Brian Kelly Revisited

[stlnd01]

We won. On to the next one. Chill.

 

[pkt77242]

If injuries and the other standard responses to coach criticism carry so much weight we might as well shut this board down and give up on ND football ever winning a championship. I refuse to settle for being above average.

LOL. We are 2-0 right now. You act like we are 0-2. You are the person who is overreacting. Lets see how a little more of the season plays out (like how prepared Kizer looks next week) and then lets have an intelligent conversation about it. Kizer looked pretty prepared this week for a guy who probably didn't take a single snap with the first team offense. Hopefully he looks the same next week, and if not then lets discuss it.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I just can't comprehend this much injury attrition. When was the last time anybody lost their starting RB and QB within the first goddamn TWO games of the season!? Everybody else is just cheating at this point.

 

[GATTACA!]

If injuries and the other standard responses to coach criticism carry so much weight we might as well shut this board down and give up on ND football ever winning a championship. I refuse to settle for being above average.

We haven't even lost yet, chill out.

You're getting upset at other fans for adjusting their expectations. We don't even know if that's relevant yet. What if we beat GT 38-6 next week?

 

[koonja]

Ughhh, did he play today? If not, why isn't he?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The clock is ticking.</p>— Jay Hayes (@JayHayesNY) <a href="https://twitter.com/JayHayesNY/status/642868405306048512">September 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Ndaccountant]

Wow. Not sure what to say here. I am very skeptical of BK but I cannot reason why this thread has come up now. Yea, things don't look good. But wholly hell let's wait and see what happens before we start the pissing. Remember it wasn't like ziare was some proven commodity. We expected great things and I expect none the less from kizer.

 

[ThePiombino]

Ughhh, did he play today? If not, why isn't he?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The clock is ticking.</p>— Jay Hayes (@JayHayesNY) <a href="https://twitter.com/JayHayesNY/status/642868405306048512">September 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I hope that's not a tweet referencing his NCAA eligibility. If so, coach is prolly not gonna respond with playing time lol

 

[johnnycando]

Lamar Latrell?

Odom.

And Chloe.

Kicking both their asses.

 

[ACamp1900]

I hope that's not a tweet referencing his NCAA eligibility. If so, coach is prolly not gonna respond with playing time lol

Wat? Did I miss something on Hayes?

 

[ulukinatme]

You can't blame BK for not having a real Plan B for Zaire going down. Either Zaire or Golson was the Plan B in the Spring. Golson led BK to believe he was going to stick around, the players had to break the news to him that Golson was thinking of jumping ship. BK could be in a worse position than having Kizer and Wimbush as his #1 and #2 QBs now. They're young, but they're both talented. Keep the offense simple for both of them, figure out wtf is going on with the defense, we can still win a lot of games.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Koon is leading this thread in logic.

/thread.

Step 1: Lock the thread.
Step 2: Submit as miracle.
Step 3: Pope Francis is so happy that a miracle happens during his visit that he prays to Our Lady for Zaire et al. to be healed.
Step 4: Zaire et al. are healed.
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Prophet

 

[Corry]

I think some of you guys have forgotten how bad it was before he got here. BK is a top ten college football coach. We're lucky to have him. The Florida Gators hired Jim McElwain to be there head coach. Change is not always a good thing.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think some of you guys have forgotten how bad it was before he got here. BK is a top ten college football coach. We're lucky to have him. The Florida Gators hired Jim McElwain to be there head coach. Change is not always a good thing.

^this. Kelly's teams are better than Davies, Willingham, Weis and the last few years of Holts.


Sent via tapatalk

 

[NDinL.A.]

I was going to type a long response, but fuck it, we won. I'm going to pop open another beer and celebrate.

 

[ulukinatme]

Koon is leading this thread in logic.

I'm drunk so it comes naturally.

Drink more. I have to agree with most of what you've said here as well, you've been pretty spot on. I think we could have done a lot worse than Tommy as a Plan B though, just look at who played behind him. Despite the lack of athletic talent and not being a great fit in BK's system, he won us a lot of games. We probably would have won more if the playcallers didn't ask him to throw 40 times a game. We should have relied more on the running game, screens, and play action when Tommy was under center.

/thread.

Step 1: Lock the thread.
Step 2: Submit as miracle.
Step 3: Pope Francis is so happy that a miracle happens during his visit that he prays to Our Lady for Zaire et al. to be healed.
Step 4: Zaire et al. are healed.
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Prophet

Reps, I like the switch up on "Profit" at the end

 

[WestCoast]

Kelly had luck with backups at Cinncy didn't he? How about time for that to finally translate to ND?

You're wasting your time. Every time this topic comes up (the topic is not "fire him", the topic is "BK is never going to be a consistently dominant coach") the excuses come out (i.e. injuries), or people deflect by asking red herrings "if not him, then who." They don't get it. Brian Kelly is a good coach, and by good, I mean average. 8-4 or 9-3 seasons are his norm. There was an article recently that stated since 2002, there has only been one coach (Mack Brown) who has won a NC beyond his 4th year.

Games like this will continue to happen and as BK said post-Tulsa, "YOU BETTER GET USED TO IT!"

The problem was the game plan and execution. Both of those things are on the coach.

 

[gkIrish]

I was going to type a long response, but fuck it, we won. I'm going to pop open another beer and celebrate.

Please do as I respect your opinion. That goes for anyone who wants to have an actual conversation using facts and reason.

I know the "fire the coach" post is an unpopular one. It's easy to take the high ground and dismiss the person who suggests it as overreacting or being pessimistic.

But I think I raised some points that people are afraid to address. For example, why do we struggle with teams with comparable academics?

I don't see a lot of substantive support of criticism. "We can't do better" and "We have lots of injuries" aren't substantive responses. Tell me why he is a good coach.

 

[gkIrish]

You're wasting your time. Every time this topic comes up (the topic is not "fire him", the topic is "BK is never going to be a consistently dominant coach") the excuses come out (i.e. injuries), or people deflect by asking red herrings "if not him, then who." They don't get it. Brian Kelly is a good coach, and by good, I mean average. 8-4 or 9-3 seasons are his norm. There was an article recently that stated since 2002, there has only been one coach (Mack Brown) who has won a NC beyond his 4th year.

Games like this will continue to happen and as BK said post-Tulsa, "YOU BETTER GET USED TO IT!"

The problem was the game plan and execution. Both of those things are on the coach.

Stated my opinion better than I could have. Especially the bolded. The Northwestern game was the big turning point for me I think. He completely blew the game. I don't think his in-game coaching is good enough. Player development is excellent. Recruiting and in-game, not.

 

[stlnd01]

Tell me why he is a good coach.

Because he has built a very solid program. A deep, talented roster full of ballplayers who can - and do - win games. Like today. I don't love Kelly's playcalling. I've never bought the idea that he's some sort of offensive genius. And I don't necessarily think he's the guy who's going to win us a national championship (not that he couldn't, but doing so, especially with our narrow margin for error, requires breaks he hasn't gotten). But for Notre Dame in 2015, I think he's a very very good coach, especially in the CEO/program-builder department. And I'd be very very careful about calling for his head. Especially after a game we actually won while losing our starting QB in the process.

 

[koonja]

How about a S/O for 2 games without a turnover. Honestly, if we had a top 10 DC, we'd be a lot better. BVG sucks camel dicks IMO. This defense is loaded.

 

[kmoose]

Please do as I respect your opinion. That goes for anyone who wants to have an actual conversation using facts and reason.

I know the "fire the coach" post is an unpopular one. It's easy to take the high ground and dismiss the person who suggests it as overreacting or being pessimistic.

But I think I raised some points that people are afraid to address. For example, why do we struggle with teams with comparable academics?

I don't see a lot of substantive support of criticism. "We can't do better" and "We have lots of injuries" aren't substantive responses. Tell me why he is a good coach.

He's 216-77-2 as a head coach, and he led ND to the NCG, just 3 seasons ago.

 

[gkIrish]

Because he has built a very solid program. A deep, talented roster full of ballplayers who can - and do - win games. Like today. I don't love Kelly's playcalling. I've never bought the idea that he's some sort of offensive genius. And I don't necessarily think he's the guy who's going to win us a national championship (not that he couldn't, but doing so, especially with our narrow margin for error, requires breaks he hasn't gotten). But for Notre Dame in 2015, I think he's a very very good coach, especially in the CEO/program-builder department. And I'd be very very careful about calling for his head. Especially after a game we actually won while losing our starting QB in the process.

I disagree that our roster is deep. Besides WR, TE, and maybe LB, we have serious issues. We have 1 QB left on the roster that isn't a scholarship true freshman. Our D-Line units are very weak and are one injury away from being a big problem. We don't know how to recruit safeties and can't hold on to running backs. Objectively, the guys we do have behind the starters aren't elite really elite players (again besides TE and WR and Wimbush)

I think raising the points I did shows that I'm not doing it as an overreaction, but that I truly believe he is not the right guy.

 

[WestCoast]

He's 216-77-2 as a head coach, and he led ND to the NCG, just 3 seasons ago.

8–5
8–5
12–1
9–4
8–5

One of these things is doing its own thing. One of these things is not like the others.

I don't disagree with you that Brian Kelly is a "good" coach. By good I mean he will win more games than he loses but will never be a consistent 10-2 or 11-1 regular season coach. He may have a great season once every 4-5 years. But on average he will be a 9-3 or 8-4 regular season coach. The odds are substantially against him ever winning a national championship.

Perhaps people just need to reevaluate what they expect from him. I think he's a good coach and unless ND thinks they can get someone who is going to deliver 11-1 on a regular basis, or a NC, keep him.

 

[gkIrish]

He's 216-77-2 as a head coach, and he led ND to the NCG, just 3 seasons ago.

That was the only season we finished in the top 10 and many of the players who led that team were not his recruits. 7, 8, 8, and 7 wins otherwise.

Other than 2012, our best finish in the Rankings was 20.

If 2012 was an anomaly, considering our other seasons have been 7.5 wins on average, do we find it acceptable that our best finish in our coach's tenure is 20th?

 

[stlnd01]

I disagree that our roster is deep. Besides WR, TE, and maybe LB, we have serious issues. We have 1 QB left on the roster that isn't a scholarship true freshman. Our D-Line units are very weak and are one injury away from being a big problem. We don't know how to recruit safeties and can't hold on to running backs. Objectively, the guys we do have behind the starters aren't elite really elite players (again besides TE and WR and Wimbush)

I think raising the points I did shows that I'm not doing it as an overreaction, but that I truly believe he is not the right guy.

We've lost five guys off our preseason two-deep and we're still OK. I'd add OL to the list of positions where we're fine, and I'd argue the DL has a lot of talent. And yes, it'd be nice to have Gunner Kiel and Everett Golson on the roster right now, the reality is elite QBs don't stick around anywhere if they don't think they're going to play. I don't think that's Kelly's fault.
I agree with you that Kelly's in-game playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. But overall I still think he's doing a pretty good job.

 

[gkIrish]

We've lost five guys off our preseason two-deep and we're still OK. I'd add OL to the list of positions where we're fine, and I'd argue the DL has a lot of talent. And yes, it'd be nice to have Gunner Kiel and Everett Golson on the roster right now, the reality is elite QBs don't stick around anywhere if they don't think they're going to play. I don't think that's Kelly's fault.
I agree with you that Kelly's in-game playcalling leaves a lot to be desired. But overall I still think he's doing a pretty good job.

Yes I forgot OL. My bad. I don't think the DL has a lot of talent. We are really thin and many of the guys in our 2-3 deep are project players.

 

[NDRock]

8–5
8–5
12–1
9–4
8–5

One of these things is doing its own thing. One of these things is not like the others.

I don't disagree with you that Brian Kelly is a "good" coach. By good I mean he will win more games than he loses but will never be a consistent 10-2 or 11-1 regular season coach. He may have a great season once every 4-5 years. But on average he will be a 9-3 or 8-4 regular season coach. The odds are substantially against him ever winning a national championship.

Perhaps people just need to reevaluate what they expect from him. I think he's a good coach and unless ND thinks they can get someone who is going to deliver 11-1 or a NC, keep him.

I guess the issue for me is, is Notre Dame just a 9 win type program? I think it is very, very difficult to be a consistent 10 or 11 game winner at ND (or anywhere save a few schools). For a variety of reasons (that have been talked about ad nauseam) ND is very difficult to win at. Other than a couple of coaches I'm not sure who can do it. One thing Kelly has done is to bring much needed consistency, no more losing seasons. I still think we can and should win 9 or 10 this year.

 

[koonja]

Does anyone know why Jay Hayes isn't playing? He was good enough last year to get reps on this year's team. Something has to be up.

 

[gkIrish]

Does anyone know why Jay Hayes isn't playing? He was good enough last year to get reps on this year's team. Something has to be up.

Wrong thread? Or right thread, depending on if this is a BK decisionmaking question.

 

[koonja]

Wrong thread? Or right thread, depending on if this is a BK decisionmaking question.

You guys were talking talent and depth in DL and it dawned on me. If they're RS-ing him it's a very poor decision, but that's not my point. I juust mentioned cause like I said, you guys were going through the position groups;