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Old 07-10-2011, 09:01 PM   #8
GoldenIsThyFame
 
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I agree with all that has been said.

The only elite talent they have landed is Kalis.

We can start worrying about Michigan recruiting if they start winning Big 10 (11) Championships.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:01 PM   #9
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I think we've also got to realize that not only will the talent on the field get increasingly better over the next 2-3 years, but the coaching will too. Say what you want about Hoke's staff and the Ravens D, but it is so superior to Rodriguez's staff that is almost isn't funny.

The Michigan-Notre Dame game has been a game where the victor is overhyped only to fall flat on their face by the end of the season. That won't be the case in another year or two, this series is about to take a step up and return to the level of the other elite annual match ups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenIsThyFame View Post
I agree with all that has been said.

The only elite talent they have landed is Kalis.

We can start worrying about Michigan recruiting if they start winning Big 10 (11) Championships.
Fail.

Considering the Wolverines have won four of the last five, I'm worried regardless.

Last edited by Buster Bluth; 07-10-2011 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:16 PM   #10
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^ Coming out of the gate fast is right.

We really shouldn't be that surprised at what Hoke is doing to this point so far in the recruiting game. Whether you hate Michigan or not, it is a big (and easy) sell for a lot of kids.

And obviously with Mattison and the ability to sell playing right away, Michigan has been able to bring in some really good talent.

Two things to point out:

1.) This hot start does not really reflect Hoke as a coach. I know there are quite a few Michigan fans who want to believe this hot start means Hoke is the "real deal" but as we know with our recent experience, recruiting well doesn't necessarily mean you're a good or great coach.

Michigan should recruit at this level (and perhaps even better) on an annual basis.

2.) As some have already pointed out, how many of these kids are going to stick around through the new year? There will be defections at some point along the line.

And to what OMM is saying, their recruiting is very unbalanced and even the defensive players they have so far aren't THAT great. Like I said, Michigan should be recruiting this well, and they should be doing even better than this. When they start getting five or six truly elite players, including some playmakers at receiver and running back...then I think it's time to say wow.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:24 PM   #11
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Agree that this is mostly due to:

(a) Michigan being one of the nation's elite programs with the history and the facilities to prove it.
(b) having a big-time pro coordinator who is selling his NFL bona fides. See ND recruiting 2005-2007. If they win, great, if they lose, see ND recruiting 2008-2010.

UM and USC should be hauling in players ever year.

I also agree that this is one of those Weis-like classes that looks great on paper (star-ratings) but only has a few true sure things. Time will tell.

Last edited by Domina Nostra; 07-10-2011 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDOM View Post
I'm just curious to what his recruiting pitch is. I mean yeah it's Michigan and all but how much are they paying these players to commit to Michigan???? I just dont understand how they are getting all these players.

Hoke is an unproven coach so why would any of these kids want to play for him? I'm confused just as much as you are.
1. They can pitch the "We can get you into the NFL" card with Greg Mattison, who inherited an already loaded Ravens defense that actually slipped in every statistical ranking after his hiring.
2. Most of these kids are from Michigan or Ohio. It was probably their dream school from the start.
3. Hoke shows them tape from 2010 and says, "Look, our defense blows. You could probably start right away."


We have every reason to worry. As someone stated above, we've lost four of the last five. Two of them were utterly humiliating.

"We have better talent" doesn't work here. We've been the far better team the last two seasons and lost both games.

Fortunately, this great Michigan recruiting class will not be experienced players until 2014/2015, which is what Michigan fans overlook.

However, I trust in this staff.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:03 AM   #13
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I want to thank everyone for their views. I am still puzzled by Hoke's pattern, though. Sure I know as do we all that he's "recruiting to need", but you basically recruit for two or more years ahead, as they are not going to be there at all this year and just frosh the following.

So, take Michigan's Wide Receiver situation. They have a bunch of Rodriguez-studs up in the junior senior classes who will all be gone. Phil Steele thinks that their sophomores are pretty good. Let's say that there are five of them [that's how many he lists as good quality, even though they haven't proved it yet]. Now along comes the third season from now. These guys are more or less seniors, so maybe, if they ARE actually good, that's sort of OK, but you recruited NO WRs in either of the two classes behind them. How would WE feel at ND with say five passable receivers [if they stay healthy AND three of them turn out to be starter quality], and nothing else but freshmen? [Remember that the offense needs three of them at a time]. This is why I'm not sure that Hoke is REALLY getting who he wants --- but he's still willing to fill up the roster and Devil-take-the-hindmost. I can't imagine Kelly leaving holes like that.

And Hoke's RBs are similar --- two good sophs [they may actually BE good], but nothing obvious behind them and no new verbals. Once again: a couple seasons from now and you have two guys you're happy with and just frosh behind? Think how WE feel about Cierre and Jonas with only Cam behind; answer: nervous. The only thing that I see is that he's out there still recruiting hard in these areas but not getting results.

But the other thing that puzzles me a bit is that he had 116 guys on his roster, as far as I can tell. 97 spring plus 19 newbies coming now.) Yeh, walk-ons, I know; but I wonder how many scholarships he really has left?? 20 verbals already; 20 total last year. Would you as a coach just fill up your roster with "best player available" without thought for two years down the road?? He MUST NOT be doing this, but I still can't understand what he IS doing. That's why I made the thread; hoping someone could give some "inner wisdom" on what they actually have going on "over there". It's of interest to ND if they have a serious Achilles Heel as to their systemic planning.

Since the guys he's recruiting now can't help much for this season nor the next, AND if he's unbalancing his roster leaving offensive future holes, we might be getting set up for kicking butt for as long as they're still on the schedule.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:55 AM   #14
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It is odd how similar their past two recruiting classes are. After this season they will be absolutely loaded (depth wise) on the defensive side of the ball.

I believe they have 6 scholarships left in this class. Looking at they're depth chart for WRs I see only 2 sophs and the rest jrs and srs. Ideally you would want 2 or more WRs in this class, but I have an assumption.

While looking at SDSUs stats last year I noticed the 2 top WRs had 700+ more yards than the 3rd leading receiver. Based on those stats and his "pro style" offense he could typically go without WRs in this class and be okay with the current depth.

I'd assume Hoke and Mattison would be of the mindset that defense comes way before offense.. With that mindset he's doing what he thinks is necessary to dominate the Big10. Also, Rich Rod tried the opposite and failed miserably... Learn from you predecessors! (That's why Kelly is building the BEAST)

Hoke would be wise to pick up a playmaker or two with the 6 remaining scholarships in this class. All in all, they're not getting the athletes that ND is getting. Kelly will prove to be the better developer and coach.. and we will dominate!
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