I'll play the other race card

[nayers]

During the last two years of the Willingham era, I would wake up early on Saturday morning so that I could start my religious routine of college football. I would watch College Gameday, I would watch the early games just so that i could pass the time to watch the REAL game on NBC. I am like a kid at Christmas time when it come to Notre Dame. I would watch the 12 games that they lost in 2 years, and i would be at the point of nearly swearing at the T.V being absolutely disgusted whenever they showed Ty with no reaction, just sitting there taking his beating. I would tell all my friends that Ty needed to be fired period. That mediocrity and average football is not expectable. They would scoff and laugh at me only because they simply didn't understand what ND football is all about (WINNING). The days after the dismissal, I would listen to the biased ND bashing media on sports shows and radio programs and they would rip apart my beloved program. The inevitable race issue came to surface, as people remarked he simply didn't have enough time to build a program. These people need to go and look back in the last 15 years and see all the coaches who did win in there first 3 years (Stoops, Coker, Tressel, Carrol, Carr) and drop that take.

My point is, where is the media when schools like Florida, Stanford, Ol Miss, Indiana, Illinois and others fired there white coaches. It seems like the media is focused more upon ty's skin color than anyone else. Ty wasn't hired because of his skin, and he wasn't fired because of it either. He was fired because he lost 15 times in three years, that's not expectable for a white man, a black man, or any other color man. The media along with the so called experts are the real bigots and racists as they continually ride this dead horse to the land of irrelevancy. I am not concerned whether or not your race issue sells; I am concerned with the truth.

 

[NDLyght37]

Right in my wheelhouse, my friend...lol.
I do feel that there should be a light shone on this issue. If anything the media is behind on this issue. Why are there only a handful of minority coaches in Division 1 football? It's not because Black, Hispanic, or Asian candidates aren't qualified. It's because they lack the opportunity that their White counterparts have. Most coaches of color are alienated from that "Good Ol' Boys" network, or the mainstream "Fraternity" of coaches. Do you understand how important it was that Ty Willingham was able to recieve another D-1 job so quickly? It's because so many collegiate & professional coaches of color have had success, then struggled...but they never got another opportunity to coach. This is at least a small step in the right direction.

Another point to consider is that the vast majority of AD's only turn to a minority coach when their program is either undesirable or in serious trouble. Notre Dame only went to Willingham after we got caught with our pants down on the O'Leary situation. Mississippi State hired Sylvester Croom only after they became the doormat of the SEC. You want to talk about the coaches that turned things around in 3 years? Well Stoops, Carr, and especially Coker inherited talent-rich reams...and Tressel stumbled onto the #1 running back in the country. Let's see what would happen if you sent a Stoops or a Meyer to Mississippi State, or San Jose State. I doubt they would attain the same level of success in only 3 seasons.

The bottom line is this: As long as there is un-equal opportunities for coaches of color, I hope people keep making noise about it. I look forward to the day when college football is like the NBA, where minority coaches are hired & fired on merit every year. But until that day comes, this needs to be an issue that people need to talk about.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

You guys are hell bent on talking about race. My feeling is this: college head coaches should have significantly more minority coaches - but Ty was fired for his lack of success on the field. It's two different issues.

By pulling the race card when it's inappropriate, it waters down the real racial issues surrounding sports today.

 

[BigIrish]

I'd like to offer an angle that I never seem to hear discussed. I certainly don't have numbers to back it up, and I'm not suggesting this as fact as much as I'd simply like to see if others have opinions on it, given the seriousness of the issue.

My question is this - is there an equally high number of minority coaches seeking positions as there are white coaches? Perhaps I can explain by relating it to another issue...

It is often reported that women make about 75 cents on the dollar compared to men. While this is sometimes the case, what that statistic often overlooks is other factors, such as the type of job, the hours, etc. It fails to take into consideration that women, by nature, TEND (not always) to be drawn to jobs that offer lower pay but more emotional reward. It also fails to consider the fact that some women take time off to have kids and - either through working part time or not at all - their earnings potential (when they've returned back to work full time) is somewhat dimished because they've fallen behind in the workforce, so to speak. Looking at it from that perspective, gender is still the overall issue, but its much more complex than it appears.

So back to my question - is there an equally high number of minority coaches seeking positions as there are white coaches? Is it possible that a larger number of minority athletes seek to play at the professional level after college, thereby reducing or eliminating the window of opportunity to get into coaching? If a white athlete goes directly into coaching after college, around age 23 or 24, does he have a leg-up on a minority coach that possibly extended his playing career into his 30's, but has no coaching experience yet? Are there other forces at play, besides racism or prejudice, that might reduce the pool of minority coaches?

I'm not suggesting that racism or prejudice is nonexistant in college football. Just curious if there's more complexity to the issue than what mainstream media offers.

 

[irishtexan]

im tired of talking about this. ty sucked and he couldnt hack it, simple as that. if he really is a messiah like everyone says, we will see at washington.

 

[NDLyght37]

By pulling the race card when it's inappropriate, it waters down the real racial issues surrounding sports today.

And you don't think 3 minority coaches out of 100+ jobs isn't a legitimate issue? Also, what does it say to the players when they look on the field and their teammates & opponents are of all races...but once they look over to the sidlines, it's monochromatic?

BigIrish, you bring up some good points and I tend to agree with you. What I'm saying is that the hiring process needs to be opened up somewhat. It's very easy to hire someone that you're familiar with. And a lot of coaches are getting hired because of who they know and not necessarily what they know (like hiring Shula over Croom at Alabama). It needs to be easier for minority assistant coaches to get into that network.

As for Ty, yes he struggled, but to say he sucked is ridiculous. He will do a very good job back in the Pac-10, just as CW will do well in South Bend.

 

[Guest]

The big issue here is why wasn't Ty able to do a better job recruiting black athletes, or white athletes. You would think being one of the only black coaches in college football, and at a great place like ND that black players would of been lining up to play for Ty but they weren't. It didn't matter to them what the coaches skin color was but how good of a coach he was.
ESPN and others love to attck ND for being racist, but why not attack all the young black players that didin't come or want to play for Ty. Look at Reggis Bush, he basically led Ty on. Telling him how he was very interested in ND but at the end of it all he never even visited ND. Then he says how it was wrong for ND to fire Ty. I think it's wrong that Bush didn't help out someone of his own race and commit to ND. In the end he committed to a white coach who was better. Skin color didn't matter to him then.
Everyone complains how their aren't enough black coaches (which I agree). But when one is hired, I don't see them lining up to play for him. They play for the best coach available regardless of skin color.

The NFL is more then equal when it comes to black coaches now, eventually college will catch up, but at some point young black athletes need to take a stance and go play for a black coach. If I were black I'd be vey upset at all the black athletes that didn't go play for Ty, I would feel that they should've been lining up to play for the guy.

Hopefully at Washington Ty will get more support from black athletes to go play for him.

Ihope I don't offend anyone, just my opinion.

 

[seIRISH]

It all comes down to one thing.The more they create an uproar about the less likely more black coaches will get hired. Why would you hire if you cant fire.I do agree they mostly hired him for to get themselves out of an embarrasing situation. But he was fired because he did not cut it.He got three because Davie got five.They saw it heading in the same direction.If wies does the same he should be ran but not just because they have the same record after three years.Its all about if you are showing improvement and not breaking every bad record ND has.

 

[NDLyght37]

I have to disagree. History has shown that if you want to create change, you have to agitate the system. Like him or hate him, a guy like Jesse Jackson has spearheaded a lot of positive social change in this country. So the BCA or whoever cannot afford to let the NCAA off the hook on this issue. Once you have equal opportunity for all coaches, it won't matter who gets fired.

As for Ty, the Irish did show improvment under his watch...slow strides, but positive strides nonetheless. Ty was fortunate because he is so respected that he was able to land another major gig very quickly. I'm more concerned about the minority coaches (especially assistants) who don't even have the opportunity to be interviewed.

 

[nayers]

Here's the issue...As someone who is NOT African American, i get more offended at the biased media playing the race issue, than most do, because i know that they have an agenda to sell news. TYRONE WILLINGHAM WAS NOT HIRED, OR FIRED BECAUSE OF HIS SKIN TONE...HE WAS FIRED BECAUSE HE WAS A NON-PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEE FOR A MAJOR "CORPORATION" As a business man, if i get an employee who can only do half the work, is unpredictable, unreliable, and average, and i have an oppurtunity to fire him and hire a more productive "better equiped" person to take his place...you better believe i am going to make that call...it is simply the nature of the beast...it is how we run our government, our economy, everything that relates to the bottom line. Ty was fired because he couldn't consistently win, recruit, or lead the way he was expected to, and he knows that...just ask him

 

[BigIrish]

Well, there's clearly a difference of opinions on whether or not Ty was making positive progress. Regardless of which side of the fence you're on with that issue, I don't think you can look at Ty's 3 years in a vacuum. I think you have to take into consideration the pent up frustration that probably began in the last year or two of Holtz's tenure, picked up speed in Davie's tenure, and came to a head when Ty didn't find immediate success. There's a cummulative effect at play that will likely continue to put more pressure on Irish coaches until one comes along and wins big. Fair or unfair, Ty was carrying haunted, and indirectly held responsible, for over 8 years of frustrating seasons.

Can you imagine the animosity we'll be feeling toward Weis if, after 3 or 4 years, he still hasn't been able to turn the ship around?

 

[hybriddad]

Reggie Bush, like his USC QB, should be quite and worry about Reggie. Hell, he did'nt even visit ND after leading Ty on then want s to run his mouth about how Ty got a raw deal. Ty was fired because he could not produce wins, could not recruit and in the end, he did not even want to be at ND, he had the Wawshington deal all but locked up right before he wqas let go. He made his bed by negotiating his contract and the very points of that contract that gave him and ND an out, he knew what he was doing and it made him and his family very rich.

One thing that hurts ND may be admissions (and I say that with reservation). Hopefully CW will be able to work with the admissions dept and get some of those great kids cut from the same mold as a Chris Zorich or Tony Rice, who had to really step up to the plate and cut it in the class room, but were allowed in and given a shot. I think if CW and the powers that be at ND work in that spirit we will return to the top and create some real history again and give a bunch of young men something to work hard for, that being a diploma a great institution and national championships.

Also, what a breath of fresh air Fr. Jenkins will be.

 

[Aerosmith777]

One thing I notice which is particularly interesting to me is that (generally speaking) it seems most white college football fans (particularly irish fans) look at Ty's tenure and completely understand his firing, while the BCA and other black fans look at it and see him "making strides". Now, I'm on the white side of the fence, so I'm one of those who thinks the BCA is off it's rocker when it can make a statement like "He did everything at Notre Dame except win a championship." (direct quote)

Now, here's my problem. 3 years ago were those same black fans seeing Bob Davie "making strides" or doing "everything at Notre Dame except win a championship"? & I think you can back that claim up for Davie even more than you could for Ty b/c at least Davie got them to a BCS game (even though they got creamed). See, I think that's why white people like me get this tug at our guts when we hear the race issue being brought up in this case. It just seems so hypocritical, to not give a damn when one white coach of equal or GREATER record (i.e. Ron Zook) than a black coach gets fired & then everyone gets pissed off about the black coach getting fired but no one says much about the white one. Now, don't get me wrong, I have no problem w/ more black coaches getting a chance at major universities like Notre Dame. I wouldn't have had any problem w/ Notre Dame if they hired another black coach following Willingham. I & most others just want them to be held to the same standard as every other coach. If its ok to fire Ron Zook, Gerry Dinardo, & Buddy Teevans after 3 years, then it should be ok to fire Willingham after 3 seasons. & I forget who said it, but someone said that the issue should keep being brought up until it changes. Well, yes & no. You have to bring it up, but you have to pick your spots too. Even Martin Luther King admitted to that. Rosa Parks wasn't the first black person in history to get forced to the back of the bus, but she was the one he & his organization went to bat for b/c she was a model citizen & the perfect person to hold up as the symbol of the horrible oppression that had to end. In a much lesser way, its the same thing here. I don't think Willingham is the guy you want to go to bat for b/c his record didn't show any marked improvement in any area over 3 years, and his recruiting UNQUESTIONABLY

 

[Aerosmith777]

One thing I notice which is particularly interesting to me is that (generally speaking) it seems most white college football fans (particularly irish fans) look at Ty's tenure and completely understand his firing, while the BCA and other black fans look at it and see him "making strides". Now, I'm on the white side of the fence, so I'm one of those who thinks the BCA is off it's rocker when it can make a statement like "He did everything at Notre Dame except win a championship." (direct quote)

Now, here's my problem. 3 years ago were those same black fans seeing Bob Davie "making strides" or doing "everything at Notre Dame except win a championship"? & I think you can back that claim up for Davie even more than you could for Ty b/c at least Davie got them to a BCS game (even though they got creamed). See, I think that's why white people like me get this tug at our guts when we hear the race issue being brought up in this case. It just seems so hypocritical, to not give a damn when one white coach of equal or GREATER record (i.e. Ron Zook) than a black coach gets fired & then everyone gets pissed off about the black coach getting fired but no one says much about the white one. Now, don't get me wrong, I have no problem w/ more black coaches getting a chance at major universities like Notre Dame. I wouldn't have had any problem w/ Notre Dame if they hired another black coach following Willingham. I & most others just want them to be held to the same standard as every other coach. If its ok to fire Ron Zook, Gerry Dinardo, & Buddy Teevans after 3 years, then it should be ok to fire Willingham after 3 seasons. & I forget who said it, but someone said that the issue should keep being brought up until it changes. Well, yes & no. You have to bring it up, but you have to pick your spots too. Even Martin Luther King admitted to that. Rosa Parks wasn't the first black person in history to get forced to the back of the bus, but she was the one he & his organization went to bat for b/c she was a model citizen & the perfect person to hold up as the symbol of the horrible oppression that had to end. In a much lesser way, its the same thing here. I don't think Willingham is the guy you want to go to bat for b/c his record didn't show any marked improvement in any area over 3 years, and his recruiting UNQUESTIONABLY went down. So if I'm a white AD (& the reality is most are) and I look at Willingham's record at ND, & then I see the outcry over his firing, I can't help but say to myself, "Well, I better never hire a black head coach b/c he can be horrible and I still can't fire him." I don't, just my 12 cents on the situation.

 

[bmf175]

Well put AEROSMITH you put in such a that I could not. I believe I said the same thing but what I lack is being PC. Especially in a world that cries and moans if you do not use such tact.

 

[NDLyght37]

There are two issues in play here:

1. The Willingham firing.
- Did Ty deserve to be fired? Yes & No. He wasn't living up to expectations (his OR ours), but I did see improvement. I was not that upset about his firing, inasmuch as I was upset by the way it went down. Regardless, Ty is a gentleman that i would have no problem hiring if I was a Division-I Athletic Director.

2. The significant lack of Minority head coaches in major college football.
- This is the real issue for me. Aerosmith, while I certainly respect your opinion...unless you've been on the other side of the ledger, you can't fully comprehend what the lack of minority head coaches means. There is either a lack of opportunity or a lack of courage on the part of AD's (or both). It makes no sense that in a sport where the overwhelming number of athletes ar people of color that the coaching ranks are so monochromatic. It is a situation that needs to be remedied. The fact that Willingham was able to get another D-1 job so quickly is progress, but until things are improved in the NCAA hiring process (which should be more like the NFL), I have no problem with groups like the BCA speaking out.

 

[BigIrish]

Agreed. On the surface it sounds unfair to the majority, but the current number of minority coaches doesn't even reflect the same ratios as found in the general population, let alone athletics, where minorities represent a significant portion of the total number of athletes.

I grew up in an Irish Catholic, white collar, republican family, so I'm pretty sure I'm part of the majority. But I also believe that if you've ever taken a course on racial law, and understand it from an historical perspective, you'll be sympathetic to the need for mechanisms such as the BCA to continue to erase a legacy of underrepresentation.

 

[jiggafini19]

I'm a white, 27 year old male, 5-9 180 pounds. I have no sympathy for anyone. All I have to go by are my qualifications. If I suck, I suck and lose my job. I can't play a single card other than "management was restructuring" or "difference of opinion in terms of the direction of the company." This Ty decision came down to wins and money. Simple as that. Zook got fired because Florida fans are spoiled whiners. Ty got fired because ND lost to teams they should have beaten and got blown out by the elite ones. Race is an issue in our society because many people, white and black with agendas of their own, choose to make it one. Frank Solich went 8-3 and got fired. If that happens to Sly Croom down at MSU, the world might explode.

What about the white assistant coaches and coordinators that never get a shot? Why are the same guys recycled over and over again? Why was Dennis Erickson being considered at Ole Miss? He's corrupted every program he's ever been at with rule breakers and scumbags. There are qualified guys, black, white and YOUNG, who aren't being given consideration. No one seems to cry any tears for these guys. To me, this is the real issue and problem with sports on all levels. The same people keep getting the open jobs and based on what? Ty and Zook landed on their feet fairly quickly. How many guys were passed over who have never had head coaching jobs that deserve one? Dozens, I can assure you.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I think you both miss my point. My problem is not w/ the BCA's existence or mission, its with its tactics and strategy. The BCA wants to promote more black football coaches, and that's fine by me. They send their list of legitamite candidates to schools when their head coaching job becomes vacant and they promote those candidates and all, & that's all fine and good & I'm all for it. And I'm sure if/when a firing does occur that really is racially motivated they'd be right there protesting, and that's fine by me too. My problem is when they take an issues that is not racially motivated like Willingham being fired and turn it into a racial issue to promote their own agenda. They hurt the reputation of a good university in order to promote their own ideas, & that's what I have a problem with, & not just b/c its Notre Dame. I wasn't thrilled w/ their treatment of South Carolina either, & I happen to really not like SC. I mean, if Willingham is 8-3 and he gets fired, I'd get it. Hell, even I might wonder if it was racially motivated then. But when you're talking about a guy who just completed a 6-5 season to follow up a 5-7 season, & w/ losses to BC (3rd time in a row), BYU, 1st at-home loss to Purdue since Bob Griese was there, & the 3rd 31 point loss in a row to the school's oldest rival & then try to tell me that he was a good coach who did everything but win a championship is ridiculous to me. I'm sorry but the BCA trying to get me to believe that THEY actually believe that & this is isn't all just a ruse to raise the race issue to point out other inequalities that have nothing to do w/ this situation, is just insulting to me & my intelligence.

If the BCA wants my support, & I think the support of most white college football fans, they have to learn to raise the issue at the right times. Also, I think they'd get a lot more out of being positive than being negative. Like when a coaching vacancy is up for grabs, choose that time to really push hard for a candidate of their's who's qualified and talk about what a great head coach he'd make, rather than doing a smear campaign on a school just for not hiring a black head coach or for firing one when its not a race issue.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I'm a white, 27 year old male, 5-9 180 pounds. I have no sympathy for anyone. All I have to go by are my qualifications. If I suck, I suck and lose my job. I can't play a single card other than "management was restructuring" or "difference of opinion in terms of the direction of the company." This Ty decision came down to wins and money. Simple as that. Zook got fired because Florida fans are spoiled whiners. Ty got fired because ND lost to teams they should have beaten and got blown out by the elite ones. Race is an issue in our society because many people, white and black with agendas of their own, choose to make it one. Frank Solich went 8-3 and got fired. If that happens to Sly Croom down at MSU, the world might explode.

What about the white assistant coaches and coordinators that never get a shot? Why are the same guys recycled over and over again? Why was Dennis Erickson being considered at Ole Miss? He's corrupted every program he's ever been at with rule breakers and scumbags. There are qualified guys, black, white and YOUNG, who aren't being given consideration. No one seems to cry any tears for these guys. To me, this is the real issue and problem with sports on all levels. The same people keep getting the open jobs and based on what? Ty and Zook landed on their feet fairly quickly. How many guys were passed over who have never had head coaching jobs that deserve one? Dozens, I can assure you.

I think you just hit on another important point. Part of why there are so few black head coaches is b/c the same tired old coaches of yester-year keep getting recycled, and like it or not, THEY'RE all white and there's nothing we can do about that now, unfortunately. Combine that w/ the fact that it seems that's not as much the case in the NFL, & I think that's why you see a lot more black coaches in the pros, b/c they have more of a shot in the pros not b/c they're black, just b/c the NFL doesn't discount a guy who's qualified just b/c he's young & inexperienced. I think when you start to see those older guys (finally) retiring and the assistants of today getting their shots at head coaching jobs, that's when you're gonna see a really positive upsurge in the number of black head coaches. I mean, hey its happening already. Croom got a job down in Mississippi, & I don't know what great head coaching experience Dornell had before he was at UCLA. I'm not saying its enough, I'm just saying its happening slowly. And unfortunately there's really no governing body you can petition to speed it up in college football the way you can in the NFL. The NCAA doesn't really have the same control over the individual programs the way the NFL governing body does.

 

[BigIrish]

ugh...this is turning into a circular discussion. i think everyone's gotten a chance to voice an opinion on this topic...anybody want to get back to the insight bowl and next season's team/coach?

 

[TexMexDomer]

Hey amigo;

The only social change a guy like Jesse Jackson has been interested in is the one that has gone into his pocket!!!!!

Losingham was ejected because the football program was headed for total collapse and Fr. Jenkins (God love him) saw that. I for one applaud him for his guts inspite of the sniping by the race pimps on ESPN.

 

[NDLyght37]

Hey amigo;

The only social change a guy like Jesse Jackson has been interested in is the one that has gone into his pocket!!!!!

Losingham was ejected because the football program was headed for total collapse and Fr. Jenkins (God love him) saw that. I for one applaud him for his guts inspite of the sniping by the race pimps on ESPN.

lol...I'm talking 1970's Jesse...not 1999 baby-out-of-wedlock Jesse.

And whoever brought up the point about recycled coaches is absolutley correct.

Finally, in terms of the BCA & the Willingham outcry; I think they had to do what they had to do. If they were silent, they would have been criticized for not speaking out. And in a sense, piggybacking off of a national story was a good way to get people talking about the issue of minority hirings again.

And I don't put a lot of stock in what the ESPN commentators have to say...except for Wilbon & Kornheiser, those guys are money.

 

[bmf175]

I'm a white, 27 year old male, 5-9 180 pounds. I have no sympathy for anyone. All I have to go by are my qualifications. If I suck, I suck and lose my job. I can't play a single card other than "management was restructuring" or "difference of opinion in terms of the direction of the company." This Ty decision came down to wins and money. Simple as that. Zook got fired because Florida fans are spoiled whiners. Ty got fired because ND lost to teams they should have beaten and got blown out by the elite ones. Race is an issue in our society because many people, white and black with agendas of their own, choose to make it one. Frank Solich went 8-3 and got fired. If that happens to Sly Croom down at MSU, the world might explode.

What about the white assistant coaches and coordinators that never get a shot? Why are the same guys recycled over and over again? Why was Dennis Erickson being considered at Ole Miss? He's corrupted every program he's ever been at with rule breakers and scumbags. There are qualified guys, black, white and YOUNG, who aren't being given consideration. No one seems to cry any tears for these guys. To me, this is the real issue and problem with sports on all levels. The same people keep getting the open jobs and based on what? Ty and Zook landed on their feet fairly quickly. How many guys were passed over who have never had head coaching jobs that deserve one? Dozens, I can assure you.

Thak you Jiggafini19 well said.(or written)

 

[TexMexDomer]

lol...I'm talking 1970's Jesse...not 1999 baby-out-of-wedlock Jesse.

And whoever brought up the point about recycled coaches is absolutley correct.

Finally, in terms of the BCA & the Willingham outcry; I think they had to do what they had to do. If they were silent, they would have been criticized for not speaking out. And in a sense, piggybacking off of a national story was a good way to get people talking about the issue of minority hirings again.

And I don't put a lot of stock in what the ESPN commentators have to say...except for Wilbon & Kornheiser, those guys are money.

Wilbon is a complete jackass!!! Quote" I HATE NOTRE DAME" His opinions are as vacuous as that swarthy melon he calls a head!

 

[NDLyght37]

Anyone that dislikes PTI looses points in my book, brother.
Best show on TV...now I can understand hating "Around The Horn".

 

[Guest]

Around the horn is garbage, although Woody Paige is a funny F***. The problem with Wilbon is he says he hates ND. And he obvisiouly shows it with all the ND bashing. Someone in has position (media) has to be fair.

Would it be fair if lets say Peter Jennings disliked the war and openly bashed it over the air, no it wouldn't. He would have to be fair regardless of if he approved or disapproved.

 

[NDLyght37]

Around the horn is garbage, although Woody Paige is a funny F***. The problem with Wilbon is he says he hates ND. And he obvisiouly shows it with all the ND bashing. Someone in has position (media) has to be fair.

Would it be fair if lets say Peter Jennings disliked the war and openly bashed it over the air, no it wouldn't. He would have to be fair regardless of if he approved or disapproved.

Yes, Woody Paige is the man (I think him & Michael Smith are the only ones who make sense).

As for Wilbon, yes he is an ND-basher, but on PTI him & Tony are not journalists so much as commentators...so I don't mind them being biased.

 

[jiggafini19]

I think you just hit on another important point. Part of why there are so few black head coaches is b/c the same tired old coaches of yester-year keep getting recycled, and like it or not, THEY'RE all white and there's nothing we can do about that now, unfortunately. Combine that w/ the fact that it seems that's not as much the case in the NFL, & I think that's why you see a lot more black coaches in the pros, b/c they have more of a shot in the pros not b/c they're black, just b/c the NFL doesn't discount a guy who's qualified just b/c he's young & inexperienced. I think when you start to see those older guys (finally) retiring and the assistants of today getting their shots at head coaching jobs, that's when you're gonna see a really positive upsurge in the number of black head coaches. I mean, hey its happening already. Croom got a job down in Mississippi, & I don't know what great head coaching experience Dornell had before he was at UCLA. I'm not saying its enough, I'm just saying its happening slowly. And unfortunately there's really no governing body you can petition to speed it up in college football the way you can in the NFL. The NCAA doesn't really have the same control over the individual programs the way the NFL governing body does.

I'm with you AeroSmith. I think candidates of all races and ages need to be promoted. The term is "Recycled Garbage." Athletic Departments and professional owners need to be more proactive and expand the pool of candidates for these coaching jobs. There are so many good young assistants out there, as well as I-AA guys that can make it happen on and off the field. Not everyone is going to hit the ground running, but if you give the guy three or four years...you never know.

Race is only part of the problem. Pro active interviewing and a broader range of candidates is the real issue that needs to be dealt with.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Yes, Woody Paige is the man (I think him & Michael Smith are the only ones who make sense).

As for Wilbon, yes he is an ND-basher, but on PTI him & Tony are not journalists so much as commentators...so I don't mind them being biased.

Lol, I actually like PTI on 95% of what they say, but they both did let me down a bit w/ the way they covered ND. Wilbon hates ND, and I understand that so although I think he's a little too biased, I guess what he had to say is somewhat relevant, but Kornheiser is supposed to be the one that keeps the conversation balanced, and yet he seems to never completely grasp the situation from the standpoint of an Irish fan. I mean, he was publicly petitioning the school to rehire Willingham. Even if you're against the firing, you have to understand all the issues enough to realize that's never going to happen, & to petition for it is just ridiculous.

And as far as Around the Horn goes, it is b.s. & I hate it b/c its like a train wreck, as much as I don't wanna look I have to every time its on.