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The boys of summer! (Baseball Thread)

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  • Irish2155
    replied
    Bauer signing with LA is ridiculous. They’re trying to fork cash like the Yankees and I hope SD takes them down.

    In the meantime, Boston needs anyone who can touch 90. All and any applications welcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dale
    replied
    Originally posted by Rack Em View Post
    Iím very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. Thatís a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now theyíre going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

    But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.
    Eh put it a different way. Weíre getting Arenado at the same price as Jays got Springer if the 50 million part is correct. Thatís a younger and better player than the best FA available at the same price. The Goldy trade is already made so you canít waste his years. If you wait till the better 2022 class, god willing baseball is back to normal and youíd be in a bidding war and pay a weaker player more money more then likely or get nothing.

    Credit to DeWitt, he gets called cheap at every turn yet as traded for 2 of the biggest deals in MLB (Stanton and Arenado)

    Leave a comment:


  • zelezo vlk
    replied
    Originally posted by Rack Em View Post
    I’m very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. That’s a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now they’re going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.



    But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.
    I hear that some has been deferred too. I'm happy with the trade.

    Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Got me thinking on an uneventful Saturday...

    Who are the best 1/2s ever? Schilling is at least on 2 of the top 10 and probably top 5. Off the top of my head...

    - Johnson/Schillig
    - Koufax/Drysdale (so I’ve been told)
    - Pedro/Schilling (again)

    Y’all can fill in the rest. But anyway it’s diced, Schilling was dominate.
    Last edited by Irish2155; 01-30-2021, 03:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rack Em
    replied
    Originally posted by zelezo vlk View Post
    And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it
    Iím very torn about this trade. Arenado is going on 30, has $199 million left on his contract, and is reportedly getting another year at $15 mil tacked on to the end. Thatís a lot of money for someone at that point in the aging curve. 4 years from now theyíre going to have a lot of money tied up in Goldy and Arenado. Plus they need to find money to extend Flaherty. That could be a $200 mil contract easily.

    But the Cardinals are basically giving up nothing in terms of prospects and are getting $50 mil to offset the contract.

    Leave a comment:


  • zelezo vlk
    replied
    And the Cardinals get Nolan Arenado, very nice. Only a year after I predicted it

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.
    Definitely. He was a money pitcher. Thatís a compliment. Once he got established in the Majors (post Baltimore & Houston) as a regular rotation guy, he was a vital cog that helped his team to the World Series for each team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.
    Schilling reminds me of one of the best big game pitchers ever. Many, many greats...only a select few have dominated pitched their teams to championships and Schilling did it more than once.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    A lot of folks donít like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

    If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

    In their primes Iíd take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and thatís saying a lot. I might take Becket when heís on his game over both but he wasnít as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and heíll finish what he started.
    Schilling reminded me of the starters from the 70s & 80s that were just workhorses: Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, etc. Some got by on finesse & some by power. Schilling was definitely power but he got the job done.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorthDakota
    replied
    Tell Bonds he can get in if he gives up his records. Hank and Roger deserve to be recognized.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

    That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

    This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

    That speaks for itself.
    Oh, I agree 100%. I donít know anyone who is a Manfred guy. Sosa was a light hitting OF before he donned a Cubs uni. He never did anything that stood out w/ the Rangers or ChiSox. Palmeiro seemed to be steady but his power wasnít apparent early on.

    To me Bonds & Clemens are no-brainers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    A lot of folks don’t like Schilling for many reasons but his dominance on the bump is undebateable, post season especially!!!

    If Jack Morris is a HofFer then Curt Schilling is a no brained IMO.

    In their primes I’d take Schilling in a must win game over Pedro, and that’s saying a lot. I might take Becket when he’s on his game over both but he wasn’t as consistent. . Pedro, as great as he was, was only good for 7 or 8. Give Schilling the ball and he’ll finish what he started.
    Last edited by Irish2155; 01-29-2021, 04:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Ortiz’s case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didn’t necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:
    I am not a steroid moralist. I'd have voted for all those guys to go in if I had a ballot. I'm also not a Manfred guy.

    That said, Ortiz fails the eyeball and stats test when it comes to his career arc. It's pretty improbable and while it doesn't mean he used, he is far beyond benefit of the doubt but seems to get a pass compared to some of these other guys who have been cast out. Bonds and A Rod never failed a public drug test either, and that's an argument everyone seems to cling to in these discussions.

    This is the greatest back end of his career hitter of all time. He's not an outlier. His numbers are unprecedented when it comes to 500 HR career guys/HOF players. The three names on the list who follow him: Palmeiro, Bonds, and Sosa.

    That speaks for itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.
    At one time (& probably still the case), 3B was the least represented position in the HOF. That makes for a tough standard for any 3B to compete against. I will not dismiss Rolen as his era post-Phillies is one I checked out of for a time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.
    Ortizís case has a lot of inconsistencies b/c it was a list compiled by federal investigators that was released anonymously. Afterward, both the MLBPA & MLB came out in defense of Ortiz saying any name on that list didnít necessarily test positive for PEDs. Manfred said:

    On October 2, 2016 at a press conference at Fenway Park, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said it was "entirely possible" Ortiz did not test positive during the MLB survey drug testing in 2003. The commissioner stated that the alleged failed test should not harm Ortiz's legacy, and that there were "legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives". Manfred added "Those particular tests were inconclusive because "it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program."[98] He also said "Ortiz has never been a positive at any point under our program" since MLB began testing in 2004 and that it is unfair for Hall of Fame voters to consider "leaks, rumors, innuendo and non-confirmed positive test results" when assessing a player.[99]

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

    Iím torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schillingís last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next yearís ballot.

    Ortiz probably wonít (& shouldnít) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I donít think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans donít bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through
    Ortiz tested positive in 2003. He seems to get a free pass because of likability and his "clutch" moments.

    Helton comps to Bagwell and Edgar Martinez. They're both in. I think he goes eventually, and should.

    Rolen is a tougher case, but he's right there as far as numbers. No comps other than Ron Santo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

    ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

    I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.
    Ought to be interesting but will likely end in an anti-climatic fashion.

    I’m torn on Rolen & Helton but to be fair to them that was a tough era to really stand out. I believe Schilling’s last year on the ballot was this season as he requested to be removed from next year’s ballot.

    Ortiz probably won’t (& shouldn’t) go in 1st ballot but I bet he gets in before ARod, Clemens & Bonds simply b/c he was more media friendly. Granted, I don’t think there was compelling evidence that he used PEDs like there was against the other 3 mentioned. I do think the perception is he used but avg fans don’t bother to look at the evidence. Just a bonkers era to sift through

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    I have always felt individual MLB awards and the HOF were not really worth my time in getting bent out of shape about, but next year's HOF ballot is going to be high drama.

    ARod, Ortiz, Clemens, Bonds along with Curt Schilling. It's like watching a hurricane awaiting to hit land.

    I guess if I wanted to see someone get in I'd go with Scott Rolen and Todd Helton.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.
    I agree with the first part.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.
    Thatís surely a possibility but he signed w/ Auburn as a TE at his HS in GA. Today he definitely looks like an OT.

    Leave a comment:


  • zelezo vlk
    replied
    Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.
    Sir Charles?

    Leave a comment:


  • BobbyMac
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Thomas couldíve easily been an NFL TE.
    TE? Him and Barkley could've been NFL OT's.

    Barkley would've been physically the greatest OT in history. He was literally built in a lab to play LT in the NFL in 2050.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.
    Thomas couldíve easily been an NFL TE.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wild Bill
    replied
    My guess is Frank Thomas was clean and he probably regrets it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Agreed on Clemens. When he got to Toronto looked like a completely different person. Duquette was an idiot too btw.

    Juice or not Bonds was really fun to watch hit in SF. There for awhile it seemed like every strike he saw ended up in the ocean.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    Just about everyone was on the juice in the 90s and 2000s minus maybe Griffey Jr. Chicks dig the long ball, so the MLB looked the other way. Hell, half my college team were on the juice which kind of pissed me off competing for at bats. Iíd use to drop off ďthe packageĒ from our catcher in Fort Wayne to one of my U of Anderson buddies I played summer ball with...he went on to play centerfield for Team USA in slow pitch softball. Probably gained about 50 lbs of straight muscle too. Miken actually still makes a softball bat in his name.

    I do think that Bonds and Clemens should be HofFers though because they cemented that legacy prior to getting huge. And bc the MLB looked the other way for so long. Had they not have done that then I might feel a little differently.
    It wasnít illegal period. Iím not condoning it but I think itís impossible to weed out every user. We know there are likely users in the HOF already.

    Agreed with you on Bonds & Clemens. With Bonds, he was a great all-around player. He could do it all w/ a possible exception of his arm which wasnít the strongest. That said, I saw him having a Clemente or even Aaron type of career before he buffed up to Herculean size.

    If I had to bet when Clemens started it wouldíve been when Boston decided not to re-sign him. I think the GM Duquette even criticized him for being past his prime. This had to motivate Clemens b/c he reeled off two phenomenal seasons w/ the Blue Jays and continued to dominate through the end of his career. Maybe it was all about getting past injuries & staying healthy but he never seemed to stop using.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post
    One of my roommates got on it over Xmas break our senior year (6 weeks about) and came back about 30 lbs heavier and just ripped. He wasnít going to see much PT until he juiced up and ended being our starting catcher by the end of the year.

    On a side note, he was from Cincy and had Tommy John the year before too and rehabbed with then Reds closer Scott Williamson at the Reds complex. He said that Griffey Jr was lazy as shit. He wouldnít even touch a weight let alone juice.
    LOL. Thatís great. I love Griffey but I always maintained that he was so gifted that he was able to get by on pure athleticism as until he hit his 30s. Once he got older, all those collisions w/ walls start to add up & if he wasnít staying fit in the training room, it probably cost him those last 4-5 years where he really struggled to be the Griffey of old...much less healthy for 162 games.

    I remember hearing stories about Griffey & Pete Rose, Jr going to HS together and competing on who could drive the coolest sports car. I believe they went to Moeller High. I also recall Griffey recounting a time when Bonds visited him at his house in Ď98 when the McGwire/Sosa HR race was captivating America. Griffey said the tv was on and the broadcast was really hyping the race. It was at that moment that Bonds said something to the effect of, ďokay, if thatís what they want...its onĒ. I wish I could remember where that Griffey interview is so I could link it but thatís what I remembered most.

    No way Griffey juiced.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    One of my roommates got on it over Xmas break our senior year (6 weeks about) and came back about 30 lbs heavier and just ripped. He wasn’t going to see much PT until he juiced up and ended being our starting catcher by the end of the year.

    On a side note, he was from Cincy and had Tommy John the year before too and rehabbed with then Reds closer Scott Williamson at the Reds complex. He said that Griffey Jr was lazy as shit. He wouldn’t even touch a weight let alone juice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Just about everyone was on the juice in the 90s and 2000s minus maybe Griffey Jr. Chicks dig the long ball, so the MLB looked the other way. Hell, half my college team were on the juice which kind of pissed me off competing for at bats. I’d use to drop off “the package” from our catcher in Fort Wayne to one of my U of Anderson buddies I played summer ball with...he went on to play centerfield for Team USA in slow pitch softball. Probably gained about 50 lbs of straight muscle too. Miken actually still makes a softball bat in his name.

    I do think that Bonds and Clemens should be HofFers though because they cemented that legacy prior to getting huge. And bc the MLB looked the other way for so long. Had they not have done that then I might feel a little differently.
    Last edited by Irish2155; 01-23-2021, 05:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    With the loss of Hank Aaron, I mentioned on the RIP thread he was joining his younger brother Tommie in heaven. Tommie was a light hitting 1B w/ the Braves in the late 60s but pretty much a role player. Think of Chris Gwynn to Tony Gwynn as far as careers of brothers.

    I flippantly included Ozzie Canseco who had a cup of coffee in the Majors but was not impressive other than being an identical twin to Jose. I think his career started as a pitcher TBH.

    Anyways Ozzie & Jose being twins was always my basis that steroids/PEDs don’t equal major league success as both Ozzie & Jose ingested their fair share of PEDs. One was a superstar & the other was an afterthought.

    Then I listened to a great Malcolm Gladwell podcast where he documented Andy Pettitte’s case of PED use. If you recall Andy’s case he stated that the time(s) he used PED was during stints on the DL to speed up his recovery so he could get back in the rotation and “help my team”. The positive tests & documentation backed this up according to Gladwell.

    Gladwell then posited this question: “If PEDs to aid/hasten recovery are frowned upon, why isn’t UCL (Tommy John) surgery in injury situations?” Both treatments/procedure were used to get pitchers back to the game after injury.

    Thought it was good food for thought so would love to hear everyone’s opinion on the matter. Yes, I realize that not all players accused or proven to have used PEDs used them during rehab assignments or DL stints. So assume for the sake of argument we are just talking about Pettitte’s situation since his was documented as have only used while injured.
    Last edited by Irishize; 01-23-2021, 04:36 PM.

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  • Rogue219
    replied
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...d-chicago-cubs

    My God. WTF is wrong with people?

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Merch sales would be crazy I'd assume, right?

    Maybe Monarchs then, the KC Monarch of the Negro League. They were a top club.

    Spiders would be cool, though. That's gotta be it. Richmond won't care. LOL
    Spiders is so obvious. I think they already have logos and mock ups.

    Monarchs is a good call. No other major pro sports team has that yet itís a pretty benign yet respectable name.

    Iím not going to lie, when I was a kid growing up in the late 70s i thought the red tops with the crooked letters spelling Indians & the hat w/ the crooked ĎCí was hideous. Fast forward to today & they are fire when it comes to retro throwback. I remember big ole Boog Powell & Frank Robinson wearing the red tops w/ red bottoms....vomit inducing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post
    would they dare go double buckeyes on ohio?
    Merch sales would be crazy I'd assume, right?

    Maybe Monarchs then, the KC Monarch of the Negro League. They were a top club.

    Spiders would be cool, though. That's gotta be it. Richmond won't care. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • NDdomer2
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Cleveland:

    1. Spiders
    2. Buckeyes (Negro League team in Cleveland back in the day)
    3. Blue Sox
    would they dare go double buckeyes on ohio?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Cleveland:

    1. Spiders
    2. Buckeyes (Negro League team in Cleveland back in the day)
    3. Blue Sox

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Spiders
    YES!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Irish2155
    replied
    Bone Thugs

    Leave a comment:


  • ab2cmiller
    replied
    Armpits

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishnuke
    replied
    Originally posted by Legacy View Post
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox
    Benders

    Leave a comment:


  • ab2cmiller
    replied
    Cleveland River Fires

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Legacy View Post
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox
    Spiders

    Leave a comment:


  • Legacy
    replied
    What to nickname the Cleveland baseball team now....

    Flying Fellers
    Battered Bastards
    Rockers
    Flaming Cuyahogans
    Black Sox

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Originally posted by Irishize View Post
    Probably a done deal after MLB-PA talks. You know the MLBPA is Ďall iní b/c thatís more job creation for them. Should be a win-win for all involved...owners, players & fans.
    I don't care to see pitchers at the plate. It isn't at the top of my baseball or sports consumption agenda.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    Do it. Well past time.
    Probably a done deal after MLB-PA talks. You know the MLBPA is Ďall iní b/c thatís more job creation for them. Should be a win-win for all involved...owners, players & fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    Do it. Well past time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    From Buster Olney:

    Re: The universal DH:
    1. NL teams have been told to work under the assumption they will have no DH next season.
    2. Almost everyone you talk to at the team level assumes there WILL be a universal DH in 2021, after MLB-PA talks.
    3. The lack of clarity is affecting early bidding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishize
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    One third of non tendered players were right handed relievers.
    Lots of former first rounders non tendered as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied
    One third of non tendered players were right handed relievers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rogue219
    replied


    The KBO World Series trophy is significantly cooler than any trophy in North American sports. By a long shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • philipm31
    replied
    Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kim-ng-b...-two-ceilings/

    Great Fangraphs piece on Kim Ng.

    There is some mess to clean up but some good pieces to work with in the farm system. Someone with her amount of experience working for the White Sox, Yankees and Dodgers should be an interesting fit with a club like the Marlins.
    That is exciting news, imo. Her experience will definitely be a plus imo, especially in a situation lilke MIA.

    Leave a comment:

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