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Old 02-05-2014, 02:21 PM   #1037
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Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post
This class is the most underrated class we've ever had since I've followed recruiting. You guys know I'm pessimistic, and I'm not just saying this to say it. There are practically no headcases in this class. Almost every single kid has the mindset you need to succeed here... there are hardly any that I look at and see the typical red flags.

Tremendous quality across the board, and a large amount of really undervalued guys. I believe Brent is going to be a star. I think Weishar, if he bulks up, could be absolutely ridiculous as a TE. Trumbetti is one hell of an athlete... he has 5 athleticism, but he's white playing DE so #Rivals3 Quenton Nelson might not have a "prototypical" OT build, but he is an unbelievable prospect. You know who else didn't have a prototypical OT build? Zach Martin. Yeah, I went there.

Needs? Got a top 5 ILB in Morgan + Martini + Sykes. Yeah, that's a home run. Interior DL? Really the only position I don't think we hit "great"... but we did address it pretty darn well if you consider Jay Hayes playing inside in a 4-3.

Anyways... just think this is a truly great class. A lot of underappreciated guys like Kolin Hill and Johnny Williams who have absurd upside. A lot of great mindset guys, not #BangBang. A lot of talent top to bottom. No gamebreaker Jabrill Peppers type guys... but it has everything else. And you can win a LOT of football games by having a tough, talented, focused football team without superstars (see: MSU, Stanford, KSU, etc. etc. etc.)
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:23 PM   #1038
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:27 PM   #1039
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I'm done with this class....moving on to 2015 and the longing for young men who are Juniors in high school once again. God I feel like a creep lol.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:19 PM   #1040
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Originally Posted by Old Man Mike View Post
Please forgive the following ramble: speaking here of numbers and ultimate quality starting players.

About recruiting and the long term --- I stated my unpopular opinion that, given the unpredictability of actual college performance by recruited high schoolers, one COULD take the view [as a fan] that a recruiting class is a good class if it produces around 9-10 starters by Junior/Senior years [therefore you would have about 19 solid veterans on your 22+specialists starting roster] and several other contributing players [i.e. decent back-ups].

One COULD judge the success of the recruiting of a given year by seeing whether years produced that standard or not. This judgement would go for classes already juniors or seniors, but younger classes would have to undergo a more guesswork judgement.

The 2010 class was Coach'e first, and he did as well as one could expect. Nix, Lombard, Jones, Shembo, Collinsworth, Jackson, Rees, and Spond {8} ultimately started, and Schwenke became a sometimes starter. What the class didn't have was depth [understandably] with only guys like DSmith, Utupo, LWood, Hendrix, Moore, Welch. Still, not bad for a scramble.

2011 was a knockout despite the odd losses. Tuitt, Golson, Niklas, Grace, McDaniel, GAIII, Daniels, Farley, NMart, Koyack, Brindza, and many other major contributors: Hegarty, IWilliams, Councell, Springmann, Hanratty, Hardy, Carlisle, and one year Hounshell. This is the class which with holdover veterans we have "ridden" so far [and if Tuitt and Niklas would have stayed, still would.]

2012 was our small class and to date our big disappointment. But we have not seen yet what they will become. To date they look suspiciously like the 2010 class. Russell, Day, Stanley, and the specialist Daly already start --- that is just fine for second years. Jones looks like he might start next year after finally waking up. Baratti if he was healthy or Shumate might well fill the safety spot now or soon. Okwara threatens to emerge. Brown seems at the edge of that too. Maybe Prosise. But this class is thin and loses depth.

2013 seems to have been another knockout fortunately. JSmith, Elmer, Redfield, Folston Luke, Rochell, Fuller{?} seem already ready to roll. Robinson, too. Maybe Onwualu. All those guys have contributed already. And the redshirt "bench" is loaded. Thank goodness Kelly has bracketed 2012 with two loaded classes.

So what does this say if anything about 2014? Of course one wants a full-boat of All-Americans, but you don't really need that. I look at the 2014 boat passengers and see a lot more 2013 and 2011 in them JUST AS THEY ARE, than I see 2012. I see four mountainous OLinemen, probably the best group in the nation. I see a great wideout. I see two fine TEs to keep "Tight End U" going. I a handful of high-potential DLinemen, and a linebacking corps led by an apparent superman. I see two very good DBacks.

On the 9 or 10 Junior/Senior starter standard, that's a lot folks. I'm pretty darned happy with this. "85" be dammed. {I get mocked for this, but we're "small" next year, and badly small if we'd max-out the signing.}
I agree with anything you have to say. About '14 : It is the fastest overall class in the Kelly era; the defensive line players almost to the T has a sky is limit potential; the potential is somewhat camouflaged by the development work that needs to be done.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:26 PM   #1041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike View Post
Please forgive the following ramble: speaking here of numbers and ultimate quality starting players.

About recruiting and the long term --- I stated my unpopular opinion that, given the unpredictability of actual college performance by recruited high schoolers, one COULD take the view [as a fan] that a recruiting class is a good class if it produces around 9-10 starters by Junior/Senior years [therefore you would have about 19 solid veterans on your 22+specialists starting roster] and several other contributing players [i.e. decent back-ups].

One COULD judge the success of the recruiting of a given year by seeing whether years produced that standard or not. This judgement would go for classes already juniors or seniors, but younger classes would have to undergo a more guesswork judgement.

The 2010 class was Coach'e first, and he did as well as one could expect. Nix, Lombard, Jones, Shembo, Collinsworth, Jackson, Rees, and Spond {8} ultimately started, and Schwenke became a sometimes starter. What the class didn't have was depth [understandably] with only guys like DSmith, Utupo, LWood, Hendrix, Moore, Welch. Still, not bad for a scramble.

2011 was a knockout despite the odd losses. Tuitt, Golson, Niklas, Grace, McDaniel, GAIII, Daniels, Farley, NMart, Koyack, Brindza, and many other major contributors: Hegarty, IWilliams, Councell, Springmann, Hanratty, Hardy, Carlisle, and one year Hounshell. This is the class which with holdover veterans we have "ridden" so far [and if Tuitt and Niklas would have stayed, still would.]

2012 was our small class and to date our big disappointment. But we have not seen yet what they will become. To date they look suspiciously like the 2010 class. Russell, Day, Stanley, and the specialist Daly already start --- that is just fine for second years. Jones looks like he might start next year after finally waking up. Baratti if he was healthy or Shumate might well fill the safety spot now or soon. Okwara threatens to emerge. Brown seems at the edge of that too. Maybe Prosise. But this class is thin and loses depth.

2013 seems to have been another knockout fortunately. JSmith, Elmer, Redfield, Folston Luke, Rochell, Fuller{?} seem already ready to roll. Robinson, too. Maybe Onwualu. All those guys have contributed already. And the redshirt "bench" is loaded. Thank goodness Kelly has bracketed 2012 with two loaded classes.

So what does this say if anything about 2014? Of course one wants a full-boat of All-Americans, but you don't really need that. I look at the 2014 boat passengers and see a lot more 2013 and 2011 in them JUST AS THEY ARE, than I see 2012. I see four mountainous OLinemen, probably the best group in the nation. I see a great wideout. I see two fine TEs to keep "Tight End U" going. I a handful of high-potential DLinemen, and a linebacking corps led by an apparent superman. I see two very good DBacks.

On the 9 or 10 Junior/Senior starter standard, that's a lot folks. I'm pretty darned happy with this. "85" be dammed. {I get mocked for this, but we're "small" next year, and badly small if we'd max-out the signing.}
Great post, OMM. Brings some interesting perspective to this class for those who are considering it a disappointment or underwhelming.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike View Post
Please forgive the following ramble: speaking here of numbers and ultimate quality starting players.

About recruiting and the long term --- I stated my unpopular opinion that, given the unpredictability of actual college performance by recruited high schoolers, one COULD take the view [as a fan] that a recruiting class is a good class if it produces around 9-10 starters by Junior/Senior years [therefore you would have about 19 solid veterans on your 22+specialists starting roster] and several other contributing players [i.e. decent back-ups].

One COULD judge the success of the recruiting of a given year by seeing whether years produced that standard or not. This judgement would go for classes already juniors or seniors, but younger classes would have to undergo a more guesswork judgement.

The 2010 class was Coach'e first, and he did as well as one could expect. Nix, Lombard, Jones, Shembo, Collinsworth, Jackson, Rees, and Spond {8} ultimately started, and Schwenke became a sometimes starter. What the class didn't have was depth [understandably] with only guys like DSmith, Utupo, LWood, Hendrix, Moore, Welch. Still, not bad for a scramble.

2011 was a knockout despite the odd losses. Tuitt, Golson, Niklas, Grace, McDaniel, GAIII, Daniels, Farley, NMart, Koyack, Brindza, and many other major contributors: Hegarty, IWilliams, Councell, Springmann, Hanratty, Hardy, Carlisle, and one year Hounshell. This is the class which with holdover veterans we have "ridden" so far [and if Tuitt and Niklas would have stayed, still would.]

2012 was our small class and to date our big disappointment. But we have not seen yet what they will become. To date they look suspiciously like the 2010 class. Russell, Day, Stanley, and the specialist Daly already start --- that is just fine for second years. Jones looks like he might start next year after finally waking up. Baratti if he was healthy or Shumate might well fill the safety spot now or soon. Okwara threatens to emerge. Brown seems at the edge of that too. Maybe Prosise. But this class is thin and loses depth.

2013 seems to have been another knockout fortunately. JSmith, Elmer, Redfield, Folston Luke, Rochell, Fuller{?} seem already ready to roll. Robinson, too. Maybe Onwualu. All those guys have contributed already. And the redshirt "bench" is loaded. Thank goodness Kelly has bracketed 2012 with two loaded classes.

So what does this say if anything about 2014? Of course one wants a full-boat of All-Americans, but you don't really need that. I look at the 2014 boat passengers and see a lot more 2013 and 2011 in them JUST AS THEY ARE, than I see 2012. I see four mountainous OLinemen, probably the best group in the nation. I see a great wideout. I see two fine TEs to keep "Tight End U" going. I a handful of high-potential DLinemen, and a linebacking corps led by an apparent superman. I see two very good DBacks.

On the 9 or 10 Junior/Senior starter standard, that's a lot folks. I'm pretty darned happy with this. "85" be dammed. {I get mocked for this, but we're "small" next year, and badly small if we'd max-out the signing.}
Great synopsis OMM. I think the key her is the coaching task that is ahead. We always talk about kelly's ability to coach his team up "look what he did at Cincy". If each of these guys reach their true potential and Kelly taps that potential...things will be great. I like the profile that we seemed to be going after this year...speed and motor. These are two things that are inate in my opinion. Coaching up with a good scheme can take care of everything else. Hat's off to the staff on a well fought recruiting battle. Now on to 2015...we need a lights out RB.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:32 PM   #1043
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Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post
This class is the most underrated class we've ever had since I've followed recruiting. You guys know I'm pessimistic, and I'm not just saying this to say it. There are practically no headcases in this class. Almost every single kid has the mindset you need to succeed here... there are hardly any that I look at and see the typical red flags.

Tremendous quality across the board, and a large amount of really undervalued guys. I believe Brent is going to be a star. I think Weishar, if he bulks up, could be absolutely ridiculous as a TE. Trumbetti is one hell of an athlete... he has 5 athleticism, but he's white playing DE so #Rivals3 Quenton Nelson might not have a "prototypical" OT build, but he is an unbelievable prospect. You know who else didn't have a prototypical OT build? Zach Martin. Yeah, I went there.

Needs? Got a top 5 ILB in Morgan + Martini + Sykes. Yeah, that's a home run. Interior DL? Really the only position I don't think we hit "great"... but we did address it pretty darn well if you consider Jay Hayes playing inside in a 4-3.

Anyways... just think this is a truly great class. A lot of underappreciated guys like Kolin Hill and Johnny Williams who have absurd upside. A lot of great mindset guys, not #BangBang. A lot of talent top to bottom. No gamebreaker Jabrill Peppers type guys... but it has everything else. And you can win a LOT of football games by having a tough, talented, focused football team without superstars (see: MSU, Stanford, KSU, etc. etc. etc.)
Agreed. To add on --- (and you know I never use dashes) ----- what appears to be happening is a metamorphosis in recruiting. We are loading up with guys with high ceilings. Guys to develop. If you can't recruit a hand, get a Williams or Blankenship and develop. I don't know that I think a Hand has that much higher a ceiling than a Blankenship, or a Williams. Load your roster, and take the time to develop the players, just like Stanford and MSU.

I heard three or four educated people that put Morgan as #2 inside (really). And Hayes, Mokwuah and Cage as a really good complementary group.
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