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-   -   Charlie Weis Named 28th Irish Coach (https://www.irishenvy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1007)

NDLyght37 12-14-2004 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerosmith777
The difference is the X's and O's matter though, b/c recruits want to play in fun systems that prepare them for the NFL. Part of why Willingham was a miserable recruiter was b/c he couldn't sell his system as one the kids could put up big numbers in and get attention for the pros. Weis on the other hand is just coming off a career of developing pro talent, and his offense is known as one of the smartest in the game. There's no doubt he can sell that angle to recruits, in part b/c its absolutely true. I think NFL teams really are going to look at Notre Dame skill players a little closer for the first time in over a decade b/c they know who coached & developed them. If Tom Brady had had Weis to coach him for 4 years in college, maybe he would not have been a 6th round draft choice.

At least Wies has it easier than Ty in the sense that Willingham had to try to run a pro offense with option players. Wies is just upgrading to a better pro offense. Wies should be successful, and he may make me forget about Clements. ;)

TomFoolery 12-15-2004 01:06 PM

Well, frankly Weis WILL STRUGGLE probably moreso that Ty did- Why?? Because it is exceedingly difficult to implement a pro style attack into a college furthermore. In essence, the locals will also be far more patient with "one of their own", than they were with Willingham. Sad state of affairs indeed.....Hopefully Weis will win- but if/when he doesn't, will the "higher ups" ask for his head??

ND 1987 12-15-2004 01:56 PM

If Ty had a weakness, it is recruiting. Regarding the success at New England, before his name came up at ND, I never once heard Weiss mentioned as crucial to New England's success. Weis has always worked for guys like Belichek and the Tuna who run the show. Granted Belichek is a defensive guy, New England's offense is what it is because of personnel.

Also- regarding players not wanting to play for Ty because of the offense he ran, this is total BS. This never held back Lou Holtz. Also, Willingham was running the west coast offense. It doesn't get any more NFL than that.

I am more certain Ty will bring back Washington than Weis bringing back ND.

I can already hear it 3 years from now. Your geniuses will be saying, "who was the stupid AD who hired a coach with zero head coaching experience and who hasn't played football beyond the 8th grade level."

I remember when Gerry Faust beat LSU in his first game and Sports Illustrated only half jokingly said ND might never lose another game under Faust. They were right. They didn't lose one. They lost 25. Weiss is Gery Faust with a gastric bypass. Two years at ND and he will be eating through a straw.

Aerosmith777 12-15-2004 02:02 PM

Actually, Weis' offense is probably less complicated than Willingham's. Not all pro offenses are excedingly complicated, as some coaches (like Weis) believe in comprehensive offensive strategies that allow them to play to their own players' strengths. One of Willingham's downfalls was he never seemed to grasp his own team's strengths and weaknesses. He gave Ryan Grant too many carries when better options were available, he over-emphasized the passing game when Carlyle Holliday (an option quarterback, not a drop-back thrower) was his QB, and he never gave Brady Quinn a chance to showcase his skills b/c opposing defenses had their way w/ ND's offensive line when they were in the passing game b/c A. he didn't utilize his running game enough to keep the linebackers & safeties at bay and B. ND was playing from behind way too much as a result of poor pass defense (a result of poor recruiting on the part of willingham).

I really think Weis is going to be better off than Willingham was. He may not get 10 wins his first year the way Willingham did, but that was much more the product of a great defense Ty inherited than anything he did coaching the offense. Plus, and far more importantly, you won't see the substantial drop off in the Irish's play in Weis' 2nd andr 3rd seasons the way you did w/ Ty.

Aerosmith777 12-15-2004 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND 1987
If Ty had a weakness, it is recruiting. Regarding the success at New England, before his name came up at ND, I never once heard Weiss mentioned as crucial to New England's success. Weis has always worked for guys like Belichek and the Tuna who run the show. Granted Belichek is a defensive guy, New England's offense is what it is because of personnel.

Also- regarding players not wanting to play for Ty because of the offense he ran, this is total BS. This never held back Lou Holtz. Also, Willingham was running the west coast offense. It doesn't get any more NFL than that.

I am more certain Ty will bring back Washington than Weis bringing back ND.

I can already hear it 3 years from now. Your geniuses will be saying, "who was the stupid AD who hired a coach with zero head coaching experience and who hasn't played football beyond the 8th grade level."

I remember when Gerry Faust beat LSU in his first game and Sports Illustrated only half jokingly said ND might never lose another game under Faust. They were right. They didn't lose one. They lost 25. Weiss is Gery Faust with a gastric bypass. Two years at ND and he will be eating through a straw.

You have to understand that college football isn't the same game today that it was 8 years ago when Holtz left. Hell, it wasn't even the same game 8 years ago that it was in '88 when he won a title. Option offenses don't draw blue-chip athletes anymore. Not recievers, definately not QB's, and really not even runningback's who are afraid of that "They're numbers are just a product of the system" tag when they enter the draft. The reality is that while Ty was a west coast guy, you can still be a west coast guy and run an offense that's boring as hell. And that's what he did. It was complicated and boring, and didn't make young kids want to come to ND to play in it.

Also, you say New England's offense is what it is b/c of personel, but let me ask you, what personel is that exactly? Besides Correy Dillon, who just joined the team this year and was not around for their 2 superbowls, the Pat's don't have one true-blue NFL superstar talent. They have no big-play wider reciever, no superstar tight end, and a quarterback who wasn't drafted until the 6th round. Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is a good quarterback, no doubt. BUT he was extremely raw when he got drafted by the Pats (hence he lasted until the 6th round) and needed to be well coached, and you can't attribute that good coaching to Belichek, b/c as you said, he's a defensive guy. Also, even now, everyone knows that Brady does not exactly have a cannon for an arm. He's better than the other guy b/c he's smarter, not more physically gifted, and it takes a good coach to instill those kind of smarts in his players. As far as the rest of the Pats offense goes, they have some very nice players like Christian Fauria and David Givens (gotta love an Irish Alum) but no real stars. No guys who run a sub-4.4 40 or can catch anything you throw within 10 yards of them, like some other offenses (i.e. Colts, Vikings, Steelers, etc). They just get every last drop out of the talent they do have, and that's always a credit to the coach, in this case to Weis.

As far as the zero head coaching experience, well all I'll say to that is Bob Stoops, Phil Fulmer, and Lloyd Carr. All 3 had no head coaching experience when hired at their respective schools, all 3 lead their teams to national titles. & if Ty does "resurrect" Washington, I say more power to him. But the fact remains he couldn't do it at Notre Dame, and never would even if given more time. His team never made any positive strides on his side of the ball in 3 years (offense), the defense has horribly regressed thanks to his poor recruiting. Maybe Washington will be a better fit for him and he'll be able to recruit there a little easier b/c he'll enjoy being there more. I hope so, although I have my doubts. But I don't think you can knock hiring Weis. His upside is ridiculously higher than Willingham's was. He has the potential to be a national title winning coach, but w/ Willingham, you can look at his record both at South bend and Stanford and see that he is only a slightly above average coach that is not a guy who's going to lead a program to consistent top-10 status.

TomFoolery 12-15-2004 02:49 PM

I wholeheartedly concur! You have to give ANY coach ample time to implement their schemes. It is exceedingly difficult for any program nowadays to maintain an elitist status over 5-7 years. For every Auburn, Utah, Louisville, and Cal that exists- (one or two year wonders), you have the Florida State's, Florida's, and Nebraska's. Realism at some point, must set in. A conference alignment would bring a healthy balance to ND football.

Aerosmith777 12-15-2004 02:54 PM

yeah, i'm one of those traditionalists who never wants to see ND join a conference, but even I'll admit, if this doesn't work out under Weis, their next move should be to join the Big 10 before they try changing coaches again


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