Yet another reason to fire Lloyd Carr

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Don't get me wrong, I want Michigan to hang onto him because it's good for us.

But check this out:

http://notredame.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1577

It is very possible for Michigan to lose every single one of the state's top 10 prospects. I think that's unheard of in states with a D-1 football program. Their best bet is probably Ronald Johnson. But if they don't nab him, they probably go 0/10. That's miserable.

 

[maison bleu]

Michigan is a national program with a national recruiting base. If OyDDD (no Ls so far, lots of D) recruits another top twenty class, who cares how many of them come from Michigan? It's not like OSU or Texas or PSU, where if you lose your state, you're screwed.

Tom Brady = California
Mike Hart = NY
Braylon Edwards = Ohio
Chad Henne = Pennsylvania
et cetera, et cetera

 

[jiggafini19]

Biggest myth in recruiting as far as I'm concerned.

You want the best players you can get at each position you are looking to fill. It doesn't matter where their parents live.

Now on the flipside, I do think it is rather odd that many of these national recruits are leaning in other directions.

 

[maison bleu]

Michigan roster. Look at where they're from. How much will getting to top 10 MI recruits really hurt?


22 Jamar Adams S 6-2 215 JR (2V) Charlotte, NC (David W. Butler HS)
16 Adrian Arrington WR 6-3 187 JR (2V) Cedar Rapids, IA (Washington HS)
92 Greg Banks DE 6-4 246 FR (HS) Denver, CO (Montbello HS)
19 Willis Barringer S 6-0 205 SR (4V) Toledo, OH (Scott HS)
18 Antonio Bass WR 6-0 203 SO (1V) Albany, NY (Jackson HS)
91 Rondell Biggs DE 6-3 275 SR (4V) Southfield, MI (Southfield-Lathrup HS)
54 Mark Bihl OL 6-5 297 SR (4V) Washington Court House, OH (Washington Court House HS)
61 Turner Booth 6-2 257 SR (4V) Baltimore, MD (Rockville HS)
65 Justin Boren OL 6-4 308 FR (HS) Pickerington, OH (Pickerington North HS)
26 Alijah Bradley RB 5-6 171 SR (4V) Hercules, CA (De LaSalle Catholic HS)
80 Alan Branch DT 6-6 330 JR (2V) Albuquerque, NM (Cibola HS)
15 Steve Breaston WR 6-1 182 SR (4V) North Braddock, PA (Woodland Hills HS)
23 Carlos Brown RB 6-0 206 FR (HS) Franklin, GA (Heard County HS)
30 Stevie Brown S 6-0 205 FR (HS) Columbus, IN (Columbus East HS)
6 Prescott Burgess LB 6-3 246 SR (3V) Warren, OH (Warren G. Harding HS)
85 Carson Butler Jr. TE 6-4 254 SO (1V) Detroit, MI (Detroit Renaissaince HS)
9 Anton Campbell S 5-11 193 SR (3V) O'Fallon, MO (Fort Zumwalt West HS)
26 Mike Carl S 6-0 205 SR (4V) Troy, MI (Troy Athens HS)
70 Jeremy Ciulla OL 6-4 292 JR (2V) Kennesaw, GA (Kennesaw Mountain HS)
12 David Cone QB 6-6 201 FR (HS) Statesboro, GA (Statesboro HS)
2 Shawn Crable LB 6-5 245 SR (3V) Massillon, OH (Washington HS)
39 Andre Criswell RB 6-1 254 SO (1V) Detroit, MI (Detroit Renaissance HS)
64 Grant DeBenedictis OL 6-5 296 JR (2V) Boca Raton, FL (Saint Andrew's Prep HS)
79 Perry Dorrestein OL 6-7 317 FR (HS) Plainfield, IL (Plainfield Central HS)
81 Doug Dutch WR 5-11 195 JR (2V) Bowie, MD (Gonzaga College)
89 Tyler Ecker TE 6-6 247 SR (4V) El Dorado Hills, CA (Oak Ridge HS)
27 Shakir Edwards DB 6-0 209 JR (2V) Detroit, MI (Martin Luther King HS)
31 Brandent Englemon S 5-11 205 SR (3V) Covington, KY (Holmes HS)
44 Obinna Ezeh LB 6-2 213 FR (HS) Grand Rapids, MI (Catholic Central HS)
94 John Ferrara DT 6-4 285 FR (HS) Staten Island, NY (Monsignor Farrell HS)
19 Jason Forcier QB 6-2 206 SO (1V) San Diego, CA (St. Augustine HS)
74 Brett Gallimore OL 6-4 298 JR (2V) Riverside, MO (Park Hill South HS)
96 Eugene Germany DE 6-2 279 SO (1V) Pomona, CA (University of Southern California)
34 Jason Gingell K 5-9 188 JR (2V) Northville, MI (Detroit Catholic Central HS)
3 Kevin Grady RB 5-9 216 SO (1V) Ada, MI (East Grand Rapids HS)
55 Brandon Graham DE 6-2 274 FR (HS) Detroit, MI (Crockett Technical HS)
37 Chris Graham LB 5-11 225 JR (2V) Indianapolis, IN (Warren Central HS)
59 Sean Griffin 6-2 234 JR (2V) Livonia, MI (Catholic Central HS)
29 Leon Hall CB 5-11 193 SR (3V) Vista, CA (Vista HS)
45 Dave Harris LB 5-2 242 SR (4V) Grand Rapids, MI (Ottawa Hills HS)
27 Brandon Harrison S 5-8 205 SO (1V) Dayton, OH (Chaminade-Julienne HS)
20 Mike Hart RB 5-9 198 JR (2V) Syracuse, NY (Onondaga Central HS)
7 Chad Henne QB 6-2 223 JR (2V) West Lawn, PA (Wilson HS)
4 Darnell Hood CB 5-11 193 SR (4V) Detroit, MI (Bishop Gallagher HS)
12 Matt Hornaday S 5-10 188 SO (1V) Germantown, MD (Seneca Valley HS)
24 Jerome Jackson RB 5-11 200 SR (3V) Saginaw, MI (Sagninaw HS)
90 Tim Jamison DE 6-3 249 JR (2V) Harvey, IL (Harvey Thornton HS)
97 Will Johnson DT 6-5 291 JR (2V) Oakland, MI (Lake Orion HS)
14 Tyrone Jordan II WR 5-10 186 SR (3V) Flushing, MI (Flushing HS)
13 Jeff Kastl QB 6-3 222 SR (4V) Clinton Township, MI (Chippewa Valley HS)
93 Jason Kates DT 6-3 352 FR (HS) Harrisburg, PA (Bishop McDevitt HS)
63 Michael Knill DL 6-5 270 SR (4V) Rochester Hills, MI (Michigan State University)
76 Mike Kolodziej OL 6-7 307 SR (4V) Joliet, IL (Joliet Catholic Academy)
57 Adam Kraus OL 6-6 295 SR (3V) New Orleans, LA (Brother Martin HS)
46 Brandon Logan LB 6-0 218 SO (1V) Lexington, KY (Lexington Catholic HS)
37 James Logan DB 5-9 189 JR (2V) Detroit, MI (Mumford HS)
77 Jake Long OL 6-7 316 SR (3V) Lapeer, MI (Lapeer East HS)
84 K.C. Lopata K 6-2 217 JR (2V) Farmington, MI (Farmington HS)
60 Patrick Lyall OL 6-0 279 JR (2V) Adrian, MI (Adrian HS)
86 Mario Manningham WR 6-0 187 SO (1V) Warren, OH (Warren G. Harding HS)
83 Mike Massey TE 6-4 234 JR (2V) Brecksville, OH (St. Ignatius HS)
13 Greg Mathews WR 6-3 195 FR (HS) Orlando, FL (Edgewater HS)
62 Tim McAvoy OL 6-5 288 SO (1V) Bloomington, IL (Bloomington HS)
44 James McKinney DT 6-2 279 SO (1V) Louisville, KY (Louisville Central HS)
42 Chris McLaurin LB 6-3 246 SO (1V) Rochester Hills, MI (Orchard Lake St. Mary's HS)
41 Zoltan Mesko P 6-4 218 SO (1V) Timisoara, (Twinsburg HS)
4 Brandon Minor RB 6-0 210 FR (HS) Richmond, VA (Varina HS)
73 Alex Mitchell OL 6-5 311 JR (2V) Reese, MI (Bay City Central HS)
33 Cobrani Mixon LB 6-1 226 FR (HS) Cincinnati, OH (Colerain HS)
28 Dan Moore LB 6-0 234 SR (3V) Wayne, MI (Central Catholic HS)
60 David Moosman OL 6-4 298 SO (1V) Amsterdam, (Libertyville HS)
33 Mark Moundros RB 6-1 212 FR (HS) Farmington Hills, MI (North Farmington HS)
8 Jonas Mouton S 6-2 217 FR (HS) Los Angeles, CA (Venice HS)
21 Ryan Mundy S 6-1 205 SR (3V) Wilkins Township, PA (Woodland Hills HS)
58 Tim North DE 6-1 246 SO (1V) Linden, MI (Linden HS)
92 Jason Olesnavage K 6-4 205 SO (1V) Ferndale, MI (Ferndale HS)
40 Obi Oluigbo RB 6-0 234 SR (4V) Laurel, MD (Episcopal HS)
38 B.J. Opong-Owusu S 5-11 201 SR (4V) West Bloomfield, MI (Walled Lake Western HS)
55 Ohene Opong-Owusu LB 6-1 238 SO (1V) West Bloomfield, MI (Walled Lake Western HS)
71 Mark Ortmann OL 6-6 299 SO (1V) Klein, TX (Klein HS)
36 Quintin Patilla LB 6-1 216 FR (HS) Flint, MI (Carman-Ainsworth HS)
99 Adam Patterson DE 6-2 250 FR (HS) Columbia, SC (Richland Northeast HS)
34 Will Paul RB 6-3 252 SR (3V) Chesterfield, MO (Parkway West HS)
22 Kyle Plummer CB 5-10 169 SR (4V) Milford, MI (Milford HS)
97 Max Pollock LB 6-1 218 SR (3V) Takoma Park, MD (Montgomery Blair HS)
28 Chris Richards CB 5-11 176 SO (1V) Pacioma, CA (James Monroe HS)
72 Rueben Riley OL 6-4 303 SR (4V) Grand Rapids, MI (Creston HS)
38 Garrett Rivas K 5-9 217 SR (3V) Tampa, FL (Tampa Jesuit HS)
3 Ross Ryan P 6-1 205 SR (4V) Franklin, MI (Brother Rice HS)
62 Jon Saigh OL 6-4 289 JR (2V) Kingsford, MI (Kingsford HS)
82 LaTerryal Savoy WR 6-2 203 SO (1V) Mamou, LA (Mamou HS)
78 Justin Schifano OL 6-4 299 SO (1V) Webster, NY (Schroeder HS)
52 Stephen Schilling OL 6-5 300 FR (HS) Bellevue, WA (Bellevue HS)
25 Johnny Sears Jr. CB 6-0 189 SO (1V) Fresno, CA (Edison HS)
68 Patrick Sharrow OL 6-5 298 SR (3V) Monroe, MI (Monroe HS)
8 Nick Sheridan QB 6-1 190 FR (HS) Saline, MI (Saline HS)
32 Mister Simpson RB 5-10 210 SO (1V) Cincinnati, OH (Colerain HS)
2 Landon Smith WR 5-8 174 SR (4V) San Jose, CA (Gunderson HS)
5 Charles Stewart CB 6-1 196 JR (2V) Farmington Hills, MI (Harrison HS)
17 Carl Tabb WR 6-2 204 SR (4V) Ann Arbor, MI (Huron HS)
67 Terrance Taylor DT 6-0 305 SO (1V) Muskegon, MI (Muskegon HS)
35 Brian Thompson RB 6-2 238 SR (4V) Saginaw, MI (Nouvel Catholic HS)
49 John Thompson LB 6-1 231 JR (2V) Detroit, MI (Crockett HS)
25 Robbie Thornbladh RB 6-1 225 FR (HS) Ann Arbor, MI (Pioneer HS)
14 Morgan Trent CB 6-1 192 JR (2V) Brighton, MI (Orchard Lake St. Mary's HS)
50 Jeremy Van Alstyne DE 6-4 267 SR (4V) Greenwood, IN (Center Grove HS)
95 Marques Walton DT 6-0 291 JR (2V) Chicago, IL (Hubbard HS)
56 LaMarr Woodley LB 6-2 268 SR (3V) Saginaw, MI (Saginaw HS)
88 Quintin Woods TE 6-6 220 FR (HS) Flint, MI (Flint Southwestern Academy)
18 Ben Wright WR 5-9 193 JR (2V) Grosse Pointe, MI (Grosse Pointe North HS)
43 Bryan Wright K 6-1 206 FR (HS) Salem, OH (Salem HS)
10 Jeff Ziegler QB 6-6 205 FR (HS) Dexter, MI (Dexter HS)
75 Cory Zirbel OL 6-5 297 SO (1V) Murray, KY (Murray HS)

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Talent is talent and when it's in your back yard, it's ridiculous if you can't reel any of it in... and particularly if your university represents the state.

And if Lloyd thought the way you did, he wouldn't have offered the 5, 6, or 7 guys he did from the top 10. And look at where they are headed, too: Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State... c'mon. Recruiting isn't a one-way street, when you lose a guy, another school gains a guy.

 

[maison bleu]

First of all, for all you or I or anyone knows, the players in MI ranked 11-20 may turn out to be better than 1-10. Recruiting is a crap shoot.

Second, even IF we miss a couple of in state players this year, it NO REASON to fire the coach.

You hysterical Domers, man. I'd think you'd be less cavalier about firing coaches, given the fact that it took you FOUR tries to get it right after cLOUless Holtz left. Meanwhile, Michigan has had 3 coaches since 1969. Stability is good for recruiting.

Here's hoping you get a few more years of CW before he stiffs you for the NFL and you have to stumble through another coaching search.

 

[jiggafini19]

You were dead on until the last sentence about Weis and the NFL.

 

[TDJesus3]

most non-nd guys don't seem to get it

Weis will not leave for the NFL, he has said it a million times, he is irish for life, he is an alum, and there is no better job in his eyes, he will be at ND till atleast when little charlie graduates from ND

keep praying all you non-nd fans who want him to go, but hes not going anywhere

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I'm sure Boise State fans can (and do) make the same argument you did about recruiting services and their talent evaluations.

Are recruiting services perfect? No. Is defending Rivals/Scout a popular position? No. But are they at least fairly accurate? Yeah, I think so. Do I want to continue defending them? No, it's boring, and I have better things to do.

I don't really care about Michigan, tbh, except for when we are playing them on the field. So I don't really want to argue with a Michigan fan about what's best for their team because I'm just not interested.

At the end of next week, there's a great chance you'll still be a national title contender. I guess every Saturday you just have to ask yourself whether you feel right about the direction your program is heading.

I want to make another argument about Lloyd right now, but I had better wait 'till Sunday to do so

 

[TDJesus3]

i would think you michigan fans would want to fire him for being a bad coach not for recruiting, he recruits well and i agree with your points about 11-20

but come on that program is a sleeping giant, and the only reason it is sleeping is because they wont wake up and fire lloyd

please keep him, i mean hell Ty could beat him, so i feel ok about Weis's chances

 

[scooper]

First of all, for all you or I or anyone knows, the players in MI ranked 11-20 may turn out to be better than 1-10. Recruiting is a crap shoot.

Second, even IF we miss a couple of in state players this year, it NO REASON to fire the coach.

You hysterical Domers, man. I'd think you'd be less cavalier about firing coaches, given the fact that it took you FOUR tries to get it right after cLOUless Holtz left. Meanwhile, Michigan has had 3 coaches since 1969. Stability is good for recruiting.

Here's hoping you get a few more years of CW before he stiffs you for the NFL and you have to stumble through another coaching search.

Lou owned the Wolverines.

I like maison. Better than a not of ND posters. But it's skunkbear week.

 

[onenybrother]

If anyone think that Charlie wouldn't come to the Giant's if they come calling is fooling them self. He's a Jersey guy , the Mara's gave him his start in football and he would be consider a god here also.

 

[scooper]

If anyone think that Charlie wouldn't come to the Giant's if they come calling is fooling them self. He's a Jersey guy , the Mara's gave him his start in football and he would be consider a god here also.

That big new house with the riding stable for his wife, the family atmosphere where they are comfortable having Hannah and his desire to be around to watch Charlie Jr. graduate from ND tell me otherwise.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

i would think you michigan fans would want to fire him for being a bad coach not for recruiting, he recruits well and i agree with your points about 11-20

but come on that program is a sleeping giant, and the only reason it is sleeping is because they wont wake up and fire lloyd

please keep him, i mean hell Ty could beat him, so i feel ok about Weis's chances

lol...........well, TDJesus, that's what I was holding off 'till Sunday to say. I just think it's bad luck to call a bad coach out by name right before you play them.

So to balance out the previous statement: Lloyd, you are an excellent coach, the best coach, and you are going to kick ass on Saturday. There is absolutely no doubt that Lloyd Carr will come back to Ann Arbor 3-0. It just isn't possible for Lloyd Carr to lose on Saturday, he's too good of a coach. His wit, cunning, and sexual appeal (lol) are unmatched on this Earth. God himself would have to use a phone-a-friend to Lloyd before selecting a play to run against Michigan's own defense. That's just how good of a coach Lloyd Carr is. And Chad Henne will smile his way to the Heisman trophy, starting this Saturday.

And yes, I'm an ass.

 

[maison bleu]

"You were dead on until the last sentence about Weis and the NFL."--jigga

I like maison. Better than a not of ND posters. But it's skunkbear week."--scooper

Let the intelligent, civilized trash talk flow!

C'mon, let's sing: you all know the tune!

"Shame, shame on you Notre Dame!
Trojans and Buckeyes are stealing your fame!
What the heck ever happened to
The Irish of Notre Dame?"

 

[TDJesus3]

my apologies

he is the greatest coach ever

and if the giants called he would go!

 

[scooper]

"Shame, shame on you Notre Dame!
Trojans and Buckeyes are stealing your fame!
What the heck ever happened to
The Irish of Notre Dame?"

The version we sing of the victors is not appropriate for this board.

 

[maison bleu]

That big new house with the riding stable for his wife, the family atmosphere where they are comfortable having Hannah and his desire to be around to watch Charlie Jr. graduate from ND tell me otherwise.

Saban, another Bill B guy, did the same song and dance about staying in Baton Rouge. You gotta send the message you're staying, both for recruiting and as a negotiating ploy when the NFL does come calling.

Here's what I think will happen. Either,
a) CW wins a NC in short order, in which case you will all make life miserable for him every subsequent year that he DOESN'T win a NC;
or.
b) CW doesn't win a NC, in which case you will all make life miserable for him.

CW's got an ego. Like Saban and Spurrier. I even expect Petey C to make one more stab at Sundays before he retires.

It's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.

 

[maison bleu]

The version we sing of the victors is not appropriate for this board.

Yeah, well I cleaned that version of the ND Fight Song up a lot too. The way I heard it originally was definitely not for this board.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

If Weis doesn't win an NC, it'll be different than if say, Ty were in the same position, because Weis has a character that demands respect, and we have a tremendous amount of faith in him and what he has in store for our future. We also know that he sets standards for himself and that matters. Ty might have been pleased with playing USC competitively (which he didn't do), but Charlie expects a win and anything else is unacceptable.

And more than that, he knows the university and what it means to so many people, so he respects the tradition, the mystique, and acknowledges that he has a duty to add to it.

Also, tbh I don't think anyone living right now could do a better job at ND than he has.

 

[maison bleu]

Also, tbh I don't think anyone living right now could do a better job at ND than he has.

I agree with you.

There was a time when Spurrier and Florida seemed just as perfect a match as ND and Weiss do now.

But nothing lasts for ever, except perhaps a Michigan fan's loathing of the $-eyes. (That's Buckeyes for those of you in Columbus).

 

[scooper]

Saban, another Bill B guy, did the same song and dance about staying in Baton Rouge. You gotta send the message you're staying, both for recruiting and as a negotiating ploy when the NFL does come calling.

Here's what I think will happen. Either,
a) CW wins a NC in short order, in which case you will all make life miserable for him every subsequent year that he DOESN'T win a NC;
or.
b) CW doesn't win a NC, in which case you will all make life miserable for him.

CW's got an ego. Like Saban and Spurrier. I even expect Petey C to make one more stab at Sundays before he retires.

It's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.

1. Saban is not an LSU alumnus.

2. To the best of my knowledge, Saban does not have the family circumstances the Weis' have with Hannah. They like South Bend for her.

3. That LSU degree is not what an ND degree would be for Charlie Jr.

4. The team has been down. We can admit that. But there is no bigger college football stage than ND. If any team can stave off the NFL when they come sniffing, it's ND. Especially for an alumnus.

5. Things are looking up for the G-men these days. (tonight not-withstanding) That job won't be open any time soon.

6. The new house, when they had a nice sized one before, is not a song and dance. It's roots.

 

[ChiND]

Recruiting hasn't been the problem for UM, it has been player development. And trust me, we have seen it happen in the recent past. Unfortunately for UM, there are no real coaches looking for jobs who can make an immediate impact (but mayber Zook will need a new job after this year?).

 

[scooper]

I agree with you.

There was a time when Spurrier and Florida seemed just as perfect a match as ND and Weiss do now.

But nothing lasts for ever, except perhaps a Michigan fan's loathing of the $-eyes. (That's Buckeyes for those of you in Columbus).

And how long was Spurrier in Florida? How long did he stay after his national title? If Charlie's there that long. We'll be happy.

The Charlie to the NFL talk is wishful thinking amongst non-ND fans. There are a lot of very good college coaches. (Michigan should hire one. They are nice to have) Many of these coaches get a lot of NFL talk. They don't all leave. Even when given the chance.

 

[maison bleu]

And how long was Spurrier in Florida? How long did he stay after his national title? If Charlie's there that long. We'll be happy.

The Charlie to the NFL talk is wishful thinking amongst non-ND fans. There are a lot of very good college coaches. (Michigan should hire one. They are nice to have) Many of these coaches get a lot of NFL talk. They don't all leave. Even when given the chance.

Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Spurrier repeatedly turned down the NFL, but eventually went. Saban too. And I think CW will want to measure himself on football's biggest stage--Sundays.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I hate to sound arrogant.......but being the head coach of Notre Dame when it's successful is more prestigeous than an NFL head coaching position.

 

[maison bleu]

I hate to sound arrogant.......but being the head coach of Notre Dame when it's successful is more prestigeous than an NFL head coaching position.

I don't know what they're putting in the holy water these days, but you sound like you've been huffing paint thinner.

As a coach or player, if you want to prove yourself on the highest level of football, you go to the NFL. Especially if most of your coaching life was spent in the NFL.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I don't know what they're putting in the holy water these days, but you sound like you've been huffing paint thinner.

As a coach or player, if you want to prove yourself on the highest level of football, you go to the NFL. Especially if most of your coaching life was spent in the NFL.

He's proven himself at the highest level and has rings to show this.

Obviously, the NFL would be the objective of any coach in the country...

Unless you were the head coach at Our Lady's University. The University of Notre Dame. Now...back to "huffing paint thinner" skunkbear.

 

[jiggafini19]

So our guy is leaving for the NFL Football Giants, their guy should be fired.

Awesome.

I'm pretty secure with both coaches and their current positions. Should Carr lose to ND, OSU and a bowl again this year, it wouldn't surprise me that he get fired. And I"m not saying that would be fair at all.

Plaxico Burress or Duval Kumara? Who would you rather deal with as a coach?

 

[scooper]

Honestly, I hope Llllloyd never leaves Michigan. Beating him may be redundant, but it's fun. I'd miss his half assed midfield hand shakes with the victorious Irish coaches. Or the times when he snubs the shake all together.