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Old 01-30-2020, 12:24 PM   #414
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Depth at D line had been a glaring issue until maybe 2 years ago if u want to give us the benefit of the doubt. However, itís not like weíve been pumping out D linemen in the first couple rounds of the draft every year even before then. QB has been an issue since like Clausen. Who cares what Wimbush or PJ were ranked or the coulda shoulda beens we have had, we just arenít getting the ELITE guys at QB or D line and those are what the top teams are riding on to get them to the playoffs. I think that is what the guys were most likely pointing out and I agree that is definitely one formula for success. I think/hope that NDís recent recruiting adjustments and improvements will give us a different way of competing with the elite in the not too distant future.
The whole premise of the argument is about landing top-end talent. Wimbush and PJ were highly ranked because of their top-end talent. So their argument doesn't really add up. The main point here is that the points they are making aren't true in the current state of recruting. The last three recuriting cycles we have stacked talent on the d line. We have brought in highly ranked recruits. If anything, they should be pointing our lack of talent in the rb and wr room.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:35 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by NDMIA View Post
Pete Sampson on the II podcast mentioned that DE and CB were the two positions where coaches had the green light to oversign. They always want to bring in as many talented dudes to those position groups as possible. ND has 9 DEís for the 2020 roster which is perfect and super deep (4 4*ís out of 9 tho). For CB, theyíve got 7-8 guys for next season (I think one of the freshmen starts out at safety but idk who). Of those, Crawford, Rutherford, and Wallace are 4*ís. From a recruiting standpoint, I think QB is fine as long as they keep stacking 4*ís every cycle. Iíd like to see them get more realistic NFL 4*ís who have arm strength and are bigger. Their QB room this fall is tiny!!

RB recruiting has stabilized now to very good I believe with Lance Taylor and heís in competition for 4*ís which is important. TE and OL are not really an issue cause we have more recruited talent from a 247 composite standpoint than Clemson at those positions. WR is pretty dang good lately and I hope Del Alexander continues from Jordan Johnson/Xavier Watts 4-5*ís to Lorenzo Styles/Deon Colzie and further. DT recruiting is as good as it gets right now with 5 out of the last 6 DT commits being 4*ís and Gabriel Rubio will make it 6/7. LBer is where I just trust Clark Lea. Heís picked up 3 4*ís in the last 3 cycles and Iíd like to see how he does with a very important class this cycle. Safety is a concern with numbers but the high end talent mirrors that of a big time school with 4 4-5*ís in Houston Griffith, Isaiah Pryor, Litchfield Ajavon and Kyle Hamilton. The safety recruiting this past cycle was nothing short of disappointing. Lathan Ransom was disappointing to lose and the story to it doesnít sound good. Then there were a whole bunch of guys that were interested and made it to campus like Enzo Jennings, Jordan Morant, Ryan Watts, Makari Paige, RJ Moten, Malcolm Greene, and Christian Gonzalez but unfortunately for whatever reason, ND wasnít able to close the deal. Idk who that falls on and luckily ND has some really good safeties right now but it was a bad whiff for this class and hopefully 2021 can be better.
I don't think we should be including guys they stopped recruiting on lists of guys they couldn't close on. You can argue whether or not that was the right idea but they hadn't been in contact with Paige in forever. Stopped recruiting Gonzalez after his visit. And wanted Enzo to be more interested in S than CB, which he wasn't. Never heard closure on Moten but I believe he was a guy they were on the fence about so they wanted him to visit but weren't pushing for.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:37 PM   #416
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The whole premise of the argument is about landing top-end talent. Wimbush and PJ were highly ranked because of their top-end talent. So their argument doesn't really add up. The main point here is that the points they are making aren't true in the current state of recruting. The last three recuriting cycles we have stacked talent on the d line. We have brought in highly ranked recruits. If anything, they should be pointing our lack of talent in the rb and wr room.
They are comparing ND to the elite programs across the country, ie "What does ND need to do to get to the Bama, Clemson, Ohio St, LSU level and compete in the playoffs?"

The answer was recruit the DL and find an elite QB. Compare Bama and Clemson's last 3 cycles at DL to ND's. They each have 4 x 5* DL over a 3 year stretch and multiple other 4*s each. We have 0 x 5*s with a few 4*s. Our highest rated guys would be their 6-7th rated guys. This is a GLARING difference in the talent level across the DL. And to be fare, nobody else in the country is that close either. Also, the QB talk was about finding just ONE GUY that actually lives up to the hype. And Luginbill fairly points out he nor his recruiting service was too high on Jurkovec. But the point was finding what is keeping ND from that elite level.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:43 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by 317Irish View Post
Depth at D line had been a glaring issue until maybe 2 years ago if u want to give us the benefit of the doubt. However, itís not like weíve been pumping out D linemen in the first couple rounds of the draft every year even before then. QB has been an issue since like Clausen. Who cares what Wimbush or PJ were ranked or the coulda shoulda beens we have had, we just arenít getting the ELITE guys at QB or D line and those are what the top teams are riding on to get them to the playoffs. I think that is what the guys were most likely pointing out and I agree that is definitely one formula for success. I think/hope that NDís recent recruiting adjustments and improvements will give us a different way of competing with the elite in the not too distant future.
I donít agree with Luginbillís diagnosis. Our DL has been championship-caliber two years running and shows no signs of slowing down. Our problem is a lack of depth at CB and a lack of explosive playmakers at the skill positions. Both were exposed in nightmarish fashion against Clemson last year. Weíve taken steps to address the explosiveness issue, not so much the CB issue.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:55 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by InKellyWeTrust View Post
They are comparing ND to the elite programs across the country, ie "What does ND need to do to get to the Bama, Clemson, Ohio St, LSU level and compete in the playoffs?"

The answer was recruit the DL and find an elite QB. Compare Bama and Clemson's last 3 cycles at DL to ND's. They each have 4 x 5* DL over a 3 year stretch and multiple other 4*s each. We have 0 x 5*s with a few 4*s. Our highest rated guys would be their 6-7th rated guys. This is a GLARING difference in the talent level across the DL. And to be fare, nobody else in the country is that close either. Also, the QB talk was about finding just ONE GUY that actually lives up to the hype. And Luginbill fairly points out he nor his recruiting service was too high on Jurkovec. But the point was finding what is keeping ND from that elite level.
Was our d line the reason we didn't win a championship in 18 or 19? The answer to me is no. We have the talent at the d line position.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:06 PM   #419
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Was our d line the reason we didn't win a championship in 18 or 19? The answer to me is no. We have the talent at the d line position.
I agree with your point here. It wasn't dragging us down but it certainly wasn't dominant against top tier teams either. As opposed to QB or CB or WR or RB which definitely were weaknesses at points across those 2 years. QB is still almost singularly responsible for our level of success moving forward (ie being "good" vs being "great"), nothing groundbreaking here.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:18 PM   #420
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I don't think we should be including guys they stopped recruiting on lists of guys they couldn't close on. You can argue whether or not that was the right idea but they hadn't been in contact with Paige in forever. Stopped recruiting Gonzalez after his visit. And wanted Enzo to be more interested in S than CB, which he wasn't. Never heard closure on Moten but I believe he was a guy they were on the fence about so they wanted him to visit but weren't pushing for.
Apologies for not deciphering the whyís more.

.9381 4* Enzo Jennings
.9294 4* Jordan Morant
.9288 4* Lathan Ransom
.9250 4* Kristian Story
.9216 4* Chris Thompson Jr - OV cancelled
.9208 4* Ryan Watts
.9181 4* RJ Mickens
.9110 4* Makari Paige
.8958 4* Christian Gonzalez
.8958 4* Cameron Martinez

9 4* safeties made it to campus during the 2020 cycle. Thatís an incredible job alone by the staff and Terry Joseph. For a ton of different reasons, Enzo wanting to play CB, Story wanting to stay in Alabama, and dropping Gonzalez among a few of those reasons, ND didnít get a safety to commit during the 2020 cycle. The bottom line is if ND wishes actually to be in that top 5 class ranking they need some of these guys. Theyíre getting the hard part done which is getting lots of top end talent to come up to South Bend, IN which is difficult to do especially on an unofficial. Hopefully they can close on the guys they want. Last class it really seems like Lathan Ransom was the only guy they really desperately wanted out of the whole group above. Itís just disappointing to see Michigan end up with 3 4* safeties who all made it to NDís campus or were interested in ND.
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