More Catholic School Witch Hunting

[jiggafini19]

Illinois schools enact competitive-balance rules
USA Today

New rules to level the playing field between Illinois' public and private high schools will kick in Feb. 1, in time for the state's basketball tournaments and other winter and spring sports championships.
The rules, prompted by complaints that private schools were winning an unfair share of state titles, were overwhelmingly approved in a monthlong vote by Illinois High School Association schools, it said Thursday.

Members voted 450-143 for a so-called multiplier that will boost the enrollment of private schools by a factor of 1.65% for purposes of placing them into classes for state championship tournaments.

Supporters say the multiplier will help restore competitive balance because private schools can draw students from up to 30 miles away while public schools have tighter geographic boundaries.

About 30 schools that have competed in Class A will move up to play against larger Class AA schools under the rule, said ISHA executive director Marty Hickman.

Dennis Litteken, principal at Breese Mater Dei, southeast of St. Louis, said the new rules are unfair because students who live blocks from his school will boost enrollment, not just those from miles away. Still, he said, "We simply move on."

 

[jiggafini19]

I'd like to get everyone's take on this. Some of the best HS football programs in America are Catholic schools. I know DeLaSalle in Concord, CA was always under fire about their success.

Basically, this is coming from downstate schools in rural areas who are tired of getting their @sses kicked in the state playoffs by teams that are more organized and have better coaching. They also happen to be Catholic schools. The main culprits here are Joliet Catholic (Rudy), Mt. Carmel (Donovan McNabb), Providence Catholic (Eric Steinbach of Iowa and Cleveland Browns) and Driscoll Catholic (5 in a row).

Something to keep in mind: The Chicago Public Schools do not have any boundaries. That means Demetrius Jones lives in Morgan Park, but could travel as far north as Wrigleyville to attend Lane Tech if he wanted to. Chicago public schools have been known in recent years for recruiting on the basketball front, to the point that kids were taking hour-plus train rides. No one really did anything about it. The CPS schools simply recruited more and harder than the powerhouses.

Now, I am of the opinion that these Catholic schools aren't winning with ringers. Mt. Carmel had Simeon Rice and McNabb. They've also had 5-8, 180 pound nose tackles, along with slow Division III caucasian receivers. Nothing fishy there....just good coaching.

I'd like to get a feel for the Private vs. Public scholastic sports landscape in your areas to see what the deal is. Out of the 8 state titles, Catholic schools went 3-1 this year with the mulitplier already in place. This is the big story in Illinois this year. To me, no cut sports and the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality is setting our children up for rude awakenings when they hit the workforce. Not everyone gets a raise or the big promotion just because.

The landscape of sports is really changing on the scholastic level. Not for the better in my book.

 

[Rip Rap]

What are they going to do to change the fact that Catholic schools also produce better students, as judged by the scores on standardized tests? Oh, scratch that, they've already figured that out: They'll just make kids in Catholic schools take different tests so as to obfuscate that reality. Thank you, Illinois.

I hate public education. Seriously. I think the real answer is to make private schools affordable and eradicate public education entirely.

 

[jiggafini19]

WOW. I'm not sure I'd go that far.

Fact is, private school teachers get paid a lot less than public school teachers do in these parts. Most of those people aren't there for the big money. They are there because of their values and beliefs. Some stay, some move on to bigger money. I know my baseball coach did. I can't say I blame him.

6 state titles in football to 8. Now they might go 2 classes in basketball to 4. There are hardly anymore cut sports anymore. What are we teaching these kids? Everyone is a winner? That just isn't the case. Some kids play, some kids sit, some go on to college. That's the way it works.

The IHSA wants to please everyone. This won't solve anything. These schools will still win no matter who they play.

I guess the next step is having them play Northwestern or the Bears.

 

[bigdon]

I am not completely sure about this situation in the MD. area but it seems to me that the private schools play each other and the same with the public schools. I am not sure they ever play each other in football--they may in other sports.

The public schools are the powerhouses in football here. Usually the same teams are fighting it out. No one seems to complain about that.

There are geographical requirements for attending a public school and it seems every year a public school is punished because a player should have attended another school. Obviously there are no such limits for private schools. The difference here seems to be that the public schools have the better teams and so there is no screaming about private dominance.

The argument about public vs private goes on everywhere. It is evident that Private (Catholic) schools produce better students with a lot less money and the public schools hate that. Discipline is the reason, not money. All of my family has attended, or IS attending private schools. If you don't like what the school is doing they invite you to go elsewhere. In the public school, if you don't like what they are doing you accuse them of being racist and get a lawyer.

 

[jiggafini19]

Discipline is the reason, not money. All of my family has attended, or IS attending private schools. If you don't like what the school is doing they invite you to go elsewhere. In the public school, if you don't like what they are doing you accuse them of being racist and get a lawyer.

Big Don, you're awesome.

I went to Notre Dame HS, which is run by the Holy Cross group right in South Bend. I had teachers in high school that taught under the Golden Dome. How's that for an education? It was the decision of my SINGLE PARENT to make certain sacrafices to send me to a private school. And the IHSA wants to punish schools for this? Look, if you live within 30 miles and want to send your kid to a Catholic school for football, wrestling, bowling, chemistry or drama then that is your business.

Catholic HS are college prep schools. There are no vocational classes available. Different kids have different abilities and academic levels. My parents wanted me to attend a four year university. Just so happened athletics ended up being my ticket. But it was an easy five years because I was ready for it....and finished it off with a Masters.

You had a 'C' average or you didn't suit up. Period. If you were a jagwad, they kindly asked your parents to take you elsewhere.

Suburban public schools are loaded year in and year out, with 4000+ students to choose from. They have feeder programs and over 100 kids on the roster sometimes. No one talks about re-zoning the suburban schools.

Jealousy and defeatist attitudes from rural Illinois caused this. Try being at my school and playing in the same conference with these teams. They didn't allow 5-4 teams in the playoffs when I was in high school. We'd have made it twice. Instead, we lost 4 games by a total of 10 points. Two of those four teams won state titles that year.

Dare I say it for the first time in 2006: My heart pumps piss for public school athletic teams.

 

[NDgettysburg]

I'd like to get everyone's take on this.

We get the same complaints here regarding the local Delone Catholic High School. I'm used to hearing it.

The public schools get around the rules easy enough. Remember Troy Vincent from Wisconsin (and then to the pros with Miami and Philly among others)? Came from the run down streets of Trenton, NJ.....but attended high school in Levittown...err, well, Fairless Hills, PA at Pennsbury HS who was known for having a very good football program. How so? Oh, he had a relative in the Pennsbury school district and conveniently moved in with them.

 

[Rip Rap]

WOW. I'm not sure I'd go that far.
Fact is, private school teachers get paid a lot less than public school teachers do in these parts. Most of those people aren't there for the big money. They are there because of their values and beliefs.

Yup, and my and mom is one of them. That's where vouchers come into play. Big money from big taxes being spent on big things that Catholics oppose, with the educational hegemony of secularity preaching that it's all correct. Isn't it nice to be self-satisfied in an ideology and receive government backing? God help us.

The point is, Catholic schools are superior in religious character and academic quality, why wouldn't they also be superior in athletics?

 

[wahoo]

Situation in Ohio

Situation in Ohio

The public schools used to complain a lot here in Ohio,especially when Cleveland St Ignatius was dominating the big-school playoffs. Some of that died out as St ignatius hasn't been as strong. Some of the public schools now have what is called "open enrollment" which allows kids from other districts to play for one team. Cleveland Glenville and Massillon are two schools that I know that have it.
I think that any school with good solid coaching can compete. The kids will go there to play for a good coach. Once the program is succesfull then even more kids will go there. Glenville started to win and Troy Smith left a catholic school to transfer there and ND fans found out first hand what kind of player he is(Ginn went there too)

 

[irishwavend]

Situation in Tennessee

How did it come about?
My sophomore year of high school, we were royally screwed. One, Brentwood Academy was doing recruiting everywhere, including Kentucky, where they ultimately paid for Ingle Martin (Chris Leak's old backup) and got all private schools in trouble. This prompted an investigation where it was found out that a number of private schools were paying players. I was personally offered a scholarship for lacrosse and football to an in-town rival, but refused. Anyway, TN decided that they would form Private/ Public leagues. So, now, we have the Super 7 plus Josh Schmidt's & Michael Oher's crappy school (making us similar to the Big 10 + 1) which just joined & decided it didn't like the taste of our conference & decided to reduce its HS enrollment to move back down to a smaller conference. So, ultimately, all private schools beat each other's heads in for a state crown, while our public rivals avoid playing us in non-conference.

What does private/ public do to schools?
It forces them to recruit, because they cannot compete unless they do; so needless to say, my HS is in a recruiting battle with our more uptight rival for better athletes. Because we are Memphis and our city is different from the rest of the state, we now have the fastest team in the state...so, if you are into diversity and minorities getting a better chance and good education, there is definitely a plus to this whole thing. But, really, is recruiting what you want to be doing at a high school level? Say what you will about Fisher Deberry or Paul Hornung, but living by their statements has made us a huge state contender in football and is breaking down educational barriers that liberals claim exist due to "good ol boy" networks. Hell, just look at Michael Oher as a prime example; recruited to go to an all white WASP school.

How did we get screwed?
My HS, based on Lasallian philosophy, offers underprivileged kids money only when they can't afford tuition, if they decide they want to come to our school for the education. We don't tell them they can't play ball...and we report it. Well, we had one kid playing two sports, so we told the TSSAA and they said they were going to put us on probation. We said Fine, we will be on probation forever, because we arent going to deny kids their right to engage in all activities offered. Then, they split us into private and public, allowing private schools to recruit. We still had to sit in probation even though our violation complied with new rules.

 

[jiggafini19]

Investigations have been done on some of these schools and no wrongdoings have been found.

Hales Franciscan, a small school basketball power, ran into some trouble with the IHSA not too long ago.

If there is a sport they should be running after, it is basketball. That is where 1 or 2 guys can really make a difference. Can you really bring in 11 ringers for football? I suppose it is possible, but unlikely. You don't see the Catholic schools around here with handfuls of D-I prospects.

You see that on basketball teams and suburban football teams quite often. No one says anything about this.

 

[irishwavend]

It's funny, too, when players on public school teams suddenly have parents who divorce just long enough and hold a place a school's territory so that the kids can make it through HS. Then, after their eligibility is up and they have won a few state titles, their parents all magically reconcile their differences.