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  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.
    At one time (& probably still the case), 3B was the least represented position in the HOF. That makes for a tough standard for any 3B to compete against. I will not dismiss Rolen as his era post-Phillies is one I checked out of for a time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.
    Ortizís case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didnít necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

    On October 2, 2016 at a press conference at Fenway Park, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said it was "entirely possible" Ortiz did not test positive during the MLB survey drug testing in 2003. The commissioner stated that the alleged failed test should not harm Ortiz's legacy, and that there were "legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives". Manfred added "Those particular tests were inconclusive because "it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program."[98] He also said "Ortiz has never been a positive at any point under our program" since MLB began testing in 2004 and that it is unfair for Hall of Fame voters to consider "leaks, rumors, innuendo and non-confirmed positive test results" when assessing a player.[99]

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

    Iím torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schillingís last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next yearís ballot.

    Ortiz probably wonít (& shouldnít) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I donít think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans donít bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

    ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

    I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.
    Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

    I’m torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schilling’s last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next year’s ballot.

    Ortiz probably won’t (& shouldn’t) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I don’t think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans don’t bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

    ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

    I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.
    I agree with the first part.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.
    Thatís surely a possibility but he signed w/ Auburn as a TE at his HS in GA. Today he definitely looks like an OT.

    Leave a comment:


  • zelezo vlk
    replied
    Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.
    Sir Charles?

    Leave a comment:


  • BobbyMac
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Thomas couldíve easily been an NFL TE.
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.
    Thomas couldíve easily been an NFL TE.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wild Bill
    replied
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Agreed on Clemens. When he got to Toronto looked like a completely different person. Duquette was an idiot too btw.

    Juice or not Bonds was really fun to watch hit in SF. There for awhile it seemed like every strike he saw ended up in the ocean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    Just about everyone was on the juice in the 90s and 2000s minus maybe Griffey Jr. Chicks dig the long ball, so the MLB looked the other way. Hell, half my college team were on the juice which kind of pissed me off competing for at bats. Iíd use to drop off ďthe packageĒ from our catcher in Fort Wayne to one of my U of Anderson buddies I played summer ball with...he went on to play centerfield for Team USA in slow pitch softball. Probably gained about 50 lbs of straight muscle too. Miken actually still makes a softball bat in his name.

    I do think that Bonds and Clemens should be HofFers though because they cemented that legacy prior to getting huge. And bc the MLB looked the other way for so long. Had they not have done that then I might feel a little differently.
    It wasnít illegal period. Iím not condoning it but I think itís impossible to weed out every user. We know there are likely users in the HOF already.

    Agreed with you on Bonds & Clemens. With Bonds, he was a great all-around player. He could do it all w/ a possible exception of his arm which wasnít the strongest. That said, I saw him having a Clemente or even Aaron type of career before he buffed up to Herculean size.

    If I had to bet when Clemens started it wouldíve been when Boston decided not to re-sign him. I think the GM Duquette even criticized him for being past his prime. This had to motivate Clemens b/c he reeled off two phenomenal seasons w/ the Blue Jays and continued to dominate through the end of his career. Maybe it was all about getting past injuries & staying healthy but he never seemed to stop using.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    One of my roommates got on it over Xmas break our senior year (6 weeks about) and came back about 30 lbs heavier and just ripped. He wasnít going to see much PT until he juiced up and ended being our starting catcher by the end of the year.

    On a side note, he was from Cincy and had Tommy John the year before too and rehabbed with then Reds closer Scott Williamson at the Reds complex. He said that Griffey Jr was lazy as shit. He wouldnít even touch a weight let alone juice.
    LOL. Thatís great. I love Griffey but I always maintained that he was so gifted that he was able to get by on pure athleticism as until he hit his 30s. Once he got older, all those collisions w/ walls start to add up & if he wasnít staying fit in the training room, it probably cost him those last 4-5 years where he really struggled to be the Griffey of old...much less healthy for 162 games.

    I remember hearing stories about Griffey & Pete Rose, Jr going to HS together and competing on who could drive the coolest sports car. I believe they went to Moeller High. I also recall Griffey recounting a time when Bonds visited him at his house in Ď98 when the McGwire/Sosa HR race was captivating America. Griffey said the tv was on and the broadcast was really hyping the race. It was at that moment that Bonds said something to the effect of, ďokay, if thatís what they want...its onĒ. I wish I could remember where that Griffey interview is so I could link it but thatís what I remembered most.

    No way Griffey juiced.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    One of my roommates got on it over Xmas break our senior year (6 weeks about) and came back about 30 lbs heavier and just ripped. He wasn’t going to see much PT until he juiced up and ended being our starting catcher by the end of the year.

    On a side note, he was from Cincy and had Tommy John the year before too and rehabbed with then Reds closer Scott Williamson at the Reds complex. He said that Griffey Jr was lazy as shit. He wouldn’t even touch a weight let alone juice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Just about everyone was on the juice in the 90s and 2000s minus maybe Griffey Jr. Chicks dig the long ball, so the MLB looked the other way. Hell, half my college team were on the juice which kind of pissed me off competing for at bats. I’d use to drop off “the package” from our catcher in Fort Wayne to one of my U of Anderson buddies I played summer ball with...he went on to play centerfield for Team USA in slow pitch softball. Probably gained about 50 lbs of straight muscle too. Miken actually still makes a softball bat in his name.

    I do think that Bonds and Clemens should be HofFers though because they cemented that legacy prior to getting huge. And bc the MLB looked the other way for so long. Had they not have done that then I might feel a little differently.
    Last edited by Irish2155; 01-23-2021, 05:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    With the loss of Hank Aaron, I mentioned on the RIP thread he was joining his younger brother Tommie in heaven. Tommie was a light hitting 1B w/ the Braves in the late 60s but pretty much a role player. Think of Chris Gwynn to Tony Gwynn as far as careers of brothers.

    I flippantly included Ozzie Canseco who had a cup of coffee in the Majors but was not impressive other than being an identical twin to Jose. I think his career started as a pitcher TBH.

    Anyways Ozzie & Jose being twins was always my basis that steroids/PEDs don’t equal major league success as both Ozzie & Jose ingested their fair share of PEDs. One was a superstar & the other was an afterthought.

    Then I listened to a great Malcolm Gladwell podcast where he documented Andy Pettitte’s case of PED use. If you recall Andy’s case he stated that the time(s) he used PED was during stints on the DL to speed up his recovery so he could get back in the rotation and “help my team”. The positive tests & documentation backed this up according to Gladwell.

    Gladwell then posited this question: “If PEDs to aid/hasten recovery are frowned upon, why isn’t UCL (Tommy John) surgery in injury situations?” Both treatments/procedure were used to get pitchers back to the game after injury.

    Thought it was good food for thought so would love to hear everyone’s opinion on the matter. Yes, I realize that not all players accused or proven to have used PEDs used them during rehab assignments or DL stints. So assume for the sake of argument we are just talking about Pettitte’s situation since his was documented as have only used while injured.
    Last edited by Irishize; 01-23-2021, 04:36 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...d-chicago-cubs

    My God. WTF is wrong with people?

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Merch sales would be crazy I'd assume, right?

    Maybe Monarchs then, the KC Monarch of the Negro League. They were a top club.

    Spiders would be cool, though. That's gotta be it. Richmond won't care. LOL
    Spiders is so obvious. I think they already have logos and mock ups.

    Monarchs is a good call. No other major pro sports team has that yet itís a pretty benign yet respectable name.

    Iím not going to lie, when I was a kid growing up in the late 70s i thought the red tops with the crooked letters spelling Indians & the hat w/ the crooked ĎCí was hideous. Fast forward to today & they are fire when it comes to retro throwback. I remember big ole Boog Powell & Frank Robinson wearing the red tops w/ red bottoms....vomit inducing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post
    would they dare go double buckeyes on ohio?
    Merch sales would be crazy I'd assume, right?

    Maybe Monarchs then, the KC Monarch of the Negro League. They were a top club.

    Spiders would be cool, though. That's gotta be it. Richmond won't care. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • NDdomer2
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Cleveland:

    1. Spiders
    2. Buckeyes (Negro League team in Cleveland back in the day)
    3. Blue Sox
    would they dare go double buckeyes on ohio?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Cleveland:

    1. Spiders
    2. Buckeyes (Negro League team in Cleveland back in the day)
    3. Blue Sox

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Spiders
    YES!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Bone Thugs

    Leave a comment:


  • ab2cmiller
    replied
    Armpits

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishnuke
    replied
    Originally posted by Legacy View Post
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox
    Benders

    Leave a comment:


  • ab2cmiller
    replied
    Cleveland River Fires

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Legacy View Post
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox
    Spiders

    Leave a comment:


  • Legacy
    replied
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Probably a done deal after MLB-PA talks. You know the MLBPA is Ďall iní b/c thatís more job creation for them. Should be a win-win for all involved...owners, players & fans.
    I don't care to see pitchers at the plate. It isn't at the top of my baseball or sports consumption agenda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Do it. Well past time.
    Probably a done deal after MLB-PA talks. You know the MLBPA is Ďall iní b/c thatís more job creation for them. Should be a win-win for all involved...owners, players & fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Do it. Well past time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    From Buster Olney:

    Re: The universal DH:
    1. NL teams have been told to work under the assumption they will have no DH next season.
    2. Almost everyone you talk to at the team level assumes there WILL be a universal DH in 2021, after MLB-PA talks.
    3. The lack of clarity is affecting early bidding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    One third of non tendered players were right handed relievers.
    Lots of former first rounders non tendered as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    One third of non tendered players were right handed relievers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied


    The KBO World Series trophy is significantly cooler than any trophy in North American sports. By a long shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • philipm31
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kim-ng-b...-two-ceilings/

    Great Fangraphs piece on Kim Ng.

    There is some mess to clean up but some good pieces to work with in the farm system. Someone with her amount of experience working for the White Sox, Yankees and Dodgers should be an interesting fit with a club like the Marlins.
    That is exciting news, imo. Her experience will definitely be a plus imo, especially in a situation lilke MIA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kim-ng-b...-two-ceilings/

    Great Fangraphs piece on Kim Ng.

    There is some mess to clean up but some good pieces to work with in the farm system. Someone with her amount of experience working for the White Sox, Yankees and Dodgers should be an interesting fit with a club like the Marlins.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishnuke View Post
    Where is Theo going to get enough money to buy a team? He's rich, but he makes just a bit more than the average MLB player.
    I assume he'd be the head of a group. He has a net worth of $25M according to the Google Machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishnuke
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Coolest scenario I've seen so far is Theo is interested in becoming an owner and Jerry Reinsdorf is said to maybe want another one or two years as chairman of the White Sox and then he's calling it quits.

    You can connect the rest of the dots.
    Where is Theo going to get enough money to buy a team? He's rich, but he makes just a bit more than the average MLB player.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Coolest scenario I've seen so far is Theo is interested in becoming an owner and Jerry Reinsdorf is said to maybe want another one or two years as chairman of the White Sox and then he's calling it quits.

    You can connect the rest of the dots.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    2015-2020 was the most successful period of Cubs baseball since the 1930s, if not ever.

    Getting Dexter Fowler back in 2016 was a huge stroke of luck for them. He had the best year of his career and they won a World Series.

    Some trades and free agent money didn't work out for him, but overall, what he's done with Boston and Chicago seals the deal on Cooperstown for him. He can really do whatever he wants.
    The ex and I flew out to Boston one year for her company's Xmas party. That just so happened to be the same year Indy was hosting the baseball winter meetings. On the flight out I was sitting in the seat over right behind Theo and, as a BoSox fan, digesting his laptop/big board of free agents and seeing how he had everyone ranked was like one of the coolest things ever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishnuke
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    2015-2020 was the most successful period of Cubs baseball since the 1930s, if not ever.

    Getting Dexter Fowler back in 2016 was a huge stroke of luck for them. He had the best year of his career and they won a World Series.

    Some trades and free agent money didn't work out for him, but overall, what he's done with Boston and Chicago seals the deal on Cooperstown for him. He can really do whatever he wants.
    Absolutely. I would never trade 2016 for anything but it does sting to see what we've traded away over the years, some of it for very little return.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Nice. Off the top of my head, I’ve been to the following (nowhere near your 22):

    Dodger Stadium
    Wrigley Field
    Citi Field
    Turner Field
    Busch Stadium
    Ballpark at Arlington
    Kaufman Stadium
    Camden Yards
    Petco

    PNC is beautiful. I’ve just driven by it & seen it on TV. Hope to visit soon.
    Do a night game in summer. You will not regret it. For my money, the best park in baseball. Really cool area around the park too with bars, restaurants, shops. Just a neat experience.

    PNC
    Fenway
    Wrigley
    Dodger
    Angel
    Oakland Coliseum
    Kaufman
    Skydome
    Tropicana
    White Sox
    Camden
    Progressive
    Coors
    Chase
    Comerica
    Minute Maid
    Oracle
    Miller
    Great American
    Busch
    Target
    Nationals

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    2015-2020 was the most successful period of Cubs baseball since the 1930s, if not ever.

    Getting Dexter Fowler back in 2016 was a huge stroke of luck for them. He had the best year of his career and they won a World Series.

    Some trades and free agent money didn't work out for him, but overall, what he's done with Boston and Chicago seals the deal on Cooperstown for him. He can really do whatever he wants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishnuke
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Theo Epstein has resigned as president of baseball operations for the Chicago Cubs. Jed Hoyer is the new president of baseball operations.
    He doesn't want to be the guy that has to trade Kris Bryant. Eternally grateful for what he did for the Cubs regardless of what the current roster looks like.

    Leave a comment:


  • rtrn2glory
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Theo Epstein has resigned as president of baseball operations for the Chicago Cubs. Jed Hoyer is the new president of baseball operations.
    if he's not a first ballot HOF'er there's no such thing. Broke two curses in a span of 15 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Feels like about 300 years.

    I have been to 22 of the current ballparks and PNC is easily my favorite. SF Giants is a good second, though.
    Nice. Off the top of my head, Iíve been to the following (nowhere near your 22):

    Dodger Stadium
    Wrigley Field
    Citi Field
    Turner Field
    Busch Stadium
    Ballpark at Arlington
    Kaufman Stadium
    Camden Yards
    Petco

    PNC is beautiful. Iíve just driven by it & seen it on TV. Hope to visit soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Theo Epstein has resigned as president of baseball operations for the Chicago Cubs. Jed Hoyer is the new president of baseball operations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    How long you been a Pirate fan Rogue?

    I visited Pitt for the first time a little less than a year ago. Really loved the city...especially the stadiums...beautiful.
    Feels like about 300 years.

    I have been to 22 of the current ballparks and PNC is easily my favorite. SF Giants is a good second, though.

    Leave a comment:

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