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Old 12-04-2019, 10:00 AM   #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishLax View Post
Some thoughts on that:
1. Having two top ten picks allows you to succeed in stuff that other players might not be able to do. Quenton Nelson, especially, was insanely good as a pulling guard.
2. I do believe there were differences in how the run game was coordinated in 2017 as in 2019. If you go watch what they did with Wimbush versus what they did this year it is not apples to apples. I don't remember 2017 well enough thought to get into specifics, maybe someone can help me out. But they definitely ran more QB draws and other designed runs for Wimbush, and the zone read was incredibly dangerous.
3. Even with the insane talent on the OL in 2017, really good teams like Georgia shut down the running game because they shot gaps and otherwise found ways to get penetration. There were a lot of negative plays and a lot of stuffs that should not happen that frequently with the talent they had. This is the same issue we saw rear its ugly head multiple times this year.
1. Also included are a drafted RB, and a RB who went undrafted but actually started a few NFL games, starting center was a senior who started for 3 years (iirc), and a right tackle who is currently a back up on NFL team after some serious knee injuries.

1a. Colts still use Q on pulling schemes like crazy. Dude is amazing.

2. Not only does Wimbush make a difference here, but when in doubt we just went power run game to the left and said someone beat our two future NFL starters.

3. Exactly, Shooting gaps is a direct result of the scheme's our OL are asked to do.

Further - As NDCrus has pointed out, even with some unbelievable talent, HH didn't quite have our oline performing at an overall top 10 level. See the chart posted before - there are some individual stats where they would rank in the top 10, but then have some metrics fall in the 80-130 range.

As there isnt any great way to come up with some sort of "final" grade of our oline. I took the rankings from the chart I put together earlier and came up with a final average ranking.

Using this, 2017 was our clear best year of oline play from 14-19, with an average ranking of 35.3. Next best two were 14 and 15 (42, 44 respectively). our 2016 oline that had all the same starters as 2017 and two guys who chose to come back from NFL performed at the 51st best level in football (our 2019 oline performed at the 50.5 level).

2018 was the clear outlier here at 77.9, the first year after losing two NFL first rounders and losing our starting LT early in season. 2019 oline played within 7 spots of HH's average oline from the period of 14-17 of 43.3.

Quinn returns every starter next year. If the oline performs around the 35th overall ranking then he will have almost identical two year progression as HH's oline with two first round OL (that Quinn doesnt have)
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:40 AM   #1542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDdomer2 View Post
1. Also included are a drafted RB, and a RB who went undrafted but actually started a few NFL games, starting center was a senior who started for 3 years (iirc), and a right tackle who is currently a back up on NFL team after some serious knee injuries.

1a. Colts still use Q on pulling schemes like crazy. Dude is amazing.

2. Not only does Wimbush make a difference here, but when in doubt we just went power run game to the left and said someone beat our two future NFL starters.

3. Exactly, Shooting gaps is a direct result of the scheme's our OL are asked to do.

Further - As NDCrus has pointed out, even with some unbelievable talent, HH didn't quite have our oline performing at an overall top 10 level. See the chart posted before - there are some individual stats where they would rank in the top 10, but then have some metrics fall in the 80-130 range.

As there isnt any great way to come up with some sort of "final" grade of our oline. I took the rankings from the chart I put together earlier and came up with a final average ranking.

Using this, 2017 was our clear best year of oline play from 14-19, with an average ranking of 35.3. Next best two were 14 and 15 (42, 44 respectively). our 2016 oline that had all the same starters and two guys who chose to come back from NFL performed at the 51st best level in football (our 2019 oline performed at the 50.5 level).

2018 was the clear outlier here at 77.9, the first year after losing two NFL first rounders and losing our starting LT early. 2019 oline played within 7 spots of HH's average oline from the period of 14-17 of 43.3.

He returns every starter next year. If the oline performs around the 35th overall ranking then he will have almost identical two year progression as HH's oline with two first round OL.
This is why I think him and Rees would make a good Co-OC tandem. He's in charge of the run game, Tommy's in charge of passing. Then we'll have apples to apples to know where the line is at. If you bring in "innovative" mind at OC, you are essentially starting over with an OL roster that wasn't recruited for what the new guy wants to do.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:51 AM   #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDCrusader View Post
This is why I think him and Rees would make a good Co-OC tandem. He's in charge of the run game, Tommy's in charge of passing. Then we'll have apples to apples to know where the line is at. If you bring in "innovative" mind at OC, you are essentially starting over with an OL roster that wasn't recruited for what the new guy wants to do.
Pass protection has been very good under Quinn and as it looks like the future of the offense isnt going to be so based on having a zone read QB, I think this plays well into the Quinn/Rees combo.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:53 AM   #1544
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I appreciate that they're pretty limited with the data available but the FO offensive line rankings are kind of pointless. They do not adjust for opponent; do not make any distinction between rushing plays of 8 vs. 80 yards; and do not make any distinction between QB runs and QB scrambles.

The system will systematically overrate downhill rushing teams with lead footed quarterbacks. A team with a scrambling QB who designs plays to run horizontally in the hope of hitting big plays will be systematically underrated.

It's build from an NFL rating system where running the football takes on a different role because there are fewer big plays at that level.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:23 PM   #1545
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:29 PM   #1546
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Go get him, keep Quinn on staff for OL recruiting. Best of both worlds.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:31 PM   #1547
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