2015 Position Changes

Irish Fam

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There has been a lot of recent talk about position changes so I thought we could condense it into one thread. Kelly seems to move guys around every offseason. And the majority of these position changes have had a very positive impact.

Off the top of my head:
Farley - WR to DB
Carlisle - RB to Slot
Prosise - Safety to Slot
Onwualu - WR to Safety to LB
Niklas - LB to TE
B. Jackson - WR to CB

This isn't even including the placement of a recruit like Russell at CB when he was considered by nearly everyone to be a RB coming out of high school.

So, with that being said, who do we think will be in a new position this spring/fall?
 

IrishLax

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Devin Butler CB to FS.

I think Butler or White has to end up at FS. I also could see either Turner or Onwualu ending up at SS.

Jaylon has got to be moved to SAM. If this doesn't happen I'll be perplexed. He's a perfect fit for SAM. Only way I see him not moving is if Schmidt's injury is really, really bad.

Does Farley to safety count as a move? Because that's definitely happening.
 

GBdomer

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Farley needs to play what he played last year
Ashton White to safety I can't see him playing corner
Devin Butler to FS
Tiassum to OG

Moving Onawaulu again to another position I just think would slow down his development. Three different spots in three different years?
 

NDPhilly

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Not sure about moving Butler to FS he seems like a good fit but then id be concerned with our CB depth after Kei leaves.
 

GBdomer

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Not sure about moving Butler to FS he seems like a good fit but then id be concerned with our CB depth after Kei leaves.

Cole Luke is quietly one of our better players, plus staff LOVES Nick Watkins. It's not really loaded with bodies but I think we are ok there
 
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koonja

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Not sure about moving Butler to FS he seems like a good fit but then id be concerned with our CB depth after Kei leaves.

I think KVR, Luke, with Watkins and Crawford being the 3/4th corners is pretty solid. If we have to play a 5th, it's going to be someone who's not very good, but then again, outside of Bama, who fields 5 good corners. I like our top 4 a lot evem if Butler moves.
 

Rocket89

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I'll be a little surprised if Jaylon moves to SAM. That idea is born out of fans trying to get Morgan on the field as a starter, more than anything else.

The WILL linebacker should be your most athletic player at the position with the best speed. That's Jaylon Smith. I wouldn't move Jaylon for these reasons:

1) He'd be learning his third position in three years.

2) The SAM spot is typically for someone a little bigger and stronger.

3) We played a lot of snaps without a SAM last year.

4) Running with tight ends and containing the run (more often) are a wastes of his talents.

5) Teams can run away from Jaylon more at SAM, we saw this a lot in 2013 from the DOG position. At WILL he can play from inside out and is more difficult to scheme around.

The only reason moving Jaylon to SAM is appealing is to make him a more effective blitzer. I just don't see the need to move him, most especially while Schmidt is going to be out at least until the summer and a nickel tandem of Farley/Crawford are going to bring a lot to the table in a SAM-less scheme that the defense showed a lot of comfort in last year.
 
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bkess8

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So is moving Justin Brent to the defensive side of the ball out of the question?
 

IrishLax

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I'll be a little surprised if Jaylon moves to SAM. That idea is born out of fans trying to get Morgan on the field as a starter, more than anything else.

Not really, at all. It's from how Smith is wasted in a mostly-ILB role right now. When Schmidt was playing they freed up Jaylon some more to attack and he made some great plays, but even then he's largely wasted. His skills do not fit what he's currently asked to do.

The WILL linebacker should be your most athletic player at the position with the best speed. That's Jaylon Smith.

In most 4-3 defenses, absolutely. With how BVG ran the defense last year, this is incorrect on many levels.

I wouldn't move Jaylon for these reasons:

1) He'd be learning his third position in three years. Not really, it's all variations of outside linebacking.

2) The SAM spot is typically for someone a little bigger and stronger. Not how BVG uses it, it's not.

3) We played a lot of snaps without a SAM last year. Exactly, but that wouldn't be the case with Jaylon. He'd be able to play more reps there, and when you're forced to go nickel then you can slide him back to WILL for that type of down because in that situation it actually makes sense for him to play WILL.

4) Running with tight ends and containing the run (more often) are a wastes of his talents. How exactly is eliminating the TE with blanket coverage allowing your DBs to do XYZ without worrying about that player a waste? And alternatively, he rushes the passer out of that spot.

5) Teams can run away from Jaylon more at SAM, we saw this a lot in 2013 from the DOG position. At WILL he can play from inside out and is more difficult to scheme around. Not really, it makes him much easier to account for. You run right at him and take him out with a blocker because he isn't going to be the strongest at point of attack. Right now, playing "inside out" means getting swallowed up or overrunning the play.

Response above.

The only reason moving Jaylon to SAM is appealing is to make him a more effective blitzer. I just don't see the need to move him, most especially while Schmidt is going to be out at least until the summer and a nickel tandem of Farley/Crawford are going to bring a lot to the table in a SAM-less scheme that the defense showed a lot of comfort in last year.

Rushing the passer is a huge freaking deal on defense. This isn't small potatoes. And counting on a guy who is a true frosh and another who will at minimum be providing "depth" at safety to 'bring a lot to the table' doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially because in a variable defense there is no reason why he can't flop back and forth between SAM and WILL on a given down.
 

Domina Nostra

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Not sure about moving Butler to FS he seems like a good fit but then id be concerned with our CB depth after Kei leaves.

I agree with you for the Spring, that's why I think he will split reps with Farley until the fall. By fall, he is going to be 5th best CB on the roster (Luke, Russell, Watkins, Crawford) may be even the 6th (Coleman looks like a stud). Plus we'll have White.

I think Butler is a very good DB, but not a great cover corner, which is what BVG wants. So I think safety is his best shot to play significant minutes. Lucky for him, because we NEED safeties.

I would move Brent just because Kelly's WR collection can afford to take a hit, and I don't see him passing any of the big targets.

Tranquil also needs to stay as a 215 lb. DB.

I agree with Lax when it comes to Jaylon. Let him use his speed more, and worry about linemen less!
 

NDPhilly

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I think Brent's potential at WR is to high to move him. I think we forget that he was a composite top 100 prospect.
 

Rocket89

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Not really, at all. It's from how Smith is wasted in a mostly-ILB role right now. When Schmidt was playing they freed up Jaylon some more to attack and he made some great plays, but even then he's largely wasted. His skills do not fit what he's currently asked to do.

Yes, really. I don't understand how 111 tackles, 9 TFL, 3.5 sacks, and 7 QB hurries is mostly/largely a waste. Freeing up Jaylon is the whole point of him playing WILL, as it is in almost every 4-3 defense. He was able to put up that production--with all those injuries and the front not being able to consistently keep him unblocked--think of what he could do with a healthy defense eating blocks and letting him get to the ball.

In most 4-3 defenses, absolutely. With how BVG ran the defense last year, this is incorrect on many levels.

There's a reason--and the staff talked about it a lot before the season--why Jaylon was moved to WILL.

Not really, it's all variations of outside linebacking.

It's another position switch. Let's not poo poo the impact.

Not how BVG uses it, it's not.

It is when we play a team with a lot of beef on offense. While Onwualu may be lighter than Jaylon he's packs more punch and physicality.

Exactly, but that wouldn't be the case with Jaylon. He'd be able to play more reps there, and when you're forced to go nickel then you can slide him back to WILL for that type of down because in that situation it actually makes sense for him to play WILL.

This is not a convincing argument, especially since he doesn't fit WILL but 'could move back there anyway' in nickel situations. Seems like a lot of jerking around of your most talented defender.

How exactly is eliminating the TE with blanket coverage allowing your DBs to do XYZ without worrying about that player a waste? And alternatively, he rushes the passer out of that spot.

Plenty of reasons. Some teams don't use a tight end all that much. Other teams don't really have a threatening tight end. If an offense goes 4-wide you're (more often) turning Jaylon into a glorified defensive back, or making him set the edge (more often) and get eaten up by blocks. Moreover, we saw in 2013 what teams will do when Jaylon is outside the tackles. It's tantalizing to think of him as a terror pass rusher from SAM but not so much when he's covering a pass catcher while disappearing from games and never around the ball for whole quarters at a time---for example, kind of what happened with Onwualu when he was on the field.

Not really, it makes him much easier to account for. You run right at him and take him out with a blocker because he isn't going to be the strongest at point of attack. Right now, playing "inside out" means getting swallowed up or overrunning the play.

I don't think it's a fair argument to assume Jaylon is moving because no one in front of him is going to do their job. Have the defensive front keep blocks off Jaylon and he's best suited at WILL.

Rushing the passer is a huge freaking deal on defense. This isn't small potatoes. And counting on a guy who is a true frosh and another who will at minimum be providing "depth" at safety to 'bring a lot to the table' doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially because in a variable defense there is no reason why he can't flop back and forth between SAM and WILL on a given down.

Rushing the passer is a huge deal. Guess who tied for the lead in sacks and led the team in tackles for loss from the WILL position last year?

And why doesn't it make sense to rely on your 5th-year senior who started at nickel?

Jaylon is fully capable of 120+ tackles, half a dozen sacks, and 15 TFL's next year from the WILL position. That's moderate to good improvement for him next year. I highly doubt the staff moves their best athlete from WILL, with Schmidt injured, and with the nickel position having experience.
 
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NDPhilly

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If Coleman is the real deal like I think he is I think we could get away with:

1. Kei
2. Cole
3. Watkins
4. Crawford
5. Coleman

gonna need two CBs next class tho
 

IrishLax

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Yes, really. I don't understand how 111 tackles, 9 TFL, 3.5 sacks, and 7 QB hurries is mostly/largely a waste. Freeing up Jaylon is the whole point of him playing WILL, as it is in almost every 4-3 defense. He was able to put up that production--with all those injuries and the front not being able to consistently keep him unblocked--think of what he could do with a healthy defense eating blocks and letting him get to the ball.

It is when the player has his skills. Those numbers aren't even in the top 100 in CFB. Not top 100 in TFL, not top 100 in sacks. Do you think an outside linebacker with Jaylon's skills shouldn't be at least in the top 100 in negative play production?

Instead, he's being used mainly as an inside backer. "Inside-out" really means "not playing far enough on the edge where his athleticism can really be a factor." But hey, he was 59th in tackles per game so at least we're getting mediocre inside linebacker production from our all-world OLB recruit...
 

EuropeanDomer

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CJ Prosise to safety. It is unlikely because he does his job in the slot but he will never be a natural receiver. Terrible ball skills and body catcher with some ugly drops. I think he would be a beast playing safety, he looks very aggresive and good tackler in special teams and he arrived to ND as a defensive player.

I would not mind to see Redfield as WR, i have been saying in his thread since HS that he looked better as a WR. It's a Juju type of athlete capable play safety and WR. But with the depth chart at safety, it is almost impossible.
 

IrishLax

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CJ Prosise to safety. It is unlikely because he does his job in the slot but he will never be a natural receiver. Terrible ball skills and body catcher with some ugly drops. I think he would be a beast playing safety, he looks very aggresive and good tackler in special teams and he arrived to ND as a defensive player.

I would not mind to see Redfield as WR, i have been saying in his thread since HS that he looked better as a WR. It's a Juju type of athlete capable play safety and WR. But with the depth chart at safety, it is almost impossible.

Probably the biggest personnel mistake ND coaches ever made was moving Prosise from safety. But at the time the move was made, I understand the logic. He has legitimate NFL potential at safety but doesn't have the hands for WR.
 

Rocket89

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It is when the player has his skills. Those numbers aren't even in the top 100 in CFB. Not top 100 in TFL, not top 100 in sacks. Do you think an outside linebacker with Jaylon's skills shouldn't be at least in the top 100 in negative play production?

Instead, he's being used mainly as an inside backer. "Inside-out" really means "not playing far enough on the edge where his athleticism can really be a factor." But hey, he was 59th in tackles per game so at least we're getting mediocre inside linebacker production from our all-world OLB recruit...

Yeah, I just don't get where you're coming from. Those stats are very good for a true sophomore WILL linebacker playing in a new defense at a new position without much help during the second half of the season.

So you want to chase stats with Jaylon while moving him to a new position, jerking him back inside whenever no big deal, turn the SAM from a minimally used position into a position with a huge role, find a replacement who won't be better than Jaylon at WILL, work through spring without Schmidt's experience and leadership next to the WILL spot, decrease the nickel spot when they're using that alignment more than ever, and minimize a returning starting senior who played well last year?

Sounds like a solution in search of a boat load of problems that I know I wouldn't want to be working through knowing how important 2015 is going to be. Even if we can agree to disagree that Jaylon fits better at SAM, I find it really hard to to see the pay-off with all the questions that would arise if you move him.
 

TheTurningPoint

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Jaylon to SAM makes a lot of sense.

Kid was productive at WILL this year, but he literally disappeared at times. Playing physical isnt his game. He is a finesse player that uses his speed and athleticism to make plays. Getting him out in space vs being in the middle of things is great for him.

Onwualu definitely improved throughout the year and had some rough moments as expected. Not sure why so many feel like he needs or could be moved to SS. Onwualu is a downhill kid. He will get torched at SS on playaction. Keep him at SAM and let Jaylon have a breather every now and then. BVG can utilize Onwualu in Nickel situations too. He is only going to get better at LB the more reps he gets.

Nyles Morgan. He is the opposite of Jaylon and his game is built on playing physical vs finesse. If Schmidt comes back, then slide him over to a WILL role and let him bang bodies and learn the defense. It keeps the pressure off him of making calls and just letting him make plays.

Morgan, Schmidt, Smith is a better combo than Smith, Schmidt and Onwualu in my opinion. Onwualu gives a lot of flexibility and Grace, Randolph, Deeb, Martini, and the frosh provide a LOT of quality depth.

Justin Brent in high school wasn't a very good safety. He was flat footed and covering space isnt his forte. If he can continue to develop, Notre Dame has a good prospect at WR.

Prosise to safety at this point just doesnt make sense. Moving your best slot wr to defense, where he hasnt played for essentially 3 years isnt doing him or the team any favors.
 

stlnd01

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The Brent to safety talk confuses me. Yes he's athletic enough. But he may be probably our best young WR prospect and we need those too.
I kind of wonder if we wouldn't have been better off sticking with Prosise at safety and Onwualu at WR, but the ship has probably sailed on both of those.
If we're going to move someone from O to D, why not someone from the super-deep younger classes of offensive linemen? Thinking either Mustipher or Montelus.
 

pkt77242

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The Brent to safety talk confuses me. Yes he's athletic enough. But he may be probably our best young WR prospect and we need those too.
I kind of wonder if we wouldn't have been better off sticking with Prosise at safety and Onwualu at WR, but the ship has probably sailed on both of those.
If we're going to move someone from O to D, why not someone from the super-deep younger classes of offensive linemen? Thinking either Mustipher or Montelus.

Why? I think we have plenty of depth at DT. Jones and Day are very good starters. Cage is a good run stuffer, and then you have Jay Hayes and Jacob Matuska. We also have Mokwuah who redshirted last year (or preserved a year of eligibility if you prefer), with Tillery and Dew-Treadway as EEs.
 

Luckylucci

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Why? I think we have plenty of depth at DT. Jones and Day are very good starters. Cage is a good run stuffer, and then you have Jay Hayes and Jacob Matuska. We also have Mokwuah who redshirted last year (or preserved a year of eligibility if you prefer), with Tillery and Dew-Treadway as EEs.

Yea, plenty of depth at DT. Add Jonathan Bonner at DT as well, I think he'll be fun to watch during spring and summer ball. Also, Rochelle will get some snaps there as well. Definitely the deepest the unit has been, with what I think will be functional depth, in a long long time.
 

ThePiombino

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I think Brent's potential at WR is to high to move him. I think we forget that he was a composite top 100 prospect.

I agree with this. I definitely think Brent is the most likely to maximize success after a change of side-of-ball, BUT I also think he has, by far, the highest ceiling of any receivers currently on the roster. This is no offense to Fuller. Brent COULD be that dominant, Floyd-esque, take-over-the-game type receiver. He has those kinds of physical tools. I wouldn't move him based on that. If he can't sniff the field this year maybe consider the move for next season.
 
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