The boys of summer! (Baseball Thread)

[Irish2155]

Agreed on Clemens. When he got to Toronto looked like a completely different person. Duquette was an idiot too btw.

Juice or not Bonds was really fun to watch hit in SF. There for awhile it seemed like every strike he saw ended up in the ocean.

[Wild Bill]

My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.

[Irishize]

My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.

Thomas could’ve easily been an NFL TE.

[BobbyMac]

Thomas could’ve easily been an NFL TE.

TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.

[zelezo vlk]

TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.

Sir Charles?

[Irishize]

TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.

That’s surely a possibility but he signed w/ Auburn as a TE at his HS in GA. Today he definitely looks like an OT.

[Rogue219]

My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.

I agree with the first part.

[Rogue219]

I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.

[Irishize]

I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.

Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

I’m torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schilling’s last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next year’s ballot.

Ortiz probably won’t (& shouldn’t) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I don’t think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans don’t bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through

[Rogue219]

Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

I’m torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schilling’s last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next year’s ballot.

Ortiz probably won’t (& shouldn’t) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I don’t think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans don’t bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through

Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

[Irishize]

Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

Ortiz’s case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didn’t necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

On October 2, 2016 at a press conference at Fenway Park, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said it was "entirely possible" Ortiz did not test positive during the MLB survey drug testing in 2003. The commissioner stated that the alleged failed test should not harm Ortiz's legacy, and that there were "legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives". Manfred added "Those particular tests were inconclusive because "it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program."[98] He also said "Ortiz has never been a positive at any point under our program" since MLB began testing in 2004 and that it is unfair for Hall of Fame voters to consider "leaks, rumors, innuendo and non-confirmed positive test results" when assessing a player.[99]

[Irishize]

Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

At one time (& probably still the case), 3B was the least represented position in the HOF. That makes for a tough standard for any 3B to compete against. I will not dismiss Rolen as his era post-Phillies is one I checked out of for a time.

[Rogue219]

Ortiz’s case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didn’t necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

That speaks for itself.

[Irish2155]

A lot of folks don’t like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

In their primes I’d take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and that’s saying a lot. I might take Becket when he’s on his game over both but he wasn’t as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and he’ll finish what he started.

[Irishize]

I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

That speaks for itself.

Oh, I agree 100%. I don’t know anyone who is a Manfred guy. Sosa was a light hitting OF before he donned a Cubs uni. He never did anything that stood out w/ the Rangers or ChiSox. Palmeiro seemed to be steady but his power wasn’t apparent early on.

To me Bonds & Clemens are no-brainers.

[NorthDakota]

Tell Bonds he can get in if he gives up his records. Hank and Roger deserve to be recognized.

[Irishize]

A lot of folks don’t like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

In their primes I’d take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and that’s saying a lot. I might take Becket when he’s on his game over both but he wasn’t as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and he’ll finish what he started.

Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.

[Irish2155]

Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.

Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.

[Irishize]

Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.

Definitely. He was a money pitcher. That’s a compliment. Once he got established in the Majors (post Baltimore & Houston) as a regular rotation guy, he was a vital cog that helped his team to the World Series for each team.

[zelezo vlk]

And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it

[Rack Em]

And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

[Irish2155]

Got me thinking on an uneventful Saturday...

Who are the best 1/2s ever? Schilling is at least on 2 of the top 10 and probably top 5. Off the top of my head...

- Johnson/Schillig
- Koufax/Drysdale (so I’ve been told)
- Pedro/Schilling (again)

Y’all can fill in the rest. But anyway it’s diced, Schilling was dominate.

[zelezo vlk]

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.



But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

I hear that some has been deferred too. I'm happy with the trade.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

[Dale]

I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

Eh put it a different way. We’re getting Arenado at the same price as Jays got Springer if the 50 million part is correct. That’s a younger and better player than the best FA available at the same price. The Goldy trade is already made so you can’t waste his years. If you wait till the better 2022 class, god willing baseball is back to normal and you’d be in a bidding war and pay a weaker player more money more then likely or get nothing.

Credit to DeWitt, he gets called cheap at every turn yet as traded for 2 of the biggest deals in MLB (Stanton and Arenado)

[Irish2155]

Bauer signing with LA is ridiculous. They’re trying to fork cash like the Yankees and I hope SD takes them down.

In the meantime, Boston needs anyone who can touch 90. All and any applications welcome.

[Irishize]

Bauer signing with LA is ridiculous. They’re trying to fork cash like the Yankees and I hope SD takes them down.

In the meantime, Boston needs anyone who can touch 90. All and any applications welcome.

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

Go Padres

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should have the best Wild Card race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

FIFY. Dodgers are going to make a joke of the league this year.

[Irish2155]

I love it!

Buehler
Kershaw
Urias
Bauer
Gonsolin
Price
May

NL West should be the best race in MLB if it plays out like it seems to on paper. Hate the game, don’t hate the player.

When you stack Aces on top of Aces like that we’re getting into the ATL 90s staff. But the above is better

[Irishize]

Go Padres

Go Rays

[Irishize]

FIFY. Dodgers are going to make a joke of the league this year.

Nothing is guaranteed. Yankees proved in the 80s that throwing money at a roster guarantees nothing. You still have to throw money at the right guys as well as avoid trading away your young future stars in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Speaking of Bauer, look at the D’backs. They traded both Max Scherzer & Bauer away for basically nothing. That’s got zero to do with money and everything to do w/ talent evaluation and long-term investment. Some teams spend wisely. Some teams spend like Lotto winners & they’re broke w/in a decade.

[Rogue219]

Go Rays

If Cash leaves Snell in, they might win three championships in the city of Tampa, and they don't have an NBA team.

[irishff1014]

I heard a few things about the O’s that makes you wonder if they are staying in Baltimore. The lease they have at Camden Yards was up so they signed a new 2 year lease. That just seems odd. But with the 100 million the owners owe the Nationals due to the disaster with the masn network.

[Rogue219]

How happy is the White Sox chairman that they traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields?

And how pissed is he that the Padres gave Tatis that contract when MLB owners are crying they have money constraints?

And how much are the Braves happy they signed Acuna for the deal they did?

[irishff1014]

How happy is the White Sox chairman that they traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields?

And how pissed is he that the Padres gave Tatis that contract when MLB owners are crying they have money constraints?

And how much are the Braves happy they signed Acuna for the deal they did?

Good for the Padres though to lock him up early. The White Sox’s screwed up.

The Braves were early and are getting a steal.

[Rogue219]

Good for the Padres though to lock him up early. The White Sox’s screwed up.

The Braves were early and are getting a steal.

James Shields was crap when they got him.

Acuna was a fool to sign that deal.

[irishff1014]

James Shields was crap when they got him.

Acuna was a fool to sign that deal.

Acuna is a aggressive player. He very well could have injuried himself and cost himself money.

[Rogue219]

Acuna is a aggressive player. He very well could have injuried himself and cost himself money.

Look, I can understand wanting to secure your long term future, but even if I am looking at it from that point of view that deal was steal staggeringly stupid. He's probably never going to make what his actual value is going to be. This isn't football or hockey. The risk of serious injury to non pitchers is pretty low, so however aggressive he might be, he screwed himself out of a lot of money signing the deal he did.

The White Sox gave Eloy Jimenez $43 million dollars before he ever played a day in the Majors and Acuna signed the deal he did? Stupid. Only a GM and owner would look at that and think it was a good idea.

[tussin]

We're back boys. Go Yanks.

[GowerND11]

Welp... We shall see how the young core does this year for the M's. Need to see progress and growth. Unfortunately, it also means we will see Seager get traded this summer. Though some bullpen and/or rotation help would be massively needed for the expected push in the coming years.

[Rogue219]

Covid takes it's first game as Mets and Nats are off. Buccos lead the Cubs early.

Predictions:

AL East: Yankees 98 wins
AL Central: Twins 90 wins
AL West: Astros 90 wins
Wild Cards: Jays 87 wins, Angels 86 wins

NL East: Mets, 92 wins
NL Central: Brewers, 85 wins
NL West: Dodgers, 101 wins
Wild Cards: Padres 95 wins, Braves 86 wins

[Irishize]

I love Kershaw but he’s passed his prime as far as getting to say when he starts & how long he stays in...IMO. I’ assuming he gets his say anyways...I could be wrong. He should be the #3 guy in the rotation based on effectiveness. He didn’t pitch horrible but his fastball is not effective as shown today when the Rockies got most of their hits w/ two strikes. The defense did him no favors today & neither did the bats but he should of left in the sixth after LA tied the game. He didn’t & promptly blew the lead.

[Irishize]

Covid takes it's first game as Mets and Nats are off. Buccos lead the Cubs early.

Predictions:

AL East: Yankees 98 wins
AL Central: Twins 90 wins
AL West: Astros 90 wins
Wild Cards: Jays 87 wins, Angels 86 wins

NL East: Mets, 92 wins
NL Central: Brewers, 85 wins
NL West: Dodgers, 101 wins
Wild Cards: Padres 95 wins, Braves 86 wins

The Twins will win the World Series. That’s my hot take.

[mango4]

The Twins will win the World Series. That’s my hot take.

The Twins suck*



*I’m very pissed off at the way they lost today. That shouldn’t have happened.

[Irishize]

The Twins suck*



*I’m very pissed off at the way they lost today. That shouldn’t have happened.

Not a good sign when Donaldson goes down w/ injury in game one. He’ll be one of those “what if” guys b/c he can’t stay healthy.

I like their roster makeup. But as mentioned above, injuries matter. Hopefully, Donaldson can bounce back & Buxton needs to stay healthy. I have a rooting interest in that an old teammate from my youth league days is the Twins pitching coach.

[BobbyMac]

How happy is the White Sox chairman that they traded Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields?

And how pissed is he that the Padres gave Tatis that contract when MLB owners are crying they have money constraints?

And how much are the Braves happy they signed Acuna for the deal they did?

That was the Chairman's last, 'Win now' attempt which as a life long Sox fan I've appreciated BUT if that trade and the Cubs recent success blowing it up gets us to today. The sacrifice was worth it.

Now, if they could've kept him and Anderson or gotten appropriate compensation for Tatis, yeah sure, that would have been the cherry on top.

We'll win a WS or three in spite / because of this too. I mean We survived the Bonilla trade after all!

[Irishize]

For fun...Think of this as the Irish Envy Veterans Committee who can vote in legends to the HOF who you feel were overlooked in their original eligibility. Choose as many as 5. Who would get your vote...if any?

Ken Boyer
Dick Allen
Gil Hodges
Jim Kaat
Vada Pinson
Tony Oliva
Dave Parker
Dave Concepcion
Dale Murphy
Steve Garvey
Thurman Munson
Bill Freehan
Tommy John
Minnie Minoso
Maury Wills
Luis Tiant

[IrishLion]

Nick Castellanos got suspended two games for flexing on a pitcher that plunked him...

The pitcher got no reprimand, and Yadi got an 'undisclosed' fine.

I wish I could say I was surprised!

[Irish#1]

For fun...Think of this as the Irish Envy Veterans Committee who can vote in legends to the HOF who you feel were overlooked in their original eligibility. Choose as many as 5. Who would get your vote...if any?

Ken Boyer
Dick Allen
Gil Hodges
Jim Kaat
Vada Pinson
Tony Oliva
Dave Parker
Dave Concepcion
Dale Murphy
Steve Garvey
Thurman Munson
Bill Freehan
Tommy John
Minnie Minoso
Maury Wills
Luis Tiant

Tony Oliva
Thurman Munson
Dale Murphey
Steve Garvey
Ken Boyer or Maury Wills

[Rogue219]

That was the Chairman's last, 'Win now' attempt which as a life long Sox fan I've appreciated BUT if that trade and the Cubs recent success blowing it up gets us to today. The sacrifice was worth it.

Now, if they could've kept him and Anderson or gotten appropriate compensation for Tatis, yeah sure, that would have been the cherry on top.

We'll win a WS or three in spite / because of this too. I mean We survived the Bonilla trade after all!

James Shields was garbage before they got him. They were had, but I don't think that move was made by the current GM. I think that move was made by Mr. Williams and it was therefore his last. Things started changing for them later that July and every move since hasn't looked like any Williams moves.

Tatis at short with Moncada at third and Anderson at second? They're closer with that than they already are.

Last night the White Sox finally didn't allow an unearned run. That's progress. Truthfully, they'll win plenty of games handing that pen leads. Just wasn't their weekend. Angels look pretty good.