'23 MO RB Jeremiyah Love (Offer)

FWIrish4

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I've been thinking this for some time. The BK bashing that happens on a daily basis on IB, yet BK has finished as high as 3rd in recruiting and was 6-7 last year. If MF's first class doesn't even beat BK's last class, what does that say? While I certainly think MF had a big impact on last years recruiting, BK hired him. HC's hire good recruiters all the time.

This class essentially hinges (Bowen and Keeley) on the verge of being a step up or a complete disappointment. The two best recruits in the class are veering off course, you miss Dante Moore, Hanafin, Love, J Moore. Highly doubt you get Novosad. No good QB recruit for the cycle. It's very very possible we are just looking at status quo, despite MF's hussle to prove the naysayers wrong.
There is no way you would call this class a disappointment without Keeley and Bowen. The blue chip ratio is still 88.89% with removing Keeley and Bowen.

The only way you call this class a disappointment is because of recency bias with the amount of recruiting success the current coaching staff has yielded.
 

du Lac

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There is no way you would call this class a disappointment without Keeley and Bowen. The blue chip ratio is still 88.89% with removing Keeley and Bowen.

The only way you call this class a disappointment is because of recency bias with the amount of recruiting success the current coaching staff has yielded.
If that happens, it's a major disappointment. All we have heard for 6 months is that this will be a top 5 program changing class. MF was hired in large part bc of his ability to connect with young people and recruit. If we were going to recruit status quo, why not just hire Luke Fickell? Fickell still could have hired Al Washington, Chad Bowden, etc. He would've brought Cincy's best recruiters along too. Even if you add Ausberry, Minich, and a handful of other 3 stars we are about at the same 275 score as last cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I like MF, but if we can't hold onto the two best recruits after not being able to close on some hard leans, that's a big disappointment, particularly after having the lead and momentum for so long and hearing nothing but 100% confidence that this is going to be a top 5 class for 6 months by the talking heads.
 

irishff1014

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There is no way you would call this class a disappointment without Keeley and Bowen. The blue chip ratio is still 88.89% with removing Keeley and Bowen.

The only way you call this class a disappointment is because of recency bias with the amount of recruiting success the current coaching staff has yielded.

In know everyone's opinions are different but you are dead wrong on this one. I think Freeman should be given the benefit of the doubt but this might not be a sure of an item as some would make you believe. Keep your eyes open.
 

du Lac

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Perhaps losing all these players will serve as a reminder to the staff. It's about what you do on Saturday. If you build it, they will come.


Screen Shot 2022-07-28 at 4.53.52 PM.png
 

indianamouse

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If that happens, it's a major disappointment. All we have heard for 6 months is that this will be a top 5 program changing class. MF was hired in large part bc of his ability to connect with young people and recruit. If we were going to recruit status quo, why not just hire Luke Fickell? Fickell still could have hired Al Washington, Chad Bowden, etc. He would've brought Cincy's best recruiters along too. Even if you add Ausberry, Minich, and a handful of other 3 stars we are about at the same 275 score as last cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I like MF, but if we can't hold onto the two best recruits after not being able to close on some hard leans, that's a big disappointment, particularly after having the lead and momentum for so long and hearing nothing but 100% confidence that this is going to be a top 5 class for 6 months by the talking heads.
What were the recruiting rankings before MF? Yes he does make a big difference.
 

CanadalovesND

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I've been thinking this for some time. The BK bashing that happens on a daily basis on IB, yet BK has finished as high as 3rd in recruiting and was 6-7 last year. If MF's first class doesn't even beat BK's last class, what does that say? MF's biggest advantage was recruiting. He's NOT going to out coach the experienced greats in the game. He needs to excel at what he's best at and that's recruiting. While I certainly think MF had a big impact on last years recruiting, BK hired him. HC's hire good recruiters all the time. I hate when people try and call that MF's class. It was BK's class, period.

This class essentially hinges (Bowen and Keeley) on the verge of being a step up or a complete disappointment. The two best recruits in the class are veering off course, you miss Dante Moore, Hanafin, Love, J Moore. Highly doubt you get Novosad. No good QB recruit for the cycle. I don't mean to sound the alarm, but this class is about as close as it's ever been to ending up a complete disaster. It's very very possible we are just looking at status quo, despite MF's hussle to prove the naysayers wrong.

Last year's defensive class was pretty substantial in terms on the level of prospects they were able to land. We had an insane linebacker class, solid DEs in Gobiara and Ford, and two respectable cornerback additions in Mickey and Morrison.

It may have technically been Kelly's last class, but MF's fingerprints were all over it.. A few recruits even stuck with ND after BK's abrupt departure, largely to do Freeman.

I remember Jaylen Sneed saying, and I can not quote it completely, but he stayed with ND solely because Freeman stayed.

However, l do agree with you that Bowen and Keeley are pinnacle commits to keeping this a borderline Top 5 class.
 

FWIrish4

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If that happens, it's a major disappointment. All we have heard for 6 months is that this will be a top 5 program changing class. MF was hired in large part bc of his ability to connect with young people and recruit. If we were going to recruit status quo, why not just hire Luke Fickell? Fickell still could have hired Al Washington, Chad Bowden, etc. He would've brought Cincy's best recruiters along too. Even if you add Ausberry, Minich, and a handful of other 3 stars we are about at the same 275 score as last cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I like MF, but if we can't hold onto the two best recruits after not being able to close on some hard leans, that's a big disappointment, particularly after having the lead and momentum for so long and hearing nothing but 100% confidence that this is going to be a top 5 class for 6 months by the talking heads.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, but have you looked at the data to even back up your claims? I am not downplaying the losses of Keeley and Bowen, as they are absolutely elite players. I am saying you can’t say disappointed with the class when we are still closing the gap by vastly improving the overall talent of the roster when comparing vs. BK’s classes.

We are not recruiting at “status quo” level even with removing Keeley and Bowen. You threw out a final class number of 275 on another thread, but realistically we would be around 283 without Keeley and Bowen with projecting Ausberry, Love, Dylan Edwards (or comparable) and Ben Minich. You know they’ll add more on top of this so 283 as a baseline without Keeley and Bowen is nowhere near a disappointment, especially when you look below.

2022 - 275.44 if this is your baseline for status quo wait til you see the scores below before MF showed up

2021 - 269.05 (with 27 commits!)

2020 - 251.28

2019 - 258.56

2018 - 268.86 (with 27 commits!)

2017 - 251.32

2016 - 249.43
 

du Lac

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I’m not trying to pick a fight, but have you looked at the data to even back up your claims? I am not downplaying the losses of Keeley and Bowen, as they are absolutely elite players. I am saying you can’t say disappointed with the class when we are still closing the gap by vastly improving the overall talent of the roster when comparing vs. BK’s classes.

We are not recruiting at “status quo” level even with removing Keeley and Bowen. You threw out a final class number of 275 on another thread, but realistically we would be around 283 without Keeley and Bowen with projecting Ausberry, Love, Dylan Edwards (or comparable) and Ben Minich. You know they’ll add more on top of this so 283 as a baseline without Keeley and Bowen is nowhere near a disappointment, especially when you look below.

2022 - 275.44 if this is your baseline for status quo wait til you see the scores below before MF showed up

2021 - 269.05 (with 27 commits!)

2020 - 251.28

2019 - 258.56

2018 - 268.86 (with 27 commits!)

2017 - 251.32

2016 - 249.43
Yes. I have looked hard at the data. If 275 is closing the gap then okay. Lose those two and we are pretty damn close to last year even with JA and BM. I’m not upset with MF. He’s worked his tail off. I don’t think we are “closing the gap” until we are hitting 300+.I think if MF wins on the field this year, he will close the gap in ‘24. CJ isn’t Keon Keeley. He’s not going to visit anywhere else.
 

INLaw

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They have been a little critical of the Hanafin closing too.
But it’s funny how they tip toe around how they criticize the new staff compared to the old staff.
With the old staff, all they said is you have to close, no excuses, getting kids on campus doesn’t matter, you have to close.
Now it’s a lot of, “well, they got them on campus, gave it their best shot, nothing more they could have done, some kids just choose somewhere else…”
So full of excuses now.

A realistic hypothetical…

ND doesn’t get;
D Moore
J Moore
Hanafin
Love

And Keeley & P Bowen flip.

What will be said by IB? That class is worse than BK’s last class.
Think they will lay on the excuses?
I kind of just expect that hypothetical
 

irishff1014

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I’m not trying to pick a fight, but have you looked at the data to even back up your claims? I am not downplaying the losses of Keeley and Bowen, as they are absolutely elite players. I am saying you can’t say disappointed with the class when we are still closing the gap by vastly improving the overall talent of the roster when comparing vs. BK’s classes.

We are not recruiting at “status quo” level even with removing Keeley and Bowen. You threw out a final class number of 275 on another thread, but realistically we would be around 283 without Keeley and Bowen with projecting Ausberry, Love, Dylan Edwards (or comparable) and Ben Minich. You know they’ll add more on top of this so 283 as a baseline without Keeley and Bowen is nowhere near a disappointment, especially when you look below.

2022 - 275.44 if this is your baseline for status quo wait til you see the scores below before MF showed up

2021 - 269.05 (with 27 commits!)

2020 - 251.28

2019 - 258.56

2018 - 268.86 (with 27 commits!)

2017 - 251.32

2016 - 249.43

Love is not coming here.
 

ThePiombino

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Guys, we can talk about class rankings until we're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that typically (exception: Georgia) ELITE teams -- team that vie for a natty -- are led by ELITE QBs. We want to take the next step, sure we need to raise the talent floor, land the occasional 5* at various positions groups, but what we need...what we really need...is elite QB play. Sorry, but you're not getting that from Clark, Pyne, Angeli, whoever the hell we're trending for this cycle. TBD on Buchner (I think the potential for him to be ELITE is certainly there). Carr is huge, but that's kicking the QB can down the road 2-3 seasons minimum before he's a factor (assuming he's not a bust). We need to do better at recruiting that position in particular. Hopefully the staff learned their lesson after this cluster-f of a cycle.
 

NDMatt91

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Guys, we can talk about class rankings until we're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that typically (exception: Georgia) ELITE teams -- team that vie for a natty -- are led by ELITE QBs. We want to take the next step, sure we need to raise the talent floor, land the occasional 5* at various positions groups, but what we need...what we really need...is elite QB play. Sorry, but you're not getting that from Clark, Pyne, Angeli, whoever the hell we're trending for this cycle. TBD on Buchner (I think the potential for him to be ELITE is certainly there). Carr is huge, but that's kicking the QB can down the road 2-3 seasons minimum before he's a factor (assuming he's not a bust). We need to do better at recruiting that position in particular. Hopefully the staff learned their lesson after this cluster-f of a cycle.
Paging Tommy Rees.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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IF ND gets Love, I'm trying to decide what is better...

1) Limar, Love, Hannafin
2) Limar, Love, Edwards

I still want Ronan, but Edwards gives ND way more versatility
 

Domina Nostra

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Guys, we can talk about class rankings until we're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that typically (exception: Georgia) ELITE teams -- team that vie for a natty -- are led by ELITE QBs. We want to take the next step, sure we need to raise the talent floor, land the occasional 5* at various positions groups, but what we need...what we really need...is elite QB play. Sorry, but you're not getting that from Clark, Pyne, Angeli, whoever the hell we're trending for this cycle. TBD on Buchner (I think the potential for him to be ELITE is certainly there). Carr is huge, but that's kicking the QB can down the road 2-3 seasons minimum before he's a factor (assuming he's not a bust). We need to do better at recruiting that position in particular. Hopefully the staff learned their lesson after this cluster-f of a cycle.

Haha! I tend to agree, but this is a bad year to call that a bottom-line argument.

Stetson Bennett - 5'11", 170 lb., unranked 2-star. Won the NC and is projected to go undrafted because he is a gamer with a low ceiling.

We just need a Phil J-level prospect every year.
 

PutuporShutup

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There is no way you would call this class a disappointment without Keeley and Bowen. The blue chip ratio is still 88.89% with removing Keeley and Bowen.

The only way you call this class a disappointment is because of recency bias with the amount of recruiting success the current coaching staff has yielded.
Disappointment because you couldn’t hold your top players…. Freeman’s strength isn’t game day coaching … he needs talent around him to be successful
 

PutuporShutup

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Guys, we can talk about class rankings until we're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that typically (exception: Georgia) ELITE teams -- team that vie for a natty -- are led by ELITE QBs. We want to take the next step, sure we need to raise the talent floor, land the occasional 5* at various positions groups, but what we need...what we really need...is elite QB play. Sorry, but you're not getting that from Clark, Pyne, Angeli, whoever the hell we're trending for this cycle. TBD on Buchner (I think the potential for him to be ELITE is certainly there). Carr is huge, but that's kicking the QB can down the road 2-3 seasons minimum before he's a factor (assuming he's not a bust). We need to do better at recruiting that position in particular. Hopefully the staff learned their lesson after this cluster-f of a cycle.
Agree…. 2 cycles imho
 

PutuporShutup

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Haha! I tend to agree, but this is a bad year to call that a bottom-line argument.

Stetson Bennett - 5'11", 170 lb., unranked 2-star. Won the NC and is projected to go undrafted because he is a gamer with a low ceiling.

We just need a Phil J-level prospect every year.
Georgia had experienced nfl talent at every single offensive and defensive position other than qb… we aren’t close to that
 

NDMatt91

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IF ND gets Love, I'm trying to decide what is better...

1) Limar, Love, Hannafin
2) Limar, Love, Edwards

I still want Ronan, but Edwards gives ND way more versatility
Wouldn’t they take all 3 of Love, Hanafin, and Edwards since they will play different positions? Love at RB, Hanafin at outside WR, and Edwards in that Slot/HB role similar to Theo Riddick.
 

ThePiombino

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Haha! I tend to agree, but this is a bad year to call that a bottom-line argument.

Stetson Bennett - 5'11", 170 lb., unranked 2-star. Won the NC and is projected to go undrafted because he is a gamer with a low ceiling.

We just need a Phil J-level prospect every year.
Fair enough, and that's why I said Georgia was the exception. Until we can field a defense as legit as Georgia's, there's even more pressure to land elite QBs more years than not.
 

Domina Nostra

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Haha! I tend to agree, but this is a bad year to call that a bottom-line argument.

Stetson Bennett - 6'0", 175 lb., unranked 2-star

Fair enough, and that's why I said Georgia was the exception. Until we can field a defense as legit as Georgia's, there's even more pressure to land elite QBs more years than not.

Right, we need an elite QB more than those schools because there is ZERO chance that we can maintain an Tier-1 SEC/OSU-level roster.

We can definitely improve recruiting on a year-to-year basis, but some kids will NEVER come to ND for obvious reasons, meaning we are picking from a smaller pool with less room for error.
 

ThePiombino

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Right, we need an elite QB more than those schools because there is ZERO chance that we can maintain an Tier-1 SEC/OSU-level roster.

We can definitely improve recruiting on a year-to-year basis, but some kids will NEVER come to ND for obvious reasons, meaning we are picking from a smaller pool with less room for error.
Which makes our '23 cycle at QB even more head scratching. Literally no room for error, yet here we are...
 

ThePiombino

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We have nothing but room for error in 2023 lol, what are you talking about?
So you're saying we can afford to not land an elite QB this cycle? Based on what? Our only "elite" QB in the roster is yet to prove anything and then next "elite" QB won't even be on campus for two more seasons. Where is the room for error with '23 QB?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

arndtjc

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Disappointment because you couldn’t hold your top players…. Freeman’s strength isn’t game day coaching … he needs talent around him to be successful

Is this satire??

He rose this quickly through the ranks solely based on his gameday coaching. You don’t have this kind of rise without being a good xs and os gameday guy. You, me, no one else knows what this product is going to look like at full bloom, but to say he’s not a gameday coach is absolutely laughable at this point
 

Whiskeyjack

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Disappointment because you couldn’t hold your top players…. Freeman’s strength isn’t game day coaching … he needs talent around him to be successful
You're gonna get timed out if you don't get a grip here very quickly. IE is not a support group for your anxieties about the team, and these irrational outbursts of yours are starting to seriously lower the level of discourse.
 

NDPhilly

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100% of people on this board would have signed up for 275 on the 247 composite when he was hired.

Freeman is a first year head coach with zero track record. What coordinator in CFB history has signed a top 3 class in year one after making that jump?
 
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