Not Back Yet?

[jiggafini19]

Notre Dame Not Back Yet
Associated Press

TEMPE, Ariz. - Notre Dame showed it has the potential to become a national power again under coach Charlie Weis.

But the Fighting Irish's 34-20 loss to Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl on Monday showed they can't rely on offense alone if they want to contend for a national title.

''We made some strides toward where we want to be, but when you end your season like this, it's taking a step backward,'' receiver Jeff Samardzija said. ''We didn't finish like we wanted to.''

The biggest obstacle facing the Irish (9-3) is a defense that gave up far too many big plays and too many big performances, including:

- An average of 397 yards a game, the highest total in school history.

- Forty-four points in an overtime loss to Michigan State, which didn't make a bowl game.

- A 61-yard pass to USC's Matt Leinart on fourth-and-9 that set up the Trojans' winning touchdown.

- Four touchdowns of 55 yards or more and 617 yards of total offense against fourth-ranked Ohio State (10-2) in the Fiesta Bowl. The 617 yards were the most ever given up by the Irish, seven more than the Trojans had against Notre Dame in 2002.

''We have a lot to do this offseason,'' cornerback Ambrose Wooden said.

The Irish did improve drastically on offense in Weis' first year, averaging 477 yards a game - 132 yards better than the season before.

Brady Quinn set just about every school passing record and finished fourth in the Heisman Trophy voting, the best for a Notre Dame player since Rocket Ismail was second in 1990. The Irish haven't had a Heisman Trophy winner since receiver Tim Brown in 1987.

But the drought that bothers the Irish the most is the 17 years without a national championship - the longest such streak in school history.

The loss to Ohio State not only kept Notre Dame from reclaiming from Michigan the title of the school with the best all-time winning percentage, it also showed the Irish weren't ready to reclaim their spot among college football's elite.

''I didn't expect that coming from this team,'' tight end Anthony Fasano said. ''Losing three games and coming out here and working and not getting the job done, there are definitely some things we need to work on.''

Quinn's school record of consecutive games with at least one touchdown pass was stopped at 17, and the team's streak of scoring at least 30 points in a game ended at nine. The 20 points scored against Ohio State left the Irish shy of breaking the school record of 37.6 points a game, set by the 1968 team. Notre Dame averaged 36.6 points this season.

Looking ahead, the Irish lose linebackers Brandon Hoyte and Corey Mays, the team's top two tacklers, but the other nine starters on defense return.

Most of Notre Dame's key players on its record-setting offense return. The Irish lose right guard Dan Stevenson, right tackle Mark LeVoir, receiver Maurice Stovall and possibly Fasano, if he decides to turn pro. Fasano said he likely will make a decision in the next week.

The Irish used six players regularly on the line, with Bob Morton playing at guard and center, so they will need to find just one starter on the line.

Samardzija returns at one receiving spot. And Rhema McKnight - the leading receiver the previous two seasons before injuring his right knee against Michigan - returns for a fifth year, leaving the Irish with a strong passing game.

Notre Dame could also find some help from a recruiting class expected to be one of the school's best in years.

Weis told his players after the game that they have to decide how they're going to react to the loss. He said they could either feel sorry for themselves or they could use the disappointment as motivation.

''It's either one or the other, which way do you want to go?'' he said.

In the locker room Monday night, the Irish already were talking about being back in Arizona for the national championship game next season.

''We're going to regroup come offseason, bust our butt, keep training with one thing in mind - ending up back here,'' safety Tom Zbikowski said.

For the Irish to do that, they need to develop a defense to complement their offense. If they can do that, maybe then the Notre Dame will be able to prove it's back.

 

[jiggafini19]

Year One of the Weis Era: Offense, A.

Defense, D+ at best.

Fasano's "we" comment makes me hope he returns.

Almost 400 yards a game allowed on defense? That's scheming. The schedule wasn't that tough this year to allow that many yards.

Eliminate big plays and this team probably doesn't lose a game. Eliminate HALF of them and they still don't lose. All three losses were just about the same. The defense got manhandled.

In the end, you are what you are. What you are is bad on defense.

 

[jiggafini19]

January 4, 2006
Defense Holds Key to Elite Status
by TODD D. BURLAGE

The flight out here was fine. The intangibles were in place. The table was set.
More than a month for Charlie Weis to prepare, “nasty” in full bloom, the Big Ten struggling in bowl games – Ohio State didn’t stand a chance.

Why not relax and use the four-hour flight writing some clever anecdotes about waking up echoes, playing like champions and returning to glory? Notre Dame 31, Ohio State 24, mark it down. Bowl streak over. Everybody happy.

Then it happened. My plane touched down and shortly thereafter I got my first live look at Ohio State. In one glance, a month to prepare didn’t seem nearly long enough.

I didn’t realize that big and fast could be packaged so neatly into an entire team, or that nasty wasn’t a catchphrase at Ohio State, it’s a way of life.

Notre Dame was in trouble, especially on the defensive side of the ball. You could see it in the way the Buckeyes carried themselves.

Defense has been the problem area for Notre Dame all season, but it was often disguised by opportunism and the most improved offense in the country. Ultimately, the Irish defense was undressed by Ohio State in a 34-20 Fiesta Bowl loss that showed Notre Dame is closer, but still not an elite team.

An elite offense? Yes. An elite team? Not yet.

The point is, if Notre Dame wants to become a consistent national championship player and not just an occasional BCS participant, talent and performance upgrades have to be made defensively.

Ohio State’s superior athletes barely broke a sweat in busting the Irish for 275 yards rushing, 342 yards passing and 617 total yards. It was 129 yards more than Notre Dame had given up in any game this season and a harsh look at how much improvement is needed.

“Start being a dominating defense, not being just opportunistic,” said Irish safety Tom Zbikowski, when asked what needs to happen defensively. “Still create our turnovers but we have to start being a dominating team, three and outs all the time.”

The Buckeyes averaged about 10 yards on 12 third-down plays, 9.6 yards on all 64 plays and converted 67 percent of their third downs.

All are troubling but none nearly as eye popping as the 67.3 per play average allowed on the four Buckeye touchdowns. Notre Dame struggled just to keep up, let alone cover or stop an offense that ranked only 38th in the country. The shortest touchdown was 60 yards.

“When you give up that many big plays, that was disappointing,” Weis said. “That was one of our big goals going into the game was this was going to be a game getting the big plays (stopped). That was disappointing.”

But in hindsight, maybe expected.

The three best quarterbacks Notre Dame faced this year were Drew Stanton of Michigan State, Matt Leinart of USC and Troy Smith of Ohio State.

We all know what those three have in common: They all threw for 300 yards and of course, they all beat Notre Dame.

The Irish struggled against the pass all season. It just went unnoticed against lesser competition when the offense was piling up 40 points a game. It will be noticed every time in big-money bowl games like this and against elite teams when Notre Dame can’t simply outscore its opponent.

The Irish entered the Fiesta Bowl ranked No. 97 against the pass during the regular season. That’s just the beginning.

Of the eight BCS participants, Notre Dame was easily last in pass defense (257.5 yards per game), total defense (377 yards per game) and scoring defense (21.3 points per game).

You can camouflage some of the defensive deficiencies with opportunism and a great offense -- USC has mastered the art. But opportunity doesn’t cut it against the nation’s best, evidenced by Ohio State turning the ball over twice, having two blocked field goals and still winning with relative ease.

Weis often says he doesn’t care much for the total defense statistic because it can be misleading. True, but with all due respect, it has to count for something.

Most would agree that the best chance for Notre Dame to win a national title in years will come next season with Brady Quinn back as a senior and the offense loaded again.

The question remains, where will the necessary defensive improvements come from to make this a complete team and not just a one-trick pony?

Gone are linebackers Brandon Hoyte and Corey Mays, two of the team’s leading tacklers and the pulse of this unit.

There are some promising defensive back recruits in Darrin Walls and Raeshon McNeil entering the fray. But Walls played mainly offense this season because of injury and it would be careless to hang huge improvement needs on freshmen. This recruiting class may ultimately rank No. 1 in the country but that will come mainly on the strength of the offensive haul.

Two quarterbacks, five or six needed offensive linemen, four wide receivers, three running backs and two tight ends make up more than half the class. The pass rush also remains a concern without a commitment from defensive tackle Gerald McCoy.

Weis liked the way his team battled and hung in against Ohio State. A play here or a break there, and maybe the game goes into overtime. Then again, a play here or a break there, and maybe Ohio State wins by 25.

The honeymoon is over now. A 9-3 record next year won’t be viewed the same as it was this year and the microscope will be tighter and the bullseye bigger. Weis wasted no time preparing his team for both.

“I told them they can count on me, I’ll always be there for them,” Weis said. “… because ultimately, it really comes down to the players are players, the coach is coach. They know how bad this feels and how important that is to them. They’re the ones that are going to have to make the strides and take it to the next level.”

The question remains, is this defense good enough to find another level?

The answer will come in how this unit responds and improves to what happened last week and really the last two seasons. Notre Dame was 116th against the pass last year and 97th this year. That’s with Navy on the schedule.

Irish defensive coordinator Rick Minter once said he liked the fact his unit would get itself into the “alligator pit” but usually find its way out.

The alligator bit back this week, and hard.

 

[jiggafini19]

Be the aligator.

 

[domerfor life]

The defense sucks. Just make a freakin play. 4th and 9, 3rd and 11.....just make one freaking play, man!!! D*&^%^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Ok......I think I'm all right now. That was just totally, totally heartbreaking. If it wasn't for two block field goals and a fumble in the red zone, the score would have been much the same as it was in the previous Fiesta Bowl. I just don't understand how we can consistently get beat deep on almost every drive. 3rd and 11, make one stop and we get the ball back with a chance to tie it. What do we do? We allow a completed pass for 13 yards and then a 60 yard TD run. I took up for them this year, but that defense was badly exposed. That's why we got beat by MSU. Have we played an ounce of dime this year? Do we just not have enough corners to play dime? Why do we still have two LB's in when the other team is in a 5 receiver set? Notre Dame got exposed plain and simple. Our defense and the defensive scheme is awful.

 

[bigdon]

Be the aligator.

Jiggs, I am not sure how the "alligator" analogy fits the ND defense but let me make a comment about the "nasty" phrase the we know so well from the early comments of Weis.

I see nothing "nasty" about the ND defense. When I looked at OSU, PSU and FSU I saw defenses that relished hitting a receiver and squashing the RB that tried the outside. I didn't get that same feeling about the ND defense. Maybe it's just my perception after seeing them get beat so many times but , to me, they lack that arrogance that is essential to a good defense.

Great pass rushers can't wait to get their hands on an unsuspecting QB. Bury him. They are relentless in this pursuit. I can't find that in the ND DL.

Great corners like nothing better than to hit full steam that WR who dares to come across the middle. Many times you see the corner raise his hands in glee as the medical people come out to tend to the WR.

It might be my imagination but I see the ND defense with no "killer" instinct. Whatever happens I think the current returnees will have to get a lot meaner to make any progress. To change someones attitude is a monumental task.

 

[scooper]

Don, good point. How do you get that killer instinct? Sure the players are a big part of it. So is the temperment of the coordinator. Sometimes, a scheme instills a bit of raw aggression into a player. If the defense attacks, they will play with that mentality. Bending and not breaking sometimes leads to lukewarm attitude.

 

[jiggafini19]

Jiggs, I am not sure how the "alligator" analogy fits the ND defense but let me make a comment about the "nasty" phrase the we know so well from the early comments of Weis.

Rick Minter talks about how they've fought their way out of the alligator pit with timely turnovers.

Be the aligator. Be the aggressor. Make the offense react to you and not the other way around.

Two things are clear about this defense and have been all year, to me anyway.

1. The corners aren't good enough and need more help. This would include playing nickel and dime defenses more often, especially on third down. How much better can they get by working in the spring and summer?

2. Whatever they're doing, they're not disguising it very well because teams are going right up top all of the time. There is no reason to give up the amount of big gains over the course of a 12 game season that ND did. And the last two games saw far too many for a team that was playing games 11 and 12.

 

[domerfor life]

Rick Minter talks about how they've fought their way out of the alligator pit with timely turnovers.
Be the aligator. Be the aggressor. Make the offense react to you and not the other way around.
Two things are clear about this defense and have been all year, to me anyway.
1. The corners aren't good enough and need more help. This would include playing nickel and dime defenses more often, especially on third down. How much better can they get by working in the spring and summer?
2. Whatever they're doing, they're not disguising it very well because teams are going right up top all of the time. There is no reason to give up the amount of big gains over the course of a 12 game season that ND did. And the last two games saw far too many for a team that was playing games 11 and 12.

Our corners are average at best and why do we still have two linebackers on the field against 4 and 5 receiver sets. It's just mindboggling that all their touchdowns were of the 60+ yard variety. It was just embarrassing. Our defense got dominated in every way imaginable. When the offense finally figured out how to attack OSU in the 2nd half, we couldn't get one measly stop on defense. 3rd and 11? No problem, we'll just have one of our DL's overpursue and watch Troy Smith complete a 14 yard pass. Game over. No wait a minute....let's watch Antonio Pittman break through the left side (ala Reggie Bush) and go untouched into the endzone. I wanted to toss something, but I couldn't find anything so I just had to yell and scream while my wife laughed at me. This is depressing. I refuse to read any articles, because I know they are enjoying rubbing it in our faces and the racism accusations will resurface. We played one decent quarterback, one great quarterback, and one vastly improved quarterback and they all killed our defense (MSU and OSU especially). The only reason why USC didn't kill the defense is because Charlie kept them off the field. Maybe he should have pulled that gameplan out. Guys....that defense is awful and it's going to take a lot of work to improve it. That schedule next year is sure to be a bear and if they are not ready you can expect more undressing. We can't just outscore people and expect to win a NC. Sheeesh!! I need a drink.

 

[irish4life99]

What scares me is that I don't see alot of improvement in the secondary next year. While Walls and McNeil will compliment the needed DB's, they will not be of much help next year. I'm suprised Wooden could even speak to the press after that game. He should have just put on a buckeye jersey and went on flight with them to Ohio. If I were Minter I would start freshman over Wooden and Ndukeway (sp?). Really, could it possibly be worse? I'm not sure what's gonna get this defense going, but Minter better figure it out, and quick.

 

[jiggafini19]

Did you think this year would be worse than last on defense?

Thank God for Charlie's offense.

Kirk Herbstreit said it best after the MSU game. Once Weis gets a defense set, with his own recruits, look out.

 

[bigdon]

Did you think this year would be worse than last on defense?
Thank God for Charlie's offense.
Kirk Herbstreit said it best after the MSU game. Once Weis gets a defense set, with his own recruits, look out.

I believe Kirk also said that Weis would bring a NC to ND but he (Kirk) would not set a timetable.

God forbid, if the offense left to Weis was as bad as the defense it would take forever to dig out of that hole.

 

[domerfor life]

Did you think this year would be worse than last on defense?
Thank God for Charlie's offense.
Kirk Herbstreit said it best after the MSU game. Once Weis gets a defense set, with his own recruits, look out.

If it weren't for the offense, we would probably be sitting here at 7-5 or 8-4. It's just mind-boggling that we gave up 617 yards. It's just totally deflating. We got no pressure on the QB. 3rd and long and we have no spy there to make sure he doesn't run for the 1st down. Our DB's can't make plays in space. Our safeties play too shallow and bite on any play-action fake. Why? Because we don't have a strong front four. USC and OSU exposed the right side of our DL. Bush had a 190 yards mostly on the right side of our defense. Tressel, who vastly outcoached us, saw the weakness and exploited it to the tune of 217 yards. Notice they didn't get much when they ran to the left side of our defense. We need a stalwart DL and I don't know if that's coming soon enough. We may get a stud DL, but will he be able to contribute next year? Look at OSU's defense...now that's a defense. That's what gives you a chance to win championships. A defense that allows four touchdowns of 60 yards or more does not. That's pathetic. As you can tell, I am still seething. I expected more from our defense. When we finally figured out how to attack OSU in the 2nd half, our offense couldn't get the ball back. The refs didn't help either. Whether you tuck the ball in or not, if you catch the ball and take two steps upfield, then that is a catch. He caught the ball and fumbled it when he tried to tuck it. Nice one ref. That was just one of a few blown calls. That defensive performance just totally disappointed me. It's like we had no heart.

 

[BigIrish]

eh hem...we got beat soundly on monday night, and maybe i'm splitting hairs, but i wouldn't go as far as to say that tressel "vastly outcoached us." tressel did indeed take advantage of a weakness on that side of the line, but when you're low on talent, and make no mistake about it - we're low on talent throughout the defensive side of the ball - there's no amount of coaching that's going to overcome the deficiency. i take issue with the notion that we got outcoached. we got overpowered. there's a difference.

 

[jiggafini19]

domerfor life, you bring up a tremendous point. The opponent was running behind their left tackle and guard all year. Especially USC. But they run that same play against everyone.

The roster just isn't that deep yet. Frome and Leitko being absent really hurt this year. Talley and Brown were baptized by fire. I like Wade and Ryan as bookends. Paddy Mullen will be a good player no matter where he ends up, so I hope it is at DT. Adding McCoy to that trio makes for a nice four headed beast.

Watching Ohio State, Penn State and Florida State makes you realize how much building needs to be done on the D. Those boys can move. Time is going to tell whether it is talent or scheme, but I hope it's talent.

They have 3 true safeties coming in, but only Sergio Brown appears to possess any kind of elite speed. Gaines and Gordon are hitters, but don't appear to be incredibly quick. Their "game speed" seems to be good, but that's high school.

I'm starting to like the idea of moving Crum to MLB, Ndukewe to Apache and getting another safety in there to play with TZ. Until this class gets into position to contribute, they should maximize whatever speed TW has left them.

 

[scooper]

I suspect Bruton is going to fight his way onto the field before too long next season. He was a beast on special teams and his definately had the wheels to cover at FS.

 

[domerfor life]

eh hem...we got beat soundly on monday night, and maybe i'm splitting hairs, but i wouldn't go as far as to say that tressel "vastly outcoached us." tressel did indeed take advantage of a weakness on that side of the line, but when you're low on talent, and make no mistake about it - we're low on talent throughout the defensive side of the ball - there's no amount of coaching that's going to overcome the deficiency. i take issue with the notion that we got outcoached. we got overpowered. there's a difference.

Maybe "vastly" was a bit exaggerated. In my opinion, you don't give up 617 yards of total offense and not get outcoached as some point in the game. Now defensively, they overpowered us and shook us up. When we finally figured them out, we couldn't get OSU's offense off the field. Offensively, they outcoached us, outran us, overpowered us, and anything else you want to add to that. Ginn was open by 10 yds on the play-action. You didn't think they knew our safeties bite on PA? Ginn ran through a mack truck-sized hole on the end around. Were we ready for that play? Holmes had an 86 yard score. Once again, our boys were out of position. On the last TD, they just ran it through the right side of our defense. That's not coaching. That's their line being better than ours. Don't forget no spy on 3rd down, so that Troy Smith kills us on every 3rd and long they faced. Talley had a shot at him at the end, but he overpursued. Tressel knew that the best way to beat us was to spread us out, put Troy Smith in Shotgun, constantly hammer the right side of our line, and make our DB's operate in space. That's coaching and we had no answer for it. Maybe because we don't have the players or enough players yet, but I think you get my drift. How do I know?.....617 total yards and 34 points despite two missed field goals and a fumble in the red zone. Yeah there's a talent gap, but there was a major talent gap against SC as well. Don't get me wrong. I think we are extremely deficient on defense and the coaches and the offense covered it up as much as possible. However, with a QB like Troy Smith, you have to bring pressure or he will kill you and he did. How much did we blitz during the game? I don't know. Anyway, I just want them to get better on defense so we can stop having to rely on the LB's to get sacks and pressure in the backfield. We need better corners as well. Our corners regressed for some reason. Ambrose, who was playing well, regressed badly. Mike Richardson has always been mediocre. The new DB's may not start, but I'll be glad to see us line up in dime against 4 receiver sets next year.

 

[domerfor life]

domerfor life, you bring up a tremendous point. The opponent was running behind their left tackle and guard all year. Especially USC. But they run that same play against everyone.
The roster just isn't that deep yet. Frome and Leitko being absent really hurt this year. Talley and Brown were baptized by fire. I like Wade and Ryan as bookends. Paddy Mullen will be a good player no matter where he ends up, so I hope it is at DT. Adding McCoy to that trio makes for a nice four headed beast.
Watching Ohio State, Penn State and Florida State makes you realize how much building needs to be done on the D. Those boys can move. Time is going to tell whether it is talent or scheme, but I hope it's talent.
They have 3 true safeties coming in, but only Sergio Brown appears to possess any kind of elite speed. Gaines and Gordon are hitters, but don't appear to be incredibly quick. Their "game speed" seems to be good, but that's high school.
I'm starting to like the idea of moving Crum to MLB, Ndukewe to Apache and getting another safety in there to play with TZ. Until this class gets into position to contribute, they should maximize whatever speed TW has left them.

I agree whole-heartedly. I always say "speed kills". Well against OSU, speed murdered us. They are fast and it's teams like that that really expose our lack of speed. If a RB breaks through our D-line, he's usually taking it to the house. We don't have players who can make mistakes and still recover. OSU, PSU, and FSU have guys with speed who can find themselves in the wrong spot but still recover to make a play. If our guys are in the wrong spot, it's 6 points. FSU's defense was hurt most of the year and many of the guys they played are young pups. However, they are young pups with a whole lot of speed. I just hope some of our recruits can help. If not, we may be looking at the same problem next year. We also need a couple of big DT's who can plug the middle. Landri and Laws are tough, but they get manhandled by bigger lines which is usually all you face when you go against any of the Top 5 teams in the nation. I know we were all optimistic, but realistically this defensive situation may take another year or two to really fix. We need quantity and quality. Luckily, we have a great offense who can buy us at least 9-10 wins. We need some more playmakers on D if we expect to compete for championships. It's not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination. Thank you Ty.