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MKEagle

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Quite a hard sell to have the #1 pick in back-to-back years and not make the #1 pick.

Either way, I trust Poles which I haven't confidently said for past GMs.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Not at all....just don't see all the hype surrounding him. Honestly not impressed with any of the qbs this year but based simply on producing the last 2 years I'd take daniels first, maye second and Fingernails 3rd. Trade the damn pick, get more picks and roll with fields for another year since they're probably not going to get jack shit for him anyway.
Funny. I don't see all the hate surrounding him.

I get it coming from Notre Dame fans because that's obvious and at least a somewhat understandable reason, but he's getting it from everywhere. Social media and multiple corners of the internet.

He's going against the grain in certain respects with the Combine. Fine. Use whatever leverage you feel you may have. People may not like his answers, but there isn't really a need to go through the motions if you don't have to, and he's one of the first guys to say and do it.

I thought he stood up there and answered all of the questions that were asked of him in a mature, professional fashion. He told his side of the story, which we really have not gotten to hear up until now. There are plenty of athletes and coaches I don't like where I can probably give a good enough reason. Now that his career in college is over, I have no reason to dislike Williams and don't have the need to predict he won't be any good. Time will tell on that, and it's up to this regime to figure it out. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they're all fairly new into their run, but the clock is really ticking now. Fields is not their guy, but they know who and what he is by now. With Williams, they have to figure that out.

At this point in my fandom, I Don't really give a shit where the next franchise QB played in college or if he's universally liked by everyone. Christ, I would actually prefer an unlikable guy at QB seeing as how so many of the best ones are unlikable because of their success.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Quite a hard sell to have the #1 pick in back-to-back years and not make the #1 pick.

Either way, I trust Poles which I haven't confidently said for past GMs.
This is what it boils down to. If Bears fans think he's just another failure in waiting, there isn't much you're going to say that can change their minds. He is a first time GM and we have to let him make decisions to see how it plays out.
 

MKEagle

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Funny. I don't see all the hate surrounding him.

I get it coming from Notre Dame fans because that's obvious and at least a somewhat understandable reason, but he's getting it from everywhere. Social media and multiple corners of the internet.

He's going against the grain in certain respects with the Combine. Fine. Use whatever leverage you feel you may have. People may not like his answers, but there isn't really a need to go through the motions if you don't have to, and he's one of the first guys to say and do it.

I thought he stood up there and answered all of the questions that were asked of him in a mature, professional fashion. He told his side of the story, which we really have not gotten to hear up until now. There are plenty of athletes and coaches I don't like where I can probably give a good enough reason. Now that his career in college is over, I have no reason to dislike Williams and don't have the need to predict he won't be any good. Time will tell on that, and it's up to this regime to figure it out. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they're all fairly new into their run, but the clock is really ticking now. Fields is not their guy, but they know who and what he is by now. With Williams, they have to figure that out.

At this point in my fandom, I Don't really give a shit where the next franchise QB played in college or if he's universally liked by everyone. Christ, I would actually prefer an unlikable guy at QB seeing as how so many of the best ones are unlikable because of their success.
100% yes
 

pumpdog20

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Getting Williams and then not getting him another pass catcher would be peak bears, and hence why they always suck. Either get Williams with weapons, or keep Fields and add weapons.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Getting Williams and then not getting him another pass catcher would be peak bears, and hence why they always suck. Either get Williams with weapons, or keep Fields and add weapons.
Their plan is looking at FA centers and WR. They also own the 9th pick and could conceivably find Odunze and or Nabers available there.
 

pumpdog20

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Their plan is looking at FA centers and WR. They also own the 9th pick and could conceivably find Odunze and or Nabers available there.
Home run if they can get Odunze. Not sure I feel Nabers is as day one ready as Odunze.

I'm over the Williams debate. I'm strongly against it, because sure he can be good, but I don't feel like waiting a couple of years for him to develop. The 3 year head start is why I'm in the Fields camp. But if Williams is who they are going to get, then lets get him all the weapons he needs.
 

CoachB

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I can't see a locker room of grown men following Williams. Seems like a diva. Not worth the headache. He isn't a Manning, Brady, or Brees to me. Give me a smart QB that can read the field quickly, not one that holds the ball longer than Fields.
 

FU BK

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I'd rather the Bears not draft him.
So what changed from October 16 in post 1183 to now? Cause he sure hasn't done anything to change my mind....hell he's even cried in the stands since then which made me not want him even more
 

NDFAN420

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Their plan is looking at FA centers and WR. They also own the 9th pick and could conceivably find Odunze and or Nabers available there.
I'd really like to know what Poles thinks of Braxton Jones right now when thinking about the 9th pick and who might be available. Historically, the best LTs have tended to come from premium picks. At this point, signing a FA center (or a trade for Ryan Bates...) feels more prudent to pair with a rookie QB. A top ten and a top twenty WR as well.

WR, DE, and LT are the obvious targets, or a trade down if the prospects left at 9 are neck and neck with 10-20ish. If Odunze and Nabors are gone, what would they do? Stick and take a DE or LT? Trade down, take a WR/DE? Could they then use the extra capital (JF pick + the trade down pick/s) to trade up for the DE/WR?

The Bears seemingly have so many options right now, it's crazy.
 
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NDFAN420

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So what changed from October 16 in post 1183 to now? Cause he sure hasn't done anything to change my mind....hell he's even cried in the stands since then which made me not want him even more
Would you like some more whine to go with that nothingburger?
 

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CanadalovesND

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versatile interior player, good depth and decent spot starter

the bears signed him to an offer sheet two or three years ago, but the Bills matched

Good trade for both teams... Bates wasn't going to be a starter on the Bills, so they get a mid round pick. Bears potentially have their starting center next season if Lucas Patrick isnt retained
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Not at all....just don't see all the hype surrounding him. Honestly not impressed with any of the qbs this year but based simply on producing the last 2 years I'd take daniels first, maye second and Fingernails 3rd. Trade the damn pick, get more picks and roll with fields for another year since they're probably not going to get jack shit for him anyway.
I agree I think Daniels might be the best QB in this draft, but Caleb wasn't the problem at USC, it was the defense.

Outside of the ND, UCLA and Oregon games (the latter two after USC basically threw in the towel on the season), they scored 30+ points in every game, win or loss. Many games even over 40. That's 10/13. They had a historically awful defense (which was hilarious to watch).

I don't think Caleb Williams was the problem lol. He's as good as any top prospect we've seen at the position in recent history.

Unless you're absolutely certain that Fields is the guy, I agree with the Bears' approach to try and draft a rookie to take advantage of that rookie contract and build around a potential franchise QB. Gives them 4-5 years to figure out if Caleb is the guy, then you pay him franchise money.

In the interim, you're using that huge cap # to solidify the OL, get weapons around him, and finalize the pieces to an already solid D.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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So what changed from October 16 in post 1183 to now? Cause he sure hasn't done anything to change my mind....hell he's even cried in the stands since then which made me not want him even more
Ultimately, the probability that Justin Fields is likely damaged goods and needs a new team upon further review. I like him, I want him to be good, but there are still too many things that he has direct control over that have not gotten better in addition to the difficulties surrounding him that he does not. People like us can see it simply by watching YouTube. I think real NFL experts see it too. Ryan Poles needs to know exactly what he has in Fields more than me or anyone else, and I am getting the impression that Poles is leaning toward drafting Caleb Williams vs keeping Justin Fields. In the last few months I have come around to subscribe to this. I don't know if CW is a generational talent, but I think drafting him now is the correct move. Fields is a very good athlete and could do well elsewhere. Poles deserves the chance to draft his own guy at QB. Fields is Pace's guy and Poles was on board long enough to determine if he's his guy too.

Watching Caleb Williams at USC for the last two years, every snap. The arm strength and instinct is there. Those things can't be taught. His height, weight, etc. questions were just answered. The personality quirks and flaws ultimately come with most of the top end franchise quarterbacks, outside of Andrew Luck who was quite normal from what I recall, and I thought he did well in front of the media at The Combine. It was either a tremendous acting job or maybe we finally got to see and hear him versus making assumptions based off just seeing him paint his nails and hugging his mom after losing a football game.

So that's what changed. Time. I think the juice is worth the squeeze at this point. I don't think they're going to get any closer to a Super Bowl with Justin Fields.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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versatile interior player, good depth and decent spot starter

the bears signed him to an offer sheet two or three years ago, but the Bills matched

Good trade for both teams... Bates wasn't going to be a starter on the Bills, so they get a mid round pick. Bears potentially have their starting center next season if Lucas Patrick isnt retained
I believe he's a free agent and he's probably gone.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I agree I think Daniels might be the best QB in this draft, but Caleb wasn't the problem at USC, it was the defense.

Outside of the ND, UCLA and Oregon games (the latter two after USC basically threw in the towel on the season), they scored 30+ points in every game, win or loss. Many games even over 40. That's 10/13. They had a historically awful defense (which was hilarious to watch).

I don't think Caleb Williams was the problem lol. He's as good as any top prospect we've seen at the position in recent history.

Unless you're absolutely certain that Fields is the guy, I agree with the Bears' approach to try and draft a rookie to take advantage of that rookie contract and build around a potential franchise QB. Gives them 4-5 years to figure out if Caleb is the guy, then you pay him franchise money.

In the interim, you're using that huge cap # to solidify the OL, get weapons around him, and finalize the pieces to an already solid D.
Williams has already made millions of dollars with NIL deals. There is a brand and business element to him being a Heisman Trophy winner too. Chicago is the biggest NFL market only having one team, and Chicago is a Bears town before all the other teams. The city and fanbase are hungry for a winner. Williams coming in increases his brand. If he's successful, it only gets bigger.

I'm going to admit that I don't know enough about Daniels compared to what I know about Fields and Williams, but it would make logical sense that Daniels also comes with risks as a pro prospect too?

It appears the writing is on the wall with Fields, and I choose to give Poles the benefit of the doubt. It may wind up that Fields, Williams and Poles all wind up sucking. There is always an element of risk with nearly every player. I think Poles knows that he has to take whatever risks come with Williams and draft him number one.
 

NDFAN420

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I agree I think Daniels might be the best QB in this draft,
He isn't right now, but that doesn't mean that he won't have the best career if he's coached the right way. QBs are so hard to project, but it's fun to try. Daniels is kind of Super Ian Book at the moment. Take what Ian Book was at ND and just scale it up: Isn't required to make adjustments (in his defense most college QBs don't but BK offenses really carry the QB in that regard), is more of a one-read and scramble guy (can be fixed), has to extend and drop his arm in order to muscle the ball (don't like the V shape his arm makes), and doesn't throw over the middle (this doesn't seem to translate to the NFL very well). He also reminds me of our *current QB, only more slight with a weaker arm.

Daniels film really makes me want to draft an LSU WR.

I recently watched Purdy's ISU tape and can see why Shanahan took out flyer on him. On his highlights at least, he processed quickly and got the ball out with really nice mechanics worthy of much much higher pick (hindsight being 20/20). I think McCarthy has as good a chance or better of a better NFL career than Daniels and am not shocked that he shot up the board. But it ain't April 25th yet.
 

FU BK

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Ultimately, the probability that Justin Fields is likely damaged goods and needs a new team upon further review. I like him, I want him to be good, but there are still too many things that he has direct control over that have not gotten better in addition to the difficulties surrounding him that he does not. People like us can see it simply by watching YouTube. I think real NFL experts see it too. Ryan Poles needs to know exactly what he has in Fields more than me or anyone else, and I am getting the impression that Poles is leaning toward drafting Caleb Williams vs keeping Justin Fields. In the last few months I have come around to subscribe to this. I don't know if CW is a generational talent, but I think drafting him now is the correct move. Fields is a very good athlete and could do well elsewhere. Poles deserves the chance to draft his own guy at QB. Fields is Pace's guy and Poles was on board long enough to determine if he's his guy too.

Watching Caleb Williams at USC for the last two years, every snap. The arm strength and instinct is there. Those things can't be taught. His height, weight, etc. questions were just answered. The personality quirks and flaws ultimately come with most of the top end franchise quarterbacks, outside of Andrew Luck who was quite normal from what I recall, and I thought he did well in front of the media at The Combine. It was either a tremendous acting job or maybe we finally got to see and hear him versus making assumptions based off just seeing him paint his nails and hugging his mom after losing a football game.

So that's what changed. Time. I think the juice is worth the squeeze at this point. I don't think they're going to get any closer to a Super Bowl with Justin Fields.
Fair enough. I'm to the point where they wasted picks to get Biscuit when the 49ers had no intent of drafting him, then giving up more picks to get Fields, that I'd rather see them use the picks on greater holes. As someone else said Chicago is where qbs come to die. Sad to say that over my lifetime the best qbs I've seen in Chicago are McMahon, Grossman, and Cutler....all others have been like a wet fart in the bathtub. And those 3 are by no means impressive
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Fair enough. I'm to the point where they wasted picks to get Biscuit when the 49ers had no intent of drafting him, then giving up more picks to get Fields, that I'd rather see them use the picks on greater holes. As someone else said Chicago is where qbs come to die. Sad to say that over my lifetime the best qbs I've seen in Chicago are McMahon, Grossman, and Cutler....all others have been like a wet fart in the bathtub.
Though what you're saying is true, the key point of it all is this: All of this is in the past and has nothing to do with this current front office.

Poles is now on his third draft as a GM. He's yet to draft a QB. Trubisky, Fields, Cutler, Grossman were not his moves.

I knew Ryan Pace at EIU and I really wanted him to succeed, just as I wanted the previous GMs to succeed, but Poles is ultimately still digging out from what the previous guy did. THAT has become a Chicago Bears staple. My own biases against Caleb Williams are mostly due to him being at SC for two years. He's answered many questions for me in the last few months, though some others remain. Last season was a shit show, which I am happy about, but it doesn't change that he ultimately tried to force a lot of things knowing his defense sucked and OL had issues. I'm absolutely skeptical of the dad and there is an element of risk where Caleb may not end up being successful. I just find it odd that the consensus among most NFL scouts, pundits, etc. is that he's the top QB and overall pick in the draft yet he's being hit with a good amount of hate from multiple corners of football social media.

Whoever they draft, I want it to be another step closer to a Super Bowl. I don't care if the GM doing it went to Boston College and has a QB from USC or wherever. None of that really matters to me on Sundays in September through February.
 

zelezo vlk

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Expected to be honest. Still hope they can get him signed to a nice extension.
 

Southside Sully

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Though what you're saying is true, the key point of it all is this: All of this is in the past and has nothing to do with this current front office.

Poles is now on his third draft as a GM. He's yet to draft a QB. Trubisky, Fields, Cutler, Grossman were not his moves.

I knew Ryan Pace at EIU and I really wanted him to succeed, just as I wanted the previous GMs to succeed, but Poles is ultimately still digging out from what the previous guy did. THAT has become a Chicago Bears staple. My own biases against Caleb Williams are mostly due to him being at SC for two years. He's answered many questions for me in the last few months, though some others remain. Last season was a shit show, which I am happy about, but it doesn't change that he ultimately tried to force a lot of things knowing his defense sucked and OL had issues. I'm absolutely skeptical of the dad and there is an element of risk where Caleb may not end up being successful. I just find it odd that the consensus among most NFL scouts, pundits, etc. is that he's the top QB and overall pick in the draft yet he's being hit with a good amount of hate from multiple corners of football social media.

Whoever they draft, I want it to be another step closer to a Super Bowl. I don't care if the GM doing it went to Boston College and has a QB from USC or wherever. None of that really matters to me on Sundays in September through February.
Harvard of the Midwest Grad here too.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I can't see a locker room of grown men following Williams. Seems like a diva. Not worth the headache. He isn't a Manning, Brady, or Brees to me. Give me a smart QB that can read the field quickly, not one that holds the ball longer than Fields.
To be fair, nobody else is either, and whatsmore only one of those guys was a bonafide first rounder coming out of college and there was an actual debate that maybe Ryan Leaf should have gone before him.

Manning was the number one overall pick and football royalty. Brady was a sixth round pick, Brees was a second round pick. Brady got to start because Drew Bledsoe nearly died and the Chargers let Brees walk to New Orleans where he became Drew Brees. They're first ballot HOF and of the three only one was predicted to be as much. All three were divas, to varying degrees, once they became established stars. Caleb Williams isn't getting Manning pre draft vibes right now. It's completely the opposite, and the bad vibes are coming from multiple directions outside of the SC program and L.A. sports media market. There are legit pre draft questions about him as a prospect, then there is the presumptuous gossip garbage. The latter has taken over the narrative, and that gets clicks.

Caleb Williams is the first transfer portal QB from the NIL era and he played two years in a very large market, which Bryce Young and CJ Stroud did not. He's obviously different and has done different things. Maybe you wouldn't follow him, but to assume an entire locker room of professional football players won't seems to come from wherever these bad vibes are coming from and have questionable merit. If he is what everyone is assuming he is, then you're probably right, but to this point nobody who matters is seeing that he is the thing the bad vibes are claiming him to be.
 

RDU Irish

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This seems relevant from a year ago - not sure why Burrow, Lawrence, Goff, Stafford and Murray aren't in the first part:

Patrick Mahomes - #10
Josh Allen - #7
Justin Herbert - #6

Lamar Jackson - #32
Jalen Hurts - #53
Dak Prescott - #135
Aaron Rodgers - #24
Tua Tagovailoa - #5
Tom Brady - #199
Deshaun Watson - #12
Kirk Cousins - #102
Ryan Tannehill - #8
Russell Wilson - #75
Geno Smith - #39
Daniel Jones - #6
Justin Fields - #11
Jimmy Garropolo - #62
Davis Mills - #67
Derek Carr -#36
Mac Jones - #15
Sam Ehlinger - #218
Kenny Pickett - #20
Andy Dalton - #35

Top 5 QB Picks in the last ten years

Joe Burrow
Matt Stafford
Kyler Murray
Tua Tagovailoa
Jared Goff

Baker Mayfield
Carson Wentz
Andrew Luck
RG3
Mitch Trubisky
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Marcus Mariota
Trey Lance
Jameis Winston
Blake Bortles
 

RDU Irish

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So 50/50 your top 5 pick is serviceable or better let alone a true franchise QB for 15 years. Of course betting on the Bears to develop any of these QBs is a fair question that can't be discounted. I don't think any of these guys are Luck, Lawrence, Burrow level locks that are clear upgrades over Fields.

2024 NFL Draft QB rankings: Caleb Williams leads top 10 prospects | FOX Sports

"After nearly a quarter-century in the NFL draft evaluation business, I've learned that pure accuracy from the pocket remains the single best predictor of quarterback success at the pro level and no one offers more of that in this class than Penix."

This guy with a chip on his shoulder after 4-5 QBs get drafted ahead of him looks pretty enticing to me. Pair him with MHJr and/or Odunze plus an upgrade or the line (already big upgrade at Center) - that would be a statement move on offense. Then lock up Estime in the 5th round just to give us all that ND piece for the Vince McMahon O gif. You could even take him as a backup to Fields instead of a replacement - they are both injury prone so why not 1/2 that shit?
 
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