: who is this team? What's their identity? What's the one thing you can count on them to do well?

 

[jiggafini19]

Maison,

I think they found themselves in the second half of that MSU game. I think GT and PSU had them believing all of the cover shoots and a very good Michigan caught them off guard and gave them a beating.

I agree with BGIF...the baseball, boxing and Heisman Hype are all starting to fade. They're regrouped, refocused and they have their sights set on the next game.

But in the back of their minds, they've got that SC game circled on their calendars just like everyone else. After the thud against scUM, they know they'll need vindication against SC.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I think Greg might be looking at academics more than football. UNC and ND are both great schools academically. Ironically, how good the football team is might be last on his list of priorities. Academics, location, campus life etc.

 

[scooper]

I don't think NDs defense is good enough to merit a top ten ranking.

Luckily, you don't have a vote.

A team is not an offense or a defense. It is a culmination of all three aspects. Georgia Tech may have one of the best defenses in college football. Does that make them better than ND? Obviously not.

Florida State's defense is nothing to sneeze at. Top ten team? Um. No.

 

[dylan020]

I was thinking about this way: who is this team? What's their identity? What's the one thing you can count on them to do well?





pass? lol

 

[jiggafini19]

What will become the key to this second half of the season is the offensive line continuing to gel.

Don't forget, there is a true freshman starting in that front five and the other four didn't play together collectively prior to spring.

They've cut back on the stupid mistakes and have gotten the running game going the last two games. Quinn's protection has been spotty, but it got better by the end of the month than it was at the beginning.

As they improve this month, along with Prince and Aldridge getting reps, you will start to see improvement.

Defensively, these guys need to keep getting minutes at LB and DB.

 

[jimoats]

That's the drawback of having your own tv network. ND can be seen every single week, whether it's USC, scUM, or Navy. If ND doesn't play a perfect game, their flaws are out there for everyone to see. And personally, despite being a homer domer, I see plenty of flaws in this years team. I don't think ND RIGHT NOW is any better than the 9th or 10th best team in the country.

 

[scooper]

I don't think ND RIGHT NOW is any better than the 9th or 10th best team in the country.

That's the thing. It's hard to argue that the Irish are better. But it's also hard to argue that they couldn't beat those teams. And looking at the fact that they are 5-1 against the toughest schedule in the country so far, they deserve the ranking.

 

[Indydomer]

here is the thing. Ok at the beginning of the year everyone on tv talked about how ND would make it to the USC game and then lose, because USC was young and would be gelled together by then. Well ND is playing a bunch of young kids and our schedule is very favorable for them to get experience in the next few weeks. This is great for us, because WE will gell and be ready to hand SC it's ass in that final game. This team is going to continue to improve throughout the season especially on D. That will only help the offense. Weis has been slowing up the offense and trying to control the clock so he can keep his weaker D off the field. As the D improves, he will be able to open up the offense and start putting up serious points.

Just my opinion

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

wont it be great when there comes a day we can look back at all this and laugh and say "remember back when the college football championship was decided by sports writers instead of on the field and one loss had you pretty much elimanted"

PLAYOFFS PLAYOFFS PLAYOFFS!

seriously it will happen some day, wont it?!

I sure hope it happens. I think we all would love to see that. My concern is that they would go below the top4...I generally don't think going below the top4 or 5 is a good thing.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Guys, they lost by 26 points at home. Bad day or not, it was still bad. People see that just like they see Cal and Auburn, only Auburn got beat by nobody. ND and Cal got their asses handed to them by very good teams.

They need to play who they play and win every game, including USC. I think they can beat SC the more I think about it, but I'm still doubting it.

As of now.

You are very right. It was not a close loss...it was a beating. In time that memory will fade...especially as UM represents itself well. However, it will be though to move past #5 based on that loss alone. Beating crappy teams like UNC and Stanford does not help that.

Which brings us to USC.

I honestly believe the boys are going to lay a licking on them. I really do. I don't see that game going well for the Trojans. In fact I see us winning by a double digit score.

USC is being held in check by crappy teams. They are NOT dominating in general. They are just waiting to fall.

My concern about the game is that we need more pass rush to fluster Booty.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't think NDs defense is good enough to merit a top ten ranking.

Ohio State's ranking when they won the NC was not enough to rate a top25 ranking...

Stats mean NOTHING. W/L is everything.

I *was* one of the guys talking about how Miami was going to obliterate tOSU. I pointed out that OSU sucked because they had no offense, they were lucky, and they had no business being in the top10.

I was wrong. tOSU won it on the field.

Stats mean NOTHING. W/L is EVERYTHING!!!

(and we have 1 loss...and it was brutal...but that loss was the offense's fault for turning over the ball 4 times...and once on special teams.)

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

All I know is, they're 5-1. You are what you are.

Kids will not look at a two loss LSU team any differently. Greg Little is torn between ND and UNC. Are you kidding me? Maybe Greg hasn't checked his AP Poll lately.

Greg Little probably cares more about academics than Polls. Given that he has a very tough decision between two highly ranked schools.

And, on a crappy program like UNC's football squad he WILL play every year AND get all kinds of attention.