Brian Kelly to LSU, per report

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Whiskeyjack

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How do you do that....

last post in that thread.

You can't expect the CEO of a large organization to know everyone's job title! Janitor v. security guard, TE v. WR, potayto potahto.
 

stlnd01

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You can't expect the CEO of a large organization to know everyone's job title! Janitor v. security guard, TE v. WR, potayto potahto.
Maybe he was thinking about that 2019 Georgia game when the WRs couldn't get open to save their lives so we just threw to Cole Kmet like 18 times and that was the whole offense?
 

IrishLax

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That shit reminds me of the Caleb Kelly and Thomas Graham recruiting stories where Kelly & Co. just bricked some layups.
 

ulukinatme

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Pfft, this little gaff means nothing! They're not paying him $95 million to remember the little things! Those recruits are going to just roll in on their own, he's on easy street now.
 

arahop

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Maybe he was thinking about that 2019 Georgia game when the WRs couldn't get open to save their lives so we just threw to Cole Kmet like 18 times and that was the whole offense?
Exactly what happened. Mediocre receivers get medicocre separation
 

IrishLax

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For one of them -- I think Graham -- allegedly he and an assistant coach got into an argument during the in home because Kelly said something that contradicted what the assistant had been saying, so the assistant corrected him, and then Kelly got all mad.

Caleb Kelly I don't remember the details, but I think it was him and BVG(?) and it was a total cringefest to the point of Caleb Kelly choosing Oklahoma primarily because he just couldn't bring himself to play for the ND coaches.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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So did Kelly just call him a TE because that’s what Kelly thinks he should be or did he mistake the kid for someone else? Unclear.
 

stlnd01

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So did Kelly just call him a TE because that’s what Kelly thinks he should be or did he mistake the kid for someone else? Unclear.
If this is Malik Benson talking, he’s listed at 6’1 185. More like a slot receiver. Tho, again, BK loves his tight ends lining up in the slot so who knows.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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CJ Carr is the most recent example; he had camped here last summer and visited for the USC game and said he never even met Kelly, not once. Fast forward to this past Spring, not only was Rees all in, but he met MFMF and quickly developed a personal relationship with him. Makes all the difference.

BK wasn't a terrible recruiter, he just got a bit lazy it sounds like. The fine details matter when it's a photo finish for a recruit.
 

HouseofPain

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I often wonder when BK checked out. Did he just think ND had reached its ceiling and wouldnt progress so he kind of auto-piloted? He had to know how subpar the WR coach was when there was zero development and the WRs didnt impact week in week out. Wonder how long he had been working the other offer ideas?
 

Some Irish Bloke

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I often wonder when BK checked out. Did he just think ND had reached its ceiling and wouldnt progress so he kind of auto-piloted? He had to know how subpar the WR coach was when there was zero development and the WRs didnt impact week in week out. Wonder how long he had been working the other offer ideas?
I'm hardly a BK defender at this point but I don't know if I'd take it as far as to say he "checked out." I think maybe he got a tad comfortable in the process? He certainly had some pretty damn good classes and it seemed automatic after the past five years that ND would finish around the top 10, both recruiting and on the field. Made his job much easier; instead of selling the program, it was selling itself.

I think the difference is we were getting certain kinds of guys who were good at football and were highly interested in the academic side ("shopping down a different isle"). Top 247 or fringe top 247 with good grades? Come to ND. And that's easy enough for his assistants to sell with the draw to ND being so obvious.

Where you notice the difference with MFMF, IMO, is he is out there hustling and making relationships with guys who BK may not have even considered or didn't want to put the time in for. Makes a big difference when the guy steering the ship is making an effort to build those relationships and share with you how you fit into the future of the program.
 
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GreenGemsOmally

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I'm hardly a BK defender at this point but I don't know if I'd take it as far as to say he "checked out." I think maybe he got a tad comfortable in the process? He certainly had some pretty damn good classes and it seemed automatic after the past five years that ND would finish top 10 in both recruiting on on the field. Made his job much easier; instead of selling the program, it was selling itself.

I think the difference is we were getting certain kinds of guys who were good at football and were highly interested in the academic side ("shopping down a different isle"). Top 247 or fringe top 247 with good grades? Come to ND. And that's easy enough for his assistants to sell with the draw to ND being so obvious.

Where you notice the difference with MFMF, IMO, is he is out there hustling and making relationships with guys who BK may not have even considered or didn't want to put the time in for. Makes a big difference when the guy steering the ship is making an effort to build those relationships and share with you how you fit into the future of the program.
Kelly didn't pull in automatic top 10 classes. I'm going to go from 2021, because it's the last class Kelly had some major influence in. I pulled this from 24/7 and used their "overall rank". Here's the source I used: Notre Dame 2017 Football Commits

(Yes, there might be differences from other services but not all that far I think).

2021 - #10
2020 - #15
2019 - #15
2018 - #10
2017 - #11

Even going back further:
2016 - #15
2015 - #13
2014 - #11
2013 - #5 (Kelly's best)
2012 - #12
2011 - #9
2010 - #15
2009 - #15

He's always been consistent about being around #10-15. Which isn't "bad", but MFMF definitely has us in a different position already than before.
 

Old Man Mike

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Coach came in here having to do everything, which was what he liked to do and it worked all the way up through Cincinnati in his career. People forget (completely) that he was considered a great developer of passing offenses and the WRs that operated in them. But Notre Dame was TOO big to have a major hand in everything. We saw that here at IE and gradually IE was griping loudly about that even as Coach was building the base for a next level. But he couldn't do it alone and finally gave in, publicly making his peace with strongly delegating lots of the duties to others down the administrative pyramid. That's when his old loyalties kicked in to again hold us back. But he gradually cleaned the house on that too.

But I think that what happened to Coach by then was that his delegation persona just couldn't find the right balance. And he got a little older. And a little more frustrated about what his ceiling was here, and still wondered "if he could... " I believe that he felt that he, and ND, needed a new fresh atmosphere and so he "aired it out." IE of course won't forgive him, despite the fact that If Coach Freeman is the second coming then we should be thanking our old boss for all that he did including getting himself out of the way.

I'll say one last unpopular thing here. I have always been an ND defender as IE knows, and that includes trying to see the best possible in all our guys, staff or players. I end up admiring them, warts and all, as talented people trying hard. I was always amused by what I considered Coach's one cringingly obvious flaw. He's a football nerd. He likes to think that he's still to a degree back in his linebacker-lockerroom days, and that he could be (occasionally) "part of the boys." He's TERRIBLE at that. (Almost all coaches are.) Some of his poses with our guys in group photos (with grimly serious we-going-to-war-together face on) always made me shudder. When he still tries to "join in", he still blows it everytime. ... so too at LSU. Coach, my old friend, you're NOT one of the boys. The CLOSEST you ever might come is an old uncle to be treated with respect. Mostly, if you're lucky, you'll be an inspirational "Boss." ... not a Buddy.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Kelly didn't pull in automatic top 10 classes. I'm going to go from 2021, because it's the last class Kelly had some major influence in. I pulled this from 24/7 and used their "overall rank". Here's the source I used: Notre Dame 2017 Football Commits

(Yes, there might be differences from other services but not all that far I think).

2021 - #10
2020 - #15
2019 - #15
2018 - #10
2017 - #11

Even going back further:
2016 - #15
2015 - #13
2014 - #11
2013 - #5 (Kelly's best)
2012 - #12
2011 - #9
2010 - #15
2009 - #15

He's always been consistent about being around #10-15. Which isn't "bad", but MFMF definitely has us in a different position already than before.
"Top 10ish"
 

IrishLax

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I'm hardly a BK defender at this point but I don't know if I'd take it as far as to say he "checked out." I think maybe he got a tad comfortable in the process? He certainly had some pretty damn good classes and it seemed automatic after the past five years that ND would finish around the top 10, both recruiting and on the field. Made his job much easier; instead of selling the program, it was selling itself.

I think the difference is we were getting certain kinds of guys who were good at football and were highly interested in the academic side ("shopping down a different isle"). Top 247 or fringe top 247 with good grades? Come to ND. And that's easy enough for his assistants to sell with the draw to ND being so obvious.

Where you notice the difference with MFMF, IMO, is he is out there hustling and making relationships with guys who BK may not have even considered or didn't want to put the time in for. Makes a big difference when the guy steering the ship is making an effort to build those relationships and share with you how you fit into the future of the program.
Yup, Kelly let ND recruit itself. The good part of that? Low attrition, low number of decommits. Wasn't "selling" anyone on anything. The bad part of that? Limited recruiting ceiling and overall upside.

So he built a roster without big "holes" and then got consistent production to win 10+ games. It's way better than what ND had before, but it's also pretty lazy and doesn't have broad appeal.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Yup, Kelly let ND recruit itself. The good part of that? Low attrition, low number of decommits. Wasn't "selling" anyone on anything. The bad part of that? Limited recruiting ceiling and overall upside.

So he built a roster without big "holes" and then got consistent production to win 10+ games. It's way better than what ND had before, but it's also pretty lazy and doesn't have broad appeal.
Part of the reason I've soured on Kelly's legacy so much over the last few months is that it seems we've been giving various coaches too much credit for things that ND does well on its own regardless of staff. Like Elston.
 
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